Group Blasts Bangkok's Super Skywalk Project

[jimbeam1]

Hopefully they print the response in terms of the cost difference.

Along with who is/was expecting to pocket it. Someone is for sure on a get rich quick mission.

jb1

[bangkokcitylimits]

The AGWA also expressed concerns that the Super Skywalk project would constitute visual pollution.

It will mainly HIDE visual pollution !

[jimbeam1]

"Anti-Global Warming Association"

Who does this organization actually represent? What is their real agenda? What do elevated walkways have to do with Global Warming?!

The elevated walkways that already exist are a fantastic way to avoid street level pollution- I look forward to their expansion.

But surely the exshaust fumes from the traffic below would rise to meet you?

jb1

[Oberkommando]

Nothing is ever done here without the corruption and the skim.

It's what it's all about, from opening a school, to providing a public service, in fact, any area of governance and funding in any way shape or form.

[WarpSpeed]

^^&^^^ Yup.... I agree with them on price but then they loose all credibility by continuing on to say that it constitutes "visual pollution" as there is nothing visually or aesthetically appealing about the current sidewalks I can assure you that.

It would be wiser for Thai's just to make a point and then be quiet as they usually shoot themselves in the foot with attempts at explaining their logic.. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" (Abraham Lincoln)....

Turns out they're so insignificant that the only significant searches that turn up about them are related to this topic .. It must be one guy on a computer posting here on Thai Visa since the argument is exactly what has been posted here..

It would also be nice if they used the current sidewalk area for legitimate bicycle and motocy paths once the sky walk is completed.. I know all the arguments about motocys and pathways but at least the pedestrians would be out of the fray..

Edited March 2, 2011 by Maestro
Added quote source.

[hyperdimension]

Why not copy the Singapore model, for instance?

I was in Singapore recently and it was such a breeze to get around the city, as the streets are so clean and clear of obstructions.

From what I have read, they took all the street vendors (or "hawkers") off the streets and put them into "food centers" (or "hawker centers"), which are basically food courts. Probably the most popular is the Newton Hawker Center near Chinatown:

Also, each stall has a hygiene grade from A to D, but I only ever saw A and B. It makes it so much easier to regulate when food vendors are in one place and not all over the place on the streets o sidewalks.

Edited March 2, 2011 by hyperdimension

[Lakegeneve]

Regarding more elevated concrete structures, it appears to me that Bkk planners always overbuild these structures by approximately 2xs -they are twice as big as need be. This is especially true for the new City Line stations - they are massively overbuilt. Of course, the contractors love this and so do the designers and engineers because they make tons of money they shouldn't be. So I expect to see the new, and massively over-built but poorly designed, sections of skywalk. They are really just for pedestrians, improvements at the street level would be best, then. But, Bkk officials just can't grasp that concept - they've abandoned the street - with encouragement from those who will profit from the design and construction.

The ARL stations, CityLine as you term them, are NOT massively overbuilt. They do have a number of shortcoming such as a lack of elevators and escalators, some of which will be rectified in the next few years. They are built to be large enough to accomodate future growth & 10 car trains which are planned to run once demand is sufficient - which is estimated to be by 2028. Already the current 3 car sets on the CityLine are insufficient for the current demand and schedule.

The size of the stations allows growth on the line. Think about the fact that already BTS Silom & Asoke stations are struggling during both peak periods. The MRT stations being larger and having half the pax cope much better , aside from Suk station, but there are similarly large to allow future growth.

I do agree with you regarding BKK officials having given up on the streetscape in most districts.

One of the main problems is that decision makers NEVR walk in BKK so they just don't know how bad it is in most places.

[mackayae]

Living easy, living free

No stop signs, speed limit

Nobody's going to slow me down

I'm on the skyway to Ploenchit

[AleG]

"Anti-Global Warming Association"

Who does this organization actually represent? What is their real agenda? What do elevated walkways have to do with Global Warming?!

The elevated walkways that already exist are a fantastic way to avoid street level pollution- I look forward to their expansion.

This project is a perfect example and metaphor for how the government and the developer elites are literally abandoning everyone else to the streets. A great way to get away from the street-level pollution? Great for whom, may I ask? Great for the politicians and developers because they become more and more inter-dependent for their money and careers. Great for the middle and upper class shoppers because they can literally "rise above" and step over the lower classes who are abandoned to the pollution and chaos on the street below. I mean, what about dealing with the pollution on the street level? Your solution is to simply create a separate place for the elites to totally avoid the masses and vendors. What's up with that? This will just create more choked, polluted streets while allowing people with money to avoid it. It also gives politicians something to congratulate themselves for while partying with their developer cronies using the public's money earned through huge and expensive public works projects.

