Thailand's PM Abhisit Clarifies British Nationality

[whybother]

I find it hilarious that Thailand has a farang PM! The fact that he returned to Thailand doesn't erase the fact that he is a westerner and British citizen since birth, lived there and was educated there with Western values. If you doubt this just see his behavior when he is in the West for a political visit. He fits right in. It's not like his parents were just on vacation when he was born there, or serving overseas in the military. He certainly could have never been President of the US under his current circumstances. That was what the big stink about Obama was over and whether he was actually a US citizen and eligible to be President. The former Governor of California, Arnold Swhartznegger has been in the US forever and considers himself an American and has served as Governor to the most populated state in the US, but he can never run for President because of his Austrian citizenship. Abhisit is what he is - a farang! The irony here is just soooooo funny. Only in Thailand!

He is as much Thai (and clearly more) as he is British. He was born Thai, to Thai parents and has been a Thai citizen since birth. He has been living in Thailand for well over half is life. He has never claimed British citizenship, and only has it by chance. He is not a farang.

[mca]

(the UK Mirror - with an incorrect photo of Abhisit)

I have already informed The Mirror about their error and was pleased to provide them with a correct photo of the Thai Prime Minister proudly displaying the evidence of his nationality at birth..

[yellow1red1]

Yes, he is well educated and have a good appearance and he has no stains in his background so he is rare bird among the politicians in Thailand.

But, to be half English could be a minus in politics here.

Moreover, Thailand don't recognize dual citizenship, if i don't wrong.

Next, for positions in Parliament, to have a position as SO SO or SO JO, it is not allowed to anyone who is having citizenship of any other country.

Consequently, should to be the same for position of PM.

But, who knows does he have Thai passport or he have British passport or he have dual citizenship?

He is not "half English", both his parents are 100% Thai which makes him 100% Thai. He hold UK citizenship by virtue of the date and location of his birth and has stated that. He does not hold a UK passport as he has said he must get a visa before he enters the UK. If he did have one when he was studying in the UK some 30 years ago he has let it expire at this point.

TH

as 100% British he could get a British Passport anytime he felt like it. As 100% Thai he is entitled to use his Thai passport, instead.

If you 100% British, Swedish, German, egs; and want to become 100% Thai you have to renounce your Home citizenship. funny that?

If you are 50% Thai born 0/S, you are still 100% Thai and you can return without denouncing the foreign citizen. funny that!

Edited February 28, 2011 by yellow1red1

[Siam Simon]

(the UK Mirror - with an incorrect photo of Abhisit)

I have already informed The Mirror about their error and was pleased to provide them with a correct photo of the Thai Prime Minister proudly displaying the evidence of his nationality at birth..

Well, I thought it was funny. But I'm just an amateur.

[witsawakorn]

Point of (new world) order:

Abhisit was/is a Rhode's Scholar.

Really? I couldn't find him on their list at http://www.rhodeshou...-list-1903-2009. Where did you get your information from?

[louse1953]

Both my wives are over 21 and have dual nationality,Thai and Ozzie.

[KKK]

What I don't get is:

A lot of Thai people in red shirts who would if they had the chance be in government are trying to say the current Thai PM is British so they can take him to the ICC which those said people as part of the Thai nation have NOT yet agreed to. Talk about double-faced. If these Thai people want to use the ICC, agree to it. Don't use some silly back door method to get want you want. Sounds like a case of "do as I say, not as I do" or "you can't buy land here but we will buy in your country". It's time to treat people as you would expect to be treated. DON"T BE SELFISH.

[ianbaggie]

What of Thaksin Shinawatra!!! He had his Thai passport revoked in 2009 after fleeing the country, deciding that he was not intent on serving his 2 year prison sentence (given in his abstentia). His citizenship now - Montenegrin so he doesn't possess a Thai passport and he has renounced his Thai citizenship. He has a criminal record and is on the run with numerous accusations made of him relating to inciting terrorism and assorted scandals, fraud, corruption and with Amnesty International criticising his human right's record.

Now compare this with Abhisit, he has turned the country around in very difficult times, doesn't have a criminal record or any accusations of fraud or corruption hanging over his head presently. Just a minor technical complication relating to his nationality because he just happened to be born and educated in England- come on!!! what is all this garbage about Abhisit's unsuitability for being the prime minister of Thailand.

