Do You Think The Russification Of Pattaya Is A Good Thing Or Not?

[Jingthing]

JING....Quote, subtle reserved smiles of course and also kind of like, this is our place now, we've claimed it. you wrote, mate its all in your mind, they are tourists just like any other, a few Russian language signs about and they are taking over, what rubbish.

Thailand has realised there are more tourists than just single men and are trying to encourage them that's why Jomtien has many because is more family friendly and nicer beaches, they are not taking over just because there are a few Russian bars/Restaurants.

All in my mind, eh? My opinion is as valid as anyone's and I never said they were in actually taking the place over. It's still Thailand and almost all of us are here on some kind of short leash ...

BTW, this guy originally from Russia said a similar thing to my perception.

So if a Western tourist may not think much about the Russian restaurant 'Our Russia' on the top floor of the new Central Pattaya beach shopping centre, to Russians in symbolizes another small victory in Russian expansion in the world.

Also I think anyone reading all my posts here, including Russian people, would tend to conclude I have a balanced view of this, and am certainly not Russophobic. After all, all of my grandparents spoke Russkie ...

Edited March 6, 2011 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

Several derogatory and ridiculous remarks have been deleted. Keep this civil or posting holidays will start to be given out.

Posters arguing for either side of this topic are welcome, as long as they abide by forum rules. Be nice!!!

[Langsuan Man]

My biggest fear, as echoed by one poster, is the inevitable influx of the Russian Mafia into all aspects of life here in Pattaya

There is enough police corruption here we surely don't need the influx of another secret hand

It amazes me to go to Walking Street and see the hostesses and dancers openly working in the night life industry and Immigration is obviously not concerned, yet the BIB continue to raid and piss test bars all over the place, with the Russian establishments obviously off limits

There have been numerous reports of Russians ignoring police directions by either confrontation or just being obtuse, and I am sure that the word has already spread within the Russian community, that there appears to be no downside in ignoring the police

For those who try and bring up the previous influx of other foreigners (German, English, American, etc.) as being no different I beg to differ, those groups did not try and ghetto Pattaya

[StasD]

I do not remember exactly but now there are about 2000 (a lot of pedophiles) westerners in Thai prisons and maybe 10 Russians.

[Jingthing]

I do not remember exactly but now there are about 2000 (a lot of pedophiles) westerners in Thai prisons and maybe 10 Russians.

Link please? In any case, even if you can prove those numbers, it doesn't prove much. Why? What are westerners exactly? That includes A LOT of nations. Russia is one nation. If you are seriously making the case that Russian pedo crimes in Thailand are rare, which may indeed be the case, then you would have to present statistics like this:

Finland, 100,000 annual tourists, 20 pedos in Thai prison

Spain, 200,000 annual tourists, 15 pedos in Thai prison

Russian, 500,000 annual tourists, 10 pedos in Thai prison

From that I hope it is very clear now how that little bomb of an implication (Russians are almost all clean, "westerners" more likely to be pedo scum) doesn't exactly cut the borscht as fact.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[Card]

If I am not mistaken, these folks are not really "Russians", but are from the former Soviet Union countries...Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, etc. I live near the Ambassador....which is a hot bed for these packaged tourists. I've chatted up a few, but most are pretty unfriendly...and don't speak English.

I've had 2 bad encounters in Pattaya...both were with "Russians". Both were quite drunk.

I doubt this is true. Firstly, I think all the flights come from Moscow - mainly via Thai Airways which I believe has a monopoly - hence visa-free. OK they could fly from Tajikiuzbekikyrgystani but why fly all the way to Moscow then to Bangkok?

Secondly, the Russians seem to be mainly light skinned and often blonde hair. I must say the blonde Russian girls are second only to the Swedes for beauty, especially in their skimpy see-throughs (sorry, I'm getting carried away).

Thirdly, the former Russian republics are mainly Muslim and so not likely to drink so much if at all I guess (even in skimpy see-throughs - aaagh there I go again)..

