Thailand's PM Abhisit Clarifies British Nationality

[webfact]

PM Clarifies British Nationality

The prime minister has cited unclear legal implications as the reason for not having renounced his British citizenship after the red-shirt group has brought on the controversial issue.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva admitted to having not renounced his British nationality because he is uncertain about the legal procedures and implications in this matter.

Abhisit said he decided to break his silence as he does not want the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship activists to accuse him of running away from allegations.

The premier said he has spoken to several lawyers and has gotten various suggestions.

He reiterated that he has been adhering to Thai law, which he claims is suffice to demonstrate his intention to hold his Thai nationality.

Regarding the red-shirt group's attempts to raise the issue to make a case against him to the World Court, the prime minister said he would leave it to the judges there to decide.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-28

[asiawatcher]

You would have to be deaf, dumb, blind and stupid not to recognise "intent" as he is the PM after all. His nationality and loyalty is undoubted. So what hat now Kwai Daeng? What other rubbish are you going to bring up?

[eagleflyinghigh]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

[Jirapa]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

[Arkady]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

This is not true. They have an option but not the obligation to renounce Thai nationality at 20, not 21.

[jdinasia]

Countries have different practices regarding citizenship. An American can only lose his citizenship in some very concrete ways ie: renouncing it publicly to an official (and holding citizenship of another country), or working for a foreign government at a policy-making level.

The UK has different "levels" of citizenship (levels for want of a better word .. perhaps classifications would be more accurate) ... thus making things more complicated.

[Soutpeel]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

And what happens at 21 if they dont choose ?.....plenty of dual nationals in Thailand holding Thai/other passports.....do the Thai goverment revoke the passport/citizenship of Thai nationals ?.....No they dont

In the UK its not a case of not caring about Thai rules, Thai rules dont apply in the UK....in the UK you can hold dual nationality or as many other nationalities as you want, it is recognised under law

[Wellington]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

Abhisit is an undoubted good guy;

Being half English is a bonus.

[Soutpeel]

The UK has different "levels" of citizenship (levels for want of a better word .. perhaps classifications would be more accurate) ... thus making things more complicated.

understand what you are saying.....but a citizen is a citizen....ie the right to unhindered abode in the UK, holding a full British P/P, recourse to publis funds etc

[Soutpeel]

Abhisit is an undoubted good guy;

Being half English is a bonus.

Newcastle is not in England.....

[Arkady]

The Mirror claims that Abhisit previously held a British passport but allowed it to expire without getting a new one.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/most-popular/2011/02/26/thailand-prime-minister-is-actually-a-geordie-called-mark-115875-22951732/

Despite the The Mirror's gutter tabloid status I am inclined to believe this, as I can't imagine why anyone would go through the hassle of getting study visas for 10 years when he was British anyway. I am not sure about their photo of Mark though!!

It's about time Thailand joined the global trend and came out and made dual nationality clearly legal, rather than leave it in the current situation where it is not specifically legal or illegal. Even countries like Vietnam and Kenya have recently declared dual nationality legal because they don't want to cut people off from their homeland when they live abroad or prevent new immigrants from getting nationality. Migrants can contribute to the home country by investing and coming back to retire there and new immigrants can also contribute more with full rights. It is a win win situation but unfortunately ugly nationalist and racist sentiments will probably prevent that from happening in Thailand where they like to leave the law unclear and open to varying interpretations on a case by case basis.

[jdinasia]

The UK has different "levels" of citizenship (levels for want of a better word .. perhaps classifications would be more accurate) ... thus making things more complicated.

understand what you are saying.....but a citizen is a citizen....ie the right to unhindered abode in the UK, holding a full British P/P, recourse to publis funds etc

I also get what you are saying, but until I started doing some advanced research on the topic I would have assumed that if one only used a Thai passport with visas, paid international tuition etc ... said person might have been showing the fact that they assumed their status was really that of just a Thai, regardless of possible entitlements.

For me the clincher is ... did he ever VOTE in the UK?

Abhisit isn't 1/2 English, though he does appear to be able to claim the rights of a UK citizen.

[SICHONSTEVE]

What of Thaksin Shinawatra!!! He had his Thai passport revoked in 2009 after fleeing the country, deciding that he was not intent on serving his 2 year prison sentence (given in his abstentia). His citizenship now - Montenegrin so he doesn't possess a Thai passport and he has renounced his Thai citizenship. He has a criminal record and is on the run with numerous accusations made of him relating to inciting terrorism and assorted scandals, fraud, corruption and with Amnesty International criticising his human right's record.

Now compare this with Abhisit, he has turned the country around in very difficult times, doesn't have a criminal record or any accusations of fraud or corruption hanging over his head presently. Just a minor technical complication relating to his nationality because he just happened to be born and educated in England- come on!!! what is all this garbage about Abhisit's unsuitability for being the prime minister of Thailand.

