Jatuporn Says Abhisit, Suthep 'Collude To Kill People'

[KKvampire]

the Lies from Jutaporn and Poo Thai are nauseating, but it fires up their constituency who want to believe anything to enforce the hatred and Anti Thailand feelings.

[Pi Sek]

If Abhist did not order the killings, who did?

was abhisit in control or not? Did someone follow his orders or disobey his orders?

If he did not give the order who took it upon themselves to give the order?

In this matter the PM was in charge, he either admits he gave the decision, or he admits he was not in control of the situation, if he handed control to the army then let him say who in the armed forces gave the order, and what was the order?

Let's have some transparency here.

As for the centralworld issue, I am guessing none of us were actually in centralworld at the time so none of us are in a position to offer a factual decision on that matter.

I said before and I will say it again, at some point the dems will have themselves painted into a corner with their lies and will be left with nowhere to go other than to admit the truth or end up looking very foolish, lies and diversions soon get found out and leave the individual or group of individuals looking like what they are, liars.

Why must there have been an order. I doubt any such order [to kill protesters] was ever given or even contemplated being given. I would expect the instruction passed down, would have been along the lines of use reasonable and justifiable force and only fire, if fired apon. I would expect therefore that as the army were being shot at, having homemade bombs and grenades thrown at them with the intention to injury or kill soliders, then in this instance reasonable and justifiable force would includes shoot to kill and in such circumstances the army would have engaged using these criteria These are rules of engagement and all armies operate under them in all countries.

So no one gave the order, just the rules of engagement.

The only Liars here are PTP and Jatuporn. I spent three days watching the action unfold along rama IV road from Klong Toei intersection, then intention of elements of the people there was to kill the army, weapons both homemade and otherwise were also on display and i saw them being transported to the 'front line'. These people were organised and co-ordinated using walki talkies and phones to plan their moves / attacks. I also heard loud explosions which i presume were an array of bombs, grenades or firecrackers.

How dare you suggest that such an unorganised and uncivilised criminal organisation have policies such as "rules of engagement". Pff. It's not like they were threatened by by "guerilla warfare" is it?

Seriously, though, reasonable and justifiable force against M79 grenades is lethal force. The common pro-Red argument was that the army used lethal force where it was not reasonable and justifiable - and they may have a point. But the army couldn't really make a perfect judgement when home made rockets and stones/marbles from catupults and bullets and grenades were being shot from areas whose visibility had been obscured by thick black rubber smoke - something for which the Reds, I'm afraid, have only themselves to blame.

Equally though the Reds would claim they used "reasonable and justifiable force" in the face of "excessive force". Personally I would disagree, especially since they had no justification for any force whatsoever.

Quick question to the Reds on here - do you think the army would have gone in on 10 April if Kwanchai hadn't led a 300-strong assault on the 1st Infantry and Arisaman's rabble hadn't stormed Govt House on 9 April? And how many of you seriously think the Ronin didn't shoot protesters on 10 April?

[Oberkommando]

What's embarrassing about a Buddhist wearing a Buddhist amulet?

Nothing if you drive a motorcy taxi for a living.

I also find the consultation of fortune tellers by so-called educated politicians embarrassing.

Maybe I expect too much of people that make decisions on behalf of millions of others.

[tragickingdom]

Jatuporn is right of course. Everybody knows. Suthep the man who was saved by the house dissolution during the Chuan era should have been send to jail than for giving land destined for the poor to his cronies and big companies. He should have gone to jail for ordering soldiers to fire on protestors and sending them in in the first place instead of riot police and he should have gone to jail now for colluding in make his Southern friends richer than they are even are by pocketing 8 billion in Palm oil subsidies while creating an artificial shortage and importing cheaper oil from Malaysia. There are good hopes that Abhisit eventually can be charged due to the fact that he is British too and has used and extended his passport many times. Suthep however can only be stopped by doing the same thing to him as what he does to others.

[TAWP]

Jatuporn is right of course. Everybody knows. Suthep the man who was saved by the house dissolution during the Chuan era should have been send to jail than for giving land destined for the poor to his cronies and big companies. He should have gone to jail for ordering soldiers to fire on protestors and sending them in in the first place instead of riot police and he should have gone to jail now for colluding in make his Southern friends richer than they are even are by pocketing 8 billion in Palm oil subsidies while creating an artificial shortage and importing cheaper oil from Malaysia. There are good hopes that Abhisit eventually can be charged due to the fact that he is British too and has used and extended his passport many times. Suthep however can only be stopped by doing the same thing to him as what he does to others.

