Thailand To Proceed With High Speed Rail Project

[webfact]

Thailand to proceed with high speed rail project

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Transport Minister Sophon Zarum on Monday said the Thailand-China Joint Committee on Economic Cooperation has approved a draft Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on the construction of a Bangkok-Nong Khai high speed train route as proposed by his ministry.

The minister said the initial draft was approved by a joint committee chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban. The working committee on the project will initiate talks to conclude the MoU draft between Thailand and China. Talks will also be held at the ministerial level.

Mr Sophon added the completed draft will be proposed to Cabinet and later forwarded for parliamentary approval. He gave assurances that all processes will be done within the tenure of the Abhisit administration.

The 615-kilometre high speed train project will link the Thai capital to Nong Khai, the northeastern province bordering Laos, with an investment of Bt150 billion (US$50 billion).

Initially, the Transport Ministry plans the official signing of the MoU to take place in mid-2011, with construction expected to begin at the end of 2012 and open for serving the public in 2016. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-03-22

[givenall]

Instead of being worried about high speed, let’s worry aboutfixing the traffic for getting some speed in the streets. It seem it gets worseand worse, and the lack of discipline on the road also makes it worse anddangerous

[webfact]

Government Looks to Approve Hi-speed Rail Project Before House Dissolution

The transport minister is aiming to have the 150 billion baht Bangkok-Nongkhai high-speed rail system project approved before the House dissolution and for the bidding process to take place at the end of the year.

Transport Minister Sophon Saram reported that during yesterday's Thai-Chinese Economic Cooperation Committee meeting, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban signed a memorandum of understanding for the construction of the Bangkok-Nongkhai high-speed rail system project proposed by the Transport Ministry.

Sophon pointed out that the project's details will now be negotiated by the Thai-Chinese working committee, in which Thailand is represented by Transport Permanent-Secretary Supoj Saplom.

Sophon is confident that the project will be approved before the House is dissolved and that the bidding process will start some time between the end of this year and early 2012.

The Thai government will negotiate with their Chinese counterparts in working on a framework regarding the high-speed rail technology transfer and fare.

However, it has been proposed that the exact fare prices should not be fixed as they may be too arbitrary for both sides.

In addition, the government will be able to impose direct controls on the fare prices as the system will be operated by a soon-to-be established state enterprise.

The Bangkok-Nongkhai high-speed rail system project will involve the construction of 615 kilometers of rail and has a price tag of 150 billion baht.

The government expects the project to be finalized in mid-2011, and will be followed by a one-year land survey.

According to the plan, construction will begin in 2012 and the system will open for service in 2016.

-- Tan Network 2011-03-22

[jimbeam1]

Instead of being worried about high speed, let’s worry aboutfixing the traffic for getting some speed in the streets. It seem it gets worseand worse, and the lack of discipline on the road also makes it worse anddangerous

I agree with you. As for sure they will spend millions on the planing of this project. Announce the starting and finishing date's then put it on hold. In the mean time, there will have been some nice little earners?

jb1

[transam]

Does this mean a 30 instead of a 20 mph ride.

[Lakegeneve]

Instead of being worried about high speed, let's worry aboutfixing the traffic for getting some speed in the streets. It seem it gets worseand worse, and the lack of discipline on the road also makes it worse anddangerous

I agree with you. As for sure they will spend millions on the planing of this project. Announce the starting and finishing date's then put it on hold. In the mean time, there will have been some nice little earners?

jb1

Sorry but you are both stuck in a last century mentality. The best way to improve traffic flow in a city like Bangkok and a country like Thailand is to provide cost effective, quick mass transit. We can't keep expanding roads forever, esp. as there is no space.

Traffic in BKK would be significantly improved once there is a critical mass of mass transit lines covering the city. Similarly, for highways around the country, once there are high speed rail lines it will take some of the freight and passenger traffic off the roads. The Thai Chamber of Commerce has been crying out for years for improvements to rail (as recently as 2 days ago). The railways have been negelected for decades whilst new roads have been built. Now it is time for rail transport in Thailand to catch up.

And this line will go ahead as the Chinese are funding it and will make sure it is done in 5 years. As with any project in Thailand (or any SE Asian country) - be it schools, highways or an airport - there will unfortuneately be a % of funds corruptly siphoned off for a select few.