Grow up "red shirts"!!!! and prepare to be trounced in the elections - exactly what you deserve!!!!!

Exactly - spot on Steve

[ianbaggie]

The UK has different "levels" of citizenship (levels for want of a better word .. perhaps classifications would be more accurate) ... thus making things more complicated.

understand what you are saying.....but a citizen is a citizen....ie the right to unhindered abode in the UK, holding a full British P/P, recourse to publis funds etc

I also get what you are saying, but until I started doing some advanced research on the topic I would have assumed that if one only used a Thai passport with visas, paid international tuition etc ... said person might have been showing the fact that they assumed their status was really that of just a Thai, regardless of possible entitlements.

For me the clincher is ... did he ever VOTE in the UK?

Abhisit isn't 1/2 English, though he does appear to be able to claim the rights of a UK citizen.

Why is it a clincher? I've voted in UK elections. I did so as an Australian citizen. All Commonwealth and Irish nationals are allowed to vote in the UK, run for parliament and work in the civil service. Voting proves nothing. It didn't make me British, nor did it make me less Australian. Nor, as a Thai passport holder, did it do anything to my Thai nationality. It was simply a right I could and did excercise.

In terms of what he is, he is British, unequivocally.

Most other British here never 'claimed' or 'applied' British nationality when they were born in the UK. They simply 'were' British, with all the rights that came with it.

Abhisit was British the second he was born. And the second he was born, he utilized his right to be in the UK without immigration controls, and stay there at his leisure. Sure, he was a 1 day old, but he sure as heck was as British as the baby in the next crib at that hospital on that day, excersising exactly the same rights.

He has already claimed those rights, albeit, inadvertantly.

I think you miss the point - the point is NOT that hes not british but that he is also Thai - thats what DUAL nationality means

[mca]

His citizenship now - Montenegrin so he doesn't possess a Thai passport and he has renounced his Thai citizenship.

Link please.

[Siripon]

His citizenship now - Montenegrin so he doesn't possess a Thai passport and he has renounced his Thai citizenship.

Link please.

The Thai government took away his passport but they cannot take away his citizenship, unfortunately. I doubt he would renounce his own citizenship.

[madjbs]

It doesn't matter if he has let his passport expire or not. As a British citizen he can apply for one at any time, having a passport or not plays no role whatsoever in determining your nationality.

People are getting confused between nationality and ethnicity. He is 100% British, even though ethnically he is Thai Chinese.

[whybother]

It doesn't matter if he has let his passport expire or not. As a British citizen he can apply for one at any time, having a passport or not plays no role whatsoever in determining your nationality.

People are getting confused between nationality and ethnicity. He is 100% British, even though ethnically he is Thai Chinese.

It seems that he's 100% Thai too. That makes him 200% of something in total.

[wintermute]

Foreign dignitaries (even if born in the U.S.) aren't eligible to hold public office in the U.S. You can't be part of two governments in any official capacity.

Similarly, if Abbhisit tried to run for office in the U.K. either country could make him renounce his citizenship.

[Lite Beer]

A post containing speculation on His Majesty The King has been removed.

[Oberkommando]

It doesn't matter if he has let his passport expire or not. As a British citizen he can apply for one at any time, having a passport or not plays no role whatsoever in determining your nationality.

People are getting confused between nationality and ethnicity. He is 100% British, even though ethnically he is Thai Chinese.

It seems that he's 100% Thai too. That makes him 200% of something in total.

How can he be 100% Thai when he was born, raised and educated in the UK?

I have been living in Thailand for about the same length of time as Abhisit and I was born, raised and educated in the UK too, however that doesn't qualify me to be Thai.

[billd766]

It doesn't matter if he has let his passport expire or not. As a British citizen he can apply for one at any time, having a passport or not plays no role whatsoever in determining your nationality.

People are getting confused between nationality and ethnicity. He is 100% British, even though ethnically he is Thai Chinese.

It seems that he's 100% Thai too. That makes him 200% of something in total.

How can he be 100% Thai when he was born, raised and educated in the UK?

I have been living in Thailand for about the same length of time as Abhisit and I was born, raised and educated in the UK too, however that doesn't qualify me to be Thai.

