Red Shirt Leader Jatuporn To Reveal 'Solid Evidence' Of Abhisit's UK Citizenship

[rubl]

Wheres the individual accusing the reds of assault. Again you post <deleted> . Condems the violence against journalists. Thai indoctrinated media staff . Give me a link to one journalist alledging assault. If not shut up

Interesting that you cannot accept a general accusation like from Channel-3 personel who were almost torched by red-shirts angry at the channels news.

Since you put such very strict requirements to any link to be provided, the following you will probably not find acceptable either.

"Chandler Vandergrift, a documentary-maker in his 20s working in Bangkok, suffered shrapnel injuries to his head, legs and arms after a grenade exploded less than 70 metres from him, said freelance photographer Nick Nostitz.

...

Nostitz, a German photographer who witnessed the grenade attack that wounded Vandergrift, said it was thrown by a radical faction of the antigovernment "red shirt" protesters.

Nostitz believed it was not aimed at the journalists but rather at army officers standing nearby, he said."

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/Young+Canadian+filmmaker+wounded+grenade+Thailand/3047990/story.html?id=3047990

Anyway, back to the OP "Thailand led by British oppressor"

Edited February 19, 2011 by rubl

[truethailand]

Wheres the individual accusing the reds of assault. Again you post <deleted> . Condems the violence against journalists. Thai indoctrinated media staff . Give me a link to one journalist alledging assault. If not shut up

Interesting that you cannot accept a general accusation like from Channel-3 personel who were almost torched by red-shirts angry at the channels news.

Since you put such very strict requirements to any link to be provided, the following you will probably not find acceptable either.

"Chandler Vandergrift, a documentary-maker in his 20s working in Bangkok, suffered shrapnel injuries to his head, legs and arms after a grenade exploded less than 70 metres from him, said freelance photographer Nick Nostitz.

...

Nostitz, a German photographer who witnessed the grenade attack that wounded Vandergrift, said it was thrown by a radical faction of the antigovernment "red shirt" protesters.

Nostitz believed it was not aimed at the journalists but rather at army officers standing nearby, he said."

http://www.canada.co...html?id=3047990

Anyway, back to the OP "Thailand led by British oppressor"

As I said intentionally... you said it not aimed at the foreign journalist

[MrsExpat2B]

Evidence aside, I'm thinking in terms of possibility. Many Thais, hiso or not, given half a chance, would grab an opportunity to go and give birth in the US just so their children acquire US citizenship, giving them a choice later in their lives in case they would like to start a new life in the US. We are talking about 40+ years ago when PM Abhisit was born. Thailand was much less developed that it is now. Imagine yourself as a Thai working in the UK in the time when birth in the country was sufficient to get your child a British citizenship. Unless you are a diplomat, would you miss this opportunity? Of course there is still a possibility that my assumption is totally wrong and Mr Abhisit only holds Thai nationality but we will see. Mr Abhisit will need to come up with a lot more than, "I don't have a British passport" though (e.g. a proof that he has renounced his British citizenship, or that his parents were indeed diplomats in the UK) as a passport isn't a requirement for someone to hold that nationality but the other way round is.

In regards to whether Thailand allows dual citizenship, I'm not an expert but as far as I am aware, the law doesn't prohibit a Thai holding other nationalities as long as the other country(ies) involved grant its citizenship to that Thai person. Though if one day I am asked to choose, I know which one I would give up. Probably wouldn't happen any time soon though as long as the person at the very top is still holding a US citizenship...... but then TIT and there are different sets of rules for different sets of people.

[Buchholz]

Hang on a moment .... And NEVER to forget(any pro dems members here) those EIGHT civilians who were hidden in the TEMPLE, thinking there will be safe, probably thinking no one NORMAL and REAL Budhist would kill them there.

Eight INNOCENT civilians

- reduced -

Hospital Occupation... Snipers there by agreement with the hospital authorities. Emergency evacuation

- reduced -

Got another two for you here to comment on, 473geo

.

Obviously Abhisit stopped by the temple, and the hospital, on his way to the ministry for checking nationality and citizenship..............

oh and just for you.......he passed a photo of Thaksin on the way.........

oh, ok... your earlier pointedly worded post was nothing but just a joke I mistook it for a genuine concern for people making off-topic comments

quote name='473geo'

And the relevance to the citizenship of Abhisit?

unquote.

but it just a chance to make a personal dig at someone... I get it now.

