Thai Opposition Lawmakers Blame PM Abhisit For CentralWorld Fire

[webfact]

Thai lawmakers blame PM for mall fire

BANGKOK, March 18, 2011 (AFP) - Opposition lawmakers in Thailand have blamed Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva for last year's huge fire at a major Bangkok shopping mall, during a no-confidence debate against his government.

The CentralWorld complex was one of dozens of buildings set ablaze across the capital after an army crackdown on an anti-government rally, which saw a series of fatal street clashes between troops and protesters in April and May.

The government blamed angry militants from the "Red Shirt" protest movement for the arson attack, but opponents say guilt lies with the authorities.

"You're to blame for Bangkok's fire," said Vorawat Auapinyakul, an MP from the opposition Puea Thai party, in a parliamentary debate that went on until 2am local time Friday.

"I'm not saying you burnt it by yourself but you allowed someone, a man dressed like soldier, to burn it," he said, also accusing Abhisit of ordering firefighters not to enter the mall and put out the fire.

Abhisit and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban -- both on the list of ruling coalition ministers named in the motion filed by Puea Thai legislators -- denied the charge.

"I can confirm that the army didn't torch CentralWorld and more than 400 staff members and CentralWorld executives are ready to confirm that," Suthep said.

"The government was not neglectful and we all did what we could to put the fire out."

More than 90 people died in last year's clashes -- Thailand's worst political violence in decades.

The opposition, which also accuses Abhisit of human rights abuses during the crackdown, is seen as having little chance of winning the no-confidence vote expected on Saturday because it lacks a majority in the lower house.

But it is seeking to use the parliamentary tussle to inflict political damage on the administration ahead of elections expected by early July.

Also on Saturday the Reds, who accuse the government of being elitist and undemocratic, are planning the next in a series of large street rallies that have attracted tens of thousands to the capital.

The mainly rural, working class protesters are broadly loyal to fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a military coup in 2006 and lives overseas to avoid a jail sentence for corruption imposed in absentia.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-03-18

[jonclark]

Do they have any evidence other than insisting, shouting, claiming, screaming or lying? Please show the country the evidence !!!

I mean come on - "a man dressed like a solider" they can't even nail down the occupation of the man who they think burnt the place down (replace with solider with policeman, security guard, emergency worker, boy scout, red guard, seh deng)

[animatic]

They really must think everyone else is as stupid as they are.....

[rak sa_ngop]

I remember reading that the reason the fire caused so much damage was that the sprinkler system was not operating. The reason given was that water supplies had been cut-off to 'force' the protesters out of the camp.

So maybe some of the fault for the extensive damage does lie with the government?

[slapout]

About the only things the man has not been accused of 'so far' the drought, cold spell, smog, etc. What he has accomplished according to the those who have/will have wasted 3 days of what could have valuable graft time, would indicate a influence never seen in the history of this country.

[KhunBJ]

Concerning the fire at CentralWorld and other places in the area, then at the time the Government had cut of all water and power for the whole area which eventually would hamper the functioning of the automatic fire extinguishing systems in place, no pumps to keep pressure off water...no fresh supply of water...this would lead to inefficient or non functioning of extinguishing systems and fires could spread easily...so maybe it is in place to blame at least some part of it at the Government ... who made the fire in the first place .. no idea that is for the Police and investigators to find out and prove ..;-)

[jimbeam1]

They really must think everyone else is as stupid as they are.....

The awful truth is, I really believe they do

jb1

[Insight]

Concerning the fire at CentralWorld and other places in the area, then at the time the Government had cut of all water and power for the whole area which eventually would hamper the functioning of the automatic fire extinguishing systems in place, no pumps to keep pressure off water...no fresh supply of water...this would lead to inefficient or non functioning of extinguishing systems and fires could spread easily...so maybe it is in place to blame at least some part of it at the Government ... who made the fire in the first place .. no idea that is for the Police and investigators to find out and prove ..;-)

If I set fire to my house (accidentally or intentionally) and the fire service takes longer than usual to arrive, can I blame "some part of it" at the fire service?

Can I <deleted>.

[TimeBandit2]

It's to bad that in Thailand it is socially acceptable to be a pathetic moron.

This accusation should be ridiculed and derided, laughed at and mocked until this Vorawat's self respect and dignity is squished out of him like a bag of cream cheese under a tank tread.

Please, Vorawat, go do something awful to yourself and save humanity - because with you around, it's pretty hard to believe in the future of species.

Make it painful, debilitating, and have warp your body into a visage that reflects your pathetic, infantile mind. Let it leave you without dignity or hope, a ruined creature.

And then let you be forgotten, purged from memory like a turd blasted out of a space station toilet.