Allegations without proof, wonderful.

Jutaporn, is that you?

On second thought, not even Jutaporn has asserted that Abhisit has ever had, has used or have extended a British passport several times -- so Mr 'tragickingdom', do tell where you get your fables from.

Edited March 18, 2011 by TAWP

[ableguy]

The problem with Jutaporn is Jutaporn! This motor mouth who incited civil unrest, propagated abstinence by mobs from rule of law and then condoned destruction of property and continues to hide behind parliamentary privilege, may well try to expose 13 of the 90+ deaths as being at the hands of soldiers. Trying to divert focus from the fact his mob by their actions caused all the deaths is his cowardly way of attacking , as being the best form of defense. Sadly he believes his own lies. He need some serious psychological assistance. Imagine this guy running Thailand?

Agree 100% the guy is a crackpot, sadly there are many crackpots in Thailand polatics but it seem your mental state is not important, just the money man just the money.

[Pi Sek]

What's embarrassing about a Buddhist wearing a Buddhist amulet?

Nothing if you drive a motorcy taxi for a living.

I also find the consultation of fortune tellers by so-called educated politicians embarrassing.

Maybe I expect too much of people that make decisions on behalf of millions of others.

Sorry, I find that preposterous. Education and profession have no bearing on "Faith".

Politicians' consulting fortune tellers, however, is something I would find embarrassing (as was the case with the Surayudh-governed junta of 2006/07) - as with expensive projects for Feng Shui gardening at Govt House. If it had a proven track record of high accuracy, then there may be ground to do so but, as far as I know, it doesn't.

[animatic]

Giving the order to

use necessary force to remove and illegal rally from public land

is not the same thing as

you are ordered to kill these red shirt people.

The difference between the accusations and the reality.

[Pi Sek]

Jatuporn is right of course. Everybody knows. Suthep the man who was saved by the house dissolution during the Chuan era should have been send to jail than for giving land destined for the poor to his cronies and big companies. He should have gone to jail for ordering soldiers to fire on protestors and sending them in in the first place instead of riot police and he should have gone to jail now for colluding in make his Southern friends richer than they are even are by pocketing 8 billion in Palm oil subsidies while creating an artificial shortage and importing cheaper oil from Malaysia. There are good hopes that Abhisit eventually can be charged due to the fact that he is British too and has used and extended his passport many times. Suthep however can only be stopped by doing the same thing to him as what he does to others.

Allegations without proof, wonderful.

Jutaporn, is that you?

On second thought, not even Jutaporn has asserted that Abhisit has ever had, has used or have extended a British passport several times -- so Mr 'tragickingdom', do tell where you get your fables from.

Suthep is clearly a shady character, who will line his pockets if he is given the opportunity.

Abhisit might have done something wrong, but it really doesn't look like it. The only thing he is definitely guilty of is putting too much faith in those around him. But what else is he supposed to do?

As regards this statement that Abhisit has "used and extended his passport many times" - I smell something faecal and bovine in the air.

[animatic]

But it certainly is something else when your culture minister proposes that phallus symbols be made into a national souvenir, with an authenticity certificate to prove that it's "Thailand's pride."

About as embarrassing as an Oxford educated Prime Minister wearing protective amulets IMO.

At least he's not a dick about it

Ah yes,

god forbid he might wear a crucifix around his neck while in office too. There are many types of amulets in Thailand, some are just Buddhist symbolism others allege powers not in evidence, but elicit responses of faith.

No doubt Oxford has a large proportion of ecclesiastical graduates. Noting under graduate studies such as

Religion, see

• 
  Applied Theology | MTh
• 
  Classical Indian Religion | MSc
• 
  Eastern Christian Studies | MPhil
• 
  Study of Religion | MSt
• 
  Theology | DPhil, MPhil, MSt, PGDiploma

Seem like you are insulting Thailands religion by implying wearing Buddhist religious iconography is somehow below an Oxford grads intelligence. You seem to have embarrassed yourself in your zeal.

Edited March 18, 2011 by animatic

[rubl]

If Abhist did not order the killings, who did?

was abhisit in control or not? Did someone follow his orders or disobey his orders?

If he did not give the order who took it upon themselves to give the order?

