Do You Suffer Much?

[chownah]

I've been learning a bit about Buddhism and I'm trying to see if what is taught seems to fit us. They say that the Buddhist view is that life in general is full of suffering. They don't limit suffering to just the "oh, my god this really hurts and I think I'm going to die" type of suffering...they also include more petty stuff like frustration, anxiety, disappointment, craving, etc. Anyway, they usually start their lecture on Buddhism by saying that life is predominantly (if not totally) filled with this kind of suffering. I'm wondering what you people think about this idea...do you "suffer" every day? constantly? once a day? once a week? once a month? Seems to me that with all the complaining and whining and angry responses that goes on here that there would be alot of this Buddhist idea of "suffering" going on but I want a perspective different from what the Buddhist lecturers give.

Edit: Mods, please don't move this to the Buddhist section...not many people go there and I really want the opinion of non-Buddhists as well as Buddhists.

Edited September 12, 2005 by chownah

[muldoon]

I've been learning a bit about Buddhism and I'm trying to see if what is taught seems to fit us.  They say that the Buddhist view is that life in general is full of suffering.  They don't limit suffering to just the "oh, my god this really hurts and I think I'm going to die" type of suffering...they also include more petty stuff like frustration, anxiety, disappointment, craving, etc.  Anyway, they usually start their lecture on Buddhism by saying that life is predominantly (if not totally) filled with this kind of suffering.  I'm wondering what you people think about this idea...do you "suffer" every day? constantly? once a day? once a week? once a month?  Seems to me that with all the complaining and whining and angry responses that goes on here that there would be alot of this Buddhist idea of "suffering" going on but I want a perspective different from what the Buddhist lecturers give.

Edit: Mods, please don't move this to the Buddhist section...not many people go there and I really want the opinion of non-Buddhists as well as Buddhists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Buddhism is a bit dated. I've moved on to Dr. Phil

[geronimo]

I've been learning a bit about Buddhism and I'm trying to see if what is taught seems to fit us.  They say that the Buddhist view is that life in general is full of suffering.  They don't limit suffering to just the "oh, my god this really hurts and I think I'm going to die" type of suffering...they also include more petty stuff like frustration, anxiety, disappointment, craving, etc.  Anyway, they usually start their lecture on Buddhism by saying that life is predominantly (if not totally) filled with this kind of suffering.  I'm wondering what you people think about this idea...do you "suffer" every day? constantly? once a day? once a week? once a month?  Seems to me that with all the complaining and whining and angry responses that goes on here that there would be alot of this Buddhist idea of "suffering" going on but I want a perspective different from what the Buddhist lecturers give.

Edit: Mods, please don't move this to the Buddhist section...not many people go there and I really want the opinion of non-Buddhists as well as Buddhists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that to be buddhist is to rise above the suffering, by that I mean not to let things bother you. Awareness is a big thing, that is be aware of things but do not assume or judge or have opinions.

I went to see an old Thai monk ten years ago and asked him,

"Why are all the Thai people doing things that are so the opposite of Buddha's teachings"?

He asked me if I understood Buddha's teachings and I said yes.

He then asked me why I am spending mental energy wondering why others do not.

"Accept it and leave it at that" was his last remark on the subject.

Works for me

[Indo-Siam]

I will now contribute a bit of expository writing - because thsi topic strikes a chord with me. In no particular order, here are some thoughts:

Personally, I was (through a fairly rigorous military background) accultured to the theory "that which does not kill you shall make you strong".

Stress is certainly inherrent in all aspects of all life. I was intrigued once reading a description about how human life - from conception, through birth, growth, deterioration, and death - is all about one thing - fighting the "stress" of gravity. A newborn infant can't lift its head - neither can a 115 year old woman on her death bed. When you lose the struggle against gravity, you die. As you age, the sign of your aging is the way that your body slowly succumbs to the incessant stress of gravity - a woman's breasts droop, and a man's erections gradually do the same.

All life one earth is subject to being "food" for some other life - whether is is predators, parasites, pathogens, etc. Stress is the normal state of nature - you are trying to obtain nourishment in a manner that puts deadly starin on whatever you choose to eat - while trying not to become nourishment for various parasiste and pathogens.

In my office in Bangkok, I have one of the motivational posters that featues a view of the African savannah, with a gazelle in the background, and a close up frontal shot of a male lion in the foreground. The caption underneath reads: "Every moring, the gazelle awakens, and knows that it must outrun the fastest lion, or it will be killed and eaten. Every morning, the lions awakens, and knwos it must outrun the slowest gazelle, or it will starve to death. Whether you are a gazelle or a lion, every day when you wake up, you must hit the ground running."

