Italian National Murdered In Phuket

[dunkin2012]

11mm gun - sounds Russian - not saying that it was a Russian of course

JoHnBKK ; 11 mm guns are commonly use for the Police officers and as well as the Thai soldiers ... They are quite big and can make a severe damage to the body..... To kill someone, I rather use 11 mm cos' he/she will have no chance or surviving.... ( = 0)

what ! "if I were to kill someone I RATHER USE 11MM" ......gees what a comment.

will you pop up some firecrackers...........dude?

what?

yep..............Too much listening to Green day will make you insane................

[dananderson]

60 yrs old, not 40, him had a italian restaurant in Phi Phi Island, the name was Luciano butti.

Today was the day for him for go to the court for divorce from him wife.

<br>I put the name because is in the Italian news <a href="http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/mondo/articoli/1003292/thailandia-ucciso-un-italiano.shtml">http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/mondo/articoli/1003292/thailandia-ucciso-un-italiano.shtml</a><br><br>Why you guys dont just wait the police report about the crimes?<br>Most of the times you wrong about the cause of crimes just because you "suppose", dont suppose give time for have a full story, all details and the report from the police than you can talk about.<br><br>PS: not all people killed in Thailand must to be a boss of mafia or drugs dealer or criminals killed by other criminals<br>.Ciao

Here is a translation:

The owner of an Italian restaurant Thai island of Phi Phi, Luciano Butti, a native of Montevarchi, nell'Aretino, was killed with four shots of a firearm in Phuket. He was well liked by the Italian Community in Thailand. Police found the body about 200 metres from the Bang Pae waterfall, next to the motorcycle that Butti had rented. Investigators were on the trail of "several men".

Butti, 60, lived in Thailand since 1991 and had narrowly escaped the Tsunami of 26 December 2004, which devastated the tropical paradise of Phi Phi. After the terrible experience he had written a book, titled "Tsunami: Sorry I am not a writer but a survivor", and donated the proceeds to the survivors of the island.

The restaurant also had other interests in real estate in Thailand, which led him to divide his time between Phi Phi and Phuket. During this period, according to the newspaper, Phuket Wan (Phuket Today), Butti was engaged in divorce proceedings with his wife in Thailand, which should have been concluded in court today.

I remember him from 2004 when he published his book. I see that his personal "Blog" on http://www.wayn.com/...es/lucianobutti was last updated by him on the 15th March the same day he got shot dead . In his blog he wrote:

Hi, my name is Luciano Butti. I'm a 48 year-old Italian male, currently in Florence, Italy. I last logged in on 15th Mar 2011

"I am an Italian and I live alone happily in a tropical island of Thailand where the sight flows serene. I work in my restaurant Italian-thailandese and I have some bungalows for my clients. I am a honest and sincere person, faithful (monogamous), practical sport (frisby, beachvolley and diving) I have written a book and I will perhaps write of it' another. I like to travel. I have a beautiful life but I look for a young and beautiful women (for me important) that wants to share my life."

Advertising for young and beautiful women on the day of one's divorce hearing, is not recommended.

Chances are that the B.I.B. will declare this a suicide based on the live bullets left at the scene.

People are leaving their condolences on his restaurant website: http://www.ciaobellaphiphi.com/

Estrada

He will be missed. A good man who went out of his way to help tsunami victems. My deepest sympathies to his family and friends.

[webfact]

Related story:

Phuket Police have arrested 4 people in connection with the murder of Italian resort owner Luciano Butti, 61

Follow this link:

[sirchai]

So he wasn't robbed then? Thus the motive for murder was something else? Who carries around 22k baht (unless you are going to buy something expensive but then you can get a bank cheque or use a credit/debit card).

No wallet. Who goes ANYWHERE without a wallet? So chances are he WAS robbed since the wallet was gone, but they didn't think to check his shorts. However, robbery may or may not have been the motive.

This is a good point, but I would think maybe he knew something had to happen.

&lt;deleted&gt; is wrong with you guys? Playing Scotland out of Yard doesn't really make you to better people. Full stop.:jap:

[sirchai]

This seems to be a weekly news event now. Some farang shot, poisoned, committed suicide with hands behind the back, wife killed husband with family suspects, etc.

Not mentioning guys who'd lost their Pips.:jap:

[LeoCooper]

Anyone prepared the wager what the police investigation will conclude as to the cause of death in the this case ?......