In this matter the PM was in charge, he either admits he gave the decision, or he admits he was not in control of the situation, if he handed control to the army then let him say who in the armed forces gave the order, and what was the order?

Let's have some transparency here.

As for the centralworld issue, I am guessing none of us were actually in centralworld at the time so none of us are in a position to offer a factual decision on that matter.

I said before and I will say it again, at some point the dems will have themselves painted into a corner with their lies and will be left with nowhere to go other than to admit the truth or end up looking very foolish, lies and diversions soon get found out and leave the individual or group of individuals looking like what they are, liars.

As it seems very unlikely PM Abhisit ordered killings and till now it's unproven, we must assume no direct order has been given. Just a normal 'cleanup as painlessly as possible'. That includes returned gunfire to 'unarmed, peaceful protesters'. Any speculation on 'order to kill' is just that.

As for CentralWorld, correct I wasn't there, I also wasn't at CenterOne, Stock-exchange, Channel3, 7/11 RamaIV, BTS KlongTeui, BTS Ratchadamri, etc., etc. Lots of red-shirts were, watch some other VDO for a change.

Is this government without blame? Probably not. Is this government guilty of murder? No. With all grenade attacks, bloodshed became unavoidable. It's really interesting to hear k. Jatuporn call some murderers, to be executed, he who shouted day and night 'I will fight till the last drop of (your) blood'.

Be real, open your eyes.

[random]

Giving the order to

use necessary force to remove and illegal rally from public land

is not the same thing as

you are ordered to kill these red shirt people.

The difference between the accusations and the reality.

was it necessary to shoot unarmed people sheltering in a temple, I fail to see how they were an immediate threat to ones safety, was sah daeng an immediate threat while talking with reporters whilst unarmed, that was not necessary force, was the soldier shot in his head by his colleague while riding his motorcycle to give assistance, while wearing full uniform and in no way constituting a threat necessary?

the fact is that not all of those killed were a direct threat, or indeed armed, they were still shot and killed however. Someone gave the order to use lethal force, if the order was to only use it to protect yourself from an immediate threat then clearly this order was not followed.

One thing is certain, that when stuff like this does happen the buck stops with the head, and the head is the PM, in my opinion he had no control during this time, the alternative to him not having control is that he did have control and allowed/ordered these deaths.

Which one do you prefer, a PM that had no control of the situation, or a PM that stood idly by while his armed forces were shooting unarmed people on the streets of the capital city?

the other option would have been to hold an election, as even the Finance Minister himself says there is a certain unfairness in the way they came to power, but I guess when you can't win an election for the past decade they will do WHATEVER they can to cling onto power, even if that means the slaughter of unarmed people on the streets of the capital, either under orders of the PM, or with his full knowledge and acceptance, like I saw the other option to this is that the PM was not in control of the situation.

People that say that you can't allow mob rule to dictate what happens, well it worked for the yellows.

[random]

If Abhist did not order the killings, who did?

was abhisit in control or not? Did someone follow his orders or disobey his orders?

If he did not give the order who took it upon themselves to give the order?

In this matter the PM was in charge, he either admits he gave the decision, or he admits he was not in control of the situation, if he handed control to the army then let him say who in the armed forces gave the order, and what was the order?

Let's have some transparency here.

As for the centralworld issue, I am guessing none of us were actually in centralworld at the time so none of us are in a position to offer a factual decision on that matter.

I said before and I will say it again, at some point the dems will have themselves painted into a corner with their lies and will be left with nowhere to go other than to admit the truth or end up looking very foolish, lies and diversions soon get found out and leave the individual or group of individuals looking like what they are, liars.

As it seems very unlikely PM Abhisit ordered killings and till now it's unproven, we must assume no direct order has been given. Just a normal 'cleanup as painlessly as possible'. That includes returned gunfire to 'unarmed, peaceful protesters'. Any speculation on 'order to kill' is just that.

As for CentralWorld, correct I wasn't there, I also wasn't at CenterOne, Stock-exchange, Channel3, 7/11 RamaIV, BTS KlongTeui, BTS Ratchadamri, etc., etc. Lots of red-shirts were, watch some other VDO for a change.

Is this government without blame? Probably not. Is this government guilty of murder? No. With all grenade attacks, bloodshed became unavoidable. It's really interesting to hear k. Jatuporn call some murderers, to be executed, he who shouted day and night 'I will fight till the last drop of (your) blood'.

Be real, open your eyes.