However, in relation to driving standards no one will disagree that they are woeful. Which is why you don't want most drivers driving at a higher speed!

The rpoblems are a lack of training & public education, poor driver tests, and a lax rule of law (enforcement). As with many safety and standard issues in this country that requires a greater institutional & cultural challenge.

[grumpyoldman]

Instead of being worried about high speed, let's worry aboutfixing the traffic for getting some speed in the streets. It seem it gets worseand worse, and the lack of discipline on the road also makes it worse anddangerous

I agree with you. As for sure they will spend millions on the planing of this project. Announce the starting and finishing date's then put it on hold. In the mean time, there will have been some nice little earners?

jb1

Sorry but you are both stuck in a last century mentality. The best way to improve traffic flow in a city like Bangkok and a country like Thailand is to provide cost effective, quick mass transit. We can't keep expanding roads forever, esp. as there is no space.

Traffic in BKK would be significantly improved once there is a critical mass of mass transit lines covering the city. Similarly, for highways around the country, once there are high speed rail lines it will take some of the freight and passenger traffic off the roads. The Thai Chamber of Commerce has been crying out for years for improvements to rail (as recently as 2 days ago). The railways have been negelected for decades whilst new roads have been built. Now it is time for rail transport in Thailand to catch up.

And this line will go ahead as the Chinese are funding it and will make sure it is done in 5 years. As with any project in Thailand (or any SE Asian country) - be it schools, highways or an airport - there will unfortuneately be a % of funds corruptly siphoned off for a select few.

However, in relation to driving standards no one will disagree that they are woeful. Which is why you don't want most drivers driving at a higher speed!

The rpoblems are a lack of training & public education, poor driver tests, and a lax rule of law (enforcement). As with many safety and standard issues in this country that requires a greater institutional & cultural challenge.

Here, here, good post !

[nong38]

Instead of being worried about high speed, let's worry aboutfixing the traffic for getting some speed in the streets. It seem it gets worseand worse, and the lack of discipline on the road also makes it worse anddangerous

I agree with you. As for sure they will spend millions on the planing of this project. Announce the starting and finishing date's then put it on hold. In the mean time, there will have been some nice little earners?

jb1

Sorry but you are both stuck in a last century mentality. The best way to improve traffic flow in a city like Bangkok and a country like Thailand is to provide cost effective, quick mass transit. We can't keep expanding roads forever, esp. as there is no space.

Traffic in BKK would be significantly improved once there is a critical mass of mass transit lines covering the city. Similarly, for highways around the country, once there are high speed rail lines it will take some of the freight and passenger traffic off the roads. The Thai Chamber of Commerce has been crying out for years for improvements to rail (as recently as 2 days ago). The railways have been negelected for decades whilst new roads have been built. Now it is time for rail transport in Thailand to catch up.

And this line will go ahead as the Chinese are funding it and will make sure it is done in 5 years. As with any project in Thailand (or any SE Asian country) - be it schools, highways or an airport - there will unfortuneately be a % of funds corruptly siphoned off for a select few.

However, in relation to driving standards no one will disagree that they are woeful. Which is why you don't want most drivers driving at a higher speed!

The rpoblems are a lack of training & public education, poor driver tests, and a lax rule of law (enforcement). As with many safety and standard issues in this country that requires a greater institutional & cultural challenge.

Excellent could not have put it better, hope someone with influence also reads this!

[jayjayjayjay]

It's still gonna be real slow to get to Bangkok. Think how many places it is going to stop in Issan. There are 19 provinces, I would imagine it would have to stop in at least 7-8 of these to make it viable. Can not imagine the dozen or so Laos that jump the border to head to BKK everyday are going to keep a high speed train viable. Why NongKhai to BKK. Why not BKK-Pattaya or BKK-Chiangmai? Strange

[DP25]

It's to Nong Khai so that it can link up with China. China is going to build a high speed rail line in Laos that the Thai line will connect to. Lines to Chiang Mai and Rayong will be built too, but the line to China is first. There will also be a line to the Malay border and eventually you'll be able to go from Singapore to China on high speed rail

[MaiChai]

US$50 billion. Wow that is alot of money. How is it going to be financed? No wonder they are keen to approve this; plenty of money to spread around...