So - to me- stress is either the real stress of fending off proximate danger - to yourself, your family, your tribe, or your community - or, in the absence of a proximate threat, rehearsing or practicing the skills needed to overcome the most likely threats that you might encounter in the future.

As a US Army Infantry Officer, I was constantly drilled until it became second nature - whatever your unit is doing now, always, ALWAYS post security - no mattr what. Never trust anyone else to protect your unit. Watch for the enemy, for fire, for natural disaster - whatever - but always have someone on watch. Alwys be planning ahaed - what is the most likely possible threat? Make a contingency plan. In battle, always keep some sort of force in reserve - to ALWAYS give you the capability to react to emergency situations. If you EVER had to commit your reserve, the very first thing you did was scounge around to create a new reserve -using the sick, the lame, the lazy, the clerks, the jerks - whatever - but always reconstitute the reserve.

So - stress is the normal condition of the world. Robust individuals are usually those who expose themselves to artificial stress - working out, or practicing something - in order to best be ready to deal with unavoidable real-world stress.

A sheltered soul who has never faced stress - who has been spoon-fed and protected from the ways of the world - is basically a "bubble boy" - and probably doomed to a short existence once thrust out into the real world.

The body is wonderously designed to react to stress - from thedilatoon of your pupils in bright light, to the release of adrenaline when put into a "fight or flight" situation, to the clotting action of our bloodstream, in reaction to a wound.

Philosophically, stress is almost always relative. ASherpa from Npal, or an Inuit Indian from the Northwest Territories might be miserable in Ibizia - too hot, strange food, etc. The Ibizians (???) - on the other hand - if the scenario is reversed - would pehaps mimic the Jamaican bobsled team aexitsing the Canadian airport in the movie "cool Runnings."

One man's meat is another man's poison.

I remember once seeing one of these little articles in a magazine about life "stress points" - where they present a table with numerical scores for lots of events - such as "getting married" or "getting divorsed" or "being fired from a job," or "changing jobs," or "relocating your home" or "death of a loved one" and so on. The premise of the article was something to the effect - think back on the last 12 months, and see how many of these events had happened to you in that period, then add up the corresponding points, and then compare youur point total to some score tally that matched the number of your total "stress points" to the risk you faced of near-term major medical complications. I went down the list: fired from a job, yup; divorced, yup; relocated to another country, yup; death of a parent, yup; started a new job, yup; got married, yup; birth of child, yup - and so on. I ended up with a BIG number. Then I look at the scoring table - and quickly detemine that I should basically have been dead two times over in just the past year. 'Chuckled, tossed that magazine, and went and had a beer. I finally figured out that I had been socialized to thrive on stress. I would die of boredom in a stress free life.

Those are just a bunch of random thoughts. Paraphrasing Gordon Gecko - "The point is, ladies and gentlemen, is that stress --for lack of a better word--is good. Stress is right. Stress works. Stress clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit...."

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[TRIPxCORE]

I encounter stress everyday in my life. It comes from a multitude of places or things. I should probably learn the teachings of Buddha and practice them because it would more than likely do some good for me but I just do not have the personality for it. I am hot-tempered, easily agitated and always have been even when I was a little boy. There is no way around that. I believe people are born with certain traits and characteristics. To fight off these traits, while it may be possible, is extremely difficult IMO.

Edited September 12, 2005 by TRIPxCORE

[thaibebop]

I've been learning a bit about Buddhism and I'm trying to see if what is taught seems to fit us.  They say that the Buddhist view is that life in general is full of suffering.  They don't limit suffering to just the "oh, my god this really hurts and I think I'm going to die" type of suffering...they also include more petty stuff like frustration, anxiety, disappointment, craving, etc.  Anyway, they usually start their lecture on Buddhism by saying that life is predominantly (if not totally) filled with this kind of suffering.  I'm wondering what you people think about this idea...do you "suffer" every day? constantly? once a day? once a week? once a month?  Seems to me that with all the complaining and whining and angry responses that goes on here that there would be alot of this Buddhist idea of "suffering" going on but I want a perspective different from what the Buddhist lecturers give.

Edit: Mods, please don't move this to the Buddhist section...not many people go there and I really want the opinion of non-Buddhists as well as Buddhists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Buddhism is a bit dated. I've moved on to Dr. Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are suffering!

[chaiyapoon]

I have always tried to call what Steve says is 'stress' as 'pressure'.I worked for GM for over 30 years.25 of them in management.I had good times and sometimes truely stressful years but nearly all the time was constantly under pressure.As a management group we were under pressure to improve every stage of the manufacturing process.Unfortunately the pressure often became stress which if it continued for too long began to 'break' weaker members of the team.I see pressure as healthy and stress as ok for short term issues but if not relieved will become destructive and negative to your goals.

