Norwegian Man Arrested In Pattaya For Buying Sex From 17-Year-Old Girl

[Jingthing]

There is often confusion about ages by one year in Thailand because the traditional Thai way of counting age is different than the western one. I think it goes this way, traditionally in Thailand if someone is 24 and 2 months they are seen as being in their 25th year of life, so that is 25 (but legally 24). If this is true and I think it is, consider the legal can of worms it opens for age of consent laws. Young person says I AM 18 and believes it based on their culture, by under the law, no, they are not 18, they are 17. If I've got that wrong, please correct me.

Another even more odd complication is that Thai rural people often fail to register babies birth right away, sometimes waiting a very long time. So someone who's ID may say 20 may actually be 22.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Jingthing

[endure]

Well, I think it is 18 for paid sex in Thailand. In any case, people need to respect the Thai laws even though in many countries and even many US states the age of consent is well under 18. Also, Americans and I think some other nationalities, are subject to US federal law (18) anywhere in the world in regard to age of consent.

The age of consent for paid-for sex is 18 in most countries, including Thailand, USA and the UK.

There's no age of consent specifically for prostitution in the UK. The age of consent is 16 for both heterosexual and homosexual sex.

[PattayaParent]

Well, I think it is 18 for paid sex in Thailand. In any case, people need to respect the Thai laws even though in many countries and even many US states the age of consent is well under 18. Also, Americans and I think some other nationalities, are subject to US federal law (18) anywhere in the world in regard to age of consent.

But only if it's with a relative. Jerry Lee Lewis springs to mind.

[Jingthing]

Well, I think it is 18 for paid sex in Thailand. In any case, people need to respect the Thai laws even though in many countries and even many US states the age of consent is well under 18. Also, Americans and I think some other nationalities, are subject to US federal law (18) anywhere in the world in regard to age of consent.

But only if it's with a relative. Jerry Lee Lewis springs to mind.

Not clear if you're joking, but that isn't true. The lowest now is 16. I think in the past especially in the south, it was lower than that in some states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

State laws

Each US state has its own age of consent. Currently state laws set the age of consent at 16, 17 or 18. The most common age is 16.[36]

* age of consent 16: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia

* age of consent 17: Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Texas

* age of consent 18: Arizona, California, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, North Dakota, Oregon, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Jingthing

[brewsterbudgen]

Well, I think it is 18 for paid sex in Thailand. In any case, people need to respect the Thai laws even though in many countries and even many US states the age of consent is well under 18. Also, Americans and I think some other nationalities, are subject to US federal law (18) anywhere in the world in regard to age of consent.

The age of consent for paid-for sex is 18 in most countries, including Thailand, USA and the UK.

There's no age of consent specifically for prostitution in the UK. The age of consent is 16 for both heterosexual and homosexual sex.

It's dangerously inaccurate to suggest that it would be OK to use the services of a prostitute in the UK who is aged under 18. The UK is a signatory to the Convention of the Rights of a Child, the definition of which is anyone aged under 18.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optional_Protocol_to_the_Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child_on_the_Sale_of_Children,_Child_Prostitution_and_Child_Pornography

[NanLaew]

the Norwegians passed a new law in Norway

On the global sillyness scale this certainly wins hands down.

No Darrel. What is silly is choosing to do nothing or turn a blind eye to sexual predators and their huge presence in countries with insufficient laws for the protection of minors or poor enforcement of abuse of the laws they may have. Admittedly, it's a pretty broad brush being used by the Norwegians here but there's little to counter their argument that among the group of men willing to pay for sex, there will probably include a fair few that want to violate children.

The fact that there's more underage prostitution in our chosen moral backwater makes for easy Norwegian pickings apparently.

[PattayaParent]

Well, I think it is 18 for paid sex in Thailand. In any case, people need to respect the Thai laws even though in many countries and even many US states the age of consent is well under 18. Also, Americans and I think some other nationalities, are subject to US federal law (18) anywhere in the world in regard to age of consent.

But only if it's with a relative. Jerry Lee Lewis springs to mind.

Not clear if you're joking, but that isn't true. The lowest now is 16. I think in the past especially in the south, it was lower than that in some states.

http://en.wikipedia....n_North_America

Half joking, didn't he legally marry his 13 year old first cousin in Arkansas?

