Another Rant About Airline Fees - But With A Point

[californiabeachboy]

I just booked my first ticket with Air Asia (online), and I am exhausted. There were so many fees, I just started hitting buttons to get it over with. I am not sure, but I may be sitting next to the pilot. The one that got to me was the fee for using a debit/credit card online. I kept looking for a slot on my computer where I could feed it cash and avoid that fee, but I couldn't find one, so I paid that fee as well.

I remember the old days when, to compare rates, you had to spend a lot of time by calling the different airlines. Then the Internet came along, and it became really easy to compare fares, which I am sure annoyed the airlines. But, as one poster said, you cannot beat the airlines at their own game, so the airlines have found out that by adding various fees at various prices at the end of the booking, it makes it really hard to compare fares unless you go all the way to the end of the site.

But there is a point to this rant. I would like to see a website that compares END prices - that is with the normal traveler needs - one moderate checked bag, choose your seat, and use your credit/debit card. Maybe it already exits, but I haven't seen it.

In my case, the starting price, with taxes (something the airline really has no control over) was about 3,800 baht on a trip form Bangkok to Phuket and back. By the end it was about 4,800 baht, roughly a 25% increase. I am curious as to how that would differ on the other airlines, say Nok or Bangkok Air, or any other airline that flies in or around Thailand

[CharlieH]

With Air ASIA its all about the marketing ploy, show the cheapest lowest fare possible and then ADD ADD ADD at every conceivable point. This kind of tactics I find enfuriating and leaves the customer in most cases feeling ripped off. (IMHO).<br><br>The difference in your figures;of around 25% proves my point exactly........and cheap doesnt always mean good either.

Nok Air are very clear and the total price for a similiar trip was 3344 baht ALL inclusive including an extra baggage allowance, insurance, taxes & Vat nothing hidden no "Extras"!

If you didnt need the insurance or additional baggage the price is a mere 2980 baht ALL IN ....no "extras"

Edited February 20, 2011 by CharlieH

[ThaiRich]

Dude I feel your pain. Last week I used an online booking agent to buy a round trip ticket for my holiday to Hawaii. I searched all the airlines and the agent had the best price by 500 baht. So, I booked it and as I was going through the booking process at the very end AFTER you enter your credit card information just before "proceed with authorization" , in very small letters appears a line "booking fee 2000 baht". So, the fare ended up being nearly 1,500 more than booking with the airlines directly instead of 500 baht cheaper.

[ding]

OTDairfare dot com... puhLEEZ!

Yes, an 'Out The Door' airfare site would be an instant sucess. In the states, cell phone service prices are just as mercurial. Anyone know a VC for my just announced ultra-secret start-up idea?

[ignis]

Found Air Asia is cheap only if you book 3+ months ahead, and or your flexible with the dates.. [or they have a promotion on]

Last year had to go to Australia, it was urgent and less then a week, worked out Air Asia would have cost over 4,000 baht more then Thai Air.

Just out of interest looking online last week to fly to KL in May, checked Air Asia my dates = 5,995 baht, I put in the return date as staying another day and the price 3,335 baht.. looking the following week the price was 2,335 baht, all were return with the tax..........

I put in going in 7 days for 3 nights, the price with tax and 1x 15 kg bag without the online booking fee was over 500 baht more than flying Air Malaysia

[californiabeachboy]

I wish now I had booked Nok Air. I looked into it, but since they fly out of Don Muang, and I am not real experienced with getting around Bkk, I decided to go with AA. I was leaving on a Friday afternoon, and as I understand it the only way to get to DM is by taxi. I have found Bkk taxis to be somewhat unreliable, along with Bkk traffic. I know there have been complaints about the new airport link, but it does provide some reliability to getting to the airport. I just wish Nok Air could fly out of Suv, but I assume AA would fight like heck to keep them out.

[tommytouch]

As earlier stated the Nok website is very easy to use and there are no hidden fares. I'm pretty sure the Orient Thai site is equally upfront. I also like Nok because you can choose to pay at 7/11 using a code given to you when booking.