[khall64au]

In a holistic sense, I feel stress comes in many forms. Usually the more complicated the lifestyle the more stressed one is prone to be.

For me, stress is usually about money and the great lengths we must go to acquire it. But I also find modern noise very stressful and can become easily agitated. I do find that the more foods I eat or drink which place too much stress on my digestive and nervous systems, the less I am able to cope with environmental stress.

So many stresses, so little time... hugging trees always helps!

[sua yai]

I moved over here to get away from stress. 19 years in publishing, Fleet Street etc and generally it's worked.

The tenets of "live and let live", "mai pen rai" and most importantly for me the idea of reincarnation, just don't work.

The OP asked for some non Buddhist views. That's mine.

However, I sit here doing nothing and certainly do contemplate my existence.

That's pretty stressful in itself.

[DJ Pat]

I get depressed from time to time

[chuchok]

Never get depressed.Do get pissed off from time to time,but I normally show this in a healthy way by beating the &lt;deleted&gt; out of a tree or a nasty looking chair.

never stress either...wife thinks I should stress more, to which I reply "my bpen rai...pass me another chang will ya mate."

[davethailand]

I get depressed from time to time

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We would have never guessed that Pat

[sadman]

Some stress is not only good, it is necessary to make us perform at an optimum level. However, not too much stress and not for protracted periods, which is where many companies get it wrong, IMHO.

Think of a Formula 1 car tyre - it has to be fully warmed up and under stress to work properly, but too much stress, and it blows out. Humans are the same (although usually with less rubber and a nicer colour).

Many of my friends use hypnotherapy to combat stress, and it seems to work very well. I used to use alcohol, but it really doesn't do you much good. So now I do what I like doing, go to the gym regularly, and drink to enjoy - not to escape.

[Guest endure]

'Suffering' is only one translation of the Pali word 'dukkha' and it's not a very good one. More here:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/...ca1/dukkha.html

[Abandon]

"life is Suffering" is a common synopsis of Buddhsim but one that is not accurate. The Buddha spent much time talking about happiness, peace, generosity etc.... these are the 'beautiful' mind states (sobhana).

The actual sutta states "there is suffering" as a matter of fact. That is not suggesting that you should take an English, grumbly, grumpy, depresssed view of the world.

[davethailand]

Open a bar and live in pattaya, that'll stress you out

Bent staff, police etc etc.

Would'nt change a thing though! None of them have beaten me so far and they won't also.

[zaz]

I've been learning a bit about Buddhism and I'm trying to see if what is taught seems to fit us.  They say that the Buddhist view is that life in general is full of suffering.  They don't limit suffering to just the "oh, my god this really hurts and I think I'm going to die" type of suffering...they also include more petty stuff like frustration, anxiety, disappointment, craving, etc.  Anyway, they usually start their lecture on Buddhism by saying that life is predominantly (if not totally) filled with this kind of suffering.  I'm wondering what you people think about this idea...do you "suffer" every day? constantly? once a day? once a week? once a month?  Seems to me that with all the complaining and whining and angry responses that goes on here that there would be alot of this Buddhist idea of "suffering" going on but I want a perspective different from what the Buddhist lecturers give.

Edit: Mods, please don't move this to the Buddhist section...not many people go there and I really want the opinion of non-Buddhists as well as Buddhists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Question is, where does the suffering/stress come from? Is it self-induced? The more complicated one's life is, the more problems stem from that sort of life e.g. some chief executive of a company may be very highly paid but surely has his/her share of stress to go along with it etc. Money or lack of, can also cause suffering. An Islamic point of view on this is that God wishes no suffering on Man and that most of the time suffering is brought upon oneself. However, there are many examples in this world of people who are suffering out of no apparently related self-doing e.g. starving in Africa etc surely that comes from God you may say. In Islam, whatever kind of suffering a person is subjected to he/she is required to be patient and pray for relief. It is believed that suffering is a test to see how that person deals with his/her problems - the right way or the wrong way. Sometimes it is wise to step back and try to understand what exactly it is that is causing the suffering and why.

[KhunPadThai]

>... they usually start their lecture on Buddhism by saying that life is predominantly (if not totally) filled with this kind of suffering. I'm wondering what you people think about this idea...do you "suffer" every day? constantly? once a day? once a week? once a month?