[deejah]

a bit ot

many thais have told me

that they have sex for the first time

at a very young age

between 12-14

which is legal in many countries if the two (or more) are all under age

anyway for this old fart 18 is plenty young enough if not too young

what really fascinates me:

there is a certain carefree attitude in bed and about sex

compared to the west where there are many times guilt, issues, and problems

would like to see a thread about sex in thailand

maybe it is so relaxed in bed because of the Buddhist culture

not polluting the mind so much

anyone have the balls to start the topic???

[Tolley]

It wasn't that long ago that people were getting married at 13,14,15,16 and in some cultures they still do.

The age of consent is another thorny area as it differs in many countries.

What is right and what constitutes being a kiddy fiddler?

It seems on superficial evidence that the guy here is being set up and will have to pay a lot to get out of trouble.

The most popular girls in a lot of the Thai massage parlours are the 15 or 16 year old girls.

I don't see the Thais getting charged with raping a minor.

It all smacks of double standards and just another way to extort money from farangs.

It can be very hard to tell the difference between a 17 year old and a 20 year old especially as you get older yourself.

[Jingthing]

Almost all modern societies do draw the line with a number (or a bunch of numbers for different situations). Whether 18 is the correct number is extremely debatable, but the law is the law, and this is a law that is a serious one for foreigners in Thailand.

[Rumcabal]

Please allow me an attempt to reply to some of Tolley's remarks.

It wasn't that long ago that people were getting married at 13,14,15,16 and in some cultures they still do.

Yes and it wasnt that long ago that the average human lifespan was 25 years. We've moved on. Its called evolution.

The age of consent is another thorny area as it differs in many countries.

Oh its real 'thorny' all right. Especially for Pedophiles

What is right and what constitutes being a kiddy fiddler?

Well fiddling with kids would be considered a kiddy fiddler and for the record its - wrong

It seems on superficial evidence that the guy here is being set up and will have to pay a lot to get out of trouble.

Being caught naked with a naked minor in his room and a condom out is considered 'superficial evidence'. What in your brain would constitute 'reasonable evidence'?

I don't see the Thais getting charged with raping a minor.

So therefore its ok for a foreigner to rape a minor?

It all smacks of double standards and just another way to extort money from farangs.

It can be very hard to tell the difference between a 17 year old and a 20 year old especially as you get older yourself.

*Sigh* its sooo hard these days for an aging sexpat to get his jollies from a young girl. What is the world coming too? Here's a suggestion for you - Why not go for like an 'old' 24 year old?

Edited March 3, 2011 by Rumcabal

[Tolley]

Please allow me an attempt to reply to some of Tolley's remarks.

It wasn't that long ago that people were getting married at 13,14,15,16 and in some cultures they still do.

Yes and it wasnt that long ago that the average human lifespan was 25 years. We've moved on. Its called evolution.

The age of consent is another thorny area as it differs in many countries.

Oh its real 'thorny' all right. Especially for Pedophiles

What is right and what constitutes being a kiddy fiddler?

Well fiddling with kids would be considered a kiddy fiddler and for the record its - wrong

It seems on superficial evidence that the guy here is being set up and will have to pay a lot to get out of trouble.

Being caught naked with a naked minor in his room and a condom out is considered 'superficial evidence'. What in your brain would constitute 'reasonable evidence'?

I don't see the Thais getting charged with raping a minor.

So therefore its ok for a foreigner to rape a minor?

It all smacks of double standards and just another way to extort money from farangs.

It can be very hard to tell the difference between a 17 year old and a 20 year old especially as you get older yourself.

*Sigh* its sooo hard these days for an aging sexpat to get his jollies from a young girl. What is the world coming too? Here's a suggestion for you - Why not go for like an 'old' 24 year old?

Calm down and get off your high horse for a moment.

Life is not black and white as some people would like to have it.

Many people are still married before the age of 18 and many people are engaged in sexual relationships well before 18.

Further the age of consent is lower than 18 in many countries.

You can't legislate hormones.

Whilst this guys behaviour might be socially unacceptable it is rather harsh to be charged with rape if the women is willing and looks 18 ish.

That is my real point and the fact that there are thais who use this as an excuse to entrap farangs for big pay days.

[Rumcabal]

Ok here we go again

Calm down and get off your high horse for a moment.