High speed to Laos and then walk over the mountains to China

[whybother]

It's still gonna be real slow to get to Bangkok. Think how many places it is going to stop in Issan. There are 19 provinces, I would imagine it would have to stop in at least 7-8 of these to make it viable. Can not imagine the dozen or so Laos that jump the border to head to BKK everyday are going to keep a high speed train viable. Why NongKhai to BKK. Why not BKK-Pattaya or BKK-Chiangmai? Strange

What DP25 said ... and it won't stop in all provinces, maybe 3 or 4, if that.

[Thai at Heart]

Instead of being worried about high speed, let's worry aboutfixing the traffic for getting some speed in the streets. It seem it gets worseand worse, and the lack of discipline on the road also makes it worse anddangerous

I agree with you. As for sure they will spend millions on the planing of this project. Announce the starting and finishing date's then put it on hold. In the mean time, there will have been some nice little earners?

jb1

Sorry but you are both stuck in a last century mentality. The best way to improve traffic flow in a city like Bangkok and a country like Thailand is to provide cost effective, quick mass transit. We can't keep expanding roads forever, esp. as there is no space.

Traffic in BKK would be significantly improved once there is a critical mass of mass transit lines covering the city. Similarly, for highways around the country, once there are high speed rail lines it will take some of the freight and passenger traffic off the roads. The Thai Chamber of Commerce has been crying out for years for improvements to rail (as recently as 2 days ago). The railways have been negelected for decades whilst new roads have been built. Now it is time for rail transport in Thailand to catch up.

And this line will go ahead as the Chinese are funding it and will make sure it is done in 5 years. As with any project in Thailand (or any SE Asian country) - be it schools, highways or an airport - there will unfortuneately be a % of funds corruptly siphoned off for a select few.

However, in relation to driving standards no one will disagree that they are woeful. Which is why you don't want most drivers driving at a higher speed!

The rpoblems are a lack of training & public education, poor driver tests, and a lax rule of law (enforcement). As with many safety and standard issues in this country that requires a greater institutional & cultural challenge.

Couldn't agree more. Bangkok already has one of the lowest ratios of road space to total land in the city, and they have built roads in the sky already. Where magically would more space come from to put more.

Bring on the trains, if nothing else, it will remove the pressure for quite so many people to want to have to live within 5km of the downtown. What a pleasure it would be to live 100km away, and get into the city in an hour. Or better still, be 400 km away and get there in 3 hours without having to take the plane.

[jimbeam1]

Instead of being worried about high speed, let's worry aboutfixing the traffic for getting some speed in the streets. It seem it gets worseand worse, and the lack of discipline on the road also makes it worse anddangerous

I agree with you. As for sure they will spend millions on the planing of this project. Announce the starting and finishing date's then put it on hold. In the mean time, there will have been some nice little earners?

jb1

Sorry but you are both stuck in a last century mentality. The best way to improve traffic flow in a city like Bangkok and a country like Thailand is to provide cost effective, quick mass transit. We can't keep expanding roads forever, esp. as there is no space.

Traffic in BKK would be significantly improved once there is a critical mass of mass transit lines covering the city. Similarly, for highways around the country, once there are high speed rail lines it will take some of the freight and passenger traffic off the roads. The Thai Chamber of Commerce has been crying out for years for improvements to rail (as recently as 2 days ago). The railways have been negelected for decades whilst new roads have been built. Now it is time for rail transport in Thailand to catch up.

And this line will go ahead as the Chinese are funding it and will make sure it is done in 5 years. As with any project in Thailand (or any SE Asian country) - be it schools, highways or an airport - there will unfortuneately be a % of funds corruptly siphoned off for a select few.

However, in relation to driving standards no one will disagree that they are woeful. Which is why you don't want most drivers driving at a higher speed!

The rpoblems are a lack of training & public education, poor driver tests, and a lax rule of law (enforcement). As with many safety and standard issues in this country that requires a greater institutional & cultural challenge.

Sorry but well and truly in this century thank you. We all know that Thailand does in fact already have mass transport lines covering the city. As far as I can see the high speed rail link is only from Bangkok

to Nong Khai, not taking in the whole of City. So I fail to see how this will help to Improve Bangkok traffic.