[473geo]

oh, ok... your earlier pointedly worded post was nothing but just a joke I mistook it for a genuine concern for people making off-topic comments

quote name='473geo'

And the relevance to the citizenship of Abhisit?

unquote.

but it just a chance to make a personal dig at someone... I get it now.

No joke.....you and many other 'political' posters frequently drag topics into the tit for tat arena in which you can repeatedly throw in your biased assumptions, take topics off course, and as another poster has already stated, bring the topic around to your own agenda. As you have done now by adding yet another off topic post to the list. My following flippant remark was a vain attempt to let the matter drop and not again drag the topic into your personal agenda.....unfortunately....you continue to support my observation.......

Edited February 19, 2011 by 473geo

[khunsiam]

Being born in another country allows you the right to CHOOSE at age 18 which country you will be citizen of, it is not automatically bestowed for life, nor is it permanent, but only for the time you are a minor person. At Age 18 you get the choice, clearly Abhisit chose Thailand.

And several countries do not allow dual citizenship Thailand being one of them. So there is no chance Abhisit could have gotten registered to run as an MP without showing a proper Thailand ID or Passport, and then be elected as an MP, if he did not have Thai citizenship in full.

Prior to that you can't be indescriminately thrown out of the country you were born in.

"And several countries do not allow dual citizenship Thailand being one of them."

Why do so many people in Thailand have dual citizenship then?

They don't legally. But TIT, people just do what they want.

The US used to allow dual citizenship in certain cases. I have a friend born to USA military personell on a USA Airbase in France in the late 60's. before DeGaule kicked out NATO. She has valid for life USA and French Nationality, but it is no longer available, and she is 'grandfathered' in for life. They

The US does allow dual citizenship and there was actually a US Supreme Court ruling on this. Unless as you say that has changed.

According to the many threads her on TV Thailand doesn't seem to have any clear laws stating it is permissible or is not. However, I just did a quick internet search and found a page that lists each countries view on Dual Citizenship and see they claim this for Thailand ...

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED.

Exceptions:

Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain.

A Thai woman who marries a foreign national and acquires her husband's citizenship has technically lost her Thai citizenship. Should the marriage end in death or divorce, the Thai national woman could regain her Thai citizenship. This is an unofficial dual citizenship designed to protect female Thai nationals.

Right, but...these women do still buy land in Thailand while they have technically lost their citizenship and live in a foreign country!?

[tw25rw]

Does that mean he's also 10 points down on the maturity development index?

I transferred from US school system to the British school system when I was mid-teens. Sorry to say, it felt like I was stuck with a group of 10 year olds.

Lol I'm Australian so no offense taken we love teasing the Brits but I'd rather take a coloring book to school than a 'gat'.

Plus your not even on subject? Hmm... Maybe you have a point about the education you received in the UK.

Sorry Brits but his blatant ignorance and stupidity makes a fairly good point.

Stay on point next time ye?

I agree with Brahmburgers. I went from Sydney to London aged 9 and in doing so went from being an average school kid to being virtually a deputy teacher as I was so far ahead. Obviously I wasn't at Eton, unlike Abhisit...

[Emptyset]

Interesting that you cannot accept a general accusation like from Channel-3 personel who were almost torched by red-shirts angry at the channels news.

I was told by a red sympathizer that they'd torched Channel 3 because Channel 3 supposedly had clear footage of snipers shooting red shirts, but refused to show it, or hand it over to reds. So it might've been because of that rather than the coverage itself. If they were particularly angry at the coverage, surely they should've gone for NBT or ASTV first? Either way, no excuse!

Although it should be remembered that the vast majority of red shirts weren't involved in the arson. All of the ones I know personally are committed to peaceful change and found the arson deplorable.

[diehard60]

Jatuporn, he will volunteer to be put in jail too

:clap2:

Kind of one sided aren't we? But its alright for the yellow shirts to do it again. And maybe they will hit the airports again too!!!!!!

[tw25rw]

Although it should be remembered that the vast majority of red shirts weren't involved in the arson. All of the ones I know personally are committed to peaceful change and found the arson deplorable.

They'd be better off ditching the red shirt movement and any Thaksin associations altogether and forming a 'clean' reformist party.

[barka]

Does that mean he's also 10 points down on the maturity development index?

I transferred from US school system to the British school system when I was mid-teens. Sorry to say, it felt like I was stuck with a group of 10 year olds.

Mid teens I had left school in the UK and joined the Fleet Air Arm, perhaps you were with 10 year olds and nobody told you?

Hope neither of you met up with the PM,when he went to school in NEWCASTLE,playing in the play ground with a load of GOERDY kids..you would never be able to understand them....Canny lad..howay the lads..if you survived growing up in Necastle you can survive most things..

