What Do You Feel Are The Differences Between Farangs And Thais?

[HerbalEd]

It's a little like comparing a 1980's Skoda to a current BMW. There will be some folk that for personal reasons prefer the Skoda, which is fair enough, but to argue it is better then the BMW is surely delusional.

Nicely put summation and analogy..

So you're saying Thais are the '80s Skoda and westerners are the BMW ... and therefore westerners are "better" than Thais??? Better in what way? Are westerners more polite? More moral? Better parents? What? While Thailand and Thais have all the negatives of any country and people, overall I find the Thai people at large to be much nicer and friendlier than westerners. Of course, there are many exceptions on both sides of the equation.

No. I was actually referring to the countries to be honest. However I do believe that the people make the counties however indirectly, so I guess it could cover the actual people in a way.

And again I ask the same question: Better in what way? How do westerners display this supposed betterness?

[IanForbes]

Anybody who CAN'T see the differences between Thais and farangs certainly hasn't opened their eyes and their minds. That doesn't mean one is better and the other is worse. It just means there are differences... and I don't mean skin colour. There are differences in education, differences in culture, differences in religion, differences in average wealth and certainly differences in family up-bringing. They all affect the end result. I could relate a whole bunch of specific stories dealing with each subject but they wouldn't prove a thing.

[Forethat]

Anybody who CAN'T see the differences between Thais and farangs certainly hasn't opened their eyes and their minds. That doesn't mean one is better and the other is worse. It just means there are differences... and I don't mean skin colour. There are differences in education, differences in culture, differences in religion, differences in average wealth and certainly differences in family up-bringing. They all affect the end result. I could relate a whole bunch of specific stories dealing with each subject but they wouldn't prove a thing.

Ehh...hold on a minute.

You're telling me that the reason for the difference in intelligence is due to the culture, education, average wealth and family up-bringing - and that if it wasn't for those things they would score at least equal to most western countries on an IQ test?

[Jingthing]

Anybody who CAN'T see the differences between Thais and farangs certainly hasn't opened their eyes and their minds. That doesn't mean one is better and the other is worse. It just means there are differences... and I don't mean skin colour. There are differences in education, differences in culture, differences in religion, differences in average wealth and certainly differences in family up-bringing. They all affect the end result. I could relate a whole bunch of specific stories dealing with each subject but they wouldn't prove a thing.

Ehh...hold on a minute.

You're telling me that the reason for the difference in intelligence is due to the culture, education, average wealth and family up-bringing - and that if it wasn't for those things they would score at least equal to most western countries on an IQ test?

YES

[surayu]

Ehh...hold on a minute.

You're telling me that the reason for the difference in intelligence is due to the culture, education, average wealth and family up-bringing - and that if it wasn't for those things they would score at least equal to most western countries on an IQ test?

That will be untill the official scientific world, will prove anything different.

Likely to be a thai scientist though

[IanForbes]

Anybody who CAN'T see the differences between Thais and farangs certainly hasn't opened their eyes and their minds. That doesn't mean one is better and the other is worse. It just means there are differences... and I don't mean skin colour. There are differences in education, differences in culture, differences in religion, differences in average wealth and certainly differences in family up-bringing. They all affect the end result. I could relate a whole bunch of specific stories dealing with each subject but they wouldn't prove a thing.

Ehh...hold on a minute.

You're telling me that... Yada, yada, yada...

No, I'm not telling YOU anything. You ALREADY know everthing about everything... as you keep telling us.

[jazzbo]

I see, new Forum rule: No pretty women... just pretty fish.

I remember so many astonishingly beautiful women who were duds once we were alone. Maybe so many of them became duds once they were alone and said to themselves "... and just how did an astonishing beautiful woman like me end up with Eull Gibbons?"

I have not known close-up that many woman whether here in Thailand or before coming but I fail to see how always mentioning that one has met 'thousands' of women or some other measure of quantity tends to validate one's position ... Charlie Sheen is still way out ahead. People in USA used to say "I know all about women -- I've been married 3 times "... Right

Personally when a lot of you guys were in your rutting days I was confined to psychiatric wards so I just never had the same chance.

Edited March 23, 2011 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

Sorry ... I intended this for the other topic but what the hell --

[IanForbes]

Sorry ... I intended this for the other topic but what the hell --

:lol:

In this forum it ALL fits, Jazz.

It was dying a bit and needed some "jazzing" up. The other forums are growing boring. How many times can you ask who makes the best pizza?

And, lord help us if we stray out of Thailand... even though it might be a world wide (including Thailand) topic.

[pjclark1]

To be perfectly frank and upfront, except for the very few that are close to me, it would not bother me if I never saw another farang again.

I would much prefer to live a among the Thais. They are a most polite, inviting people and providing we respect them, in most cases they will respect us.

Many of the farangs in Thailand are the complete opposite and with some having such low opinions of the Thais; I often wonder why these farangs are here at all?

My question is: if you are a farang and consider yourself far superior to the Thais, dislike the Thais and Thailand for whatever reasons, why are you here?

DITTO

I can answer this quite easily

There are many elderly white men living in Thailand who live in an huge air conditioned house and never go outside or interact with Thais, except for their much younger Thai wife.

It's just a cheap place for them to live, the Internet is their life. I don't live this way but I can understand it quite easily.

Mind you

I don't agree with your 'Thai is good, white is bad' attitude either.

Both races have their own faults and strengths, I like to pick and choose.

Edited March 24, 2011 by pjclark1

[Forethat]

Anybody who CAN'T see the differences between Thais and farangs certainly hasn't opened their eyes and their minds. That doesn't mean one is better and the other is worse. It just means there are differences... and I don't mean skin colour. There are differences in education, differences in culture, differences in religion, differences in average wealth and certainly differences in family up-bringing. They all affect the end result. I could relate a whole bunch of specific stories dealing with each subject but they wouldn't prove a thing.

