Ford Ranger Starting Problems

[soandso]

Hopefully I will find some expert advice here because Ford seems to be unable to fix the problem:

My 2007 New Ranger (3.0) sometimes will not start, especially on a warm engine which was just turned off. It then takes betweeen 5 and 15 minutes and the car will start again.

Ford changed the battery twice - same problem,

Ford changed the ECU - same problem after a few weeks.

Now another technician recommended a bigger battery (currently running on a 65), but b-quick said that would not be necessary and they just recharged the battery some days ago. Their answer to the problem? Contact Ford!

Somehow I am under the impression that the 65 battery is a little weak because it seems to me that the car is sometimes struggling to get started even with a fully charged battery (of course I take into consideration that it is a diesel engine which - btw - I only ran on 100% diesel!)

I am really p...... because nobody seems to know a simple answer to the problem an I am not interested in bringing the car to Ford again who just do something which does not help and charge me for it.

Any expert advice? I would really appreciate it...

[a51mas]

Since you only have problem when warm you can eliminate the battery as the cause of the problem, it seems that you have high resistance which may be cause by loose ground at engine block or a loose positive cable at starter, and few times I have encountered positive cable corroded under the insulation that you can not see. All these would cause high resistance and problem starting when warm, my opinion is based solely on experience with GM products as I have never worked on Ford products, But all vehicles' electrical systems are basically the same.:jap:

[Pib]

I seriously doubt it your battery. A 65 battery puts out around 650amp cold starting power...more than enough to start a 3.0L or even a 6.0L. Plus they have changed the battery a couple of times. Sounds like your starter/solenoid switch may be the problem...or a funky/dirty/corroded connection on the starter/solenoid. Have you tried rocking/moving the vehicle with the clutch engaged (or transmission in Drive if an Automatic) when it won't start, as that can make the flywheel turn the starter just a little which may make the starter/solenoid engage electrically and start the vehicle/allow current flow...just enough for the starter to magically work again and start your vehicle.

Or if you have a voltmeter you could measure the voltage across the battery terminals while starting...if the battery voltage hardly drops this means no or low current flow is occurring which could be a starter/solenoid/corroded connection problem....or it could be a battery problem but highly doubtful since it's been replaced. Or you could have a someone give you a jump when it don't start...if it still don't start then that's more proof it's not battery related. Heck, the battery in my Toyota Fortuner 3.0L diesel just died quickly a few months ago...the guy who gay me a jump was driving a small Honda with a battery about half the physical size/amperage of the battery in my Fortuner...I expect my Fortuner battery is about the same size/amperage as your Ford Ranger 3.0L engine and when my Fortuner starts I can barely hear the starter turn as the Fortuner starts in about a half second, cold or hot.

Oh, the diesel fuel in Thailand ain't really 100% diesel...it's actually B2 or B3 diesel (which means 2 or 3% biodiesel) although fuel companies don't advertise it as such...and B5 diesel is 5% bio-diesel. I've always used B5 in my Fortuner and get about 99% of the same full mileage as regular diesel...but lately I been using regular diesel since it's the same price as B5 versus the previous price of being about 1.5 baht cheaper per liter.

[Pib]

Just remember that one of my in-laws had a problem "kinda" like yours a few months back on an Isuzu 3L diesel truck where the truck would start most of the time but occasionally wouldn't crank...he would only get a clicking sound like a switch trying to engage...this would happen whether the truck was cold or hot. The battery was less than months old. That clicking sound was the solenoid in/on his starter not working properly. He had his starter/solenoid rebuilt and the problem is now gone. Over my decades of life I've had similar starter problems on a variety of vehicles, although starters now days are more reliable...but they still go bad.

If you have a voltmeter it would be worth checking your alternator's charging voltage. Put the DC voltmeter leads across the battery terminals with the truck running and you should get a voltage someone around 13 to 14.5 volts with 13.5 to 14.5 volts being the mostly likely range for a charging circuit working properly. As the battery charges up a little after staring the charging voltage will go toward the lower end of above mentioned ranges.