I wouldn't worry about Don Muang, it's a far more pleasurable experience than Survanabumi. Once you're on the tollway you should be there within 30 minutes, no different to Survanabumi. It might take longer on a Friday afternoon though. The airport terminal is convieniently small and I think it's only used by Thai, Nok and Orient Thai, so there's never many people and it's highly unlikely your flight will be delayed.

[SantiSuk]

I wish now I had booked Nok Air. I looked into it, but since they fly out of Don Muang, and I am not real experienced with getting around Bkk, I decided to go with AA. I was leaving on a Friday afternoon, and as I understand it the only way to get to DM is by taxi. I have found Bkk taxis to be somewhat unreliable, along with Bkk traffic. I know there have been complaints about the new airport link, but it does provide some reliability to getting to the airport. I just wish Nok Air could fly out of Suv, but I assume AA would fight like heck to keep them out.

Since Nok Air is ultimately Government owned and an affiliated company to the government-owned Thai Airways I think it is more likely that AA suffers discrimination than do Nok Air or Thai Airways.

If both Nok and Thai were allowed to run out of Swampy in competition with AA then I guess AA would have some pretty strong words to say about government and anti-competitive approaches. It would set an awful precedent for other industries where the government might want to stimulate inward investment

As it is I am convinced that Thai and Nok work in cahoots on the BKK to Ubon route to try to oust AA. A relatively low volume domestic route does not need three carriers but Nok Air comes in and out on a biennial basis with much lower prices than Thai (about the same as AA). I suspect its sole objective is to knock AA off the route. Luckily AA seems now to have a pretty strong grip. If they were forced off the route would Nok continue its low fares in competition with Thai, Does the Pope shit in the woods?

[SantiSuk]

Found Air Asia is cheap only if you book 3+ months ahead, and or your flexible with the dates.. [or they have a promotion on]

Last year had to go to Australia, it was urgent and less then a week, worked out Air Asia would have cost over 4,000 baht more then Thai Air.

Just out of interest looking online last week to fly to KL in May, checked Air Asia my dates = 5,995 baht, I put in the return date as staying another day and the price 3,335 baht.. looking the following week the price was 2,335 baht, all were return with the tax..........

I put in going in 7 days for 3 nights, the price with tax and 1x 15 kg bag without the online booking fee was over 500 baht more than flying Air Malaysia

I find that they normally have a promotion on, even with ten days left to run to flight time. Not a huge discount like those juicy adverts, but usually a worthwhile reduction from their 'Regular Fare'. This probably varies on different routes, so I am not saying you are wrong - just that your observations are not universal. I have used them regularly on Ubon to BKK and BKK to Phnom Penh or BKK to CM. I have never yet found them more expensive than their route competition, except on maybe 2 occasions out of 100+ journeys when I was booking a flight late at the start or end of a public holiday or booking late for a Sunday night return to BKK. I think they may have been beaten a couple of times on price on the BKK to CM route for me also.

[lomatopo]

AirAsia (FD in this case) have limited sales channels so you'll never find them on a fare compare site. Their booking system is a bit crazy; they should show you the all-in fare, and within the rules they do that. I think you'll find they're a LCO for BKK-HKT. FWIW, airlines pay government sales tax (7% in this case), which is actually paid by the consumer of course, on the base fare, but they do not pay any tax on all the additional fees: baggage, change, YQ (fuel surcharge), on-board food, etc. Hence the reason for breaking all this out from the fare; profitability/less tax. Also any contract discounting (coprorate, government - obviously less of an issue for FD) is applied only to the base fare. So there is a reason to this madness. AirASia are quite successful, and consumers seem to be immune to their fare/fee structure/system as they've got to be getting repeat customers.

It would be great if the OP could present a detailed break-out for his fare?

I got this far....without the baggage supersizing - the least expensive all-in fare, for the same dates, that I could find was 8,070 on PG.