My eyes are open, I don't for one minute thing the reds are innocent in all of this, but I would rather the blame be apportioned fairly, and what the government are to blame for then lets blame them, what the reds are to blame for then lets blame them, any ambiguity such as the torching of central world is just that, ambiguity, however I find it a little strange that the fire occurred while under control of the military and that nobody has ever been arrested or charged with this offence.

I have read reports from people that were there, I will base my opinions on those reports, which seem more feasible, and since the government are adept at putting out false propaganda then some suspicion does have to fall there.

maybe one day the truth will out, probably when the dems are no longer controlling the courts/dsi/media etc

[animatic]

Giving the order to

use necessary force to remove and illegal rally from public land

is not the same thing as

you are ordered to kill these red shirt people.

The difference between the accusations and the reality.

was it necessary to shoot unarmed people sheltering in a temple, I fail to see how they were an immediate threat to ones safety, was sah daeng an immediate threat while talking with reporters whilst unarmed, that was not necessary force, was the soldier shot in his head by his colleague while riding his motorcycle to give assistance, while wearing full uniform and in no way constituting a threat necessary?

the fact is that not all of those killed were a direct threat, or indeed armed, they were still shot and killed however. Someone gave the order to use lethal force, if the order was to only use it to protect yourself from an immediate threat then clearly this order was not followed.

One thing is certain, that when stuff like this does happen the buck stops with the head, and the head is the PM, in my opinion he had no control during this time, the alternative to him not having control is that he did have control and allowed/ordered these deaths.

Which one do you prefer, a PM that had no control of the situation, or a PM that stood idly by while his armed forces were shooting unarmed people on the streets of the capital city?

the other option would have been to hold an election, as even the Finance Minister himself says there is a certain unfairness in the way they came to power, but I guess when you can't win an election for the past decade they will do WHATEVER they can to cling onto power, even if that means the slaughter of unarmed people on the streets of the capital, either under orders of the PM, or with his full knowledge and acceptance, like I saw the other option to this is that the PM was not in control of the situation.

People that say that you c personel an't allow mob rule to dictate what happens, well it worked for the yellows.

It has yet to be proven that any actual army were involved in shooting innocents in the Wat.

And having ringers or Black ops guys shooting past them to add to the body count to be attributed to the army sounds just like the rest of the whole Red game plan to bring down the government by causing a uprising against it and the army. Who would gain by those deaths? Not the army nor the government. The Red side certainly would see political traction in it.

But was any order given at any time to shoot people in that wat?

Was there any order given by anyone on the government to shoot in the wat?

Were any soldiers shot at from within the wat?

We know the offered election was turned down, on television no less, by the Red Leaders.

Who ever has been behind this debacle appeared to have the aim of removing the Dem and army leadership permanently from the scene. So as to open up the playing field minus nagging voices of common sense ringing in the publics ears. They are still trying to remove their political nemesis by what ever means they can leverage.

[rubl]

The UDD has taped for posterity all their hate speeches from the stage at Ratchaprasong, broadcasted them on PTV. And now the government is guilty of killing innocents, those lovable 'peaceful protesters, not terrorists'.

In 2009 the PTP came with a nicely doctored tape with PM Abhisit seemingly saying 'kill them all'. Even now some will have PM Abhisit 'ordered' killing, and if not he's still to blame. Some logic there escapes me, probably not present.

K. Jatuporn was in his 'Ratchaprasong stage' shouting mood last night. Maybe he thinks it will be easier for people to believe him. Lots of claims, 'everyone knows', 'original' reports, colourful pictures of dead and bloody people. Somehow only red-shirts and nurses at the Wat mentioned, nothing about army / police casualties, a few innocent bystanders.

I'm afraid this censure debate will only make people harden in their current opinion, none may be swayed. Reconciliation? Poor Thailand

[rubl]

My eyes are open, I don't for one minute thing the reds are innocent in all of this, but I would rather the blame be apportioned fairly, and what the government are to blame for then lets blame them, what the reds are to blame for then lets blame them, any ambiguity such as the torching of central world is just that, ambiguity, however I find it a little strange that the fire occurred while under control of the military and that nobody has ever been arrested or charged with this offence.

I have read reports from people that were there, I will base my opinions on those reports, which seem more feasible, and since the government are adept at putting out false propaganda then some suspicion does have to fall there.

maybe one day the truth will out, probably when the dems are no longer controlling the courts/dsi/media etc

Interestingly there is no proof for lots of things which happened during March - May 2010. This leads to massive speculation related to one's personal viewpoints.