And definitely check your battery terminal connections. Just because the Ford place changed the battery don't mean they cleaned the battery "cable" terminals. When the Toyota dealership replaced my Fortuner's battery they kept the vehicle running, loosened/removed the battery terminal cable connectors, lifted the cables straight up with the vehicle still running, another guy lifted the old battery out, then placed the new battery in, and the other guys placed the cables back on the new battery with the vehicle still running without cleaning the cable connectors (which really didn't need cleaning as I had cleaned them about 6 months earlier). They change the battery this way to prevent AM/FM channels settings from being lost and maybe some other settings being lost like the clock time, etc. When I got home, I removed the battery cables to ensure the connectors were clean, put them back on, and then reset my AM/FM channel settings, clock, etc. Additionally, the dealership did not check the alternator charging voltage...they just assumed it was a battery problem...I already know it was just a battery that gave up the ghost after two years of life but I was expecting them to do a battery load test but they didn't. I also checked my alternator charging voltage which was fine.

But your problem sure don't sound like a battery problem...it seems to be a connection/fuse connection/starter/solenoid problem.

[soandso]

Thanks to everyone for your advice and comments.

I will try to explain what should be checked to a garage and hopefully the problem can be sorted out and solved...

[transam]

Does the engine turn over but will not start ? Or nothing happen when turn the key.

[soandso]

Does the engine turn over but will not start ? Or nothing happen when turn the key.

Mostly there is just a "click" when I turn the key and nothing more. But sometimes it seems that the car tries to start but just for a second. This is why Ford always thaught the battery was dead ...

[transam]

Does the engine turn over but will not start ? Or nothing happen when turn the key.

Mostly there is just a "click" when I turn the key and nothing more. But sometimes it seems that the car tries to start but just for a second. This is why Ford always thaught the battery was dead ...

Could be that the battery hasn't got enough amps. Because of high compression diesels need a high amp battery, 100amp is good. If you have a pal with a Vigo or similar ask to just try there battery.

Clicking is the battery hasn't enough power, the starter cog is stuck in the flywheel ring gear, bad battery earth or starter motor prob. Try a big battery first.

[Pib]

Does the engine turn over but will not start ? Or nothing happen when turn the key.

Mostly there is just a "click" when I turn the key and nothing more. But sometimes it seems that the car tries to start but just for a second. This is why Ford always thaught the battery was dead ...

Exact same problem as what my in-law had on his Dmax truck...see my post #4, first paragraph above. The problem was his starter, which has an integrated solenoid. He only had about 50KM on the truck.

Over my decades I've experienced the same problem on several of my vehicle...whenever it was not a weak/dead battery or corroded battery connection problem, it was the starter solenoid. The starter solenoid carries a LOT of current (hundreds of amps) whenever starting a vehicle and this causes pitting/burning/carbonization on solenoid contacts, which after a while causes an intermittent or no connection...current/amperage flow is greatly reduced due to the increased/high contact resistance. It's kinda like flipping a light switch...you hear the flipping (clicking) of the switch but the lights don't come on because the switch electrical contacts are burnt/carbonized/dirty/broken. Heck, in the old days when it was still pretty easy just to remove and take apart the solenoid, a person could clean up the solenoid electrical contact points with a wire brush and you were good to go for another few years until the contact points got too burnt. You can still do this on many models, but it faster just to replace the starter and/or solenoid.

The Ford folks could also quickly and easily check the voltage getting to the starter by using a DC voltmeter to check the voltage level reaching the starter. If 12V is arriving the starter "solenoid" "when trying to start the vehicle," then the only thing preventing high current flow from that point to ground (i.e., going through your starter) is the starter/solenoid switch not fully engaging to allow current flow (i.e., probably bad solenoid electrical contacts) through the starter motor. Think of it like two on/off switches being between electrical ground and the battery 12V terminal. When you turn the ignition key/switch, voltage is applied to the starter solenoid switch which causes it to switch to the On position which, in turn, allows voltage and current flow to go through your starter motor to ground. This high current flow is going through the finger size battery cables; not the ignition switch. The motor draws hundreds of amps through the solenoid switch, the starter motor spins, your vehicle starts. But if the current flow is greatly reduced due to a bad electricial contact, then there is not enough current reaching the starter motor.