Adults: 1 Total: 3,586.02 THBDepart

FD 3023 Bangkok (BKK) to Phuket (HKT)

Wednesday, 23 March 2011

Depart 0735 Arrive 0900

Regular (BKK - HKT)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1,575.71 THB1 Guest @ 1,575.71 THB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100.00 THBAirport Tax

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

117.30 THBVAT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Return

FD 3022 Phuket (HKT) to Bangkok (BKK)

Wednesday, 30 March 2011

Depart 0655 Arrive 0815

Regular (HKT - BKK)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1,575.71 THB1 Guest @ 1,575.71 THB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100.00 THBAirport Tax

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

117.30 THBVAT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3,586.02 THBTotal

Edited February 21, 2011 by lomatopo

[el jefe]

AirAsia (FD in this case) have limited sales channels so you'll never find them on a fare compare site. Their booking system is a bit crazy; they should show you the all-in fare, and within the rules they do that. I think you'll find they're a LCO for BKK-HKT. FWIW, airlines pay government sales tax (7% in this case), which is actually paid by the consumer of course, on the base fare, but they do not pay any tax on all the additional fees: baggage, change, YQ (fuel surcharge), on-board food, etc. Hence the reason for breaking all this out from the fare; profitability/less tax. Also any contract discounting (coprorate, government - obviously less of an issue for FD) is applied only to the base fare. So there is a reason to this madness. AirASia are quite successful, and consumers seem to be immune to their fare/fee structure/system as they've got to be getting repeat customers.

1. All airlines pay VAT on the fees highlighted above. Do you really think the govts are so foolish as to let this slip by?

2. Except for the convenience fee, the total cost of any Air Asia flight is easily available on the upper right of the first screen that comes up after you select your dates and destination.

[PattayaParent]

Dude I feel your pain. Last week I used an online booking agent to buy a round trip ticket for my holiday to Hawaii. I searched all the airlines and the agent had the best price by 500 baht. So, I booked it and as I was going through the booking process at the very end AFTER you enter your credit card information just before "proceed with authorization" , in very small letters appears a line "booking fee 2000 baht". So, the fare ended up being nearly 1,500 more than booking with the airlines directly instead of 500 baht cheaper.

If 500 Baht saving over a regular airline is such a big deal you should really consider not flying and save a lot more.

[californiabeachboy]

As requested here is the Invoice they sent me after I made the purchase:

Flight

1 Guest 3509.36 THB

Airport Tax 200.00 THB

Value Added Tax 259.66 THB

Sub Total 3969.02 THB

Services & Fees

1 x AirAsia Insure Return (1-10 days) 203.30 THB

1 x Convenience Fee 140.00 THB

1 x Pick A Seat 100.00 THB

2 x Regular - up to 15kg 400.00 THB

Value Added Tax 44.80 THB

Sub Total 888.10 THB

Total Amount 4857.12 THB

Total VAT 304.46 THB

Total Paid 4857.12 THB

I probably shouldn't have taken the Insure Return, but by that time I didn't want to check to see if it was useful and it was only 6 or 7 USD for me so I took it this time (I am sure they know there will be buyer fatigue at some point). But the one that prompted my post was the "convenience fee". I can picture a bunch of AA executives sitting around the table trying to come up with a new fee that the majority of people will have to pay, but they got stumped so they just called it a convenience fee. But I guess that is better name than a "those snakes at Visa/Mastercard charge us a fee when you use your debit/credit card so we will charge you a fee" fee.

But hats off to the airlines for reducing our ability to compare out the door fares I still think someone should do a start-up whereby you punch in a route and it tells you which airlines fly that route and what their fees are for that route. I will invest. But there will be an Investors Fee.

[SantiSuk]

................

2. Except for the convenience fee, the total cost of any Air Asia flight is easily available on the upper right of the first screen that comes up after you select your dates and destination.