Ok the Chinese are funding this project. But we all know that they are going to want their money back. It is only a loan, which is going to cost big time. In the mean time we can all wait and see also what happens to the super sky way?

Just my thoughts.

jb1

[jimbeam1]

It's still gonna be real slow to get to Bangkok. Think how many places it is going to stop in Issan. There are 19 provinces, I would imagine it would have to stop in at least 7-8 of these to make it viable. Can not imagine the dozen or so Laos that jump the border to head to BKK everyday are going to keep a high speed train viable. Why NongKhai to BKK. Why not BKK-Pattaya or BKK-Chiangmai? Strange

Again it's watch this space. Thailand already has a rail link spanning halfway across the Friendship bridge, waiting for Laos to complete their side of the deal and meet in the middle. It can then be continued through to China.

Excuse me, or not for being a sceptic. But where do most of Bangkok's elite originally come from.

jb1

[ginjag]

It's still gonna be real slow to get to Bangkok. Think how many places it is going to stop in Issan. There are 19 provinces, I would imagine it would have to stop in at least 7-8 of these to make it viable. Can not imagine the dozen or so Laos that jump the border to head to BKK everyday are going to keep a high speed train viable. Why NongKhai to BKK. Why not BKK-Pattaya or BKK-Chiangmai? Strange

What DP25 said ... and it won't stop in all provinces, maybe 3 or 4, if that.

The other 3 biggest cities in Thailand, from Nong Khai, and then stops at Udon Thani, Khon Khen, Nakorn Ratchasima, but doubt any other.

[ginjag]

It's still gonna be real slow to get to Bangkok. Think how many places it is going to stop in Issan. There are 19 provinces, I would imagine it would have to stop in at least 7-8 of these to make it viable. Can not imagine the dozen or so Laos that jump the border to head to BKK everyday are going to keep a high speed train viable. Why NongKhai to BKK. Why not BKK-Pattaya or BKK-Chiangmai? Strange

Again it's watch this space. Thailand already has a rail link spanning halfway across the Friendship bridge, waiting for Laos to complete their side of the deal and meet in the middle. It can then be continued through to China.

Excuse me, or not for being a sceptic. But where do most of Bangkok's elite originally come from.

jb1

It's complete, it goes to Vientiene, sometimes traffic has to wait crossing the bridge, when the train is due.

The elite'' are they from Mongolia, cause I know of a famous man who has the looks of a Mongolian :lol:

Edited March 22, 2011 by ginjag

[asiawatcher]

Instead of being worried about high speed, let's worry aboutfixing the traffic for getting some speed in the streets. It seem it gets worseand worse, and the lack of discipline on the road also makes it worse anddangerous

Yep let's try and find ways to bring more people into Thailand/Bangkok so we can increase the congestion ... and USD50Bn - that ridiculous!

[petermwolk]

I hope that the long term plan would include a Bangkok to Chiang Mai path. Given that Chiang Mai is a top tourist location for Thailand - #2 best place to visit in the world - it would seem to be short-sighted to not consider it in any long term planning.

Had a friend from The Netherlands visiting in Bangkok. She wanted to come up but didn't want to fly - and wasn't up to a train trip given the time involved. A great high-speed train would be a great tourist draw. (Especially if cheaper than air-fare.)

But I'm a realist: doubt if Burma would help fund that line.

[Pacificperson]

Think of it as one leg of a Shanghai to Singapore line.

[Tanaka]

It's still gonna be real slow to get to Bangkok. Think how many places it is going to stop in Issan. There are 19 provinces, I would imagine it would have to stop in at least 7-8 of these to make it viable. Can not imagine the dozen or so Laos that jump the border to head to BKK everyday are going to keep a high speed train viable. Why NongKhai to BKK. Why not BKK-Pattaya or BKK-Chiangmai? Strange

Again it's watch this space. Thailand already has a rail link spanning halfway across the Friendship bridge, waiting for Laos to complete their side of the deal and meet in the middle. It can then be continued through to China.

Excuse me, or not for being a sceptic. But where do most of Bangkok's elite originally come from.

jb1

It's complete, it goes to Vientiene, sometimes traffic has to wait crossing the bridge, when the train is due.