Geez, some people...

Are you under the misguided impression that only "elites" can walk the Skywalks under the Skytrain tracks?

[ianh68]

The criticism of the walkways is misguided...I think it's a great idea, and I for one would totally utilize it...especially in the winter months, I would love being able to walk from Mo Chit to Siam Square on a walkway!! Who knows, it might make some progress in fighting growing obesity among Thais from all that KFC, haha.

And, c'mon, "spend it on sidewalks"?! Why? As an earlier poster pointed out, so motorcycles can have a smoother ride as they terrorize pedestrians? Or so even more vendors can clog the sidewalks? (actually, the ubiquitous vendors is something I *love* about Bangkok, and miss when I'm in the West...but it would be nice to have covered, elevated vendor-free walkways...)

How long do you think they will be vendor free? Have you tried the elevated walkway at Victoria Monument after dark?

[Maverell]

I would think that anything that would enable people to walk to their destination instead of taking a taxi would be beneficial to global warming. Anyone who has used the Skywalk from Siam BTS station to Chid Lom station would know how much more enjoyable that is to competing with steet vendors, beggars, motorcycles, light poles, broken tiles, phone booths, etc. The seemingly inflated cost is the only objection that bears merit, in my opinion.

One hundred percent in agreement with this ! I rarely post but this is worth it. The walkway is the best thing thats been suggested as an infrastructure improvement since the MRT.

[Crushdepth]

The AGWA yesterday questioned why the construction of the Super Skywalk would cost more than Bt300 million per kilometre.

"The elevated walkway by the Skytrain project costs just Bt58.82 million a kilometre," it pointed out.

Oops :-)

[Thaddeus]

I would think that anything that would enable people to walk to their destination instead of taking a taxi would be beneficial to global warming. Anyone who has used the Skywalk from Siam BTS station to Chid Lom station would know how much more enjoyable that is to competing with steet vendors, beggars, motorcycles, light poles, broken tiles, phone booths, etc. The seemingly inflated cost is the only objection that bears merit, in my opinion.

One hundred percent in agreement with this ! I rarely post but this is worth it. The walkway is the best thing thats been suggested as an infrastructure improvement since the MRT.

And when Bangkok sinks underwater the pedestrians can keep their feet dry.... and by then of course there will be a charge for walking.

[bangon04]

And, c'mon, "spend it on sidewalks"?! Why? As an earlier poster pointed out, so motorcycles can have a smoother ride as they terrorize pedestrians? Or so even more vendors can clog the sidewalks? (actually, the ubiquitous vendors is something I *love* about Bangkok, and miss when I'm in the West...but it would be nice to have covered, elevated vendor-free walkways...)

If only you could get a guarantee that the skywalks will indeed be vendor-free....

[bangon04]

This project is a perfect example and metaphor for how the government and the developer elites are literally abandoning everyone else to the streets. A great way to get away from the street-level pollution? Great for whom, may I ask? Great for the politicians and developers because they become more and more inter-dependent for their money and careers. Great for the middle and upper class shoppers because they can literally "rise above" and step over the lower classes who are abandoned to the pollution and chaos on the street below. I mean, what about dealing with the pollution on the street level? Your solution is to simply create a separate place for the elites to totally avoid the masses and vendors. What's up with that? This will just create more choked, polluted streets while allowing people with money to avoid it. It also gives politicians something to congratulate themselves for while partying with their developer cronies using the public's money earned through huge and expensive public works projects.

Geez, some people...

Are you under the misguided impression that only "elites" can walk the Skywalks under the Skytrain tracks?

But connecting the Skywalks to the high end department stores will make the hiso shoppers feel superior . Above the peasants.

[DP25]

And, c'mon, "spend it on sidewalks"?! Why? As an earlier poster pointed out, so motorcycles can have a smoother ride as they terrorize pedestrians? Or so even more vendors can clog the sidewalks? (actually, the ubiquitous vendors is something I *love* about Bangkok, and miss when I'm in the West...but it would be nice to have covered, elevated vendor-free walkways...)

If only you could get a guarantee that the skywalks will indeed be vendor-free....

