Tourist Deaths In Chiang Mai Just A ‘Coincidence’

[spidermike007]

Cover up or no cover up, there is no way would I ever stay at the Doomtown Downtown Inn.

The place should be officially closed down until a positive convincing report has been published regarding these suspicious deaths.

Any civilized nation would shut this place down in a nanosecond. In the US it would be crawling with FBI, and forensic teams, and the license to operate would be suspended until further notice. Here, it is as if nothing ever happened. But, the "toy police" are not really capable of investigating this properly in Thailand anyway, so not trying is a convenient way of skirting the real issue, and that is training, funding, support, and all of the other necessities of real law enforcement.

[orchis]

.

Worse,seems to be owned by a member of a family that can't be mentioned

That's not correct. Owning family is Buranupakorn.

The group's five hotels in Chiang Mai - Ratilanna Riverside Resort and Spa, The Empress, The Park, The Small, and Down Town Hotel - have more than 630 rooms in total. In Krabi, it operates Krabi La Playa Resort and The Small Krabi, having a total of 120 rooms. It also owns a residential project in Chiang Mai.

Edited March 9, 2011 by orchis

[spidermike007]

A coincidence.

Interesting documentary on History channel the other day titled "Race and Intelligence".

Well one hates to make general conclusions. But, if you look at the record, how many Thais have won Nobel peace prizes? How many have made major scientific breakthroughs? How many have dramatically changed the face of biology, astronomy, rocket science, botany, or neuroscience? While many Thai people are relatively intelligent, it does not appear as if the country is heavily populated with geniuses.

[tragickingdom]

Business as usual. 23 year olds drop death minutes apart from each other. No need to investigate. money (tourists dollars) are more important than crime. If survivors do not detract their statements they may commit suicide the Thai way.

[exbelg]

clearly there is a problem in that hotel; but for the right amount of tea money, all the problems just disappear and some else if found to be blamed

hope the embassies put warning to avoid this hotel

[Deerculler]

The New Zealand Goverment is not happy with the Thai Police report on the N Z woman who died and have sent samples to Japan for furher forensic tests.

[rammis35]

Tourist deaths in Chiang Mai just a ‘coincidence’

Statistically this it's more or less impossible that this was a coincidence, 1: a couple died together in the same room, that was a coincidence itself ? but 2: more people died is the same hotel. 3: They all died is a short period of time. So this would be actually THREE coincidences, conclusion: IT WAS NOT A COINCIDENCE.

Is it also a coincidence that different guest reviews from people of different countries talk about a VERY BAD SMELL in the room ?

Sorry but I believe simple calculation rather then the statement of the (non-independent) Thai government !

Wasn't there a 4th coincidence, didn't they all die from heart problems?

[ableguy]

Of course it is! coincidence that is.

Just like other foreigners found hanging by the neck on 5 cm ropes or with a bullet hole in the back of the head is a suicide or foreigners found dead in the room is also a suicide while the entire safe full of money is missing.

But my favorite is foreigners falling out from their balcony's those are either suicides or they were very drunk.

Not to mock, but a genuine question, when it comes to locals, is it the same kind of detective work or different?

detective work ? how can money be made from that ?

[Amras]

Just to be accurate, Thailand isn't classed as a third world country. It is the in-between called a developing nation. Much different to true third world countries like in Africa, the middle east etc. Vast differences between the two.

Look at some of the countries above Thailand here:

http://en.wikipedia....velopment_Index

and here

http://en.wikipedia....l%29_per_capita

Of course it's more politically correct to use "developing", and it's true that "Third World" hardly means anything objective these days (if it ever did).

Personally I'd would just use the term "pathetic" or "pitiful" depending on the context. (joking but just barely)

Not many third world countries I know of have huge shopping malls, high speed internet etc.