If one or both of your parents were Thai citizens then you would be Thai irrespective of which part of the world you were born in.

If not, then you cannot be a Thai.

What about children of military or diplomatic families of any nationality who may live in 4 or 5 different countries before they are 21?

Does that make them citizens of those countries as well?

[whybother]

How can he be 100% Thai when he was born, raised and educated in the UK?

I have been living in Thailand for about the same length of time as Abhisit and I was born, raised and educated in the UK too, however that doesn't qualify me to be Thai.

How does being born in England to Thai parents make him 100% British?

It seems he's not 100% of either, but having been born to Thai parents, having Thai citizenship, living in Thailand for more than half his life and not having any family connections in England makes him more Thai than British.

[Oberkommando]

How does being born in England to Thai parents make him 100% British?

It doesn't, but being born, raised and educated in a country will make you far more a part of that country, society and culture than one which only appeared on your parents' passports and one which you didn't really experience until you were well into your 20's.

Anyone trying to argue that because his parents are Thai he is more Thai than British really needs to think about his upbringing, his education, where he was born, where he lived, where he spent his teens and all those far more important factors.

Incredulous arguing because he has lived in Thailand since he was 25 he is more Thai. Ridiculous in fact.

[random]

How does being born in England to Thai parents make him 100% British?

It doesn't, but being born, raised and educated in a country will make you far more a part of that country, society and culture than one which only appeared on your parents' passports and one which you didn't really experience until you were well into your 20's.

Anyone trying to argue that because his parents are Thai he is more Thai than British really needs to think about his upbringing, his education, where he was born, where he lived, where he spent his teens and all those far more important factors.

Incredulous arguing because he has lived in Thailand since he was 25 he is more Thai. Ridiculous in fact.

haha, it seems like some people on here would rather explode that admit that he is a British Citizen, they just need to accept that fact, this is not spurious, it is fact, and people arguing agaisnt it on a forum will not change that one iota, as much as they wish it would.

lets just say it again so the hard of thinking can hopefully understand it, Abhisit is a British Citizen, this is FACT, this can not be changed by whinging about it on a forum or trying to argue that he is more Thai than British, I can imagine him trying to use that defence in the ICJ 'but your honour, I am more Thai than British, some people said so on a forum'

He would be laughed out of court, courts in other countries tend to stick to the facts, and the fact is, Abhisit is a British citizen, no ifs, no buts.

oktoberkomando is 100% correct, it matters not one jot how long he has lived in Thailand, or if he likes som tam, or if he can't drive properley, none of these stop him being a British citizen.

I can see some of the posters on here ripping his poster down of their walls as it sinks in

[rubl]

haha, it seems like some people on here would rather explode that admit that he is a British Citizen, they just need to accept that fact, this is not spurious, it is fact, and people arguing agaisnt it on a forum will not change that one iota, as much as they wish it would.

lets just say it again so the hard of thinking can hopefully understand it, Abhisit is a British Citizen, this is FACT, this can not be changed by whinging about it on a forum or trying to argue that he is more Thai than British, I can imagine him trying to use that defence in the ICJ 'but your honour, I am more Thai than British, some people said so on a forum'

He would be laughed out of court, courts in other countries tend to stick to the facts, and the fact is, Abhisit is a British citizen, no ifs, no buts.

oktoberkomando is 100% correct, it matters not one jot how long he has lived in Thailand, or if he likes som tam, or if he can't drive properley, none of these stop him being a British citizen.

I can see some of the posters on here ripping his poster down of their walls as it sinks in

Thailand ruled by British oppressor !

[random]

haha, it seems like some people on here would rather explode that admit that he is a British Citizen, they just need to accept that fact, this is not spurious, it is fact, and people arguing agaisnt it on a forum will not change that one iota, as much as they wish it would.

lets just say it again so the hard of thinking can hopefully understand it, Abhisit is a British Citizen, this is FACT, this can not be changed by whinging about it on a forum or trying to argue that he is more Thai than British, I can imagine him trying to use that defence in the ICJ 'but your honour, I am more Thai than British, some people said so on a forum'

He would be laughed out of court, courts in other countries tend to stick to the facts, and the fact is, Abhisit is a British citizen, no ifs, no buts.

oktoberkomando is 100% correct, it matters not one jot how long he has lived in Thailand, or if he likes som tam, or if he can't drive properley, none of these stop him being a British citizen.