Ehh...hold on a minute.

You're telling me that... Yada, yada, yada...

No, I'm not telling YOU anything. You ALREADY know everthing about everything... as you keep telling us.

Well, here's a tip for you: In case you don't want people to comment on your posts when they feel like it or if you cant accept others opinions - please dont post on a public Internet forum.

And in case you wondered, there are people who find it kind not to rebuke people when they're being delusional. I dont share that opinion

[SICHONSTEVE]

Is your space bar still not working.

I imagine it is - heisjustsospacedoutatthemoment,ithinkthatyouwillfindthatthatstheproblem!!!

[Ulysses G.]

Personally when a lot of you guys were in your rutting days I was confined to psychiatric wards so I just never had the same chance.

Now that is what I call candour!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Anybody who CAN'T see the differences between Thais and farangs certainly hasn't opened their eyes and their minds. That doesn't mean one is better and the other is worse. It just means there are differences... and I don't mean skin colour. There are differences in education, differences in culture, differences in religion, differences in average wealth and certainly differences in family up-bringing. They all affect the end result. I could relate a whole bunch of specific stories dealing with each subject but they wouldn't prove a thing.

Ehh...hold on a minute.

You're telling me that... Yada, yada, yada...

No, I'm not telling YOU anything. You ALREADY know everthing about everything... as you keep telling us.

Well, here's a tip for you: In case you don't want people to comment on your posts when they feel like it or if you cant accept others opinions - please dont post on a public Internet forum.

And in case you wondered, there are people who find it kind not to rebuke people when they're being delusional. I dont share that opinion

Why don't you give constructive criticism rather than trying to belittle someone's opinion in such a childish and immature manner!!!

What's all this Yada,yada,yada business all about??? if you had said that you had a different opinion on something that he had written in his posting and had given your opinion on the matter in a sensibly constructed retort (if you are indeed capable of mustering one, which I doubt) what with you're seemingly limited vocabulary and intelligence of a 5 year old then wouldn't that have been so much better???? As for suggesting that if Ian doesn't like people commenting on his posts he shouldn't be using public forums - well I would prefer to read something sensible and well thought out (which it is) rather than your pathetic little throwaway comments that are meaningless drivel and not worth wasting my time reading (apart from giving me ammunition to shoot you down that is)!!!

Edited March 25, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[Forethat]

Why don't you give constructive criticism rather than trying to belittle someone's opinion in such a childish and immature manner!!!

What's all this Yada,yada,yada business all about??? if you had said that you had a different opinion on something that he had written in his posting and had given your opinion on the matter in a sensibly constructed retort (if you are indeed capable of mustering one, which I doubt) what with you're seemingly limited vocabulary and intelligence of a 5 year old then wouldn't that have been so much better???? As for suggesting that if Ian doesn't like people commenting on his posts he shouldn't be using public forums - well I would prefer to read something sensible and well thought out (which it is) rather than your pathetic little throwaway comments that are meaningless drivel and not worth wasting my time reading (apart from giving me ammunition to shoot you down that is)!!!

You seldom read the posts before commenting on them, am I right?

[SICHONSTEVE]

I think you're correct, JurgenG. Farangs in Thailand do manage to find that bottom 5% of Thais with consistent regularity. And that's pretty much what they've based their opinions on.

Have you ever been in a Thai persons house?

Most of those i visit barely have running water (my MIL didn't have water until I bought her a pump)

They don't have hot water, and they have squat toilets usually over a hole in the ground.

95% of Thais live in poverty, not 5%

that's

67% in rural poverty

28% in city slums

Great to see so many posters never actually go to the homes of real Thai people.

But even so they are wannabe Thais and still call everyone else 'whitey'

I think you are pretty close there, PJ. I've been in MANY Thai families homes. I've got hundreds of photos to prove it. I've also been in the homes of a few wealthy Thais that could buy and sell me 10 times over. But, wealth doesn't always relate to happiness, and my own son is a good example of that... WHILE LIVING IN CANADA!

Matthew and a friend homesteaded a piece of property in central BC where the temperature in the winter gets to 40 below. The two lads hauled their little trailers onto the property with a 4x4 truck. When the truck couldn't pull the trailers any farther that is where they stayed. Then, they built a fortress around the trailers using free trims from a local sawmill and called it home. They had no water or toilet, and the only electricity they had was long extension cord from a neighbour's house. They built an outhouse and imported water from friends, and they were happy as pigs in the mud. They lived that way for 2 years on part time employment at less than minimum wages. By statistics they were at the very bottom rung of poverty, but you never saw two happier guys.

Ironically I just heard a report on the radio today about a study done by A--/out of u/ mption....Ah never mind you get the idea University where as they polled a given number of provinces and asked the level of peoples happiness and to me anyway not surprisingly the farmers in the north with their simple life styles were the happiest and the most unhappy province with their dog eat dog never get enough mentality was Phuket..

Ok, Ok, I get your point - i was a little bit harsh on you with my comments (understatement of the year maybe) and served you quite an injustice (especially on the intelligence and lack of vocabulary etc: stakes) as you are clearly nothing of the sort. I will be more constructive now and in the future myself as against my misjudged effort where I dealt with you so unfairly through my lack of research in this instance.

I have lived in a town called Sichon in Nakhonsithammarat, Southern Thailand with my wife for nearly 3 years now. It is the usual mix of poor and rich, young and old although it is not full of poverty like some towns in the North, East and the West. I cannot, and do not claim to have wittnessed much in the way of extreme poverty in Thailand (or elseware) so cannot comment on this specifically. I can comment however on the example that you cited and although I don't doubt it's authenticity and validity I do not think this the correct way to assess this point.