I think it's a case of the European Russians just blaming foreigners or peoples they don't like.

Anyway, the Ruskis beat the Germans. Coming to think of it, most people beat the Germans - Stalingrad, Normandy, N. Africa etc. Except the wee French, of course, but they eat a lot of quiche. Oh and the poor Italians didn't have a clue.......

[crazyawm]

ups. pls delete this

Edited March 7, 2011 by crazyawm

[crazyawm]

oh it's russians, so bad, but in prisons only europeans and USA

and yes, so lot people stupid, they think if man can speack russian language - he russians

ex-USSR had 15 republic, all peoples from it's republic can speak russian language, but only one republic - Russia

if some one dont use school program world history and geography - it's problem only it's man

i think thai people verry happy when russians tourist arrive to Thai becouse they rich and can pay money, if some one say about russians tourists who dont have big money - hey, guys, tourist from your country all have money? yes? may be you remember, backpacker's (wow! we can live only $10 in month in every country! wow!) birth's in europe

for russians backpackers european backpackers only example

Russia have so lot backpackers? but guys, in Russia live more 140.000.000 peoples, or again some one dont know about this? go learn to school

and yes

someone say about: russians people's very lot drink and after sing song's very loudly... i dont know... may be its not good...

but esterday i come back from Pai and in Pai i've seen in Pai career 4 British tourist (i ask: hey guys, where you from?)

in Pai career made staircase with wooden handrail that people clung to the railing when going up the stairs. These 4 ran on the rails leaving them traces of their dirty shoes. They were sober. What will happen when they're drunk? They are to shit on the bus stops, I think. A Russian just sing songs, and sometimes swear. One Frenchman recently in Chiang Mai, after drinking vodka, climbed onto the bar and started dancing on it. Then he jumped up and down with a bar on the floor face down.

The majority of Russian is not cultural. But people of other nationalities are not better.

i think your understand my english

PTT - Russian city! Hands off the PTT, foreign! hahaha :lol:

Edited March 7, 2011 by Rimmer
Profanity and Racist

[crazyawm]

very good, peoples ask about stats, i find its stats and posting, and what? good forum

[Jingthing]

This is getting more entertaining. I am nervous now. What do you think about Vietnamese Vodka?

[StasD]

Finland, 100,000 annual tourists, 20 pedos in Thai prison

Spain, 200,000 annual tourists, 15 pedos in Thai prison

Russian, 500,000 annual tourists, 10 pedos in Thai prison

O! you see! The percentage of Russians are much less than the others! Even if I doubt in your info. I have listened Russia honorary council about prison's statistic recently. The figures shocked me- only a few Russians in prisons here, I have not expected:).

So who is better for you - either drunk and noisy Russian or polite and quiet Western's pedophile ? Tomorrow there will be a lot of Chineses? what will you do? make a new vote? Result? To flatter your smarting vanity that you are not alone in your phobia? haha

Irishman pissed on BTS station http://www.thaivisa....63#entry4210263 and what, we start to think that all the people from Ireland are the same?

So i would like to give you some pieces of advices:

1. Eat something and drink a little bit alcohol

2. Take a girl (or boy if you are gay)

3. have a fun with her/him

because today is russification, tomorrow will be arabication, the day after tomorrow... Life is not easy, really, if you cannot relax you will have problem with your health

As for me I would like say "Thank you very much" to the westerners who brought here the best sides of western culture.

Edited March 7, 2011 by StasD

[Rimmer]

Two posts removed from view. Profanity, racist rant and discussion of moderation .

You will be hearing from me.