It will be sidewalk stall style vendor free but I doubt it will be totally vendor free, they will probably have small shops that are rented out like at many BTS stations already. They would want to ensure that those shops don't have competition

Anyway this is fantastic idea, can't wait for it.

[TimeBandit2]

It seems like this AGWA has never been to Bangkok. Blighting the urban landscape...what do they think Bangkok looks like, Prague?

Despite the silliness of certain things, I like how Bangkok traffic is separated into vertical layers.

-----------Air Traffic----------------

-----------Expressway------------

-----------Elevated Highway---

-----------BTS----------------------

-----------Flyover------------------

-----------Street-------------------

-----------Car Tunnel------------

-----------MRT---------------------

----------Chamlong's House-

This adds another layer..............

As far as the project costing to much, it's pretty obvious a lot of that will swindled away.

[featography]

So, the correct question is who is pocketing 12.259 Billion of the Skywalk Project.

Most likely it will paid to the contractor who has to design the stand alone supports, arrange the construction right away, drive the piles probably some 30+ meters deep, build the scaffolding and forms, pour the concrete and install the steel structure for the parts of the skywalk that do not follow the existing BTS lines.

Most likely it will go to the snappy uniformed higher ups with all the fishing lures, Christmas tree decorations, scrambled eggs, parachutes, wings, rifles, stars and multicolor ribbons and bars jingling and jangling on their chests, shoulders and hats, who will designate who gets the contracts. We call that income, kickbacks.

The tax payers will pay, and the users (just watch) will pay again because they will install toll gates.

Would not surprise me if the planners were avid Sci Fi enthusiasts. Install aerial foot, rail transportations, attached to buildings, to keep the working class, employers, upper class dwellers safe, and keep the low lifes, criminals, rats, dogs, cats, garbage, hawkers on the street. Keep the crime and filth on the street, and the populace with money can travel safe above it all. Kinda reminds you of movies like Blade Runner, doesn't it?.

[MaiChai]

I think the money could be better used improving Bangkok. Parts of the centre should be pedestrianised, and other parts should be refurbished to improve the quality of the environment for residents and workers. Lack of planning and proritizing traffic and commerce over quality of environment. While Singapore is hardly a vibrant democracy, the BMA could learn alot from them on how to improve a city. China town is a prime example of where things have horribly gone wrong, and what other parts of Bangkok could become like.

[realfunster]

Whilst I don't think this is a totally unreasonable idea, my concern is that is merely addressing the symptoms of the problem rather than the underlying 'illness'.

It seems a diversionary approach rather than tackling the problem head on- probably because that would be too much hassle.

I guess the current administrations are undoubtedly stuck with the results of 20+ years of little or non-existent city planning and are now left to try to handle the situation as best they can but I would much rather see;

- A full analysis of what parts of central Bangkok could be reasonably pedestrianised- returning the streets to uses other than just for cars.

- Review of possible sites for a Sukhumvit hawkers/stall market thereby relocating and removing stalls off the pavement.

- Aggressive car management policies in central areas in conjuction with continued and significant investment in viable public transport alternatives.

[yesdavy]

This is nothing new and has never been a good idea and where it's been done they have for the most part recognized how ill conceived the old notion was and in the case of Cincinnati the city paid to build it and paid again to tear it down.

[AZBill]

Well it costs so much because there is a lot of graft and bribes to be paid in a project like this to be sure. She should know this. Also, no one enjoys walking the streets at issue. Shade, no motor bikes to dodge, no touters and the sidewalks are in terrible shape. I can't wait. I use the one at Chidlom all the time and avoid the street like the plague!

Edited March 2, 2011 by AZBill

[olddog]

I love the complaint that the walkways will add to visual pollution. Take away the visual pollution in Bangkok and all you'd have is a few temples in a rice field. As much as I enjoy Grung Dep, it is easily the ugliest capital city I have ever known. Most of it was built in the last thirty years, right? There are NO civic or commercial buildings of architectural worth. Such heritage and tradition that remains only remains to be bulldozed to fill the few remaining canals to provide the foundations for another brutal concrete block aping western style. There is nothing you could do to further visually pollute the city. It is an absolute nightmare to look at, from any corner, from any vantage point, from any window. It is a brutal, ugly, mess of a city made liveable by the places that provide isolation from it. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate it. I just see it for what it is, and then stop looking, because it makes my brain hurt.