"Ironically I just heard a report on the radio today about a study done by A--/out of u/ mption....Ah never mind you get the idea University where as they polled a given number of provinces and asked the level of peoples happiness and to me anyway not surprisingly the farmers in the north with their simple life styles were the happiest and the most unhappy province with their dog eat dog never get enough mentality was Phuket".

I think that poverty stricken people learn (its a necessity essentially) to accept their predicament and are forced to adapt accordingly so that they can live within their means. On account of this they tend to enjoy the small and simple things in life and can cope with literally everything thrown at them. The rich elite (other end of the poverty scale) that can holiday in 5 star hotels every 3 months or so in some 'paradise' location in Bali or Mauritius will soon tire of this lifestyle and having 'splashed the cash' they will get bored when they have had their fun and come back to their comparatively mundane way of life in their mansion. This accepted, I wouldn't mind betting that if you offered somebody the choice of exchanging their poverty stricken lives for one where they can own some land, build a house, have their own car, start their own business and afford some luxuries they would choose this lifestyle over their existing one (whether they are as happy as Larry, or not). There will always be exceptions (as in the case of the 2 brothers you quote in your example and those farmers you mention) but these will be an extremely small minority in the general scheme of things and it's certainly possible that they are making it out that they are happy so as to hide their envy. Contentment isn't the same as happiness as you don't always have the choices or means to achieve the first one and it's how (or whether, more pertinently) you can achieve this with what you've got or been given. Happiness is what you are and is more associated with your character and personality and is governed more or less by how you approach life and what your expectations are. Somebody with low expectations can obtain both forms quite easily whereas somebody with high expectations will struggle to obtain either without the resources needed to do so.

My point is: a massive majority of people strive for much higher things than having to live in such abject poverty (why do so many people spend their hard cash doing the lottery with the remotest of remote of chances of winning big) but not achieving your expectations doesn't always equate to unhappiness in life - clearly its what you make of it that counts mostly.

[IanForbes]

That was a big mouthful to swallow all at once, SichonSteve, but a true one. I agree.

[Deeral]

[

I think you're correct, JurgenG. Farangs in Thailand do manage to find that bottom 5% of Thais with consistent regularity. And that's pretty much what they've based their opinions on.

I think you are pretty close there, PJ. I've been in MANY Thai families homes. I've got hundreds of photos to prove it. I've also been in the homes of a few wealthy Thais that could buy and sell me 10 times over. But, wealth doesn't always relate to happiness, and my own son is a good example of that... WHILE LIVING IN CANADA!

Matthew and a friend homesteaded a piece of property in central BC where the temperature in the winter gets to 40 below. The two lads hauled their little trailers onto the property with a 4x4 truck. When the truck couldn't pull the trailers any farther that is where they stayed. Then, they built a fortress around the trailers using free trims from a local sawmill and called it home. They had no water or toilet, and the only electricity they had was long extension cord from a neighbour's house. They built an outhouse and imported water from friends, and they were happy as pigs in the mud. They lived that way for 2 years on part time employment at less than minimum wages. By statistics they were at the very bottom rung of poverty, but you never saw two happier guys.

Ok, Ok, I get your point - i was a little bit harsh on you with my comments (understatement of the year maybe) and served you quite an injustice (especially on the intelligence and lack of vocabulary etc: stakes) as you are clearly nothing of the sort. I will be more constructive now and in the future myself as against my misjudged effort where I dealt with you so unfairly through my lack of research in this instance.

I have lived in a town called Sichon in Nakhonsithammarat, Southern Thailand with my wife for nearly 3 years now. It is the usual mix of poor and rich, young and old although it is not full of poverty like some towns in the North, East and the West. I cannot, and do not claim to have wittnessed much in the way of extreme poverty in Thailand (or elseware) so cannot comment on this specifically. I can comment however on the example that you cited and although I don't doubt it's authenticity and validity I do not think this the correct way to assess this point.

"Ironically I just heard a report on the radio today about a study done by A--/out of u/ mption....Ah never mind you get the idea University where as they polled a given number of provinces and asked the level of peoples happiness and to me anyway not surprisingly the farmers in the north with their simple life styles were the happiest and the most unhappy province with their dog eat dog never get enough mentality was Phuket".

I think that poverty stricken people learn (its a necessity essentially) to accept their predicament and are forced to adapt accordingly so that they can live within their means. On account of this they tend to enjoy the small and simple things in life and can cope with literally everything thrown at them. The rich elite (other end of the poverty scale) that can holiday in 5 star hotels every 3 months or so in some 'paradise' location in Bali or Mauritius will soon tire of this lifestyle and having 'splashed the cash' they will get bored when they have had their fun and come back to their comparatively mundane way of life in their mansion. This accepted, I wouldn't mind betting that if you offered somebody the choice of exchanging their poverty stricken lives for one where they can own some land, build a house, have their own car, start their own business and afford some luxuries they would choose this lifestyle over their existing one (whether they are as happy as Larry, or not). There will always be exceptions (as in the case of the 2 brothers you quote in your example and those farmers you mention) but these will be an extremely small minority in the general scheme of things and it's certainly possible that they are making it out that they are happy so as to hide their envy. Contentment isn't the same as happiness as you don't always have the choices or means to achieve the first one and it's how (or whether, more pertinently) you can achieve this with what you've got or been given. Happiness is what you are and is more associated with your character and personality and is governed more or less by how you approach life and what your expectations are. Somebody with low expectations can obtain both forms quite easily whereas somebody with high expectations will struggle to obtain either without the resources needed to do so.

My point is: a massive majority of people strive for much higher things than having to live in such abject poverty (why do so many people spend their hard cash doing the lottery with the remotest of remote of chances of winning big) but not achieving your expectations doesn't always equate to unhappiness in life - clearly its what you make of it that counts mostly.