Even the poorest countries, including Thailand's beloved neighbors Cambodia and Burma have these things, but they're only for the oppressors running the show, and maybe some privileged foreigners. Even sticking to pure economics rather than politics, the question is: what percentage of the population can actually afford to be consumers of these?

True, Thailand is getting up to maybe 20%, higher than many. More telling to me is the fact that a rural poor person feels like they're trespassing even setting foot inside a place like Siam Paragon.

The issue of the police is a completely different one and obviously one day hopefully get's fixed. But the casualness of the police is what many enjoy about thailand, with respect to some rules. Not saying I agree, or disagree, simply pointing out the reality.

If all of Thailand's laws were strictly enforced then 95% or more of the population would be criminals. Which of course is what allows the brown-shirt mafia to arbitrarily demand payments whenever the opportunity presents.

Actually Thailand is classed as a newly industrialized country (which often is referred to as developing, but there is no 'classification of developing country'). It's not exactly first world, but even a common sense person can see how far it is from true third world countries which deserve the definition such as those in the likes of Africa, which lack sanitation and education, have starvation etc all exist. Thailand's not up there with the best of countries in terms of first world, and has a long way to go to become the equivalent of Singapore which has achieve third world status.

"Thailand experienced rapid economic growth between 1985 and 1995 and is a newly industrialized country with tourism, due to well-known tourist destinations such as Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket, Chiang Mai and Ko Samui, and exports contributing significantly to the economy.^{[11][12]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand}

and.. http://en.wikipedia....ialized_country

where Thailand is on the list with China, Phillipines, Mexico amongst others.

I can't beleive people think Thailand is third world. It's far from it and your bias' and prejudice for whatever reason, don't make it third world. I would tend to believe the countless numbers of official country classification sources available then a few disgruntled opinions here. Still boggles me why so many people who seem to have nothing but complaints about Thailand still live here. Really, I don't get it.

Thailand has a long way to go, but progress is being made, albeit slowly and although it may take longer then during your life time, but social change is rarely rapid. The next generation that comes through the political system in Thailand may have new ideas for moving Thailand into the 1st world or at least starting to push it more, as they likely have had much greater exposure to the west, our 'ideals', our influence etc.

And learn how to use

correctly, makes reading replies so much easier.

[lannarebirth]

Tourist deaths in Chiang Mai just a 'coincidence'

Statistically this it's more or less impossible that this was a coincidence, 1: a couple died together in the same room, that was a coincidence itself ? but 2: more people died is the same hotel. 3: They all died is a short period of time. So this would be actually THREE coincidences, conclusion: IT WAS NOT A COINCIDENCE.

Is it also a coincidence that different guest reviews from people of different countries talk about a VERY BAD SMELL in the room ?

Sorry but I believe simple calculation rather then the statement of the (non-independent) Thai government !

Wasn't there a 4th coincidence, didn't they all die from heart problems?

Correct. It was more easy to pass this off as coincidence when the orignal girl died and the older couple died, but presented vastly different symptoms. Now, with the discovery of this other poor girl, who was young and fit and ALSO dying of heart related illness IMO it can no longer be considered a coincidence at all.

[somtampet]

I was a cop, a detective at that, and I've met a fair share of Thai "detectives" in the last few years.Spent hours talking with them.

Simply put, they generally possess a total lack of even rudimentary training and couldn't detect an elephant in a life raft.

So, in many cases, it's not that they are "covering something up," it's that they lack the skills, techniques, experience and facilities to uncover anything. Therefore it is easier to claim it a coincidence than to admit they are stymied, and are clueless as to what to do next.

It's more the old "saving face" thing than mai pen rai.

100% agree with u,but i call it THICK AS PIG SHIT.

PS Thought your avatar name was harryroberts then,and u an ex cop too.

[zolo]

One of you mentioned the food as possibility. One another possibility can be Legionnaires' disease ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionellosis ). In case of shared air condition system, some part of the line may be infected.