[elshaheen]

Didn't some people try to accuse Pres. Oboma of being Muslim and not a U.S. citizen born in the U.S.?

Next think you'll hear is, "PM Abbhisit is an alien from the Coneheads planet."

I think Thai should make a Thai comedy show with Jatuporn as their host.

[Robby nz]

Was wondering about Amsterdam getting a copy of the PM's birth cert.

Isnt a birth cert a personal legal document?

And couldnt anyone with a copy do all sort of crime in your name?

Seem to remember in the dim distant past having lost my UK birth cert and attempting to get a replacement.

Was asked to jump through all sort of hoops to provide proof of who I was.

Didnt go through with it in the end because I found the origonal.

Anyone know if it is that easy to get a copy of anyones birth cert?

And while I am at it did Jatuporn show a copy or just say Amsterdam had it.

After all he has bennknown to tell the odd fib in the past.

[whybother]

Wheres the individual accusing the reds of assault. Again you post <deleted> . Condems the violence against journalists. Thai indoctrinated media staff . Give me a link to one journalist alledging assault. If not shut up

Oh ... sorry ... I was looking for reports from foreign sources.

I didn't realise is was OK for the red shirts to attack Thai journalists.

[dfp]

It is now Sunday morning and I cannot find any news about the "solid evidence".

[craigt3365]

Several inflammatory posts including replies have been deleted. One warning given, please keep it civil!!!

[NanLaew]

Does that mean he's also 10 points down on the maturity development index?

I transferred from US school system to the British school system when I was mid-teens. Sorry to say, it felt like I was stuck with a group of 10 year olds.

Relevance?

[siampolee]

What might make an interesting read would be the authenticity of Jatuporn's degree.

It did take rather a long time for him to actually complete his bachelors degree, and it would be interesting to see how much of the work was,''his own '' ( Jutaporn that is).

One is led to wonder when listening to and reading the inane comments that Jutaporn makes whether he actually progressed beyond the M.3 level of education.

Edited February 20, 2011 by siampolee

[MarvinBemand]

Who really cares about Abhisit's status, he is the Prime Minister, so follow him until the next election.

Democracy is managed by the vote,... NOT by 100 or 1,000 people protesting eating som tum and waving sticks in the air.. LOL

If you dont agree with an outcome of an election, then change it, AT THE BALLOT BOX! That is democracy...!

Thailand needs to UNITE, instead of the infighting.

The red shirts would be better served trying to conciliate with other parties, instead of bringing Thailand into disrepute. YET AGAIN!

By the way, maybe the reds cant appreciate intelligence, but having a PM who was educated at Eton in UK, amazing to have such an intelligent PM. Well Done Mr Abhisit, keep up the great work !

Edited February 20, 2011 by MarvinBemand

[timekeeper]

Although it should be remembered that the vast majority of red shirts weren't involved in the arson. All of the ones I know personally are committed to peaceful change and found the arson deplorable.

They'd be better off ditching the red shirt movement and any Thaksin associations altogether and forming a 'clean' reformist party.

no Thaksin = no money = no red shirts

[animatic]

If there was a valid citizenship issue to remove Abhisit with he would not have become PM or even an MP. That they try to pull a 'Birther' scam on him tied to the lame-ass ICC filing of that damed hamster on Thaksin's moneied treadmill, is just more of the same; clutching at straws to keep in the press and keep some vague appearance of relevance. That Jatuporn will run with it like it's a giant revelation is just SOP for the noxious, fat prawn/pawn of Thaksin's making. So... it's the day after, wheres the beef? What is this BIg PROOF.

[timekeeper]

What might make an interesting read would be the authenticity of Jatuporn's degree.

It did take rather a long time for him to actually complete his bachelors degree, and it would be interesting to see how much of the work was,''his own '' ( Jutaporn that is).

One is led to wonder when listening to and reading the inane comments that Jutaporn makes whether he actually progressed beyond the M.3 level of education.

Jatuporn? a Degree ? Khao San Road springs immediately to mind................

[rubl]

Wheres the individual accusing the reds of assault. Again you post <deleted> . Condems the violence against journalists. Thai indoctrinated media staff . Give me a link to one journalist alledging assault. If not shut up

Interesting that you cannot accept a general accusation like from Channel-3 personel who were almost torched by red-shirts angry at the channels news.

Since you put such very strict requirements to any link to be provided, the following you will probably not find acceptable either.