It's almost like trying to make the starter work with a couple of 8 brand new 1.5V D cell flashlight batteries which adds up to 12V, but they don't have the current capability to turn a vehicle starter motor. Nor will a brand new vehicle battery spin the starter motor if not enough current is going through the starter due to a funky (high resistance) elecrtrical connection. Of course the starter motor windings could bad, but the chances of a bad seleonoid switch are much higher plus when starter motor windings fail they normally fail completely...won't work any more regardless of the situation or temperature. Plus, a funky electrical connection is affected by temperature/humidity...and just how the electrical contacts happenned to come together when attempting to start the car...just like a funky light switch that works sometimes and sometimes it don't. Good luck.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Pib

[Pib]

Does the engine turn over but will not start ? Or nothing happen when turn the key.

Mostly there is just a "click" when I turn the key and nothing more. But sometimes it seems that the car tries to start but just for a second. This is why Ford always thaught the battery was dead ...

Could be that the battery hasn't got enough amps. Because of high compression diesels need a high amp battery, 100amp is good. If you have a pal with a Vigo or similar ask to just try there battery.

Clicking is the battery hasn't enough power, the starter cog is stuck in the flywheel ring gear, bad battery earth or starter motor prob. Try a big battery first.

But if the truck starts normally/good most of the time and since the compresssion of the engine remains the same, the current battery is probably big enough starting amperage-wise. Usually, a battery meant for a gasoline engine (a battery still in good condition) will still start a high compression diesel engine but the battery won't last nearly as long due to the much higher current/amperage flow the battery is putting out...more than the designed/expected day-to-day use. Hopefully the Ford folks did replace it with a battery number that is meant for the Ford Ranger with diesel engine.

[soandso]

Does the engine turn over but will not start ? Or nothing happen when turn the key.

Mostly there is just a "click" when I turn the key and nothing more. But sometimes it seems that the car tries to start but just for a second. This is why Ford always thaught the battery was dead ...

Could be that the battery hasn't got enough amps. Because of high compression diesels need a high amp battery, 100amp is good. If you have a pal with a Vigo or similar ask to just try there battery.

Clicking is the battery hasn't enough power, the starter cog is stuck in the flywheel ring gear, bad battery earth or starter motor prob. Try a big battery first.

But if the truck starts normally/good most of the time and since the compresssion of the engine remains the same, the current battery is probably big enough starting amperage-wise. Usually, a battery meant for a gasoline engine (a battery still in good condition) will still start a high compression diesel engine but the battery won't last nearly as long due to the much higher current/amperage flow the battery is putting out...more than the designed/expected day-to-day use. Hopefully the Ford folks did replace it with a battery number that is meant for the Ford Ranger with diesel engine.

Please read this!

Following your much appreciated advice I took the car to a different Ford dealership today and specifically asked to check the solenoid and battery cables and just received the following status report:

The mechanic working on my car stated that my former Ford garage (I guess I am here not allowed to name them?!) obviously fit in a used battery and replaced the ECU without any reason. This means that I paid mor than 5.000 Baht for a used battery and unnecessary spare part. Unfortunately I cannot prove it because it happened more than one year ago. But I can only hope that some Ford managers are following this forum.

The reason for the starting problems - which also occured today after the mechanic took the car on a 30 minute ride - are (100% according to him) that the old/used battery gets too hot and then will not start again.

After a few minutes, when the battery cooled down a little, the car will start again. So I need to buy a new battery again (my 5th in 4 years and with less than 60km!!!).

I am still a little confused because just two weeks ago I had the battery fully recharged at a b-quick shop and the guys there did not want to sell me a new battery because they said it was fine.

I am no expert so is there any reason to trust in the latest diagnosis at Ford?.

[Lickey]

OP, classic case of overcharging, 5 batteries in 4 years, youve definitely got alternator problems,

Ive just read your posts, Ranger starts ok when cold, thats when turnover starter speed is at its most sluggish, doesnt want to start when hot, with overcharging, the excess voltage tends to buckle the battery plates causing heat and gassing, when it cools, it will work again,

So your new ford garage is half-way there, you must get the charging checked or change the alternator anyway,

Cheers, Lickey.

[transam]

Don't know your starter motor setup, but is the starter near anything that gets really hot. I had the same problem on my Pontiac cos the exhaust hedders run close to the starter and transferd heat.