The 'I have seen', 'I have read' reminds me of some who also said 'I've seen it with my own eyes', meaning the VDO rather than having been there. Well, I saw the pink-shirts under BTS Saladaeng a few hours before someone lobbed some grenades on them, no proof, must be government for sure, I can almost hear PM Abhisit say 'kill me some'.

Random, we will never agree on any of this I'm afraid. The future may tell who's right, but as far as I'm concerned it won't be you. IMHO of course.

[Buchholz]

Jatuporn is right of course. Everybody knows.

Someone who knows more than you about him...

Mum tells UDD leader: Stop it

The elderly mother of United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) leader and opposition Puea Thai MP Jatuporn Prompan has told him to stop damaging the country.

Nuam Buakaew, aged 90, called on Mr Jatuporn to stop protesting against the government and to stop criticising Privy Council president and Statesman Prem Tinsulanonda from the UDD stage.

Mrs Nuam said her son's activities made her feel uncomfortable because she feared he was causing harm to the country.

Mr Jatuporn's mother, who lives in the southern province of Surat Thani, said she had tried to phone her son, but he never answered or called her back.

"I would like my son to stop what he is doing now, because I am worried about his actions," Mrs Nuam said.

very prophetic words coming from his mother... spoken a year before Jatuporn's May Mayhem 2010

[Buchholz]

Giving the order to

use necessary force to remove and illegal rally from public land

is not the same thing as

you are ordered to kill these red shirt people.

The difference between the accusations and the reality.

It's also the difference between real and doctored audiotapes.

[rubl]

From the censure debate (#terryfrd):

The only truthful statement Suthep made today was when he introduced himself as Suthep Thuagsuban, Jatuporn says.

Jatuporn denies telling upcountry reds to burn city halls -- told them to use their own discretion, he says.

More conspiracy theories from Jatuporn, suggesting AV received advanced news from const court of PPP dissolution at a Samsen restaurant

Jatuporn brings up Wikileaks, asking why nothing was done abt statements made by certain respected figures. Double standards

Jatuporn getting all past grievances off his chest, accusing Suthep of involvement w. everything from dissolution of TRT to airport seizure

Jatuporn ends by suggesting Suthep visit a psychiatrist.

Good fun

[jonclark]

If Abhist did not order the killings, who did?

was abhisit in control or not? Did someone follow his orders or disobey his orders?

If he did not give the order who took it upon themselves to give the order?

In this matter the PM was in charge, he either admits he gave the decision, or he admits he was not in control of the situation, if he handed control to the army then let him say who in the armed forces gave the order, and what was the order?

Let's have some transparency here.

As for the centralworld issue, I am guessing none of us were actually in centralworld at the time so none of us are in a position to offer a factual decision on that matter.

I said before and I will say it again, at some point the dems will have themselves painted into a corner with their lies and will be left with nowhere to go other than to admit the truth or end up looking very foolish, lies and diversions soon get found out and leave the individual or group of individuals looking like what they are, liars.

As it seems very unlikely PM Abhisit ordered killings and till now it's unproven, we must assume no direct order has been given. Just a normal 'cleanup as painlessly as possible'. That includes returned gunfire to 'unarmed, peaceful protesters'. Any speculation on 'order to kill' is just that.

As for CentralWorld, correct I wasn't there, I also wasn't at CenterOne, Stock-exchange, Channel3, 7/11 RamaIV, BTS KlongTeui, BTS Ratchadamri, etc., etc. Lots of red-shirts were, watch some other VDO for a change.

Is this government without blame? Probably not. Is this government guilty of murder? No. With all grenade attacks, bloodshed became unavoidable. It's really interesting to hear k. Jatuporn call some murderers, to be executed, he who shouted day and night 'I will fight till the last drop of (your) blood'.

Be real, open your eyes.

My eyes are open, I don't for one minute thing the reds are innocent in all of this, but I would rather the blame be apportioned fairly, and what the government are to blame for then lets blame them, what the reds are to blame for then lets blame them, any ambiguity such as the torching of central world is just that, ambiguity, however I find it a little strange that the fire occurred while under control of the military and that nobody has ever been arrested or charged with this offence.