"Chandler Vandergrift, a documentary-maker in his 20s working in Bangkok, suffered shrapnel injuries to his head, legs and arms after a grenade exploded less than 70 metres from him, said freelance photographer Nick Nostitz.

...

Nostitz, a German photographer who witnessed the grenade attack that wounded Vandergrift, said it was thrown by a radical faction of the antigovernment "red shirt" protesters.

Nostitz believed it was not aimed at the journalists but rather at army officers standing nearby, he said."

http://www.canada.co...html?id=3047990

Anyway, back to the OP "Thailand led by British oppressor"

As I said intentionally... you said it not aimed at the foreign journalist

Correct, it seems vanderGrift was at the wrong place at the wrong time, like some other foreign journalists and reporters. The staff of Channel-3 were in their office when red-shirts tried to torch it. BP staff was evacuated just in case.

Anyway, what do you try to prove by asking for the name of a single foreign journalist who was deliberately targeted by red-shirts? Don't Thai count in your opinion? You're sidetracking.

Back to the OP 'Thailand ruled by British oppressor'

[Buchholz]

oh, ok... your earlier pointedly worded post was nothing but just a joke I mistook it for a genuine concern for people making off-topic comments

quote name='473geo'

And the relevance to the citizenship of Abhisit?

unquote.

but it just a chance to make a personal dig at someone... I get it now.

No joke.....you and many other 'political' posters frequently drag topics into the tit for tat arena in which you can repeatedly throw in your biased assumptions, take topics off course, and as another poster has already stated, bring the topic around to your own agenda. As you have done now by adding yet another off topic post to the list. My following flippant remark was a vain attempt to let the matter drop and not again drag the topic into your personal agenda.....unfortunately....you continue to support my observation.......

And by your only selecting my posts for your perceived off-topic nature, show your own agenda.

There have been far greater number of off-topic posts on this thread by others, yet you focus only on mine, which is the point I was making and by your subsequent posts supports that observation.

[nicknostitz]

http://www.asiaone.c...519-217109.html

Red-shirt demonstrators are reportedly so paranoid that journalists might set them up to say they are being forced to stay at the rally site that they attacked a female Thai reporter for France 24 television channel while she was interviewing a woman inside the Pathum Wanaram Temple yesterday afternoon. The reporter was also representing Irrawaddy newspaper.

I was at this incident. This was indeed caused to some part by extreme paranoia, but also by a mistake of the France 24 team the Thai reporter was working as a fixer for, pressuring her asking the wrong questions leading the protesters to believe that they accused them of not being allowed out of the temple by the Red Shirt leadership. It was a misunderstanding that could have ended much worse than it did. She was then protected by guards, led out of the temple to the stage area, and then escorted out of the protest area by guards and journalists (including me).

The saddest part of the incident is that this particular journalist has actually strong personal sympathies for the Red Shirts. She has been afterwards at Red Shirt protests, and nothing untoward happened to her at all.

The last days of Ratchaprasong were crazy, and protesters were extremely emotional - understandable after all the death and the madness of the battles. Also the failure to report accurately by state controlled TV stations was part cause of such attacks, such as not showing dead or injured protesters, or not srceening footage of soldiers shooting at protesters - footage that was shown in international TV stations. Until today state controlled stations have not reported on dead or injured Red Shirts.

Nevertheless, there were no organized attacks against journalists. The attacks that happened were out of the heat of the moment, which happens in all such situations. There were incidents that were caused by individual leaders, but other leaders apologized to us straight away.

The military was also not exactly innocent of attacking journalists - i have seen on three occasions journalists being shot by soldiers, the first two were on Wireless Road opposite Lumpini Police station (Nelson Rand and a Matichon Photographer), and on the 15th the Nation hotographer opposite the Road from where i was holed up in the Shell gas station. I was shot at as well, while running away (wearing the journalists arm band), but fortunately was not hit.

During the dispersal on the 19th, i was picked out by a soldier from a group of us journalists - both Thai and Farang, he accused me of being a "Red Shirt journalist", photographed me and my press card, and threatened me when i protested against his behavior.

Today, at every Red Shirt rally you can see Thai journalists working unhindered. Only ASTV journalists have to be careful (and usually wear only generic press cards without ASTV on it), and to a lesser extent journalists from the state controlled Channel 11 (who are though all the time present, and often known individually by protesters, and accepted).

[rubl]

Jatuporn, he will volunteer to be put in jail too

:clap2:

Kind of one sided aren't we? But its alright for the yellow shirts to do it again. And maybe they will hit the airports again too!!!!!!