If you look at the hardware etc in those photos - you'll see that those guys are anything but poor - furthermore they have the option of moving - it is the lack of options and oportunity that qulifiessomeone as poor - the fact that their circumstances might last forever.

[StreetCowboy]

...

...

Ok, Ok, I get your point - i was a little bit harsh on you with my comments (understatement of the year maybe) and served you quite an injustice (especially on the intelligence and lack of vocabulary etc: stakes) as you are clearly nothing of the sort. I will be more constructive now and in the future myself as against my misjudged effort where I dealt with you so unfairly through my lack of research in this instance.

I have lived in a town called Sichon in Nakhonsithammarat, Southern Thailand with my wife for nearly 3 years now. It is the usual mix of poor and rich, young and old although it is not full of poverty like some towns in the North, East and the West. I cannot, and do not claim to have wittnessed much in the way of extreme poverty in Thailand (or elseware) so cannot comment on this specifically. I can comment however on the example that you cited and although I don't doubt it's authenticity and validity I do not think this the correct way to assess this point.

"Ironically I just heard a report on the radio today about a study done by A--/out of u/ mption....Ah never mind you get the idea University where as they polled a given number of provinces and asked the level of peoples happiness and to me anyway not surprisingly the farmers in the north with their simple life styles were the happiest and the most unhappy province with their dog eat dog never get enough mentality was Phuket".

I think that poverty stricken people learn (its a necessity essentially) to accept their predicament and are forced to adapt accordingly so that they can live within their means. On account of this they tend to enjoy the small and simple things in life and can cope with literally everything thrown at them. The rich elite (other end of the poverty scale) that can holiday in 5 star hotels every 3 months or so in some 'paradise' location in Bali or Mauritius will soon tire of this lifestyle and having 'splashed the cash' they will get bored when they have had their fun and come back to their comparatively mundane way of life in their mansion. This accepted, I wouldn't mind betting that if you offered somebody the choice of exchanging their poverty stricken lives for one where they can own some land, build a house, have their own car, start their own business and afford some luxuries they would choose this lifestyle over their existing one (whether they are as happy as Larry, or not). There will always be exceptions (as in the case of the 2 brothers you quote in your example and those farmers you mention) but these will be an extremely small minority in the general scheme of things and it's certainly possible that they are making it out that they are happy so as to hide their envy. Contentment isn't the same as happiness as you don't always have the choices or means to achieve the first one and it's how (or whether, more pertinently) you can achieve this with what you've got or been given. Happiness is what you are and is more associated with your character and personality and is governed more or less by how you approach life and what your expectations are. Somebody with low expectations can obtain both forms quite easily whereas somebody with high expectations will struggle to obtain either without the resources needed to do so.

My point is: a massive majority of people strive for much higher things than having to live in such abject poverty (why do so many people spend their hard cash doing the lottery with the remotest of remote of chances of winning big) but not achieving your expectations doesn't always equate to unhappiness in life - clearly its what you make of it that counts mostly.

Perhaps the reason people remain poor is becuase they are happy, and therefore not motivated to change their conditions.

Whereas, people who are driven by ambition and greed will never be happy, since they aspire not to any specific objective - they are driven not by a lack of something, or a specific objective, but only by greed and ambition

That's another thing that Thais and Farangs have in common; some are greedy and ambitious, some are not

SC

[Jingthing]

Personally when a lot of you guys were in your rutting days I was confined to psychiatric wards so I just never had the same chance.

Now that is what I call candour!

Indeed. At least someone with a resume more disturbing than mine!

[SICHONSTEVE]

...

...

Ok, Ok, I get your point - i was a little bit harsh on you with my comments (understatement of the year maybe) and served you quite an injustice (especially on the intelligence and lack of vocabulary etc: stakes) as you are clearly nothing of the sort. I will be more constructive now and in the future myself as against my misjudged effort where I dealt with you so unfairly through my lack of research in this instance.

I have lived in a town called Sichon in Nakhonsithammarat, Southern Thailand with my wife for nearly 3 years now. It is the usual mix of poor and rich, young and old although it is not full of poverty like some towns in the North, East and the West. I cannot, and do not claim to have wittnessed much in the way of extreme poverty in Thailand (or elseware) so cannot comment on this specifically. I can comment however on the example that you cited and although I don't doubt it's authenticity and validity I do not think this the correct way to assess this point.

"Ironically I just heard a report on the radio today about a study done by A--/out of u/ mption....Ah never mind you get the idea University where as they polled a given number of provinces and asked the level of peoples happiness and to me anyway not surprisingly the farmers in the north with their simple life styles were the happiest and the most unhappy province with their dog eat dog never get enough mentality was Phuket".

I think that poverty stricken people learn (its a necessity essentially) to accept their predicament and are forced to adapt accordingly so that they can live within their means. On account of this they tend to enjoy the small and simple things in life and can cope with literally everything thrown at them. The rich elite (other end of the poverty scale) that can holiday in 5 star hotels every 3 months or so in some 'paradise' location in Bali or Mauritius will soon tire of this lifestyle and having 'splashed the cash' they will get bored when they have had their fun and come back to their comparatively mundane way of life in their mansion. This accepted, I wouldn't mind betting that if you offered somebody the choice of exchanging their poverty stricken lives for one where they can own some land, build a house, have their own car, start their own business and afford some luxuries they would choose this lifestyle over their existing one (whether they are as happy as Larry, or not). There will always be exceptions (as in the case of the 2 brothers you quote in your example and those farmers you mention) but these will be an extremely small minority in the general scheme of things and it's certainly possible that they are making it out that they are happy so as to hide their envy. Contentment isn't the same as happiness as you don't always have the choices or means to achieve the first one and it's how (or whether, more pertinently) you can achieve this with what you've got or been given. Happiness is what you are and is more associated with your character and personality and is governed more or less by how you approach life and what your expectations are. Somebody with low expectations can obtain both forms quite easily whereas somebody with high expectations will struggle to obtain either without the resources needed to do so.