[KhunBJ]

Concerning the fire at CentralWorld and other places in the area, then at the time the Government had cut of all water and power for the whole area which eventually would hamper the functioning of the automatic fire extinguishing systems in place, no pumps to keep pressure off water...no fresh supply of water...this would lead to inefficient or non functioning of extinguishing systems and fires could spread easily...so maybe it is in place to blame at least some part of it at the Government ... who made the fire in the first place .. no idea that is for the Police and investigators to find out and prove ..;-)

If I set fire to my house (accidentally or intentionally) and the fire service takes longer than usual to arrive, can I blame "some part of it" at the fire service?

Can I <deleted>.

Not same thing...at all..;-)

[Insight]

Concerning the fire at CentralWorld and other places in the area, then at the time the Government had cut of all water and power for the whole area which eventually would hamper the functioning of the automatic fire extinguishing systems in place, no pumps to keep pressure off water...no fresh supply of water...this would lead to inefficient or non functioning of extinguishing systems and fires could spread easily...so maybe it is in place to blame at least some part of it at the Government ... who made the fire in the first place .. no idea that is for the Police and investigators to find out and prove ..;-)

If I set fire to my house (accidentally or intentionally) and the fire service takes longer than usual to arrive, can I blame "some part of it" at the fire service?

Can I <deleted>.

Not same thing...at all..;-)

Please kindly elaborate why not.

[roiethome]

Cutting the electricity supply to a correctly installed sprinkler system should have no effect The sprinkler system should have reserve tanks ( not fed directly from the mains supply ) sufficient to keep the system running for at least 30 minutes, and the pump should be diesel powered, not dependent upon mains electricity. Unfortunately, in the LOS too many people cut costs and pay dearly in the long run.

[givenall]

I guess the government should have let the anarchy tocontinue and let the Reds do whatever they wanted regardless of whose freedomthey infringe on. Very Stupide!! I think they acted very late anyways. They shouldhave brought the guns on the second week

[animatic]

It says Thai lawmakers in the title.

What laws have PTP ever actually had a hand in creating or voting in?

I hear of them walking out,

I hear of them attempting censure motions,

but I can think of No LAWS AT ALL that PTP actually had a hand in passing,

let alone creating and brining to the floor.

Anybody have one?

[timekeeper]

its all fruit of the same poisoned tree

if there were no reds illegally and violently protesting it would not have happened

no reds, no deaths, no fires, no problem..............

[timekeeper]

they should get Jeff Savage into give evidence

he semed to know who was going to burn down central world ...........

[Crushdepth]

Its amazing that the opposition would make such a mind-blowingly stupid claim. They don't seem to care about credibility at all.

[ableguy]

They really must think everyone else is as stupid as they are.....

The worst thing is that this brickhead is a member of parliment and will again be running for re election ( Jutaporn ) I guess if you understand Thaksin is his hero then he makes sense.

[animatic]

They really must think everyone else is as stupid as they are.....

The worst thing is that this brickhead is a member of parliment and will again be running for re election ( Jutaporn ) I guess if you understand Thaksin is his hero then he makes sense.

He will be PTP party list, which means he doesn't run on his own merits, but only is high on the list of people because someone appoints him to be there, as with others who get a seat if a certain number of citizens vote PTP.Higher up the chosen ones list more likely to get a seat. If he ran on his own record... well, turds float for a time, but then break apart and return as fertilizer.

Edited March 18, 2011 by animatic

[MunterHunter]

Concerning the fire at CentralWorld and other places in the area, then at the time the Government had cut of all water and power for the whole area which eventually would hamper the functioning of the automatic fire extinguishing systems in place, no pumps to keep pressure off water...no fresh supply of water...this would lead to inefficient or non functioning of extinguishing systems and fires could spread easily...so maybe it is in place to blame at least some part of it at the Government ... who made the fire in the first place .. no idea that is for the Police and investigators to find out and prove ..;-)

I remember reading that the reason the fire caused so much damage was that the sprinkler system was not operating. The reason given was that water supplies had been cut-off to 'force' the protesters out of the camp.

So maybe some of the fault for the extensive damage does lie with the government?

So let me get this right, you think that because the Government cut water/power to the area and the reds decided to set fire to the place, that its the governments fault somehow?

I put to you, that if the reds had not set fire to the place, the lack of water/power would not have been brought into the equation...

Prevention, cure... which is better?

[animatic]

Its amazing that the opposition would make such a mind-blowingly stupid claim. They don't seem to care about credibility at all.

If they only hope to spin it for the true believers to re-energize them is is logical, sort of, and their parliamentary immunity prevents them from being suied for defamation, but yes, it is a mind-blowingly stupid claim to make if you had the slightest need for credibility. That is quite obviously optional in Thai politics way far below who you know and how well you kiss their ass or pay their way.

Edited March 18, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Concerning the fire at CentralWorld and other places in the area, then at the time the Government had cut of all water and power for the whole area which eventually would hamper the functioning of the automatic fire extinguishing systems in place, no pumps to keep pressure off water...no fresh supply of water...this would lead to inefficient or non functioning of extinguishing systems and fires could spread easily...so maybe it is in place to blame at least some part of it at the Government ... who made the fire in the first place .. no idea that is for the Police and investigators to find out and prove ..;-)

I remember reading that the reason the fire caused so much damage was that the sprinkler system was not operating. The reason given was that water supplies had been cut-off to 'force' the protesters out of the camp.

