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Thailand Rejects Foreign Election Monitors


webfact

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Farangs relax,

This is called a political gaffe :)

I am sure that he regrets his words.

He may have realized a moment later what he had sad but it was too late for excuse because he would have lost his face.

Loosing face in Thailand :ph34r: I am sure everyone knows about that :jap:

Yeah? So where's the apology? I think he meant it and it doesn't hurt him and his party, it helps them.

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"I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them," he said, using the Thai word for "Westerners".

A gentleman and a diplomat. Excuse me while I vomit.

In the US, this guy would have been run out of office on a rail by the end of the business day.

a foreigner arriving in the U.S. is since years treated like sh*t and asked questions such as "who are you, why are you and what are you and what is the purpose of your visit?" nowadays silly questions have to be answered before the foreigner can book a flight. when i arrive in Thailand i'm not asked anything but quite often i heard "welcome to Thailand'.

Yeap, I've received similar treatment upon entry to the US. I'm a British white male. Once out of the airport, I was fine.

This still doesn't negate what a high-profile politician said. Airports and immigration officials are a law unto themselves. (Anywhere in the world)

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"I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them," he said, using the Thai word for "Westerners".

A gentleman and a diplomat. Excuse me while I vomit.

In the US, this guy would have been run out of office on a rail by the end of the business day.

a foreigner arriving in the U.S. is since years treated like sh*t and asked questions such as "who are you, why are you and what are you and what is the purpose of your visit?" nowadays silly questions have to be answered before the foreigner can book a flight. when i arrive in Thailand i'm not asked anything but quite often i heard "welcome to Thailand'.

Many American Citizens are asked the same questions and every now and then a "welcome to America" comes out of someone who is having a good day. Not much different the world over.

Most diplomats have enough sense to hire a speech writer and use a prompter when making public utterances. We can at least feel good in our position (farang) of trusting/respecting Thai's as there are so few, compared to the farang that this local yokel must be exposed to in his position.

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"I don't respect 'farangs'. We

do not have to surrender to them"

the Great Suthet speaks! Abisit would be so much better off without this loose canon ball - what a diplomat! maybe a candidate for the UN Chair?

PS he forget's his boss is an British Passport Holder and his education was in the place 'he doesn't respect'

I believe He would Fit Right in with the Rest of the "Elite" in the UN, Including Our Ex NZ PM Helen Clarke!!! Or Possibly He was only referring to UN and NGO Personal when He made the Statement as that Would also fit with most everyone Else's Opinion of them!!!

Exactly Ian Bungy . Now take our Oz foreign minister Kevin Dudd....PLEASE

I don't respect 'farangs'. We

do not have to surrender to them

It should come as no surprise really for those FARANGs who have been here a while.

The upper class, the esablishment, the military, the police, the immigration, they dont like white people, and believe me FARANG means white man.

So if these ultra right freaks get back in power better start to pack your bags, I have and well out of it now.

Edited by pipchatel
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Guys just a thought but: His use of words maybe a bit harsh but if he had said “I don’t respect foreign politicians and associate groups such as UN etc”, perhaps we would have all agreed. I certainly would.

I am from the UK but quite frankly am disgusted by the way the UK behaves around the world. It is arrogant, self interested and short sighted. This is a country (UK) that spent billions on unnecessary wars while its banks used the people’s money to get rich. Then when it went bankrupt asked the very people who it had abused to bail them out. Which the government did using not their money but our money. Then they allowed those banks to make record bonus payouts with not their money but our money. Then if not to spit on us more, the governments who are supposed to be in power to take care of its citizens who put it in power, then made cuts to hurt the people even more. No one bails my parents out or gives them a helping hand. Or any of the other millions of suffering people due to this complete fiasco. So are these people to be respected ?

Now they are messing round in Libya. How clever when the government is bankrupt. Yes the UK government has no money. Fact. The same could be said of the USA too. Libya, a country that has low unemployment and is reasonably successful with lots of oil ! Yes we all know the guy is not a good guy but Tony Blair was hugging the muppet only a few years ago. I woke up a long time ago that politicians on the whole are self interested, hypocritical and rather disgusting human beings. Certainly not interested in us or our well being. So are they to be respected ?