The fix was to wrap asbestos (substitute) cloth around the starter/solenoid held with twists of copper wire and made a heat shield from alloy sheet. Bought a remote solenoid, bridging terminals on the stock one, and fixed that away from heat Problem solved. Just a thought . In other words the solenoid was heat effected.

[Pib]

The reason for the starting problems - which also occured today after the mechanic took the car on a 30 minute ride - are (100% according to him) that the old/used battery gets too hot and then will not start again.

After a few minutes, when the battery cooled down a little, the car will start again. So I need to buy a new battery again (my 5th in 4 years and with less than 60km!!!).

I am still a little confused because just two weeks ago I had the battery fully recharged at a b-quick shop and the guys there did not want to sell me a new battery because they said it was fine.

I am no expert so is there any reason to trust in the latest diagnosis at Ford?.

Just because a battery appears to take a charge does not mean it will "hold" the charge due to internal battery problems. I expect you've probably had rechargeable batteries in cordless phones, cell phones, laptop computers, etc., that charge to 100% according to the their charge indicators but the battery just don't hold the charge any where near like it did when it was new---that's a failing/old battery problem...common with all types of rechargeable batteries. For example, recently my cordless phone only had a Talk time of about 2 hours before it just wouldn't work anymore...I put it back in the recharging cradle and it recharges to 100%...do another long call and about about 2 hours I get the low battery problem again. But when the battery was new I never had this issue. I replaced the rechargeable battery about a month ago and now my 2 hour long calls don't get cut short due to a low battery condition...in fact, after a two hour call the charge indicator still reflects around 80% power left...according to the phone's specifications I should be able to get around a 7 hour talk time which I would probably get now with the new battery if I had a 7 hour call.

But the part where the mechanic says "....the old battery gets to hot...", well, it it's getting too hot it's due to the alternator overcharging the battery and/or the battery is failing, but not due to heat in the engine compartment "while driving." While driving you have lots of airflow in the engine compartment which helps to cool the battery, but when you stop/turn off the engine there is no air flow around the battery which would cause it to heat up for the first 15 minutes of so after the engine is turned off, because oil/water/air cooling is no longer occurring in the engine/engine compartment which in turn causes a short term spike in engine compartment temperature. But if the alternator is overcharging and with the engine is turned off, the alternator is no longer charging which would allow the battery to cool down faster--if overcharging was the problem.

The previously mentioned voltmeter test with the engine idling and rev'ed up to driving RPM would quicly show if the alternator is over or undercharging, but usually an alternator & its built-in regulator cause the battery to fail due to undercharging, not overcharging. Usually it's the built-in regulator that fails which causes the alternator's undercharging/low voltage & amperage output...the built-in regulator can can sometimes be replaced without replacing the whole alternator. And actually, an alternator that is slightly undercharging could cause the current problem because when you turn the engine off you lower the amperage drain and the battery naturally through it's intermal chemical reaction kinda self charges a little...maybe just enough to start your vehicle again. It all depends on how borderline the battery and/or alternator may be operating.

I don't remember you mentioning in your earlier posts that the current battery was over a year ago...that makes a big difference. Even if the battery was new when replaced but it was one of the lower cost (cheaper) batteries, then in a tropical/hot/humid environment like Thailand has, it's not uncommon for them to fail early especially on bigger/high compression diesel engines regardless of the battery warranty saying good for 36 months or something along those lines...or at least that has been my car battery experience from living in hot places like Thailand, the Philippines, Florida, and Hawaii. So, if you bought a lower cost battery to crank your high compression diesel engine in Thailand hot environment, it could very well be a failing battery problem, either due to the battery just failing or the alternator over or undercharging the battery. And hopefully you have been keeping the water level in the battery within its upper and lower limits, assuming it's not a maintenance free battery which don't require a water level check....letting the water level drop below its lower limit exposes the upper part of the battery plates to air which is not a good thing as it starts a chemical reaction which can not be reversed/fixed by just reading water if the plates are exposed to the air too long...it usually causes permanent damage to the upper parts of the plates if exposed to the air too long....."too long" is somewhere in the several days ballpark.

[Semper]

The reason for the starting problems - which also occured today after the mechanic took the car on a 30 minute ride - are (100% according to him) that the old/used battery gets too hot and then will not start again.