I'm calm. If criticizing creeps like this Norwegian is considered 'on my high horse' then so be it

Life is not black and white as some people would like to have it.

Actually in 'some' instances - Life is very black and white

Many people are still married before the age of 18 and many people are engaged in sexual relationships well before 18.

Yes, and mostly to teenagers their own age. A 66 year old pervert is a different kettle of fish altogether

Further the age of consent is lower than 18 in many countries.

See my above point

You can't legislate hormones.

Actually you can and every country does. That's why there are laws against rape, incest and pedophilia.

Whilst this guys behavior might be socially unacceptable it is rather harsh to be charged with rape if the women is willing and looks 18 ish.

'Ahhh your Honor I thought she looked 18' is not a valid defense at least I hope its not in this case

That is my real point and the fact that there are thais who use this as an excuse to entrap farangs for big pay days.

Here's some free, admittedly unsolicited, advice. Leave young girls alone. Sure fire way to avoid 'entrapment'

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Another Norwegian pedophile Arrested in Pattaya

-- PATTAYA DAILY NEWS 2011-03-01

Somebody at that publication needs to urgently read up on what 'pedophile' means. (Like, find someone who owns a dictionary).

[WinnieTheKhwai]

When i first came here 21 years ago ,half the bars were staffed by girls of 16 and 17 ,and even younger ones in the out of the way bars ,then no one seemed to care. now its a big deal if someone has sex with a 17 year old ,for goodness sake she isnt a child and is working as a hooker ,by the way i am not condoning what went on 21 years ago just commenting ,personally i think a "young un" is 25 to 30.

I met girls aged 16 and 17 in a bar just yesterday.

I enjoyed that, because this marks the first occastion on which I am able to tell a bar girl that I have been in Thailand longer than she has. (Not counting Burmese and the like).

[WinnieTheKhwai]

the Norwegians passed a new law in Norway

On the global sillyness scale this certainly wins hands down.

there's little to counter their argument that among the group of men willing to pay for sex, there will probably include a fair few that want to violate children.

Similarly, there's little to counter an argument that among the group of men not willing to pay for sex, thre will probably be a fair few that want to violate children.

(But feel free to argue that there is. In which case it applies just the same to those partaking in commercial sex.)

[Rimmer]

If you are quoting another poster please quote that post in full, Do not alter it or add bits in between as this is against forum rules.

Use the reply button and post your replies under.

[Wallaby]

Ok here we go again

Calm down and get off your high horse for a moment.

I'm calm. If criticizing creeps like this Norwegian is considered 'on my high horse' then so be it

Life is not black and white as some people would like to have it.

Actually in 'some' instances - Life is very black and white

Many people are still married before the age of 18 and many people are engaged in sexual relationships well before 18.

Yes, and mostly to teenagers their own age. A 66 year old pervert is a different kettle of fish altogether

Further the age of consent is lower than 18 in many countries.

See my above point

You can't legislate hormones.

Actually you can and every country does. That's why there are laws against rape, incest and pedophilia.

Whilst this guys behavior might be socially unacceptable it is rather harsh to be charged with rape if the women is willing and looks 18 ish.

'Ahhh your Honor I thought she looked 18' is not a valid defense at least I hope its not in this case

That is my real point and the fact that there are thais who use this as an excuse to entrap farangs for big pay days.

Here's some free, admittedly unsolicited, advice. Leave young girls alone. Sure fire way to avoid 'entrapment'

You really do have an odd sense of reality. Really what you are saying is that you find it distasteful for old men to be with young women of legal age.

'Whilst this guys behavior might be socially unacceptable it is rather harsh to be charged with rape if the women is willing and looks 18 ish.

'Ahhh your Honor I thought she looked 18' is not a valid defense at least I hope its not in this case'

Well you aren't too far off the mark with that. In Oz if the girl portrays herself to be of age, and a reasonable person would think the girl was of age (ie: working in a bar where you have to be 18) then it is in fact a defence, and a good one.

I agree with Tolley, you seem to have lost the plot.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Wallaby

[Rumcabal]

You really do have an odd sense of reality. Really what you are saying is that you find it distasteful for old men to be with young women of legal age.

I agree with Tolley, you seem to have lost the plot.