The manipulation of the media currently, is the same rubbish we saw during the BBC and CNN campaigns during Thailand protest which we all complained about as being false, biased and untrue. So you believe the very same media now ? Are these people to be respected ?

How can you respect such stupidity? I respect people who deserve respect. Who show the very basis of being a decent human being. I do not see it in foreign politics. I am not saying here is any better at all. But it is not my country so I take the stance it is not my place to rubbish it or get involved.

Other than to say…..This Thai politician has a point.

I don’t respect foreign powers either and for all the right reasons. Reasons that are so obvious they are staring us all in the face. So someone said what I think. I respect the people of the countries but not the powers in charge. In fact I choose to ignore them most of the time and treat them with the same thought as I do a silent fart ….Wish he had worded it better that is all J

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Suthep is right, they don't really need foreigners, they could do everything themselves.

I mean really, does Thailand really need, computers, cars, phones, engines, bridges, internet, dams, etc.

Both parties should call it quites, he can go back to sitting on the floor and eating som tom, and farangs should go somewhere else for their prositutes.

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I also agree. There is no reason to apologise for the rudeness and arrogance of Thai men or their corruption. Us hated farangs spend a lot of money in this country. The Thais like our money but not us. We have a right to speak up and though we are 'guests" we pay plenty - check the cost of a Retirment Visa - to stay here. To a Thai a promise is something they already did. Thai policies are racist, nationalist, and xenophobic. How can any sane person deny that. I live here permanently & I will not be driven out.

i couldn't care less what Thai policies are as long as the beauty-<deleted>-ful policy exists that i don't pay income or capital gains tax on my foreign income.

:lol:

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GOOD to see a thai with a set af balls..

The majority of westeners who visit have no respect for the thais or themselves.

The western way is pthetic, coming from the uk im ashamed of my country and the way

we and our allies rape, pillage and bribe poorer countries to get their oil,minerals,gems and gold..

About time someone stuck their finger up at us...

RESPECT to him...

I personally haven't raped, pillaged or stolen from anyone. I abide by the laws here, and I support a Thai family. Do I still deserve the finger? You obviously have very low self-esteem if you feel you do. Maybe you did something wrong.

I believe that's what we call 'generalising'

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Here is a pretty accurate translation of the context of Suthep's remarks from the newspaper Thai Daily News http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/1583

Regarding whetherthe Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) leaders wanting to inviteinternational organizations to observe the elections in Thailand, would behelpful in investigating have otherbenefits, Mr Suthep said, "The (redshirt) leaders have strange (ideas). They don't respect the sovereignty of their own (country). There are many Thai organizations. (Thai) media (representatives), universityprofessors or students or whatever. Whyshould anyone esteem westerners to thatextent? I don't like this sort ofthing. The (red shirts) like to getoutsiders involved in our internal affairs. I don't think they should. Itisn't appropriate.

When asked if theoversight of Thai elections was of a sufficiently high standard to ensure thateverything was done in a fair manner, Mr. Suthep said, "I don't esteemwesterners as being better than Thai people. Don't bring westerners here to control Thai people. I think our (own) Election Commission issufficient to the task. If you want tosupplement the oversight of the Election Commission or examine the ElectionCommission itself, then make use of the views of Thai people. The media, the academic sector, the privatesector, the business sector, and students (all) can contribute. (We should) do away with the notion that one ought to run and submit (oneself) to westerners for (the solution to all one's problems). [end translation]

I think it's pretty clear that he was trying to say that he didn't want outside interference and that Thailand was perfectly capable of solving its own political problems. Imagine what American politicians might say at the prospect of giving an international body oversight of American elections! The quote that "I don't respect farangs." is not reflective of the complete quote and does not convey his meaning well.

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Imagine if a Western politician said he didn't respect a race of people and referred to them with an often derogatory and demeaning racial epithet.

It would be quite rightly be deemed unacceptable and the politician would have to explain and be held responsible for his comments.