I can see some of the posters on here ripping his poster down of their walls as it sinks in

Thailand ruled by British oppressor !

it won't be the first country

[Arkady]

...

Point 3: If Abhisit had a UK passport (EVER), and hasn't renounced his UK nationality, I believe he's supposed to use that passport when entering/leaving the UK (under UK rules). i.e. He might not be breaking any Thai laws, but if he's entered the UK on a Thai passport after being issued a UK one, he almost certainly is breaking a UK immigration rule... (unless it's not illegal as a perk of having a diplomatic passport).

IF Abhisit has a diplomatic passport (which I don't believe PMs get), he would have only had it for 2 years. The previous 40 or so, he would have only had a normal (Thai) passport.

Only one report (the UK Mirror - with an incorrect photo of Abhisit) has said he had a British passport.

Not even Amsterdam has said he had a British passport, so you can be pretty sure that he didn't.

Thai PMs get a diplomatic passport for life but Thai diplomatic passport holders need a visa for the UK.

It is not against UK immigration law for a UK citizen to enter Britain on a foreign passport (you are thinking about American immigration law which doesn't appply in the UK). Many do just that every day of the week and there have been articles in the Britain press about dual nationals complaining that e-borders, in its first cut, would make it inconvenient for them to enter the UK with their foreign passports. Since 2006, however, the UK will not issue a visa in the foreign passport of some one who also has a British passport. However, if Abhisit doesn't currently have a valid British passport, that would be OK, and it is absolutely OK for Brits to use passports that don't need a visa to enter the UK.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Arkady

[hyperdimension]

Point of (new world) order:

Abhisit was/is a Rhode's Scholar.

Really? I couldn't find him on their list at http://www.rhodeshou...-list-1903-2009. Where did you get your information from?

I couldn't find it either. I think if he really was a Rhodes Scholar then he would have been often referred to as one. What I found on the internet is the University of Oxford wikipedia page that contains the following paragraph:

At least thirty other international leaders have been educated at Oxford.[17] This number includes Harald V of Norway,[108] Abdullah II of Jordan,[17] three Prime Ministers of Australia (John Gorton, Malcolm Fraser and Bob Hawke),[109][110][111] two Prime Ministers of Canada (Lester B. Pearson, and John Turner),[17][112] two Prime Ministers of India (Manmohan Singh and Indira Gandhi),[17][113] four Prime Ministers of Pakistan (Liaquat Ali Khan, Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, and Benazir Bhutto),[17] S. W. R. D. Bandaranaike of Sri Lanka, Norman Washington Manley of Jamaica,[114] Eric Williams (Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago), Álvaro Uribe (Colombia's former President), Abhisit Vejjajiva (Prime Minister of Thailand) and Bill Clinton (the first President of the United States to have attended Oxford; he attended as a Rhodes Scholar).[17][115] Arthur Mutambara (Deputy Prime Minister of Zimbabwe ),was a Rhodes Scholar in 1991. The Burmese democracy activist and Nobel laureate, Aung San Suu Kyi, was a student of St. Hugh's College.[116] Including Aung San Suu Kyi, forty-seven Nobel prize-winners have studied or taught at Oxford.[17]

The part where it says "Abhisit Vejjajiva (Prime Minister of Thailand) and Bill Clinton (the first President of the United States to have attended Oxford; he attended as a Rhodes Scholar)" may have caused confusion.

[personchester]

Double nationality - a big non issue in any civilized country. Once more Thailand shows its very ugly nationalist and racist face.

P.S. : I am not a fan of Khun Abhisit, but stand for fair play.

Well if you're a ferrang and your kids are half Thai born here they have to choose the nationality they want at 21 as duel nationality officially expires here at that age. Fortunately in the UK they don't care about the Thai rules so they'll still issue passports to those children for life!

Abhisit is an undoubted good guy;

Being half English is a bonus.

He is not half English at all, he is merely the holder of a British Passport.