Grow up "red shirts"!!!! and prepare to be trounced in the elections - exactly what you deserve!!!!!

[Arkady]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

And what happens at 21 if they dont choose ?.....plenty of dual nationals in Thailand holding Thai/other passports.....do the Thai goverment revoke the passport/citizenship of Thai nationals ?.....No they dont

In the UK its not a case of not caring about Thai rules, Thai rules dont apply in the UK....in the UK you can hold dual nationality or as many other nationalities as you want, it is recognised under law

Nothing happens in Thailand if they don't choose but there may be ramifications if the other nationality is one that specifically prohibits dual nationality and polices it like Singapore or Malaysia.

The current 1965 Nationality Act was actually amended in February 1992 and among other things made it crystal clear that, if they chose Thai nationality, after reaching 21 years of age they must not continue to hold another nationality from that point. However, a mere three weeks later another Nationality Act came out with the sole purpose of deleting the offending words that said they must hold only one nationality after 21, leaving the provision as only an option and effectively redundant. I leave it to your own imagination and research as to who might have lobbied to have this explicit prohibition against dual nationality for adult look krung removed and why.

[samran]

The UK has different "levels" of citizenship (levels for want of a better word .. perhaps classifications would be more accurate) ... thus making things more complicated.

understand what you are saying.....but a citizen is a citizen....ie the right to unhindered abode in the UK, holding a full British P/P, recourse to publis funds etc

I also get what you are saying, but until I started doing some advanced research on the topic I would have assumed that if one only used a Thai passport with visas, paid international tuition etc ... said person might have been showing the fact that they assumed their status was really that of just a Thai, regardless of possible entitlements.

For me the clincher is ... did he ever VOTE in the UK?

Abhisit isn't 1/2 English, though he does appear to be able to claim the rights of a UK citizen.

Why is it a clincher? I've voted in UK elections. I did so as an Australian citizen. All Commonwealth and Irish nationals are allowed to vote in the UK, run for parliament and work in the civil service. Voting proves nothing. It didn't make me British, nor did it make me less Australian. Nor, as a Thai passport holder, did it do anything to my Thai nationality. It was simply a right I could and did excercise.

In terms of what he is, he is British, unequivocally.

Most other British here never 'claimed' or 'applied' British nationality when they were born in the UK. They simply 'were' British, with all the rights that came with it.

Abhisit was British the second he was born. And the second he was born, he utilized his right to be in the UK without immigration controls, and stay there at his leisure. Sure, he was a 1 day old, but he sure as heck was as British as the baby in the next crib at that hospital on that day, excersising exactly the same rights.

He has already claimed those rights, albeit, inadvertantly.

Edited February 28, 2011 by samran

[Jirapa]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

This is not true. They have an option but not the obligation to renounce Thai nationality at 20, not 21.

They can choose Thai nationality but they're supposed to renounce any foreign nationality. I wasn't talking about renouncing Thai nationality!

[stepenwolf1958]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

Abhisit is an undoubted good guy;

Being half English is a bonus.

Yes, he is well educated and have a good appearance and he has no stains in his background so he is rare bird among the politicians in Thailand.

But, to be half English could be a minus in politics here.

Moreover, Thailand don't recognize dual citizenship, if i don't wrong.

Next, for positions in Parliament, to have a position as SO SO or SO JO, it is not allowed to anyone who is having citizenship of any other country.

Consequently, should to be the same for position of PM.

But, who knows does he have Thai passport or he have British passport or he have dual citizenship?

[Jirapa]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

Abhisit is an undoubted good guy;

Being half English is a bonus.

Yes, he is well educated and have a good appearance and he has no stains in his background so he is rare bird among the politicians in Thailand.

But, to be half English could be a minus in politics here.

Moreover, Thailand don't recognize dual citizenship, if i don't wrong.

Next, for positions in Parliament, to have a position as SO SO or SO JO, it is not allowed to anyone who is having citizenship of any other country.

Consequently, should to be the same for position of PM.

But, who knows does he have Thai passport or he have British passport or he have dual citizenship?

No stains? His government shot 90 protesting Thai civilians dead in BKK not so long ago and hospitalised god knows how many. In most of the western world he'd have been sacked and prosecuted for it.

[rotary]

And the USA charges $450 to renounce citizenship, I saw it at one of the Embassy in the middle east posted in the price list....

Countries have different practices regarding citizenship. An American can only lose his citizenship in some very concrete ways ie: renouncing it publicly to an official (and holding citizenship of another country), or working for a foreign government at a policy-making level.

The UK has different "levels" of citizenship (levels for want of a better word .. perhaps classifications would be more accurate) ... thus making things more complicated.

[samran]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

This is not true. They have an option but not the obligation to renounce Thai nationality at 20, not 21.

They can choose Thai nationality but they're supposed to renounce any foreign nationality. I wasn't talking about renouncing Thai nationality!