[dunkin2012]

My idea is that to fully understand what happened they need their own intelligence operation here like the Russian and the US have. I know the North Korea have it in Thailand too. Do you remember Victor,a Russian was captured in Thailand and sent to the US court last year. The Russia used their spies to get the secret information from Thailand side and even tried to bribe the Thai authorities. Eventually, the case was too big bribery ain't easy then. The truth is true nothing else but disclosure of this truth will degrade the tourism industry though.

[Steely Dan]

I must have lived here too long as nothing about this case surprises me any more. A few days ago I asked the rhetorical question, how many more deaths would be needed before a proper investigation took place. Sadly we now learn of another poor victim who died in similar circumstances back in January, which makes five if they are indeed related.

It seems more clear than ever that the function of an embassy is little more than to facilitate trade with the nation concerned, the welfare of citizens overseas scarcely registers. There is one aspect to this and countless similar cases which does amaze me is how little mud sticks to Thailand. We have unrest on various borders, sporadic outbreaks of politically motivated violence and countless tourists or expats getting scammed or even dying in mysterious circumstances, but still the baht stays strong and tourists continue to arrive in numbers.

I suspect one day there will be a tipping point when the outside world actually takes notice to what goes on here and when that happens the shock will be of great proportion.

[KhunChay]

[jfchandler]

Let's see... trying to calculate the odds that all these deaths in the same hotel are just "coincidence"

Working... working... working....

Well, I'd post the number result here... one chance out of ..... (just fill up the entire rest of the page with numbers....)

[jimbeam1]

Be interesting to see if the bodies of the British couple are repatriated rather than cremated in LOS. Under English law an inquest would then have to be held. I think the coroner would raise an eyebrow at this particular "coincidence" and order another autopsy. Even with the passage of time there could be some interesting results emerging.

It would be nice to think so. Do not be suprised to read in a couple of days time, that they have been cremated already.

The British Embassy should have stepped in from the very beginning. Sadly that would have meant doing their job. Just like during the troubles last year. They shut up shop.

I do so hope that the British media pick up on this and really go for it. Expose the corruption of the Thai authorities, for ehat they really are and the British Embassy, for once again just sitting on their a-ses and pandering to the Thai government wishes.

[haveaniceday]

Wouldn't simple common toxicology test go along here?

[Cuban]

I was thinking that if robbery was ruled out (?) that food poisoning might be a common factor.

[scania]

Wow how I feel the same way. It´s just annother something something and I don´t even blink. Could not agree more. It´s also true that is sad.

The sad thing is, I have become numb to this sort of news. I expect it, I know the answer before I get to the end of the first paragraph. I don't even blink anymore!

I hope I become more compassionate when I move back to the UK.

[animatic]

They have done nothing more that warn ALL thinking people to NEVER go to The Downtown Hotel for several years till a LACK of deaths there proves the problem is no longer existant.

If there was tea money passed to make it go away, it will have the opposite effect, this is far too obvious and blatant for a cover up to work.

Or, if by worrying about face saving more than FINDING THE ANSWER, they have essentially left no doubt the problem still exists, because this is way beyond the realm of 'coincidence'.

The chance that both elderly people died of heart attacks within minutes of each other is minuscule to the point of demanding continuous ridicule. And regardless of Ken Albertson's commentary on the evils of MSG, this is highly unlikely a factor.

The Chaing Mai Police have created the EXACT OPPOSITE of their entended finding. Tourist confidence is immeasurably undermined by their lack of coherent action. Mai bpen raI DOES NOT CUT IT.

Edited March 9, 2011 by animatic

[Deeral]

Cyanide has a distinctive smell (raw almonds), also death from cyanide gives a cyanotic tinge to the skin.

One thing is clear, no virus or bacterium acts that fast, it has to be either a toxin in their food or water, or a gas. Carbon monoxide has been suggested but there is no mention of the typical bluish cyanotic skin colour from Carbon monoxide poisoning, and what would be its source?.