Pray tell, what is the relation between 'Jatuporn ... in jail too' and 'yellow shirts to do it again' ? Will yellow-shirts storm the prison to 'release our leaders' ?

[rubl]

I was at this incident. This was indeed caused to some part by extreme paranoia, but also by a mistake of the France 24 team the Thai reporter was working as a fixer for, pressuring her asking the wrong questions leading the protesters to believe that they accused them of not being allowed out of the temple by the Red Shirt leadership. It was a misunderstanding that could have ended much worse than it did. She was then protected by guards, led out of the temple to the stage area, and then escorted out of the protest area by guards and journalists (including me).

I'm a bit puzzled by the 'asking wrong questions'. Reporters are supposed to do that I think. It may not always be smart to do, but that's what journalists do. In the Western world politicians and protesters have become used to the wildest accusations and keep their cool, even on a Glenn Beck rant. A language difficulty is no issue here as the lady is Thai.

It reminds me of this

"We needed to have the press be our friend ... We wanted them to ask the questions we want to answer so that they report the news the way we want it to be reported."

--Sharron Angle, during an interview with Fox News Channel's Carl Cameron, Aug. 2, 2010

Edited February 20, 2011 by rubl

[Buchholz]

It is now Sunday morning and I cannot find any news about the "solid evidence".

As this is one of the very few remaining on-topic posts, the "solid evidence" was a copy of Abhisit's birth certificate that Amsterdam obtained for the Red Shirts money-man. Astounding proof, eh?

Amsterdam went to England and got a copy of Abhisit's birth certificate which proves that he was born a British citizen," UDD leader Jatuporn Prompang told a gathering of more than 10,000 red-shirted followers.

Amsterdam was hired by fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, the de facto leader of the Puea Thai opposition party and the money-man behind the UDD, also called red shirts for their preferred protest garb.

DPA

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/368116,proof-premier-is-british.html

Edited February 20, 2011 by Buchholz

[nicknostitz]

If there was a valid citizenship issue to remove Abhisit with he would not have become PM or even an MP. That they try to pull a 'Birther' scam on him tied to the lame-ass ICC filing of that damed hamster on Thaksin's moneied treadmill, is just more of the same; clutching at straws to keep in the press and keep some vague appearance of relevance. That Jatuporn will run with it like it's a giant revelation is just SOP for the noxious, fat prawn/pawn of Thaksin's making. So... it's the day after, wheres the beef? What is this BIg PROOF.

This has nothing in common with the "Birther" situation, which has quite strong racist/nationalist undertones. Jatuporn yesterday has in his speech expressively stated that he this does not concern Abhisit's birth in a foreign country (quote: "one cannot choose one's country of birth, but if one does good or bad"). Abhisit's alleged dual nationality only concerns the eligibility of the ICC being able to take up the Red Shirt's case (and if the ICC accepts the case, or if it comes to a conviction is a completely separate matter).

Jatuporn has yesterday shown and distributed to the media Abhisit's copies of Abhisit's birth certificate from Newcastle, which, as far as i understand the matter, shows that he was entitled to an automatic British citizenship, unless Abhsist has actively renounced it. Which, again, only concerns the ICC case primarily. But as i am not a legal expert, we may have to wait for what legal experts will have to say about this, before we can judge this.

[rubl]

It is now Sunday morning and I cannot find any news about the "solid evidence".

As this is one of the very few remaining on-topic posts, the "solid evidence" was a copy of Abhisit's birth certificate that Amsterdam obtained for the Red Shirts money-man. Astounding proof, eh?

Amsterdam went to England and got a copy of Abhisit's birth certificate which proves that he was born a British citizen," UDD leader Jatuporn Prompang told a gathering of more than 10,000 red-shirted followers.

Amsterdam was hired by fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, the de facto leader of the Puea Thai opposition party and the money-man behind the UDD, also called red shirts for their preferred protest garb.

DPA

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/368116,proof-premier-is-british.html

From the earthtimes article:

"Seventeen UDD leaders who were arrested in May and face charges of terrorism and breaking the emergency decree by staging violent protests, remain imprisoned.

On Monday, the court will decide whether to grant at least seven of them bail.

"I hope that they will have all been granted bail by May 19 so we can all regroup to mark the first anniversary of the crackdown," Jatupon told the crowd at Ratchprasong Raod, a shopping district that was occupied by the UDD last year."

'Regroup to mark' sounds a wee bit militant to me. Planning another round of grenades and torching ?

Edited February 20, 2011 by rubl