My point is: a massive majority of people strive for much higher things than having to live in such abject poverty (why do so many people spend their hard cash doing the lottery with the remotest of remote of chances of winning big) but not achieving your expectations doesn't always equate to unhappiness in life - clearly its what you make of it that counts mostly.

Perhaps the reason people remain poor is becuase they are happy, and therefore not motivated to change their conditions.

Whereas, people who are driven by ambition and greed will never be happy, since they aspire not to any specific objective - they are driven not by a lack of something, or a specific objective, but only by greed and ambition

That's another thing that Thais and Farangs have in common; some are greedy and ambitious, some are not

SC

I'm afraid I don't agree with your surmissal as I'm sure that if they could change their conditions and become rich(er) they wouldn't hesitate to, in a majority of such situations.

You're second sentence doesn't really make sense as you cannot state that a commonality between Thai's and Farangs is that they are either greedy and ambitious (to some degree) or not at all, as everyone is one or the other be they Nepalese, French or from Bury in Lancashire, in varying degrees, so it isn't really saying anything!!!!!!

[IanForbes]

If you look at the hardware etc in those photos - you'll see that those guys are anything but poor - furthermore they have the option of moving - it is the lack of options and oportunity that qulifiessomeone as poor - the fact that their circumstances might last forever.

I didn't say they were poor. I said they lived far below the so called "povery line". I don't know what hardware you are referring to, but that is $200 rebuilt trike (not a quad, and now not legal).

The motorbike they shared between them and cost $400 which they also rebuilt it from parts. They each had a $200 beater car that they drove until it died. What I DID say is they both were happy and thought they were kings of their realm. And, this is what brings me back to the comparison beween poverty in Thailand as compared to poverty in Canada or the USA. In North America we have the option of NOT living in poverty if we are willing to work. That is not always an option in Thailand. But, whether you have money or not does not make you happy or sad. Very often happiness IS a personal choice. Yes, most people, including myself, could always use a little more money, but it won't always relate to an increase in happiness.

[mstribling]

Thai's are much better at stacking stereo speakers in the back of an old pickup truck than we are.

[StreetCowboy]

...

...

Ok, Ok, I get your point - i was a little bit harsh on you with my comments (understatement of the year maybe) and served you quite an injustice (especially on the intelligence and lack of vocabulary etc: stakes) as you are clearly nothing of the sort. I will be more constructive now and in the future myself as against my misjudged effort where I dealt with you so unfairly through my lack of research in this instance.

I have lived in a town called Sichon in Nakhonsithammarat, Southern Thailand with my wife for nearly 3 years now. It is the usual mix of poor and rich, young and old although it is not full of poverty like some towns in the North, East and the West. I cannot, and do not claim to have wittnessed much in the way of extreme poverty in Thailand (or elseware) so cannot comment on this specifically. I can comment however on the example that you cited and although I don't doubt it's authenticity and validity I do not think this the correct way to assess this point.

"Ironically I just heard a report on the radio today about a study done by A--/out of u/ mption....Ah never mind you get the idea University where as they polled a given number of provinces and asked the level of peoples happiness and to me anyway not surprisingly the farmers in the north with their simple life styles were the happiest and the most unhappy province with their dog eat dog never get enough mentality was Phuket".

I think that poverty stricken people learn (its a necessity essentially) to accept their predicament and are forced to adapt accordingly so that they can live within their means. On account of this they tend to enjoy the small and simple things in life and can cope with literally everything thrown at them. The rich elite (other end of the poverty scale) that can holiday in 5 star hotels every 3 months or so in some 'paradise' location in Bali or Mauritius will soon tire of this lifestyle and having 'splashed the cash' they will get bored when they have had their fun and come back to their comparatively mundane way of life in their mansion. This accepted, I wouldn't mind betting that if you offered somebody the choice of exchanging their poverty stricken lives for one where they can own some land, build a house, have their own car, start their own business and afford some luxuries they would choose this lifestyle over their existing one (whether they are as happy as Larry, or not). There will always be exceptions (as in the case of the 2 brothers you quote in your example and those farmers you mention) but these will be an extremely small minority in the general scheme of things and it's certainly possible that they are making it out that they are happy so as to hide their envy. Contentment isn't the same as happiness as you don't always have the choices or means to achieve the first one and it's how (or whether, more pertinently) you can achieve this with what you've got or been given. Happiness is what you are and is more associated with your character and personality and is governed more or less by how you approach life and what your expectations are. Somebody with low expectations can obtain both forms quite easily whereas somebody with high expectations will struggle to obtain either without the resources needed to do so.

My point is: a massive majority of people strive for much higher things than having to live in such abject poverty (why do so many people spend their hard cash doing the lottery with the remotest of remote of chances of winning big) but not achieving your expectations doesn't always equate to unhappiness in life - clearly its what you make of it that counts mostly.

Perhaps the reason people remain poor is becuase they are happy, and therefore not motivated to change their conditions.

Whereas, people who are driven by ambition and greed will never be happy, since they aspire not to any specific objective - they are driven not by a lack of something, or a specific objective, but only by greed and ambition

That's another thing that Thais and Farangs have in common; some are greedy and ambitious, some are not

SC

I'm afraid I don't agree with your surmissal as I'm sure that if they could change their conditions and become rich(er) they wouldn't hesitate to, in a majority of such situations.

You're second sentence doesn't really make sense as you cannot state that a commonality between Thai's and Farangs is that they are either greedy and ambitious (to some degree) or not at all, as everyone is one or the other be they Nepalese, French or from Bury in Lancashire, in varying degrees, so it isn't really saying anything!!!!!!