After a few minutes, when the battery cooled down a little, the car will start again. So I need to buy a new battery again (my 5th in 4 years and with less than 60km!!!).

I am still a little confused because just two weeks ago I had the battery fully recharged at a b-quick shop and the guys there did not want to sell me a new battery because they said it was fine.

I am no expert so is there any reason to trust in the latest diagnosis at Ford?.

Just because a battery appears to take a charge does not mean it will "hold" the charge due to internal battery problems. I expect you've probably had rechargeable batteries in cordless phones, cell phones, laptop computers, etc., that charge to 100% according to the their charge indicators but the battery just don't hold the charge any where near like it did when it was new---that's a failing/old battery problem...common with all types of rechargeable batteries. For example, recently my cordless phone only had a Talk time of about 2 hours before it just wouldn't work anymore...I put it back in the recharging cradle and it recharges to 100%...do another long call and about about 2 hours I get the low battery problem again. But when the battery was new I never had this issue. I replaced the rechargeable battery about a month ago and now my 2 hour long calls don't get cut short due to a low battery condition...in fact, after a two hour call the charge indicator still reflects around 80% power left...according to the phone's specifications I should be able to get around a 7 hour talk time which I would probably get now with the new battery if I had a 7 hour call.

But the part where the mechanic says "....the old battery gets to hot...", well, it it's getting too hot it's due to the alternator overcharging the battery and/or the battery is failing, but not due to heat in the engine compartment "while driving." While driving you have lots of airflow in the engine compartment which helps to cool the battery, but when you stop/turn off the engine there is no air flow around the battery which would cause it to heat up for the first 15 minutes of so after the engine is turned off, because oil/water/air cooling is no longer occurring in the engine/engine compartment which in turn causes a short term spike in engine compartment temperature. But if the alternator is overcharging and with the engine is turned off, the alternator is no longer charging which would allow the battery to cool down faster--if overcharging was the problem.

The previously mentioned voltmeter test with the engine idling and rev'ed up to driving RPM would quicly show if the alternator is over or undercharging, but usually an alternator & its built-in regulator cause the battery to fail due to undercharging, not overcharging. Usually it's the built-in regulator that fails which causes the alternator's undercharging/low voltage & amperage output...the built-in regulator can can sometimes be replaced without replacing the whole alternator. And actually, an alternator that is slightly undercharging could cause the current problem because when you turn the engine off you lower the amperage drain and the battery naturally through it's intermal chemical reaction kinda self charges a little...maybe just enough to start your vehicle again. It all depends on how borderline the battery and/or alternator may be operating.

I don't remember you mentioning in your earlier posts that the current battery was over a year ago...that makes a big difference. Even if the battery was new when replaced but it was one of the lower cost (cheaper) batteries, then in a tropical/hot/humid environment like Thailand has, it's not uncommon for them to fail early especially on bigger/high compression diesel engines regardless of the battery warranty saying good for 36 months or something along those lines...or at least that has been my car battery experience from living in hot places like Thailand, the Philippines, Florida, and Hawaii. So, if you bought a lower cost battery to crank your high compression diesel engine in Thailand hot environment, it could very well be a failing battery problem, either due to the battery just failing or the alternator over or undercharging the battery. And hopefully you have been keeping the water level in the battery within its upper and lower limits, assuming it's not a maintenance free battery which don't require a water level check....letting the water level drop below its lower limit exposes the upper part of the battery plates to air which is not a good thing as it starts a chemical reaction which can not be reversed/fixed by just reading water if the plates are exposed to the air too long...it usually causes permanent damage to the upper parts of the plates if exposed to the air too long....."too long" is somewhere in the several days ballpark.

Off topic but 2hour phone calls.

[Pib]

Off topic but 2hour phone calls.

Yea, occasionally when I call family back in the States it's amazing how time flies by talking about this and that. Plus, with my VOIP I pay X-amount per month for unlimited calling, so, it don't cost me any more whether I never call anyone or call people 24/7 each month. Apology accepted.

But hopefully that cordless phone battery example will help point out that just because a battery charges up to an indication of 100% charged (which is really just a voltage level indication), it doesn't mean the "amperage" capacity/charge is there also....kinda like static electricity: lots of voltage but extremely little amperage. And as we know, it takes a LOT of amps to crank a vehicle engine. Cheers.