Oh and if the tone of this thread does not improve I will close it,

[tropo]

Spot on Jingthing. I too regularly take the sardine special baht bus to Jomtien from south pattaya. Over the past year i have witnessed hoards of Russians taking this trip. As soon as the baht bus reverses into position to load the waiting passengers, the russians barge through, never mind the people who have been waiting in line, Thai or westerners, pushing and shoving everybody out of the way. They do indeed seem to have formed the opinion that this is their town now, and the rest of us have to put up with their ignorant and boorish behaviour. I have witnessed them elbowing elderly thai ladies out of the way, putting bags on seats to "reserve" them for their friends who are on their way. I presume this is the normal behaviour in Russia, as they give the impression that this is the correct way to behave. The women are worse than the men, if that is possible. And believe me, when you are sat squashed up next to them their personal hygiene leaves a lot to be desired. I have seen more than one altercation between a russian and a driver over this, but they just growl and carry on regardless. But apparantly these are the new "quality" tourists the powers that be here in pattaya are targeting. A few years down the line they will live to regret it. Just about every restaurant / bar owner or shopkeeper you talk to has a horror story to tell about these people. Several times a day. But i am afraid it is now too late, too many of them are flocking here, the damage is already done. I notice from reading the Phuket and Koh Samui forums that they are gaining a foothold there too, with the same complaints from other tourists and expats. Russian"entrepeneurs" are already opening go go bars, nightclubs etc on walking street, staffed by eastern europeans, with what seems to be total impunity of the work permit laws. Money number one i guess. But the day will come, a few years down the line, when the decent people here, thai and farang, will regret handing over large swathes of the tourist industries to these people. But of course, by then, the "powers that be", who have given the green light to this, will be nowhere to be seen. They will be sitting back, spending more time with their bank accounts.

"Damage already done"? Are you serious? I've just moved into Cosy Beach which is nearly a Russian enclave. They don't bother me at all. I would prefer them to a bunch of drunken Englishmen or Australians.

Edited March 7, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

please post a headline when you hear or see any of them having a good time !!!!!

You must walk around with your eyes closed. I see them having a good time everyday. They seem to have a lot more fun than the guys stuck to beer bar stools.

[dananderson]

I give credit to to the Russians for not getting into fights with others after drinking. The same can not be said about some of their EU counterparts. They should tip more but how else will they intellingtly integrate without traveling? Obviously the web but learning is a slow process regardless.

[denismsk]

so - the poll itself is good, but the comments...

well, you will never find any thread like this on the Russian forums about Western people - it's "hard to believe", but it doesn't matter for any Russian if Pattaya/Antalya/Mallorca/any other tourist place is "taken over" by westerners, though, for example, i could create at least one thread to discuss something like:

- when i got a regular baht-bus, the drunk dutch company stopped it and took as a taxi, so i had to take another one

- when my pregnant wife were in the baht-bus - the drunk norwegian smoked near her, and tried to fight with another people, when they told him to stop smoking

- or when 2 young ladies, who came here on holiday, has been fighted by sweden old man, because they asked him to shut up, as he shouted on them, that they are prostitues

or any other story like that. but i also know a lot of good norwegians, swedens, british, etc. and i don't see any reason to think about virtual 'Norwegian' as i think about the virtual bastard.

and it doesn't matter for me what any westerner buy/do/etc, as well, as what they think about the 'virtual Russian' - it's much more interesting what he think about me.

[cobra]

I've said it before,

Never met a Russian I didn't like or one that I could beat in chess.

Most had an impressive skill set, even the women were smart and probably forgotten more in most subjects then I could remember in most subjects.

Pattaya could do worse.

[raro]

One way to keep out the Russians, as well as a lot of the Europeans, is to pass a law that says nobody who weighs over 200lbs/80kilos is allowed to wear a skimpy "speedo" during daylight hours. I spent three days at a hotel up in NaKlua last year, with mostly Russians and Germans. The number of pot-bellied old men (and a significant number of women) who strutted around with their belly overhanging whatever they may have been wearing underneath was shocking and offensive, and I am not easily offended. I could not sit out by the pool. Let's get a law passed, and get the someone (who?)to enforce it, and the problem would be solved.

if there is a good thing to say about Russians is that they do not bow to the North American no-speedos-policy. Take this from the German on the board.