I think that if they would do anything to change their conditions, except work very hard, sacrifice their happiness, move away from their family, concentrate on education etc etc.

THe same reason that I do not earn more than I do, that I am not the boss of the company... because while it might be nice, I am not willing to make the necessary sacrifices, and I do not have the drive and ambition for it.

If I was a more ambitous person, or greedier, I might be more successful or richer, but probably not happier; if I was more diligent and frugal, I would probably be more successful and richer as well...

You have my point exactly; people regardless of race may be ambitious and greedy, or not. In fact, people are generally more differentiated within a race than between races, though culture may affect how they behave and think.

But culture is less than skin deep, and can be changed within a generation or two, if one is willing to make the effort.

SC

[jdinasia]

It's a little like comparing a 1980's Skoda to a current BMW. There will be some folk that for personal reasons prefer the Skoda, which is fair enough, but to argue it is better then the BMW is surely delusional.

No, it's the ignorant bigots like you who are deluded.

Right. So, to you everything is equal is it? All things are equal are they? Nothing is better than anything else right? Or is it that we are not permitted opinion? What is it that qualifies me as a bigot? Is it my opinion that a developed European country like the Uk is generally better than a developing country like Thailand? Have I really stretched my reasoning so far?

You have .... IF you are living in Thailand

[Deeral]

...

...

Ok, Ok, I get your point - i was a little bit harsh on you with my comments (understatement of the year maybe) and served you quite an injustice (especially on the intelligence and lack of vocabulary etc: stakes) as you are clearly nothing of the sort. I will be more constructive now and in the future myself as against my misjudged effort where I dealt with you so unfairly through my lack of research in this instance.

I have lived in a town called Sichon in Nakhonsithammarat, Southern Thailand with my wife for nearly 3 years now. It is the usual mix of poor and rich, young and old although it is not full of poverty like some towns in the North, East and the West. I cannot, and do not claim to have wittnessed much in the way of extreme poverty in Thailand (or elseware) so cannot comment on this specifically. I can comment however on the example that you cited and although I don't doubt it's authenticity and validity I do not think this the correct way to assess this point.

"Ironically I just heard a report on the radio today about a study done by A--/out of u/ mption....Ah never mind you get the idea University where as they polled a given number of provinces and asked the level of peoples happiness and to me anyway not surprisingly the farmers in the north with their simple life styles were the happiest and the most unhappy province with their dog eat dog never get enough mentality was Phuket".

I think that poverty stricken people learn (its a necessity essentially) to accept their predicament and are forced to adapt accordingly so that they can live within their means. On account of this they tend to enjoy the small and simple things in life and can cope with literally everything thrown at them. The rich elite (other end of the poverty scale) that can holiday in 5 star hotels every 3 months or so in some 'paradise' location in Bali or Mauritius will soon tire of this lifestyle and having 'splashed the cash' they will get bored when they have had their fun and come back to their comparatively mundane way of life in their mansion. This accepted, I wouldn't mind betting that if you offered somebody the choice of exchanging their poverty stricken lives for one where they can own some land, build a house, have their own car, start their own business and afford some luxuries they would choose this lifestyle over their existing one (whether they are as happy as Larry, or not). There will always be exceptions (as in the case of the 2 brothers you quote in your example and those farmers you mention) but these will be an extremely small minority in the general scheme of things and it's certainly possible that they are making it out that they are happy so as to hide their envy. Contentment isn't the same as happiness as you don't always have the choices or means to achieve the first one and it's how (or whether, more pertinently) you can achieve this with what you've got or been given. Happiness is what you are and is more associated with your character and personality and is governed more or less by how you approach life and what your expectations are. Somebody with low expectations can obtain both forms quite easily whereas somebody with high expectations will struggle to obtain either without the resources needed to do so.

My point is: a massive majority of people strive for much higher things than having to live in such abject poverty (why do so many people spend their hard cash doing the lottery with the remotest of remote of chances of winning big) but not achieving your expectations doesn't always equate to unhappiness in life - clearly its what you make of it that counts mostly.

Perhaps the reason people remain poor is becuase they are happy, and therefore not motivated to change their conditions.

Whereas, people who are driven by ambition and greed will never be happy, since they aspire not to any specific objective - they are driven not by a lack of something, or a specific objective, but only by greed and ambition

That's another thing that Thais and Farangs have in common; some are greedy and ambitious, some are not

SC

Who are you? Marie Antoinette.?

[Deeral]

If you look at the hardware etc in those photos - you'll see that those guys are anything but poor - furthermore they have the option of moving - it is the lack of options and oportunity that qulifiessomeone as poor - the fact that their circumstances might last forever.

I didn't say they were poor. I said they lived far below the so called "povery line". I don't know what hardware you are referring to, but that is $200 rebuilt trike (not a quad, and now not legal).

The motorbike they shared between them and cost $400 which they also rebuilt it from parts. They each had a $200 beater car that they drove until it died. What I DID say is they both were happy and thought they were kings of their realm. And, this is what brings me back to the comparison beween poverty in Thailand as compared to poverty in Canada or the USA. In North America we have the option of NOT living in poverty if we are willing to work. That is not always an option in Thailand. But, whether you have money or not does not make you happy or sad. Very often happiness IS a personal choice. Yes, most people, including myself, could always use a little more money, but it won't always relate to an increase in happiness.

think about the cost to a Thai farmer!

[zzaa09]

...

...

Ok, Ok, I get your point - i was a little bit harsh on you with my comments (understatement of the year maybe) and served you quite an injustice (especially on the intelligence and lack of vocabulary etc: stakes) as you are clearly nothing of the sort. I will be more constructive now and in the future myself as against my misjudged effort where I dealt with you so unfairly through my lack of research in this instance.