As I understand the Buddhist concept of suffering or dukha, it is different from pain. The other day I found myself stuck with a problem at work that I thought I should not have to deal with. I dreaded working on it, was afraid that I would not be able to solve it and worried that my reputation among my peers would suffer as a result of my imminent failure. So, I felt nervous, tense, resentful, and without confidence. I frequently find myself in mental situations like this. Then on Friday I felt ready to tackle the problem, and found that I could concentrate on it for long periods of time. In this frame of mind, ideas came to me and I tried one after the other with a feeling of curiosity about whether this or that would work. In the end none of the solutions worked and I realized that there is no solution available with the tools on hand. I also realized how much I enjoyed working on the problem and felt envigorated and refreshed by the end of the day.

Probably every one has had a contrasting experience like this. From the Buddhist point of view we may indeed experience pain, which could be the physical pain of a broken leg or the mental pain of having someone else's assignment unfairly thrust on you. But our response to the painful situation may entail our mental suffering, on the one hand, or a full engagement in the situation without rejecting it. From the Buddhist point of view we have more freedom to choose our response than we may realize.

The difference between the suffering and non-suffering response is explained by the Buddhist concept of attachment to the self. In my first response to the situation I was absorbed by worrying about myself, my feelings, and how possible situations in the future might affect me adversely. This is a kind of attachment to my self, or the idea of my person or personality, as distinct from my experience of myself. Although being absorbed by such concerns is a familiar human trait, the problem with it is that it prevents us from being fully engaged in the world around us. As it happens, being preoccupied with ourselves often makes us feel worse, while being more engaged with our environment and the other people in it can make us feel lighter, freer, and more satisfied.

Anyway, I studied Buddhism a long time ago and have thought about it over the years. This is my current understanding.

Khun Pad Thai

[jef]

Those are just a bunch of random thoughts.  Paraphrasing Gordon Gecko - "The point is, ladies and gentlemen, is that stress --for lack of a better word--is good. Stress is right.  Stress works.  Stress clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit...."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Until you die or survive a heart attack

[chuchok]

Some stress is not only good, it is necessary to make us perform at an optimum level. However, not too much stress and not for protracted periods, which is where many companies get it wrong, IMHO.

Think of a Formula 1 car tyre - it has to be fully warmed up and under stress to work properly, but too much stress, and it blows out. Humans are the same (although usually with less rubber and a nicer colour).

Many of my friends use hypnotherapy to combat stress, and it seems to work very well. I used to use alcohol, but it really doesn't do you much good. So now I do what I like doing, go to the gym regularly, and drink to enjoy - not to escape.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not so...Schumies heart/BP hardley even registar a flutter when he is driving.That's why he is so good.Cool, calm collected and a total gripper.

[a2396]

I've been learning a bit about Buddhism and I'm trying to see if what is taught seems to fit us.  They say that the Buddhist view is that life in general is full of suffering.  They don't limit suffering to just the "oh, my god this really hurts and I think I'm going to die" type of suffering...they also include more petty stuff like frustration, anxiety, disappointment, craving, etc.  Anyway, they usually start their lecture on Buddhism by saying that life is predominantly (if not totally) filled with this kind of suffering.  I'm wondering what you people think about this idea...do you "suffer" every day? constantly? once a day? once a week? once a month?  Seems to me that with all the complaining and whining and angry responses that goes on here that there would be alot of this Buddhist idea of "suffering" going on but I want a perspective different from what the Buddhist lecturers give.

Edit: Mods, please don't move this to the Buddhist section...not many people go there and I really want the opinion of non-Buddhists as well as Buddhists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Question is, where does the suffering/stress come from? Is it self-induced? The more complicated one's life is, the more problems stem from that sort of life e.g. some chief executive of a company may be very highly paid but surely has his/her share of stress to go along with it etc. Money or lack of, can also cause suffering. An Islamic point of view on this is that God wishes no suffering on Man and that most of the time suffering is brought upon oneself. However, there are many examples in this world of people who are suffering out of no apparently related self-doing e.g. starving in Africa etc surely that comes from God you may say. In Islam, whatever kind of suffering a person is subjected to he/she is required to be patient and pray for relief. It is believed that suffering is a test to see how that person deals with his/her problems - the right way or the wrong way. Sometimes it is wise to step back and try to understand what exactly it is that is causing the suffering and why.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent reply. In my case, if I wanted to suffer, I would go back to my former place of residence to live. I try to avoid people and environments that give me stress and problems, although this is not always possible. I really do not like religions that preach mankind should be suffering. This is contrary to human happiness. If we want to suffer, we should throw away all our money and family and more to the most disease ridden and downtrodden area on earth and stay there. Obviously, people are not lining up to do such nonsense. The objective in life should be to make yourself and others associated with you happy.