Is the aircon individual to the rooms or is there a ducted central installation.

Cooked PVC (insulation) gives off very toxic gases, so do many industrial cleaning fluids.

Very new vinyl plastic furniture also gives of toxic vapours in sunlight. You can notice it when you get into a new car.

All of these gases/vapours are heavier than air and would build up at floor level. The human nose adjusts to most smells after about 3 minutes.

So my guess is they walked in, notice a strange smell, which they associate with new furniture, get a headache after a while, so lie down into a deeper gas concentration, become unconscious and die.

http://www.epa.gov/t...f/vinylchl.html

http://articles.lati...showercurtain13

http://www.brighthub...cles/50901.aspx

"One thing is clear, no virus or bacterium acts that fast, " - firstly that is nonsense and secondly you don't know "how fast" anyway do you?

I think there is a lot of rubbish posted here by people who like to think it is a kind of conspiracy theory and want to be part of it.

The truth is probably far more mundane.

The people died due to some problem associated with the hotel or tourism. THe Thai authorities have no interst in the truth, those involved or finding out what happened - they simply want the matter to go away.

[jimbeam1]

The sad thing is, I have become numb to this sort of news. I expect it, I know the answer before I get to the end of the first paragraph. I don't even blink anymore!

I hope I become more compassionate when I move back to the UK.

Ditto.

Hopefully without moving back to the UK my compassion for the victims will remain the same, but my disdain for the authorities increases daily.

Thaddeus. I feel the same as you. But with stories such as this, happening far to often and the general every day corruption, it is gradually gnawing away at me.

jb1

[ginjag]

I was thinking that if robbery was ruled out (?) that food poisoning might be a common factor.

Please look at the statement made by the son of the Elderly couple. read into what he feels.......He was speaking from his home in Boston Lincolnshire England, Healthy----no heart problems---active for their age----Died of heart probs at the same moment-and enlarged hearts ?????????????????....... the son cannot accept the coincidence SH#T....

[dunkin2012]

Mai Pen Rai , We don't need to go to Chiang Mai then. There are many places in Thailand you can fit in. Until they break truth out. Coincidence will happen to their lives..... of those who said so. Just a matter of time then...

[Deeral]

....as for race and intelligence, as neither can be defined or measured and comparison would be pretty pointless.

one does wonder though what the motivation is for a scientist - who should know that these 2 things are not actually real or concrete concepts - but still wants to compare them...... basically the motivation must be political.

[sunnyrolfe]

Why do they even make these statements. Do they think the entire Western population put our heads in the sand and pretend we know nothing like these idiots. We grow up learning to think outside the flock and to question things. Don't they even have one person amongst them who lived in the West for years who can tell them how these kind of statements will be received? So much for attracting quality tourists. A long long way to go before they even have people who know how to use a mop properly(read,use clean water) let alone do a police job efficiently. The Chinese, Indians and Russians can have the place and good riddance.<br>

[fred110]

At the press conference at Chiang Mai police headquarters today Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul tried to allay fears of tourists caused by the four deaths in one hotel last month by saying: “We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another, are nothing more than coincidence. We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city.”

I was hoping that they would say that they would do their utmost to find out what the tourists died of...

I think the police will rule them all suicides!

[jfchandler]

I'm not a Chiang Mai type... but would this be the same Empress Hotels Group that the Downtown Inn is part of??

[jimbeam1]

Why do they even make these statements. Do they think the entire Western population put our heads in the sand and pretend we know nothing like these idiots. We grow up learning to think outside the flock and to question things. Don't they even have one person amongst them who lived in the West for years who can tell them how these kind of statements will be received? So much for attracting quality tourists. A long long way to go before they even have people who know how to use a mop properly(read,use clean water) let alone do a police job efficiently. The Chinese, Indians and Russians can have the place and good riddance.<br>

Yes he is called the Prime minister.

jb1