I have lived in a town called Sichon in Nakhonsithammarat, Southern Thailand with my wife for nearly 3 years now. It is the usual mix of poor and rich, young and old although it is not full of poverty like some towns in the North, East and the West. I cannot, and do not claim to have wittnessed much in the way of extreme poverty in Thailand (or elseware) so cannot comment on this specifically. I can comment however on the example that you cited and although I don't doubt it's authenticity and validity I do not think this the correct way to assess this point.

"Ironically I just heard a report on the radio today about a study done by A--/out of u/ mption....Ah never mind you get the idea University where as they polled a given number of provinces and asked the level of peoples happiness and to me anyway not surprisingly the farmers in the north with their simple life styles were the happiest and the most unhappy province with their dog eat dog never get enough mentality was Phuket".

I think that poverty stricken people learn (its a necessity essentially) to accept their predicament and are forced to adapt accordingly so that they can live within their means. On account of this they tend to enjoy the small and simple things in life and can cope with literally everything thrown at them. The rich elite (other end of the poverty scale) that can holiday in 5 star hotels every 3 months or so in some 'paradise' location in Bali or Mauritius will soon tire of this lifestyle and having 'splashed the cash' they will get bored when they have had their fun and come back to their comparatively mundane way of life in their mansion. This accepted, I wouldn't mind betting that if you offered somebody the choice of exchanging their poverty stricken lives for one where they can own some land, build a house, have their own car, start their own business and afford some luxuries they would choose this lifestyle over their existing one (whether they are as happy as Larry, or not). There will always be exceptions (as in the case of the 2 brothers you quote in your example and those farmers you mention) but these will be an extremely small minority in the general scheme of things and it's certainly possible that they are making it out that they are happy so as to hide their envy. Contentment isn't the same as happiness as you don't always have the choices or means to achieve the first one and it's how (or whether, more pertinently) you can achieve this with what you've got or been given. Happiness is what you are and is more associated with your character and personality and is governed more or less by how you approach life and what your expectations are. Somebody with low expectations can obtain both forms quite easily whereas somebody with high expectations will struggle to obtain either without the resources needed to do so.

My point is: a massive majority of people strive for much higher things than having to live in such abject poverty (why do so many people spend their hard cash doing the lottery with the remotest of remote of chances of winning big) but not achieving your expectations doesn't always equate to unhappiness in life - clearly its what you make of it that counts mostly.

Perhaps the reason people remain poor is becuase they are happy, and therefore not motivated to change their conditions.

Whereas, people who are driven by ambition and greed will never be happy, since they aspire not to any specific objective - they are driven not by a lack of something, or a specific objective, but only by greed and ambition

That's another thing that Thais and Farangs have in common; some are greedy and ambitious, some are not

SC

Who are you? Marie Antoinette.?

Perhaps you would feel more comfortable using a Thai reference?

[SICHONSTEVE]

...

...

Ok, Ok, I get your point - i was a little bit harsh on you with my comments (understatement of the year maybe) and served you quite an injustice (especially on the intelligence and lack of vocabulary etc: stakes) as you are clearly nothing of the sort. I will be more constructive now and in the future myself as against my misjudged effort where I dealt with you so unfairly through my lack of research in this instance.

I have lived in a town called Sichon in Nakhonsithammarat, Southern Thailand with my wife for nearly 3 years now. It is the usual mix of poor and rich, young and old although it is not full of poverty like some towns in the North, East and the West. I cannot, and do not claim to have wittnessed much in the way of extreme poverty in Thailand (or elseware) so cannot comment on this specifically. I can comment however on the example that you cited and although I don't doubt it's authenticity and validity I do not think this the correct way to assess this point.

"Ironically I just heard a report on the radio today about a study done by A--/out of u/ mption....Ah never mind you get the idea University where as they polled a given number of provinces and asked the level of peoples happiness and to me anyway not surprisingly the farmers in the north with their simple life styles were the happiest and the most unhappy province with their dog eat dog never get enough mentality was Phuket".

I think that poverty stricken people learn (its a necessity essentially) to accept their predicament and are forced to adapt accordingly so that they can live within their means. On account of this they tend to enjoy the small and simple things in life and can cope with literally everything thrown at them. The rich elite (other end of the poverty scale) that can holiday in 5 star hotels every 3 months or so in some 'paradise' location in Bali or Mauritius will soon tire of this lifestyle and having 'splashed the cash' they will get bored when they have had their fun and come back to their comparatively mundane way of life in their mansion. This accepted, I wouldn't mind betting that if you offered somebody the choice of exchanging their poverty stricken lives for one where they can own some land, build a house, have their own car, start their own business and afford some luxuries they would choose this lifestyle over their existing one (whether they are as happy as Larry, or not). There will always be exceptions (as in the case of the 2 brothers you quote in your example and those farmers you mention) but these will be an extremely small minority in the general scheme of things and it's certainly possible that they are making it out that they are happy so as to hide their envy. Contentment isn't the same as happiness as you don't always have the choices or means to achieve the first one and it's how (or whether, more pertinently) you can achieve this with what you've got or been given. Happiness is what you are and is more associated with your character and personality and is governed more or less by how you approach life and what your expectations are. Somebody with low expectations can obtain both forms quite easily whereas somebody with high expectations will struggle to obtain either without the resources needed to do so.

My point is: a massive majority of people strive for much higher things than having to live in such abject poverty (why do so many people spend their hard cash doing the lottery with the remotest of remote of chances of winning big) but not achieving your expectations doesn't always equate to unhappiness in life - clearly its what you make of it that counts mostly.

Perhaps the reason people remain poor is becuase they are happy, and therefore not motivated to change their conditions.