I find old men buying sex from 17 year old's distasteful - yes. I would also argue that my position is in fact shared by the vast majority of people on this planet. That is why its illegal in most countries, Thailand included. This position only becomes an 'odd sense of reality' to a small subset of foreigners who have dwelled in Pattaya for so long that they are unable to distinguish fantasy from reality. These are the guys who believe they are truly 'Hunsum Man'

I dont read anywhere in Tolley's post where it is written I've lost the plot. Are we having a difficult time distinguishing between what is real and not Wallaby?

[Wallaby]

So an old 'pervert' with an 18 year old is ok?

How is Tammy Baker these days?

[Rimmer]

One post has been removed for Modifying quoted reply after a public warning not to do so

[mark45y]

You really do have an odd sense of reality. Really what you are saying is that you find it distasteful for old men to be with young women of legal age.

I agree with Tolley, you seem to have lost the plot.

I find old men buying sex from 17 year old's distasteful - yes. I would also argue that my position is in fact shared by the vast majority of people on this planet. That is why its illegal in most countries, Thailand included. This position only becomes an 'odd sense of reality' to a small subset of foreigners who have dwelled in Pattaya for so long that they are unable to distinguish fantasy from reality. These are the guys who believe they are truly 'Hunsum Man'

I dont read anywhere in Tolley's post where it is written I've lost the plot. Are we having a difficult time distinguishing between what is real and not Wallaby?

After you have been in Thailand for a while you will realize that almost no one is from Pattaya. Most bar employees come from somewhere else. They start working in smaller Thai towns at Thai bars and eventually perhaps 5% end up going to work in Pattaya. I don't think you have lost the plot. I don't see that you had it to begin with. The odd sense of reality you mention is 5% Pattaya and 95% other places in Thailand. At least the bars in Pattaya get raided on a regular basis to check for under age employees. If you are sitting in a go go and a light flashes and half the staff runs off stage and out the back door you know a raid is coming. This rarely happens anywhere else in Thailand.

[Rumcabal]

After you have been in Thailand for a while you will realize that almost no one is from Pattaya. Most bar employees come from somewhere else. They start working in smaller Thai towns at Thai bars and eventually perhaps 5% end up going to work in Pattaya. I don't think you have lost the plot. I don't see that you had it to begin with. The odd sense of reality you mention is 5% Pattaya and 95% other places in Thailand. At least the bars in Pattaya get raided on a regular basis to check for under age employees. If you are sitting in a go go and a light flashes and half the staff runs off stage and out the back door you know a raid is coming. This rarely happens anywhere else in Thailand.

I'm not quite following your logic here Marky. Are you saying that Pattaya is not as bad as other places in Thailand for underaged sex workers? Actually I'd use your above example against this line of thought. The fact is that this underage problem is so organized in Pattaya that they are almost always tipped off before a raid. Very often tipped off by the very same people carrying out the raid!! The raids are for show.

I suppose stories such as this:

Or complete horror stories such as this:

Could have happened anywhere in Thailand, right? I could give plenty more examples if I was bothered to look them up. But you get the picture.

[mark45y]

After you have been in Thailand for a while you will realize that almost no one is from Pattaya. Most bar employees come from somewhere else. They start working in smaller Thai towns at Thai bars and eventually perhaps 5% end up going to work in Pattaya. I don't think you have lost the plot. I don't see that you had it to begin with. The odd sense of reality you mention is 5% Pattaya and 95% other places in Thailand. At least the bars in Pattaya get raided on a regular basis to check for under age employees. If you are sitting in a go go and a light flashes and half the staff runs off stage and out the back door you know a raid is coming. This rarely happens anywhere else in Thailand.

I'm not quite following your logic here Marky. Are you saying that Pattaya is not as bad as other places in Thailand for underaged sex workers? Actually I'd use your above example against this line of thought. The fact is that this underage problem is so organized in Pattaya that they are almost always tipped off before a raid. Very often tipped off by the very same people carrying out the raid!! The raids are for show.

I suppose stories such as this:

Or complete horror stories such as this:

Could have happened anywhere in Thailand, right? I could give plenty more examples if I was bothered to look them up. But you get the picture.

My point is that 95% of prostitution in Thailand does not involve foreign people. Be it underage or of age the percent is still the same. Pattaya is raided on a regular basis by at least three police agencies from outside of Pattaya and they don't tip off anyone. They raid them for drugs and underage employees. Raids on bars outside of tourist areas are rare.