...and except for the seat selection cost (if you want to pick one) and except for the hold baggage fee if you want to stow any

I think even us ardent Air Asia fans have to accept that their pricing is pretty opaque compared to Thai, Nok and Bangkok Airways

[bifftastic]

all the low cost airlines seem to do the same, Ryannair add an extra charge for absolutely everything, seems to be the business model for that kind of 'stripped down' style of airline.

I use Air Asia quite a lot and, probably due to the route I fly, there aren't many other choices. I just got a single for Ms Tastic to fly down to Bangkok for an advertised fee of 690 baht one way, with the 'convenience fee' which I thought was exactly the opposite by the way, it was 730 baht I think? It was a sale, and normally the fare is about 1,200 ish, still beats the bus in my opinion. Thai airways is, I think, somewhere in the region of three or four times as expensive for that route, admittedly with no hidden extras but they don't really need any at that price do they?

Where Air Asia do seem less competitive, is on the long haul from the UK to KL, I took it once because it was something like £270 return, now, every time I look it's well over £500!

The world of airline ticket pricing is a mystery to me, I just keep my eye on it and try to grab bargains when and where I can.

Takes a bit of juggling around with Air Asia, one day earlier or later can make quite a bit of difference in the price. Oh and this 'convenience fee' apparently, if you have a bank account with SCB, I believe you can avoid it.

Oh and Air Asia do show up on skyscanner so you can compare them there, albeit without the add ons but including taxes.

[ignis]

Where Air Asia do seem less competitive, is on the long haul from the UK to KL, I took it once because it was something like £270 return, now, every time I look it's well over £500!

BKK - UK - BKK

I looked random dates March/ May/ Sept for 5 nights =

58.970 baht / 43,550 baht / 26.780 these prices are with the tax but without all the added extras..

Checked just one 5* middle east flight same dates going to LHR [not Stansted] same dates price on all dates 36,600 baht NOTHING to add extra.. + they fly to many airports in the UK, not a single out in the sticks airport in the UK.

These prices are stander ed price book a week before via a travel agent and save a few thousand more. My last trip to Australia, saved almost 6,000 baht booking via a agent on Thai Air 7days before departure.

So Air Asia is a bit cheaper as long as you booking many months ahead.

I have been lucky in the past to get a promotion seat, but in the past 18months simply have been unable to find promotion fare in both directions..........there last promotion was UK for 9,000 baht each way... I checked 100's of combinations of dates in the 'promotion' period but found nothing even close to 18,000 baht return

[bifftastic]

Where Air Asia do seem less competitive, is on the long haul from the UK to KL, I took it once because it was something like £270 return, now, every time I look it's well over £500!

BKK - UK - BKK

I looked random dates March/ May/ Sept for 5 nights =

58.970 baht / 43,550 baht / 26.780 these prices are with the tax but without all the added extras..

Checked just one 5* middle east flight same dates going to LHR [not Stansted] same dates price on all dates 36,600 baht NOTHING to add extra.. + they fly to many airports in the UK, not a single out in the sticks airport in the UK.

These prices are stander ed price book a week before via a travel agent and save a few thousand more. My last trip to Australia, saved almost 6,000 baht booking via a agent on Thai Air 7days before departure.

So Air Asia is a bit cheaper as long as you booking many months ahead.

I have been lucky in the past to get a promotion seat, but in the past 18months simply have been unable to find promotion fare in both directions..........there last promotion was UK for 9,000 baht each way... I checked 100's of combinations of dates in the 'promotion' period but found nothing even close to 18,000 baht return

Interesting, I've been looking for the other way UK to Thailand, over the past few months, just keeping an eye on the prices, cheapest is around the £460 mark (jet, Kingfisher etc.) best direct was Qatar, on a BA plane, around the £550/£600 mark, depending on when you look, these were all for travel in April 2011, Air Asia to KL was regularly over the £550 mark, before you've checked a bag or eaten anything, and still requiring another flight into Thailand.

I use them for the short hops, they may well do better from Australia, not sure, that's not my

'manor' as it were