I have read reports from people that were there, I will base my opinions on those reports, which seem more feasible, and since the government are adept at putting out false propaganda then some suspicion does have to fall there.

maybe one day the truth will out, probably when the dems are no longer controlling the courts/dsi/media etc

You seem to have a clear picture of what the goverment needs to be blamed for, yet acknowldge the reds should also be blamed, as you state blame shoudl be apportioned fairly.

So random - What in your view should the reds be blamed for; held accountable for and more importantly serve jail time for. Please give specifics .

[Buchholz]

Jatuporn yesterday

More polling...

54.2% of the respondents wanted to see MPs debating without distorting information or making groundless allegations.

59.8% of the respondents believed that there would still be offensive wordings in this censure debate

From the censure debate (#terryfrd):

The only truthful statement Suthep made today was when he introduced himself as Suthep Thuagsuban, Jatuporn says.

Jatuporn denies telling upcountry reds to burn city halls -- told them to use their own discretion, he says.

More conspiracy theories from Jatuporn, suggesting AV received advanced news from const court of PPP dissolution at a Samsen restaurant

Jatuporn brings up Wikileaks, asking why nothing was done abt statements made by certain respected figures. Double standards

Jatuporn getting all past grievances off his chest, accusing Suthep of involvement w. everything from dissolution of TRT to airport seizure

Jatuporn ends by suggesting Suthep visit a psychiatrist.

Looks like the majority of Thais didn't get what they wanted, but the majority were right in what they expected.

[jdinasia]

Their only hope of successfully bringing down the government was through violence

Or an election. Which is what it was all about.

If it were about elections then PTP/UDD could have had their elections by now without ever having to have thrown the first petrol bomb on April 9th. 2010. They were given the promise of elections prior to April. on LIVE TV with the whole country watching. They knew (and sadly still know) that violence is the only option for them since in all likelihood they will not be able to form a coalition to lead Thailand's next government.

[philhal2]

The problem with Jutaporn is Jutaporn! This motor mouth who incited civil unrest, propagated abstinence by mobs from rule of law and then condoned destruction of property and continues to hide behind parliamentary privilege, may well try to expose 13 of the 90+ deaths as being at the hands of soldiers. Trying to divert focus from the fact his mob by their actions caused all the deaths is his cowardly way of attacking , as being the best form of defense. Sadly he believes his own lies. He need some serious psychological assistance. Imagine this guy running Thailand?

SCARY PART IS HE MAY HAVE PURCHASED ENOUGH VOTES . Outgoing Government should make law to ensure votes cant be purchased .

[lungmi]

It dawned on me, this people are ghouls; they had been feeding on the corpses of the people killed in the violence they incited.

In the name of power, money and their ego; I hope they'll never get to govern Thailand, now they send thinly veiled death threads, once in power there will be blood.

Remember that their actions directly, and I believe intentionally, lead to these deaths for exactly this reason. To use these dead as a cudgel to bring down the government any way they can. Same as they tried the year before. Even to the point of trying to say ANY dead found in Bangkok anywhere must have been killed by the military. And saying many just disappeared, and yet no family members have reported them missing...

There were many times the Red Leaders could have backed down and stopped the violence, they were give many face saving options, that they refused. They were CALLLING FOR THE VIOLENCE. Their only hope of successfully bringing down the government was through violence and eliciting a sense of revulsion in the average Thai for the army and government for the violence.

Lets not forget the Reds raiding the hospitals and stealing bodies to parade on the Red Stages to incite the public...ghouls and grave robbers.

The problem for the Reds is the media and communications structures of Thai public access have radically changed to allow much faster and more open information to be passed to more people in near real time, and this showed the Red Leaders to be malicious liars on such a regular basis, that it significantly undermined the false image they were trying to create.

As it had in the past, the army had shut down a public rally, but the motivations and the actions of both sides were much different now than they were in '73 and in the early 90's. This was obvious to the average Thai due tio greatly increased personal communications. The average middle class Bangkokian didn't respond as the Reds expected to the alleged provocations, but instead saw them for what they were, and attempt to return Bangkok to something resembling normality.

The Reds used a 20 year old communications mindset that didn't work. Things had changed, but their tactics didn't take any of that into account. Now the PTP is still attempting to make political hay with these deaths, but too many average Somchai citizens saw the whole charade unfold and asre not buying the lies as they might have back in the day. This is reflected in the several by-elections, and previous censure debate, that have gone on since the rally ended.

Seconded.

Argumentum ad hominem ad nauseum. It strikes back, law of Kamma.