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

Yep I suffer a lot and get very stressed about the mai pen rai attitude here.

So I just say: Whoeshaaaaa and massage my earlids.....

KR,

Alex

[bakachan]

I've been learning a bit about Buddhism and I'm trying to see if what is taught seems to fit us. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your question reminds me of the scene in the movie "The razors edge" where

bill murray is sent to the top of the mountain by the monk and its freezing cold.

I guess he's supposed to transcend from the human level of suffering in the cold to

a higher plane. He reads a little from the book they gave him and suddenly

he says screw it and burns the book to keep warm. He leaves the monastary

soon after and heads back home.

rebirth in another life is a hard pill for me to swallow. I'm just too logical

One thing I did get out of buddism that really does relieve worry and stress is self hypnosis or meditation as they call it. It is another level of consciousness. Your senses are heightened and your thoughts are crystal clear. I went to a professional hypnotherapist to learn. He made a great tape to teach me the technique. The first

time it happened to me it blew me away. It was an incredible sensation.

That was 15 yrs ago and I still use it for headaches, stress and when I can't sleep.

It also gave me a feeling of inner peace that lasted for days after. I think the process

releases tons of serotonin, but not sure haven't researched that part of it.

Einstein said he used to put himself into a state where he felt like he left his

body. It helped him think in the abstract. Was he doing self hypnosis? Sounded

like it to me.

Edited September 13, 2005 by bakachan

[doctormann]

Never get depressed.Do get pissed off from time to time,but I normally show this in a healthy way by beating the &lt;deleted&gt; out of a tree or a nasty looking chair.

never stress either...wife thinks I should stress more, to which I reply "my bpen rai...pass me another chang will ya mate." 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Strange that. My TGF thinks that I stress too much. She's always saying "Think too much", or "Don't worry".

Although life here in LoS is fairly laid back I do get irritated at times - mainly if trying to deal with the unfathomable bureaucracy or if GF seems to be plotting something that she hasn't told me about.

I get the impression that most Thais probably don't stress very much - Lord Buddha is taking care and why worry about things that you can't change anyway.

DM

[DJ Pat]

I get depressed from time to time

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We would have never guessed that Pat

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IIt's not a trivial issue you know, I got feelings :-(

[Chang_paarp]

I've been learning a bit about Buddhism and I'm trying to see if what is taught seems to fit us.  They say that the Buddhist view is that life in general is full of suffering.  They don't limit suffering to just the "oh, my god this really hurts and I think I'm going to die" type of suffering...they also include more petty stuff like frustration, anxiety, disappointment, craving, etc.  Anyway, they usually start their lecture on Buddhism by saying that life is predominantly (if not totally) filled with this kind of suffering.  I'm wondering what you people think about this idea...do you "suffer" every day? constantly? once a day? once a week? once a month?  Seems to me that with all the complaining and whining and angry responses that goes on here that there would be alot of this Buddhist idea of "suffering" going on but I want a perspective different from what the Buddhist lecturers give.

Edit: Mods, please don't move this to the Buddhist section...not many people go there and I really want the opinion of non-Buddhists as well as Buddhists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chownah

Life is full of situations that can cause you to suffer, it is how you react to these situations that makes them stress and suffering.

If you worry constantly about how something might happen or what someone might think you can end up a nut case or a politician.

If you just let it all slide on by, and think it has nothing to do with me, no worries. It may well come to worry you.

If you accept the issues and look at them with an open mind, you can accept the results. Some results you can influence, some you cannot. It is the acceptance of your situation that reduces the stress caused. This does not reduce the suffering or the dukka of your situation just the amount of stress you allow to upset you.

Mind you the flight/fight responce is not always a bad thing, this can occur in those situations you can change the outcome with.

A potted interpretation of the subject.

Chang

[usatrader]

How stressed are you!

A Stress test

Here's your score:

Your score is = 2

Scores of 1-6 Few Hassles

Scores of 7-12 Pretty Good Control

Scores of 13-17 Danger Zone. Watch out!

Scores of 18+ Stressed Out. You may need help.

T HA T

IS

A LL!

[Neeranam]

rebirth in another life is a hard pill for me to swallow. I'm just too logical

Seems pretty logigal to me, and more than 1/2 the world's population.

[TRIPxCORE]

Ya, I knew it would be something like this:

Here's your score:

Your score is = 15

Scores of 1-6 Few Hassles

Scores of 7-12 Pretty Good Control

Scores of 13-17 Danger Zone. Watch out!

Scores of 18+ Stressed Out. You may need help.

[AlexLah]

My score = 16

What you mean I am stressed huh?

huh huh huh? You want something?

Stressed, puh!

Alex