[Phil Conners]

^

[submaniac]

Russians really aren't that bad. They do have a habit of not waiting and jumping ahead in the lines, and that is what I find most irritating. Otherwise, when you get to know them they have their good points and bad points, as do all people on this earth. I think they are not getting a fair shake in regards to comments that they are rude. Alot of it could be accounted by the fact that most aren't very proficient in English. Let's face it, if you don't understand the language (or customs) you're not going to say much and keep to yourself or others that speak your language. Alot of you are taking it as rude, when it's not meant to be.

I also find it amusing that this thread exists. The part I find funny is that Thailand (for most of the posters at least) isn't your country to decide who can come or not. The Thai government apparently wants Russians to come. The Thai government even entered into a treaty with Russia to make it easy for Russian nationals to enter the country. The Thais in Pattaya are putting up signs on their businesses in Russians.

I guess if you don't like it you can write to your representative in parliament, and vote to change the laws....

....oh yeah, you guys can't vote in Thailand. Nevermind.

[Jingthing]

Russians really aren't that bad.

...

If you put a bit of a spin on the poll results so far, the public here doesn't think they are "that bad" either. By adding the percentages of the goods plus neutral, you can say about half the voters don't think the Russian demographic bubble is overall a bad thing. Keep in mind that any rapid dramatic increase in any demographic will change any place, by Russians or any other group.

As far as signage, it would be unreasonable to object to translations into Russian of existing signs that are also in Thai, English, etc. However, there are indeed more signs on businesses that are Russian only, and imagine if that increased dramatically, other groups may indeed start to feel unwelcome. You could say the same thing perhaps about non-Thai, non-English speakers, but I think it is fair to say that English is the international language of business and tourism, so English signage isn't exactly a sign of American or Brit demographic dominance.

The Russian language isn't going to replace English as the international language, and neither is a variant of Chinese.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[denismsk]

quick fact - http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/worldlang.htm - 480 Million of English speakers, and 285 Million of Russian speakers. second fact - Russian along with the Chinese, Arabic, etc is the official UN language. so, if for the some group of people English is an international language - for another group it's a language from some country. de-facto in lots of countries (west africa, some french colonies in the indian ocean) the international language is French, in Italy most of the people even in the touristic areas don't speak any English as well, Latin America - Spanish is number 1. and a lot of Russian-speakers don't speak any English as well, so that's why the business owners oriented on them, and offer them services on the language they understand, because they feel themselves unwelcome in the English speaking places.

so, as long as the thousands of the English-only signs/menu/services in Pattaya is okay - why then Russian/Arabic/Chinese/French/German-only services will be Russification/Arabication/etc?

peace.

[Jingthing]

I already explained why. That ENGLISH if the international language of commerce and tourism is a clear FACT. It doesn't matter if more people in the world speak a form of Chinese than English -- they are mostly in China or part of the Chinese diaspora.

I am not objecting at all to a business serving incoming Russian tour needs is an all Russian business. On the other hand, I was very annoyed the other day when a Russian restaurant not only stated they won't ever have an English menu, but refused to even try to tell me about they food they offered (given the person telling me this was speaking clear English). Hopefully this is not a trend, and I am not singling out Russians, I have had even worse experiences, most dramatically at a Korean restaurant where I was rudely ordered to GO AWAY. I applaud the effort many places are making now to offer Russian translations; the Russians are here, why not fully serve and welcome them? Of course.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[denismsk]

proof of the fact please? for you - may be. for millions of people - may be not. in Pattaya de-facto Russian is a second international language both of commerce and tourism for example.

[Jingthing]

proof of the fact please? for you - may be. for millions of people - may be not. in Pattaya de-facto Russian is a second international language both of commerce and tourism for example.

Egads, I am not saying everyone speaks English, I am saying it is the international language of convenience. Everyday in town you will hear a German talking to a Spaniard in English. Or a Chinese to a Thai. It is a fact if you would open your ears. I'm not really interested in further communication with you on this matter; I find talking to people who insist on denying the undeniable way too tedious.

I do think Chinese will grow in international importance in this century and many more westerners will learn it.