[lungmi]

If Abhist did not order the killings, who did?

was abhisit in control or not? Did someone follow his orders or disobey his orders?

If he did not give the order who took it upon themselves to give the order?

In this matter the PM was in charge, he either admits he gave the decision, or he admits he was not in control of the situation, if he handed control to the army then let him say who in the armed forces gave the order, and what was the order?

Let's have some transparency here.

As for the centralworld issue, I am guessing none of us were actually in centralworld at the time so none of us are in a position to offer a factual decision on that matter.

I said before and I will say it again, at some point the dems will have themselves painted into a corner with their lies and will be left with nowhere to go other than to admit the truth or end up looking very foolish, lies and diversions soon get found out and leave the individual or group of individuals looking like what they are, liars.

I said before and I will say it again, at some point the Reds will have themselves painted into a corner with their lies and will be left with nowhere to go other than to admit the truth or end up looking very foolish, lies and diversions soon get found out and leave the individual or group of individuals looking like what they are, liars.

[timekeeper]

Their only hope of successfully bringing down the government was through violence

Or an election. Which is what it was all about.

they could have had that before it turned as violent as it did

Abhisit offered an election, on TV in front of millions, Thaksin declined by phone through his proxy............

[timekeeper]

But it certainly is something else when your culture minister proposes that phallus symbols be made into a national souvenir, with an authenticity certificate to prove that it's "Thailand's pride."

About as embarrassing as an Oxford educated Prime Minister wearing protective amulets IMO.

when in Rome.........

[timekeeper]

What's embarrassing about a Buddhist wearing a Buddhist amulet?

Nothing if you drive a motorcy taxi for a living.

I also find the consultation of fortune tellers by so-called educated politicians embarrassing.

Maybe I expect too much of people that make decisions on behalf of millions of others.

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2007/08/04/entry-1

I know that Thaksin Shinnawatr did consult ET, the well-known Burmese fortune-teller, on several occasions about his political moves. And I had always been wondering: Why didn't she warn him about the Sept 19, 2006 coup?

Well, perhaps she did. Perhaps, Thaksin didn't take her warning seriously enough.

A reporter from the UK's Daily Telegraph wrote yesterday that ET had advised Thaksin to remain outside Thailand between Sept 8 and 22 last year to avoid "bad luck"

[Buchholz]

ABAC Poll shows Peau Thai in a slight lead this week.

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RT @tulsathit: Dusit poll: Public disappointed with censure debate. 43 % impressed by Abhisit and 26% Jatuporn.

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[timekeeper]

Giving the order to

use necessary force to remove and illegal rally from public land

is not the same thing as

you are ordered to kill these red shirt people.

The difference between the accusations and the reality.

was it necessary to shoot unarmed people sheltering in a temple, I fail to see how they were an immediate threat to ones safety, was sah daeng an immediate threat while talking with reporters whilst unarmed, that was not necessary force, was the soldier shot in his head by his colleague while riding his motorcycle to give assistance, while wearing full uniform and in no way constituting a threat necessary?

the fact is that not all of those killed were a direct threat, or indeed armed, they were still shot and killed however. Someone gave the order to use lethal force, if the order was to only use it to protect yourself from an immediate threat then clearly this order was not followed.

One thing is certain, that when stuff like this does happen the buck stops with the head, and the head is the PM, in my opinion he had no control during this time, the alternative to him not having control is that he did have control and allowed/ordered these deaths.

Which one do you prefer, a PM that had no control of the situation, or a PM that stood idly by while his armed forces were shooting unarmed people on the streets of the capital city?

the other option would have been to hold an election, as even the Finance Minister himself says there is a certain unfairness in the way they came to power, but I guess when you can't win an election for the past decade they will do WHATEVER they can to cling onto power, even if that means the slaughter of unarmed people on the streets of the capital, either under orders of the PM, or with his full knowledge and acceptance, like I saw the other option to this is that the PM was not in control of the situation.

People that say that you can't allow mob rule to dictate what happens, well it worked for the yellows.

i would prefer to have someone who gets on with the job

Abhisit was slow starter preferring to talk rather than to act but he got there in the end

the reds were asked, then warned,then warned again

they violently provoked anyone they could to get a violent reaction

well after weeks of waiting they got one, and like most bullies, when they got a good hiding, they ran away and cried to their mamas about how badly they had been treated

they are still crying about it

truth is, no reds, no deaths, no fires, no problem

som nom na...........