The elite'' are they from Mongolia, cause I know of a famous man who has the looks of a Mongolian :lol:

Do you mean an infamous man? Furthermore, if the estimated cost is 50 Billion USD, it will be 1.500 Billion Bath, not 150. Just a detail. I also wonder how much the actual cost will be when it is finished. A high speed railway will require a maintenance level that is somewhat different to what is given to Thailand's present railways. I'd not like to be near or inside a highspeed train when it derails.

[zthyadat]

Instead of being worried about high speed, let's worry aboutfixing the traffic for getting some speed in the streets. It seem it gets worseand worse, and the lack of discipline on the road also makes it worse anddangerous

Yeah, public transit is stupid - let's worry about how best to accommodate private cars!!

[SteveH]

Shame, I was hoping Rayong was going to get the first high speed link, would make the wife's Bangkok shopping trips less tiring

[ginjag]

Think of it as one leg of a Shanghai to Singapore line.

Just a thought, are they still going to use the narrow gauge track and build another the same along side ?? 2WAY--or a european wide gauge double track. still keeping the existing track for inter town service. Finishing then with 3 lines ???

If it is wide gauge, then the Friendship bridge line will have to be dug up

Edited March 22, 2011 by ginjag

[Pacificperson]

Think of it as one leg of a Shanghai to Singapore line.

Just a thought, are they still going to use the narrow gauge track and build another the same along side ?? 2WAY--or a european wide gauge double track. still keeping the existing track for inter town service. having then 3 lines ???

I doubt that they will worry about the old stuff. Furthermore, I would bet that the whole route is done in 10 years or less, if the Chinese have their way.

[whybother]

I doubt that they will worry about the old stuff. Furthermore, I would bet that the whole route is done in 10 years or less, if the Chinese have their way.

It's supposed to be done in 5 years.

[Humphrey Bear]

50 billion dollars for around 650km of line, three or four stations, rolling stock.

Dual track line at a million a kilometre is 1.25 billion (approx)

Four stations at 20 million each (generous)

Eight trains (maximum) at 800 million each (Siemens prices)

Less than eight billion.

Who gets the rest?

Loan will be paid back by the fare structure, I assume. Over (say) 25 years.

Eight to ten journeys each way, each day, with 300 pax average.

5-6,000 pax per day (if they're lucky)

25 x 365 x 5,000 = 45,625,000 pax trips (one-way)

To pay back 50 billion (no interest calculated) each pax must pay more than US $ 1,000 per one-way journey.

And do you think that every day for the next 25 years more than 5,000 people will want to make that journey? Every day?

Typical Thailand - nobody has checked the figures. All pie-in-the-sky idiot thinking.

[Crossy]

If it's 'real' high speed rail (250-350 kph) it will be based on the Chinese CRH system which is standard gauge 1,435 mm (4 ft 8 ¹⁄₂ in).

At these speeds it is essential that nothing obstructs the track so much of the route will have to be elevated, imagine hitting a chang at 350kph!

The cost of HSR in the West is between 30 and 60 million USD per km, so the estimated cost of 50 billion USD (about 77 million a km) is a bit loaded but not far from the truth taking account of inflation.

[jimbeam1]

If it's 'real' high speed rail (250-350 kph) it will be based on the Chinese CRH system which is standard gauge 1,435 mm (4 ft 8 ¹⁄₂ in).

At these speeds it is essential that nothing obstructs the track so much of the route will have to be elevated or in tunnel, imagine hitting a chang at 350kph!

I heard they were using "HornbyOO"

jb1

[koratvinnie]

It certainly won't stop in "most" Isaan provinces as one poster suggested because most Isaan provinces still don't have ANY rail service, and it's been over 100 years since the first tracks were laid in Thailand. Of the 19 Isaan provinces (20 if you count Bueng Kan) only eight have rail service: Korat, Khon Kaen, Udon, Nong Khai, Buriram, Surin, Sisaket and Ubon. Personally I'd rather see 'snail rail' introduced to every Isaan province than this high-speed link for a few. It's always struck me how the cheapest form of public transport isn't available to millions of the poorest Thais.

Edited March 22, 2011 by koratvinnie