BTW...well done to the Phuket Gazzette for not posting the persons name or splashing a copy of the photo page of the guys passport all over the internet, giving the deceased person concerned a little dignity in death

The "rags" in Pattaya could learn something

Must have been a coincidence, like the poor guys in Chiang Mai

[sirchai]

Condolence to the family and friends of Luciano.

May he rest in peace.

I contend it is not a 11 mm cartridge

and am convinced it is a 7.62x25 Tokarev.

A closer view of the cartridge left at the scene

clearly shows a 'shoulder' on the casing below the FMJ ball round.

For handguns and revolvers,

there are very very few cartridges which have said shoulder.

I only know of 2 and the 7.62x25 Tokarev is one of them.

It is a 8mm (somewhat) common cartridge.

See the pics, judge for yourself.

The image from the scene, with the cartridge zoomed...

The 7.62x25 Tokarev

source: http://en.wikipedia....rabellum,32.JPG

L-to-R: 32acp; 7.62 Tokarev; 9mm Nato

7,62 Tokarev compared to other cartridges

source: http://en.wikipedia....AP_50AE_002.jpg

L-to-R: 9mm Nato; 7,62 Tokarev; .357sig; 10mm auto; .40sw; .45acp; .50ae

A Chinese handgun that uses a 7.62x25 Tokarev cartridge

source: http://en.wikipedia..../Type_54_pistol

Chinese Type 54 Pistol

Does it really matter what type of gun the killer was using? Would it change the fact that he died? You must have too much time. :jap:

Edited March 19, 2011 by sirchai

[LeoCooper]

Farang deep and dark, seeking unscrupulous gain at every turn, bring Thai down to their level of filth and stupidity.

Get the ass holes out, they polute your pristine environs and debase the bhudist morality, and this from one desirous of living there.

Even in their home countries crime isnt as pervasive as they have made it there, in southern Thailand in particular..

[transam]

Farang deep and dark, seeking unscrupulous gain at every turn, bring Thai down to their level of filth and stupidity.

Get the ass holes out, they polute your pristine environs and debase the bhudist morality, and this from one desirous of living there.

Even in their home countries crime isnt as pervasive as they have made it there, in southern Thailand in particular..

Every single country on the planet, regardless of religion has to deal with crime, the more lax the police force in any given country the easier it is for crime to prevail, just like a magnet to the low life's of this world.

[rotary]

I maybe a minority but................I have not carried a wallet in 30 years. Money clip with cash folded up and a small ATM card leather holder suits me. Both in the same front pants pocket

So he wasn't robbed then? Thus the motive for murder was something else? Who carries around 22k baht (unless you are going to buy something expensive but then you can get a bank cheque or use a credit/debit card).

No wallet. Who goes ANYWHERE without a wallet? So chances are he WAS robbed since the wallet was gone, but they didn't think to check his shorts. However, robbery may or may not have been the motive.

This is a good point, but I would think maybe he knew something had to happen.

[smotherb]

So he wasn't robbed then? Thus the motive for murder was something else? Who carries around 22k baht (unless you are going to buy something expensive but then you can get a bank cheque or use a credit/debit card).

No wallet. Who goes ANYWHERE without a wallet? So chances are he WAS robbed since the wallet was gone, but they didn't think to check his shorts. However, robbery may or may not have been the motive.

I go everywhere whithout wallet and I have done since I started to go anywhere with money and I know many people that do, so what is wrong with that??

This is addressed to all commenters.

Well, again I find myself dumbfounded at the total lack of common sense many of my fellow ThaiVisa forum members demonstrate and must comment myself; thus, plunging me into your densely populated doldrum of nothing better to do in Thailand. I realize many of you will not, or simply cannot, read a comment this long, so have someone help you, if you even care.

Without the proper due shame, here goes: the Gazette article says in part,

“Thalang police found three 11mm bullet casings and three unspent 11mm bullets at the scene. The man had been shot four times: once in the left of his chest, once in his right collarbone, once in his left abdomen and once in his left wrist. Police found 22,100 baht cash in the man’s shorts, but not in a wallet.”

If we take these statements as fact, what do we know?

1) 11mm bullets, both spent and unspent were at the scene. If we conclude an 11mm gun was the weapon which was used to shoot the victim, we must advance to think of the type of weapon used. Was it a rifle or a pistol?

European—French, German, Belgian, Italian, etc.—and Japanese militaries produced 11mm rifles during the last half of the 19^th century, many were based on the German Mauser, French Gras, or Italian Albini rifles.

Was the Italian shot with a rifle? Let’s go back to the Gazette article, since that is all we have. Does that spent shell pictured look like a rifle shell, or is it more likely a pistol shell?