Underage prostitution is a problem in Thailand but 95% of the problem is outside of Pattaya.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You're both on a strange side-track.

I suppose stories such as this: http://www.thaivisa....exual-services/ Or complete horror stories such as this: http://www.thaivisa....ld-prostitutes/

Could have happened anywhere in Thailand, right?

Yes of course. And they do. The only difference is that because Pattaya is a tourist/expat resort town, you get relatively more cases involving foreigners. In addition, this makes it more likely to make an English language publication.

My point is that 95% of prostitution in Thailand does not involve foreign people. Be it underage or of age the percent is still the same. Pattaya is raided on a regular basis by at least three police agencies from outside of Pattaya and they don't tip off anyone. They raid them for drugs and underage employees. Raids on bars outside of tourist areas are rare.

No they're not. They happen anywhere in Thailand. Police outside Pattaya need tea money too, or do you think this is only a special skill that Pattaya police posess.. And you know what, it's also THEIR JOB to check for underage employees. Rather than point fingers at all kinds of places that you never visit and claim inequal justice, why not actually focus on the issue of underage workers and why this still persists.

[Rumcabal]

Underage prostitution is a problem in Thailand but 95% of the problem is outside of Pattaya.

Wholeheartedly agree with the above statement. The problem with the 5% that occurs inside Pattaya is that it is the percentage that gets the publicity, both here and abroad. This results on both a stain on Thailand's reputation and the reputation of us foreigners who live and vacation here.

Admittedly it is up to the Thai's to clean up their own reputation but at the same time I just dont understand foreigners who insist on pushing this age limit. Many have admitted on here to not being able to tell the difference between an 18 year old and a 20 year old. If thats the case - why not go for the 20 year old? If you want you can pretend inside your head she's 18 (or less). I dont understand, especially in Pattaya when there are thousands of beautiful women of legal age capable of fulfilling almost any sexual fantasy that this age limit is a boundary that some foreigners continue to try and 'push'. And if you 'push' it and get caught/grassed out/set up/whatever by the authorities then I've no sympathy for you. Thats all I was saying throughout this thread. I've no sympathy for this Norwegian.

Now that I read you post again Marky I dont actually think our positions are that different from each other. Hmmm does that mean I havent lost the plot - or does it mean you have lost the plot and are also off the deep end

[mark45y]

You're both on a strange side-track.

I suppose stories such as this: http://www.thaivisa....exual-services/ Or complete horror stories such as this: http://www.thaivisa....ld-prostitutes/

Could have happened anywhere in Thailand, right?

Yes of course. And they do. The only difference is that because Pattaya is a tourist/expat resort town, you get relatively more cases involving foreigners. In addition, this makes it more likely to make an English language publication.

My point is that 95% of prostitution in Thailand does not involve foreign people. Be it underage or of age the percent is still the same. Pattaya is raided on a regular basis by at least three police agencies from outside of Pattaya and they don't tip off anyone. They raid them for drugs and underage employees. Raids on bars outside of tourist areas are rare.

No they're not. They happen anywhere in Thailand. Police outside Pattaya need tea money too, or do you think this is only a special skill that Pattaya police posess.. And you know what, it's also THEIR JOB to check for underage employees. Rather than point fingers at all kinds of places that you never visit and claim inequal justice, why not actually focus on the issue of underage workers and why this still persists.

No Winnie you are wrong, at least in my experience. I live in town Y, it is between town X and Z. There are a total of 200,000 people living in all three towns. There are at least 100 businesses in the three towns that cater to men only, play music, you know, so on and so on. During the past 5 years the cops raided one place in town X and arrested 18 people and raided one place in town X and arrested 2 people.

I really didn't know the issue was underage workers and why this still persists. But if that is the issue I can only state that in my experience when first arriving in SEA 40 years ago it was also a problem in Taiwan and Singapore. Now I think it is not so much of a problem in Taiwan or Singapore.

I think what happened in Taiwan and Singapore is the education level was raised and more high paying jobs are offered now than were offered 40 years ago. I don't think this is rocket science. I thought everyone knew that when you have a population that is educated you will find jobs for that population. Seems pretty basic to me. Hope I answered your question.

Edited March 4, 2011 by mark45y