Not so here, where Thai people in positions of power know that they are exempt from responsibility for their actions and actively encourage bigotry, racism and nationalism to further their own agendas.

I disagree in your comparison. It is not uncommon for Minority politicians in the west (at least in the US) to make comments that attack those with more power than them as well as accusing them of bad intentions against their people. In other words it is much more okay to slam other groups, societies or people that are stronger when it is done by those with less power.

As for Farang being a derogatory term, it is not. Although it generally used to describe white westerners it also can simply mean foreigners. Thailand is a different culture and they have no issue with calling a race or group what they are. Asian is by no means a derogatory term but it would be considered derogatory in the West for a waiter to tell the busboy to get those Asians a drink. In Thailand this it is perfectly acceptable.

While I have no doubt he made a mistake in the words he chose (if translated properly) I am very confident his words were not meant to be racist in any way shape or form. But bottom line is this is not the West and it is their country run on the way they choose good or bad and it is not our place to tell them how to do things or that they should obey political correctness that may exist in the west and we should be offended when they don't adhere to our views. They may fail but it will be their failure and they certainly have the right to pick and choose how they will use the west to further their goals. The bottom line we are guests in THEIR country and WE need to adapt to them ... not the other way around.

Oh, lord!

I made a point in a previous post that we need to respect their culture and way of life. I still stand by that 100%. But I also said that racism is 100% wrong - regardless of culture. Are you seriously telling me now that we need to adapt to a racist mentality?

Yes of course we should assimilate with the thais and accept that they are superior or go home.

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If ever people needed a case to prove to the apologists that the word "farang" is derogatory then this is it. He could have used "westerners" to identify non Asians or simply "foreigners" to indicate non Thais but he went full on with the jingoism of "farangs".

What he really wants is corruption and no pesky (and honest) westerners interfering.

it comes to my mind that "honest" westerners might have lost each and every respect because it seems to be their favourite pastime to bomb and invade sovereign countries and interfering in internal politics.

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All elections are bought here. It is the greatest unspoken joke in Thailand. Always funny to me to see all the bar girls head back to Isan to get their 500 baht for voting. It appears to me that the red shirts, with Takki funding them, would have the best chance of winning. However since both sides are buying votes...

...we are looking at true democracy.

:lol:

I live up North and in my wife family there are doctors and one professor and many nurses and teacher some with masters degree they are ALL RED

and none of them are holding their hands out and they been waiting for an election for a long time. In this forum there is lots of assumption from people living in Bangkok

sorry to tell you there are 5 times more people living outside of Bangkok and the masses live in the country.For me was always a mystery why not call an election earlier and

all of this bloodshed maybe could have been avoided.To me it does not make any difference there be alway be Farang prices and we will be always be discriminated against

no matter who wins or looses.

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"I don't respect 'farangs'. We

do not have to surrender to them"

the Great Suthet speaks! Abisit would be so much better off without this loose canon ball - what a diplomat! maybe a candidate for the UN Chair?

PS he forget's his boss is an British Passport Holder and his education was in the place 'he doesn't respect'

who is a British passport holder? I do believe that you just made that up. Certainly he was born in UK of Thai parents, and was indeed well educated in the UK, but "British passport holder"/ just not true.

I don't know for sure if he does or not, but the word from my Thai colleagues is that he (Abisit) does indeed hold 2 passports, one of them being British. It's also a source of near embarassment for Thai politics and not something they openly admit, but people do know about it. I repeat however, this is information from my Thai colleagues, I can't say for certain it's true...

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forum rules:

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

:ph34r:

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You see this Thailand's great sadness (and weakness) they just are so arrogant. They firmly believe they do it 'best' and don't need assistance - and, of course, are frightened what a truly free and fair election - monitored - would reveal. If there is nothing to hide - what's the problem?

Precisely.

An emerging nation works in exactly the same way as an idiot. Both are aware they they exist. Both think they are smart. But an idiot, by definition is just too stupid to realise that he's not smart. Likewise this insular and plutocratic country proudly regards itself as the Einstein of the known universe.