Whereas, people who are driven by ambition and greed will never be happy, since they aspire not to any specific objective - they are driven not by a lack of something, or a specific objective, but only by greed and ambition

That's another thing that Thais and Farangs have in common; some are greedy and ambitious, some are not

SC

I'm afraid I don't agree with your surmissal as I'm sure that if they could change their conditions and become rich(er) they wouldn't hesitate to, in a majority of such situations.

You're second sentence doesn't really make sense as you cannot state that a commonality between Thai's and Farangs is that they are either greedy and ambitious (to some degree) or not at all, as everyone is one or the other be they Nepalese, French or from Bury in Lancashire, in varying degrees, so it isn't really saying anything!!!!!!

I think that if they would do anything to change their conditions, except work very hard, sacrifice their happiness, move away from their family, concentrate on education etc etc.

THe same reason that I do not earn more than I do, that I am not the boss of the company... because while it might be nice, I am not willing to make the necessary sacrifices, and I do not have the drive and ambition for it.

If I was a more ambitous person, or greedier, I might be more successful or richer, but probably not happier; if I was more diligent and frugal, I would probably be more successful and richer as well...

You have my point exactly; people regardless of race may be ambitious and greedy, or not. In fact, people are generally more differentiated within a race than between races, though culture may affect how they behave and think.

But culture is less than skin deep, and can be changed within a generation or two, if one is willing to make the effort.

SC

There's one key word missing - opportunity!!!!

Does your salary leave you in poverty whereby you have to scrape a living to put food on the table?? I doubt it, so having the opportunity (there's that word again) by trying to better yourself is often a personal choice open to you as to whether you want to prosper in life and doesn't therefore hold the same validity as with someone trying to do something in order to survive.

You may have the opportunity (there's.......) to achieve your ambitions and aspirations to grow your wealth, then happiness may or may not be the end result as It usually depends on what you do with it, and how you handle it that shapes the outcome, many people fail to do this - remember Viv Nicholson with her spend,spend,spend attitude?? it didn't exactly bring her happiness, well not after the money ran out anyway!! Conversely, multi billionaire Richard Branson seems well happy with life, I'm sure you'll agree, with that perma-grin that's fixed on to his ugly ginger haired mug, whether he's flying high in his balloon, on one of his planes serving his customers dressed up as a stewardess with full make up and a wig (a definite improvement methinks) after losing a bet with one of his rich mates (I'm convinced he's a frustrated katoey), or even when he's prancing around like a ninny trying to promote the "keep Britain tidy" campaign in the eighties!! Still, you have to admire him and what he's done with his life though!! Bless thim!!!!

Why not just say 'people can have ambitious aims and be(come) greedy, or not', full stop, as race is an irrelevant aspect as far as I'm concerned whether within or between different races in the given concept that you are still insisting on purporting to be the case for some strange reason.

Culture is NOT skin deep!! it is what it is. It doesn't change, but it can evolve, as you cannot just simply erase past cultural aspects because new ones have been introduced (changed as you put it) - it has always and will always be there ( entwined in a nations history). Example: try telling an old Thai person that traditional Thai dances that they used to dance to when they were children don't exist anymore as they have been replaced by more modern 'pop disco' versions and so they must be lying when they say they used to do this many moon's ago!!! Get my point???

Finally, why do you regard it as so necessary to change a culture anyway (as if it's a positive thing) "if one is willing to make the effort" as you succinctly put it - a new culture isn't that at all as it is something that existed ONLY in previous generations and you're so called culture change will only come into being in FUTURE generations to come and cannot be termed as such, until this time!!! Culture is more relevent in times past and future new ones will not be truly cultural as far as I'm concerned as "culture is undoubtedly dying out in reality" due to the advancement of technology. Do you think that in a generation or two's time, telling you're grandchildren about the 'good old times' of (out moded) I'pods and 60 inch plasma TV screens that you laughingly used to listen to and watch, will have quite the same ring to it as when people used to listen to their 'Bush' transistor radio's' because in them "good old days" they couldn't afford a TV.

No, I thought not!!!

[IanForbes]

If you look at the hardware etc in those photos - you'll see that those guys are anything but poor - furthermore they have the option of moving - it is the lack of options and oportunity that qulifiessomeone as poor - the fact that their circumstances might last forever.

I didn't say they were poor. I said they lived far below the so called "povery line". I don't know what hardware you are referring to, but that is $200 rebuilt trike (not a quad, and now not legal).

The motorbike they shared between them and cost $400 which they also rebuilt it from parts. They each had a $200 beater car that they drove until it died. What I DID say is they both were happy and thought they were kings of their realm. And, this is what brings me back to the comparison beween poverty in Thailand as compared to poverty in Canada or the USA. In North America we have the option of NOT living in poverty if we are willing to work. That is not always an option in Thailand. But, whether you have money or not does not make you happy or sad. Very often happiness IS a personal choice. Yes, most people, including myself, could always use a little more money, but it won't always relate to an increase in happiness.

think about the cost to a Thai farmer!

Good point, but then a Thai farmer is not having to cope with minus 40 degree weather, either. And he can plant crops for almost 12 months of the year.

This thread has taken a change in direction, and for the better in my point of view. There have been many good points raised in a somewhat adult fashion, and without a lot of insults.

As others have already noted, people adapt to their environment or they leave. Or, in some cases they die. Somehow a few people can survive in very harsh environments and still remain happy where they are. It would be an interesting study in humanity why that is so. Take for example, the Inuit people in the Arctic. Why would anyone CHOOSE to live in such a harsh environment? But, I've visited the arctic more than a few times and met with the inhabitants, and many are very happy people. The ones who arent were introduced to alcoholic beverages from more friendly climates. It was such a problem that many village elders made their areas "Booze free" zones.