[KKK]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear....I shudder at the lack of clarity in this forum. People keep saying he is Thai others saying he is British, and others saying he is both. But most of them do not say in what respect he is what they say he is.

ETHNICALLY - He is Thai Chinese - both his parents are of Thai Chinese decent - he has no european blood in him and cannot claim to be British in this respect.

NATIONALITY - He is A Thai Citizen being born of parents who are both Thai citizens. He is also or could claim to be a British citizen as he was born in the UK in a period of time where anybody born in the UK (except those born of foreign diplomats) were considered British citizens.

BEHAVIOURAL - In this, and only this, respect there may be some doubt. Being born, raised and educated in Britain would have some effect upon his behavioural patterns and he could therefore be seen as British-minded. But that wouldn't stop him from being also Thai-minded as he was raised by his Thai parents and has been involved in Thai politics for about 20 years as well as attending a Thai university and being a teacher in Thailand. So perhaps in his behaviour he would be 50/50. Certainly NOT 100% in either. A mix.

So before anymore of you say Abhisit is this or that please be so kind as to say in what respect you are saying he is.

Edited March 2, 2011 by KKK

[samran]

KKK - great post and spot on.

I think people like Oberkommando are being slightly disingenuous with their comments. If he has been in Thailand as long as he claims he has, then no doubt he would have come across a cohort of Thai upper class who if not born overseas were sent overseas at very young ages and were educated there.

While they no doubt fit very well into their adopted home away from homes he'd have to admit that these people are no less Thai than the run of the mill hi-so Thai that never left the country in terms of language ability and conforming to social structures and norms. Easily gained from having a family actively plugged in to politics and business.

I think people just find it hard to believe you can be 100% thai as well as being 100% something else as well.

[KKK]

KKK - great post and spot on.

I think people like Oberkommando are being slightly disingenuous with their comments. If he has been in Thailand as long as he claims he has, then no doubt he would have come across a cohort of Thai upper class who if not born overseas were sent overseas at very young ages and were educated there.

While they no doubt fit very well into their adopted home away from homes he'd have to admit that these people are no less Thai than the run of the mill hi-so Thai that never left the country in terms of language ability and conforming to social structures and norms. Easily gained from having a family actively plugged in to politics and business.

I think people just find it hard to believe you can be 100% thai as well as being 100% something else as well.

Thanks for your support. I assume by 100% you are referring to nationality as I don't know of a way to be less than 100% of any citizenship.

I would reckon there are quite a few million dual-nationals worldwide. probably even more people of mixed-blood (not Abhisit though), and lots of folks who have lived in and can respect more than one culture. So what makes Abhisit so special that he has been singled out for attention? So what if he's PM of Thailand! He hasn't broken any law in that he's PM and possibly a dual-national. It's just that a few double-faced Thai people want to send him to the ICC and they can't do that if he is only Thai. I call those people cowards. Ratify the ICC and see how many Thai citizens could get called to answer for their crimes.

[samran]

KKK - yep, I meant both citizenship AND culturally.

[random]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear....I shudder at the lack of clarity in this forum. People keep saying he is Thai others saying he is British, and others saying he is both. But most of them do not say in what respect he is what they say he is.

ETHNICALLY - He is Thai Chinese - both his parents are of Thai Chinese decent - he has no european blood in him and cannot claim to be British in this respect.

NATIONALITY - He is A Thai Citizen being born of parents who are both Thai citizens. He is also or could claim to be a British citizen as he was born in the UK in a period of time where anybody born in the UK (except those born of foreign diplomats) were considered British citizens.

BEHAVIOURAL - In this, and only this, respect there may be some doubt. Being born, raised and educated in Britain would have some effect upon his behavioural patterns and he could therefore be seen as British-minded. But that wouldn't stop him from being also Thai-minded as he was raised by his Thai parents and has been involved in Thai politics for about 20 years as well as attending a Thai university and being a teacher in Thailand. So perhaps in his behaviour he would be 50/50. Certainly NOT 100% in either. A mix.

So before anymore of you say Abhisit is this or that please be so kind as to say in what respect you are saying he is.

He is also or could claim to be a British citizen as he was born in the UK in a period of time where anybody born in the UK (except those born of foreign diplomats) were considered British citizens.

it is not about claiming, he IS a British citizen