Which is saying very little as compared to their known universe - Laos, Myanmar, Kampuchea, then the Thai nation is assuredly superior - in the same way that grade 4 schoolchildren are superior to kids in grade 3.

Thailand is a nation of children who are approaching the end of their elementary ('primary' in the UK) schooling. They are top dogs, cock of the walk, the big boys and smarter, bigger and untouchable on their own playground and with legions of smaller kids looking up to them. But can you remember what it was like when you went up to high school? To go from being the total bees knees to being the smallest and most stupid frog in the pond? Being laughed at or totally ignored? Feeling panicked, inadequate, lost and stupid out in the gigantic and scary playground with thousands of others and with you being little and lost, bottom of the pile?

Three hundred years ago Siam segregated the foreigners for very different reasons: they'd never seen any before and were suspicious. Today they alienate foreigners and pretend that farangs are unimportant and disposable because of Thailand's fear of them. In the last few decades the Thai nation has become the oldest kids on it's own elementary playground - the arrogant and cocky big boys - and that's just how they like it. They've now seen over the fence into the gigantic playground where the rest of the world has its high school and it scares the sh*t out of them. They don't want to change. Their nationalistic lips are trembling with panicky tears at the thought of being forced to leave Grade School and go off to a place where they are half the size of everyone else, physically, emotionally and intellectually and technologically.

And so they strut and flap from the security of their little school playground trying to shoo away the curious big boys on the other side of the fence, brave enough where they stand to shout insults and desperate enough to cling for their life to the playground fence, in the sheer dread that it might be collapsing.

The divide will collapse; it has to. Eventually. And the sad thing is that when it eventually does then those who are stupid, too stupid to realise how stupid they actually are, and thoughtlessly, instinctively, believe they are smart, will find an even bigger gap to bridge and with even bigger and smarter boys with far scarier toys than there used to be.

Which is why Thailand clings for grim death to what it has and knows, often appearing ridiculous to the rest of the world - and bleats about the sanctity of 'culture' and how precious it is. They are floundering on the edge of the modern world (which is oozing in torrents into their culture) but they are scared stiff to embrace it.

R

Edited by robsamui
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Here is a pretty accurate translation of the context of Suthep's remarks from the newspaper Thai Daily News http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/1583

Regarding whetherthe Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) leaders wanting to inviteinternational organizations to observe the elections in Thailand, would behelpful in investigating have otherbenefits, Mr Suthep said, "The (redshirt) leaders have strange (ideas). They don't respect the sovereignty of their own (country). There are many Thai organizations. (Thai) media (representatives), universityprofessors or students or whatever. Whyshould anyone esteem westerners to thatextent? I don't like this sort ofthing. The (red shirts) like to getoutsiders involved in our internal affairs. I don't think they should. Itisn't appropriate.

When asked if theoversight of Thai elections was of a sufficiently high standard to ensure thateverything was done in a fair manner, Mr. Suthep said, "I don't esteemwesterners as being better than Thai people. Don't bring westerners here to control Thai people. I think our (own) Election Commission issufficient to the task. If you want tosupplement the oversight of the Election Commission or examine the ElectionCommission itself, then make use of the views of Thai people. The media, the academic sector, the privatesector, the business sector, and students (all) can contribute. (We should) do away with the notion that one ought to run and submit (oneself) to westerners for (the solution to all one's problems). [end translation]

I think it's pretty clear that he was trying to say that he didn't want outside interference and that Thailand was perfectly capable of solving its own political problems. Imagine what American politicians might say at the prospect of giving an international body oversight of American elections! The quote that "I don't respect farangs." is not reflective of the complete quote and does not convey his meaning well.

Thank you for that.

Problem is, now there are 200 posts or so that all need to rewritten or just plain retracted... :D:lol:

.

Edited by Buchholz
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I read some of the comments here (the intelligent ones) and they got me thinking. Let's say this fellow was misquoted or made an honest mistake. it happens. We all make them.

Yet, not one word from the fellow clarifying his position. Not one word from PM Abhisit distancing himself.