Go back and read the law. I have, many times, as a Thai dual national born to a foreign parent.

You are not 'supposed' to renounce foreign nationality. There isn't even any text on the law which references the need for one to formally renounce foreign nationality.

Secondly, the text of the law only provides an option, and there is no penalty of no choice is made between ages 20 and 21.

[thaihome]

Yes, he is well educated and have a good appearance and he has no stains in his background so he is rare bird among the politicians in Thailand.

But, to be half English could be a minus in politics here.

Moreover, Thailand don't recognize dual citizenship, if i don't wrong.

Next, for positions in Parliament, to have a position as SO SO or SO JO, it is not allowed to anyone who is having citizenship of any other country.

Consequently, should to be the same for position of PM.

But, who knows does he have Thai passport or he have British passport or he have dual citizenship?

He is not "half English", both his parents are 100% Thai which makes him 100% Thai. He hold UK citizenship by virtue of the date and location of his birth and has stated that. He does not hold a UK passport as he has said he must get a visa before he enters the UK. If he did have one when he was studying in the UK some 30 years ago he has let it expire at this point.

TH

[bkk_mike]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

Point 1: The issue isn't that he is a dual national. The issue is that his 2nd nationality is from a country that's ratified the International Criminal Court (unlike Thailand), and they're trying to argue that that means he could be brought before it. To be honest, that's a question for the lawyers, and would be irrelevant anyway while he's in Thailand as Thailand doesn't recognise the ICC.

Point 2: You have the option of revoking your Thai nationality at 20 (which would allow you, for instance, to avoid National Service), but unless the other country doesn't allow dual nationality for it's adult citizens there's no obligation to give up either nationality. (I'm not saying there aren't reasons for giving up other nationalities - i.e. Tax if you're a US national, National Service for other nationalities, etc. - but for the UK, there's no reason to give it up.

Point 3: If Abhisit had a UK passport (EVER), and hasn't renounced his UK nationality, I believe he's supposed to use that passport when entering/leaving the UK (under UK rules). i.e. He might not be breaking any Thai laws, but if he's entered the UK on a Thai passport after being issued a UK one, he almost certainly is breaking a UK immigration rule... (unless it's not illegal as a perk of having a diplomatic passport).

[hyperdimension]

No stains? His government shot 90 protesting Thai civilians dead in BKK not so long ago

That is incorrect. Some of the deaths were soldiers possibly killed by armed protesters. If you are going to spread such misinformation, at least do it in the appropriate thread to keep the discussion in this thread on-topic.

[Soutpeel]

but if he's entered the UK on a Thai passport after being issued a UK one, he almost certainly is breaking a UK immigration rule... (unless it's not illegal as a perk of having a diplomatic passport).

Are you sure about that ?...

[chopsticks]

Point of (new world) order:

Abhisit was/is a Rhode's Scholar.

[hyperdimension]

Point of (new world) order:

Abhisit was/is a Rhode's Scholar.

Rhodes Scholarship

Known as the "world's oldest and most prestigious international graduate scholarship"

Rhodes scholars have left Oxford with virtually any job available to them

Yet he chose to be a Thai politician.

Edited February 28, 2011 by hyperdimension

[sunholidaysun1]

Has he got a visa ?

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Has he got a visa ?

It is very smart to have more than one citizenship. I don't see what the fuss is about.

[whybother]

...

Point 3: If Abhisit had a UK passport (EVER), and hasn't renounced his UK nationality, I believe he's supposed to use that passport when entering/leaving the UK (under UK rules). i.e. He might not be breaking any Thai laws, but if he's entered the UK on a Thai passport after being issued a UK one, he almost certainly is breaking a UK immigration rule... (unless it's not illegal as a perk of having a diplomatic passport).

IF Abhisit has a diplomatic passport (which I don't believe PMs get), he would have only had it for 2 years. The previous 40 or so, he would have only had a normal (Thai) passport.

Only one report (the UK Mirror - with an incorrect photo of Abhisit) has said he had a British passport.

Not even Amsterdam has said he had a British passport, so you can be pretty sure that he didn't.

[AZBill]

I find it hilarious that Thailand has a farang PM! The fact that he returned to Thailand doesn't erase the fact that he is a westerner and British citizen since birth, lived there and was educated there with Western values. If you doubt this just see his behavior when he is in the West for a political visit. He fits right in. It's not like his parents were just on vacation when he was born there, or serving overseas in the military. He certainly could have never been President of the US under his current circumstances. That was what the big stink about Obama was over and whether he was actually a US citizen and eligible to be President. The former Governor of California, Arnold Swhartznegger has been in the US forever and considers himself an American and has served as Governor to the most populated state in the US, but he can never run for President because of his Austrian citizenship. Abhisit is what he is - a farang! The irony here is just soooooo funny. Only in Thailand!