Part of Bangkok's baffling charm lies in the difficulty in walking from anywhere to anywhere else. "Strolling" is an impossibility. Every pavement/sidewalk is an obstacle course, but it's what you have to dodge and duck and step over that gives the city its character. No other city has this frustrating, delightful, aggravating, tiring, exciting, dangerous, poisonous, addictive ... but immersing mix at street level. You're right in the middle of life, with all its downsides.

Walkways ... they'll fatten the usual cats, and maybe provide another level of isolation from the nature of the city. But I like to think the Great Minds of Bangkok will find some way of messing up a simple idea (like not running long enough trains on the BTS - that was a stroke of administrative brilliance that transforms a potentially brilliant infrastructure into an unpleasant experience). I like to imagine the pristine architectural renderings of western-style commuters and shoppers "strolling" from air-conditioned office to air-conditioned mall, and I like to imagine the life on the streets somehow finding its way up there, between the broken and/or ignored CCTV cameras. The hookers and the food carts and the DVD sellers cluttering up the airy perspectives ...

[thaikahuna]

So they would prefer to spend the money making sidewalks better for the motorcycles to roar along.........sensible choice !

Until someone figures out how to put another 10K street vendors up there.

[rwhoov]

I would think that anything that would enable people to walk to their destination instead of taking a taxi would be beneficial to global warming. Anyone who has used the Skywalk from Siam BTS station to Chid Lom station would know how much more enjoyable that is to competing with steet vendors, beggars, motorcycles, light poles, broken tiles, phone booths, etc. The seemingly inflated cost is the only objection that bears merit, in my opinion.

Hmm, keep in mind that the walkway will be more polluted than the street, at least where the skytrain is overhead trapping all the gasses at about a little above head level. Brilliant

I've used the present Sky Walk dozens of time, and the air quality is significantly better than at street level with all the cars and motorcycle traffic. In case you haven't noticed, both sides of the Sky Walk are completely open allowing fresh air to constantly flow through. There is absolutely no "trapping" of any gasses. There may be good reasons to oppose the expansion, but the trapping of gases is not one.

[rwhoov]

This is nothing new and has never been a good idea and where it's been done they have for the most part recognized how ill conceived the old notion was and in the case of Cincinnati the city paid to build it and paid again to tear it down.

Could you be more specific on the Cincinnati situation? I've googled a dozen times trying to find any mention of an elevated sidewalk in Cincinnati and have failed to find anything. If you could post a web site I'd like to read about it.

Also, for those who have never walked the present Sky Walk, it is completely free of vendors and/or beggars. They seem to be enforcing the ban. There was on short stretch which utilized a pedestrian cross over of a street that existed earlier which some vendors and beggars used since it wasn't officially a part of the Sky Walk, but they've been pushed out, too.

[Jawnie]

I would think that anything that would enable people to walk to their destination instead of taking a taxi would be beneficial to global warming. Anyone who has used the Skywalk from Siam BTS station to Chid Lom station would know how much more enjoyable that is to competing with steet vendors, beggars, motorcycles, light poles, broken tiles, phone booths, etc. The seemingly inflated cost is the only objection that bears merit, in my opinion.

Hmm, keep in mind that the walkway will be more polluted than the street, at least where the skytrain is overhead trapping all the gasses at about a little above head level. Brilliant

I've used the present Sky Walk dozens of time, and the air quality is significantly better than at street level with all the cars and motorcycle traffic. In case you haven't noticed, both sides of the Sky Walk are completely open allowing fresh air to constantly flow through. There is absolutely no "trapping" of any gasses. There may be good reasons to oppose the expansion, but the trapping of gases is not one.

Without any scientific evidence to support your claim of "no trapped gasses", that is just a conclusion reached solely by your nose. I'd say just the opposite, based on my nose. The area quality on the sky walks is bad, also, just not as bad as on the sidewalk directly below. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that my nose is more correct than yours if anybody bothers to check air quality in these areas.

As a matter of fact, air quality checks and comparisons should be included as studies before the new sky walks are built. Air quality should be checked on the street level, on the existing sky walks, and in areas of street where the sky walks are proposed. Care to wager?

Edited March 4, 2011 by Jawnie

[Macmundi]

300 mil. per kilometre is definitely over-inflated. I can easily build it for less than 50 mil per kilometre ( Unless I have to pay someone to let me win the bid.) How dare they even speak it out?! Isn't it so obvious that there is a massive corruption scheme happening here??