The domination of the English language globally is undeniable. English is the language of diplomacy and international communications, business, tourism, education, science, computer technology, media and Internet. Because English was used to develop communication, technology, programming, software, etc, it dominates the web. 70% of all information stored electronically is in English.

http://www.studyenglishtoday.net/english_language.html Edited March 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[denismsk]

restaurant - possibly. but i'm sure - that will be your single experience. noone want to loose any customer, so most of the businesses try to run in English as well, though the signs is in Russian only

[denismsk]

proof of the fact please? for you - may be. for millions of people - may be not. in Pattaya de-facto Russian is a second international language both of commerce and tourism for example.

Egads, I am not saying everyone speaks English, I am saying it is the international language of convenience. Everyday in town you will hear a German talking to a Spaniard in English. Or a Chinese to a Thai. It is a fact if you would open your ears. I'm not really interested in further communication with you on this matter; I find talking to people who insist on denying the undeniable way too tedious.

I do think Chinese will grow in international importance in this century and many more westerners will learn it.

The domination of the English language globally is undeniable. English is the language of diplomacy and international communications, business, tourism, education, science, computer technology, media and Internet. Because English was used to develop communication, technology, programming, software, etc, it dominates the web. 70% of all information stored electronically is in English.

http://www.studyengl...h_language.html

lol. studyenlishtoday.net! try to guess, what i find on the studychinesetoday.net? well, you have an imperalistic point of view like 'What i say is the best!'. come down on the Earth - Pattaya ALREADY speaks Russian,Egypt/Greece/Tunisia/etc touristic destination speak Russian as well as English.

actually it will be easier to explain may be - your point of view, that 'English is the most popular' - is the point of view from the Cold War, while Russian people have learned at school that 'Russian is the most popular'. and that's why they come here and speak no English - they think like you, that everyone will understand them. and as you can see - it is already done. and English - yes it is VERY popular. but not too much, comparing with the other languages used. take it easy.

[Jingthing]

You get the final word, mate. I think readers can make their own decisions on whether English or Russian is the REAL international language in the world today.

[RabC]

proof of the fact please? for you - may be. for millions of people - may be not. in Pattaya de-facto Russian is a second international language both of commerce and tourism for example.

Egads, I am not saying everyone speaks English, I am saying it is the international language of convenience. Everyday in town you will hear a German talking to a Spaniard in English. Or a Chinese to a Thai. It is a fact if you would open your ears. I'm not really interested in further communication with you on this matter; I find talking to people who insist on denying the undeniable way too tedious.

I do think Chinese will grow in international importance in this century and many more westerners will learn it.

The domination of the English language globally is undeniable. English is the language of diplomacy and international communications, business, tourism, education, science, computer technology, media and Internet. Because English was used to develop communication, technology, programming, software, etc, it dominates the web. 70% of all information stored electronically is in English.

http://www.studyengl...h_language.html

lol. studyenlishtoday.net! try to guess, what i find on the studychinesetoday.net? well, you have an imperalistic point of view like 'What i say is the best!'. come down on the Earth - Pattaya ALREADY speaks Russian,Egypt/Greece/Tunisia/etc touristic destination speak Russian as well as English. .

actually it will be easier to explain may be - your point of view, that 'English is the most popular' - is the point of view from the Cold War, while Russian people have learned at school that 'Russian is the most popular'. and that's why they come here and speak no English - they think like you, that everyone will understand them. and as you can see - it is already done. and English - yes it is VERY popular. but not too much, comparing with the other languages used. take it easy.

Jingthing, shame I can not vote twice. It is this small minded cold war bred attitude of superiority that is getting you pushed to the back of the bhat bus queue

Edited March 8, 2011 by RabC

[denismsk]

You get the final word, mate. I think readers can make their own decisions on whether English or Russian is the REAL international language in the world today.

again imperialistic view - does the world need 1 international language? or may be current situation, while 7-10 languages are more or less popular is fine for most people?