Well, European militaries—Austrian, French, Danish, German, Italian, Swiss, Norwegian, etc.—also produced 11mm revolvers during the last half of the 19^th century.

So, the Italian was plainly shot by an antique European military weapons enthusiast? What a perfectly logical conclusion and none of you head-spacers even mentioned it.

Hold on. It may be interesting to note that 11mm is similar in size to .44 and .45 caliber—anyone ever heard of a Colt model 1911 .45? Oh, yeah, duh, that’s the service pistol of the Thai military—and, no doubt, many Thai police departments issue them too—which means many 1911 .45’s are readily available here.

So, why does the Gazette article say 11mm? Well, maybe because Thais use the decimal system—only the US and Myanmar use SAE. Let’s look at the pictures. The spent shell looks like a .45 casing to me—it may be a little long, so it could be a .44 magnum; dam_n, maybe Dirty Harry is here and killed the Italian. No, my unintelligible bull translates better if they are .45 shells.

Since the police found .45 shells at the scene and many Thai police are issued .45s, it means the Italian was shot by police for, uh, speeding on his Click. See, another ‘ThaiVisa forum logical’ conclusion no one else mentioned. Shame-shame.

Hey, back-off, I am just using the same unsubstantiated bull the rest of you are using to draw my conclusions—only I add my convoluted logic and rationale, which is derived in part through research and in part through sheer amazement at what I read—and poke fun.

2) Only three spent 11mm shells were found, but there were three live rounds left. That means the Italian luckily escaped being shot three more times. Another obvious scenario you all failed to mention.

The Italian had four wounds, but only three spent shells were found. Well, we all know how thorough Thai police investigations are. That has to mean that the Italian was shot four times with only three bullets.

Hmmm! I wonder if a .45 caliber round may have entered, say, his left wrist, and penetrated all the way through into his left abdomen. dam_n, another perfectly logical, for this forum at least, conclusion. Hey, just pissing on your shoes and telling you it’s rainy season.

3) “Police found 22,100 baht cash in the man’s shorts, but not in his wallet.” To how many morons does that statement translate into: there was no wallet?

Not to let the other cretins pass unscathed, how many thick-heads think you have to carry money in your wallet or can’t go anywhere without a wallet? Apparently there are several. What cave do you inhabit?

Let us not forget the accuser who said, ‘Everyone is assuming the Italian is an innocent man that did nothing wrong.’ Yeah, let’s forget about all that bull about being innocent until proven guilty, he is dead, we can say anything about him—and there are other non-composmenti out there who defend his right to deny others their rights.

One said, ‘He is not accusing anyone of anything........ is he?’ No, he is just jumping to uncorroborated assumptions which cast aspersions at the innocence of a dead man. Slander and denial of basic rights, yeah, that’s what its all about. Stand by your man.

So, yes the Italian was obviously not innocent. He was most likely the head of the Italian mafia and was taken out by the Russian mafia, who used Japanese Yakuza 11mm Murata rifles flown in by the CIA—let’s not let the Americans off so lightly.

Wait a minute, did I say ‘rifles’ as in plural? What an astonishing example of brilliance. Of course, the 11mm Japanese Murata is a single shot bolt action rifle. So, there were at least three Russian mafia snipers—or were they CIA-trained Thai snipers moonlighting with the Russians? Or, were they the katoey trio appearing nightly at the Man Club?

Do you see how we don’t even need an investigation to solve this crime?

Finally, the real clincher here, who is so naïve that they think B22k is a lot of money to carry—especially for a Western falang in Phuket? One good night on Soi Bangla could easily cost that. Then again, the Chang and Soi Disease street-massage mob would not know that.

So, my fellow ThaiVisa forum readers and commenters, aren’t you ashamed of yourselves? A man was killed. It most likely was not suicide or by accident—unless as one commenter offered, that he was hit by incidental ‘11mm’ rounds passing at the same time and place. We know very little—only what was said in the Gazette article—but we still conjecture and cajole. Any idiot can guess at what happened—haven’t I just showed you. The newspapers initiate the stories; then, fail to follow-up on them. Or, is it the police who fail to follow-up? Or, is it the system which has no follow-up? Or, is it we, who do not really matter?

I will try to withhold future comments. I attempted to simply not read the forums, but, like many of you, just can’t find anything else to do in Thailand. Perhaps we should start a quilting circle, you know, each one adding a new patch of unsupported excretion until we develop a real cesspool in which to wallow.

Love and kisses, y’all.