So maybe some of the fault for the extensive damage does lie with the government?

So let me get this right, you think that because the Government cut water/power to the area and the reds decided to set fire to the place, that its the governments fault somehow?

I put to you, that if the reds had not set fire to the place, the lack of water/power would not have been brought into the equation...

Prevention, cure... which is better?

Sprinkler systems are usually fed from a large tank on the roof. So as not to be dependent on water mains and the like in the early stages of a blaze. I wonder which group wanting water badly might have drained the sprinkler tanks???

[jdinasia]

Its amazing that the opposition would make such a mind-blowingly stupid claim. They don't seem to care about credibility at all.

If they only hope to spin it for the true believers to re-energize them is is logical, sort of, and their parliamentary immunity prevents them from being suied for defamation, but yes, it is a mind-blowingly stupid claim to make if you had the slightest need for credibility. That is quite obviously optional in Thai politics way far below who you know and how well you kiss their ass or pay their way.

Absolutely just fertilizer for the mushrooms. Keep them in the dark and feed them crap and hope they grow. On a not so strange side-note, the way to get mushrooms to grow up north is to burn just before the rain.

[whybother]

Sprinkler systems are usually fed from a large tank on the roof. So as not to be dependent on water mains and the like in the early stages of a blaze. I wonder which group wanting water badly might have drained the sprinkler tanks???

If the sprinkler system is fed from a tank on the roof, would that explain why there were supposedly two fires? After the first fire was lit, the sprinklers went off and doused most of the flames, but not all of them. The water ran out, and the remaining flames kicked off the "second" fire.

[jdfmail]

They really must think everyone else is as stupid as they are.....

Unfortunately, many many of the voting public are just that.

[Dap]

About the only things the man has not been accused of 'so far' the drought, cold spell, smog, etc. What he has accomplished according to the those who have/will have wasted 3 days of what could have valuable graft time, would indicate a influence never seen in the history of this country.

... maybe smog

[AZBill]

So one Thai corrupt politician with a big mouth who has only his own self interest at heart blames the PM and we're suppose to listen? Really! Well then it's nice to know finally who I can blame for burning down my favorite Starbucks! Thank goodness that is all solved now! I can sleep again.

[Emptyset]

I remember reading that the reason the fire caused so much damage was that the sprinkler system was not operating. The reason given was that water supplies had been cut-off to 'force' the protesters out of the camp.

So maybe some of the fault for the extensive damage does lie with the government?

Actually one of the videos presented by Puea Thai confirmed that the sprinklers were working:

And this one, which is footage from inside CTW during the 19th:

I hadn't seen these videos before, but they certainly don't give any clues as to who was responsible. Suthep said the first fire, started at 1:40pm (presumably the one that started by the thugs outside CTW in the video we've all probably seen) was put out by CTW staff. Then some other guys attacked, but were chased away by staff. Finally, an armed group entered Central World, and used grenades. The police arrived and lead the staff out. Whilst I think there's no chance of the fire being started by the government, I wonder if the part about the police and attacking staff with grenades is correct? It could be, but in the pictures of Central World on the 19th, we saw staff and protesters/arsonists/looters (take your pick) were shot at by someone, but there's no evidence grenades were used. I can't see any police in the pictures either.

Suthep's chronology fits with what I'd seen before, but no way of knowing whether staff were attacked with grenades or not, although it's quite possible grenades were used as part of the arson attempt itself?

[Emptyset]

This video is one that PT wanted to show but weren't allowed to. The only interesting thing about it that I can see is the fact they weren't allowed to show it:

[rubl]

Actually one of the videos presented by Puea Thai confirmed that the sprinklers were working:

... link to clip removed ...

And this one, which is footage from inside CTW during the 19th:

... link to clip removed ...

I hadn't seen these videos before, but they certainly don't give any clues as to who was responsible. Suthep said the first fire, started at 1:40pm (presumably the one that started by the thugs outside CTW in the video we've all probably seen) was put out by CTW staff. Then some other guys attacked, but were chased away by staff. Finally, an armed group entered Central World, and used grenades. The police arrived and lead the staff out. Whilst I think there's no chance of the fire being started by the government, I wonder if the part about the police and attacking staff with grenades is correct? It could be, but in the pictures of Central World on the 19th, we saw staff and protesters/arsonists/looters (take your pick) were shot at by someone, but there's no evidence grenades were used. I can't see any police in the pictures either.

Suthep's chronology fits with what I'd seen before, but no way of knowing whether staff were attacked with grenades or not, although it's quite possible grenades were used as part of the arson attempt itself?

Bit surprised about the grenades 'in' CWT, don't think I heard that before. Only about the grenade attack which seriously wounded soldiers and Canadian vanderFrift, but that was outside.