Therein, lies a truth some people may not want to accept. If none of these responsible parties wishes to set the record straight, then they really mean it, and that should send shivers down the backs of foreign investors in addition to expats. Not all Thais share Suthep's opinion, but those Thais are not in power and they are not closely tied to the military as is Suthep.

That's one heavy duty statement and it is a warning.

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For starters in my opinion it is irrelevant what he meant or what he did not mean.

What is relevant is the words he used.

Farang is a slang and rather a word used by less educated or intelligent people. While it is accepted it is neither polite nor correct.

The actual meaning of the word is European not a Westerner.

Thai's call Australians farang, where in fact Australians are neither European or Westerners, Australians are Asia Pacific- anyhow,

This are the words of a nation leader for which in my opinion he should be sacked-full stop. It is equivalent to American President saying-"i do not trust the Asian Chings"

The sad part is that he(suthep) does not even realize that it is the "farangs" who built and develop his country and keep it going.

Manufacturing-Foreign company's even toyota is not THAI

Exports-Foreigners buying the products

and the list goes on.

It is a scary thought the the leader would say what he did, using the words that he did. if thats the thinking at the top, everyone else below simply follows.

I have a feeling if this statement was to make public to international community, he personally and current government may get a nice slap from the international community and not only on the wrist and i would not be surprised if some multi-national company's re-considered it's plans.

if anything, REDS now have ammunition to use against the current government and evidence to lodge complains with International bodies.

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As I wrote so often: The Thaoi;s only and only TOLERASTE 0 = somethiong different as accept) us farangs for ONE and ONRE reason only: we brin gh moeny in.

The most they would like we simply transfer it, and even stay away.

For the rest: they spit on us, farangs.

That;s why I switched nearly all my business already away to Sri Lanka, Vietnam and Southern China. Happy I got rid of my condo.

Just wait, till Burma is accepted again as tourist destination, and.. Thailand’s economy will fall down till Laos level.

I will not drop a tear, as the Thais did it all themselves by selling their votes for a little money so these elected crooks have their own made law on their side to robb off the poor Thqaia even more.

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Here is a pretty accurate translation of the context of Suthep's remarks from the newspaper Thai Daily News http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/1583

Regarding whetherthe Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) leaders wanting to inviteinternational organizations to observe the elections in Thailand, would behelpful in investigating have otherbenefits, Mr Suthep said, "The (redshirt) leaders have strange (ideas). They don't respect the sovereignty of their own (country). There are many Thai organizations. (Thai) media (representatives), universityprofessors or students or whatever. Whyshould anyone esteem westerners to thatextent? I don't like this sort ofthing. The (red shirts) like to getoutsiders involved in our internal affairs. I don't think they should. Itisn't appropriate.

When asked if theoversight of Thai elections was of a sufficiently high standard to ensure thateverything was done in a fair manner, Mr. Suthep said, "I don't esteemwesterners as being better than Thai people. Don't bring westerners here to control Thai people. I think our (own) Election Commission issufficient to the task. If you want tosupplement the oversight of the Election Commission or examine the ElectionCommission itself, then make use of the views of Thai people. The media, the academic sector, the privatesector, the business sector, and students (all) can contribute. (We should) do away with the notion that one ought to run and submit (oneself) to westerners for (the solution to all one's problems). [end translation]

I think it's pretty clear that he was trying to say that he didn't want outside interference and that Thailand was perfectly capable of solving its own political problems. Imagine what American politicians might say at the prospect of giving an international body oversight of American elections! The quote that "I don't respect farangs." is not reflective of the complete quote and does not convey his meaning well.

Thank you for that.

Problem is, now there are 200 posts or so that all need to rewritten or just plain retracted... :D:lol:

and still posts keeping coming... :lol:

It's too bad the above wasn't the OP. I would have enjoyed reading the likely total of 3 replies to it.

But then, there wouldn't have been a mass emailing with its subsequent 14,000 views and 230 posts.

.

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Here is a pretty accurate translation of the context of Suthep's remarks from the newspaper Thai Daily News http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/1583

Regarding whetherthe Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) leaders wanting to inviteinternational organizations to observe the elections in Thailand, would behelpful in investigating have otherbenefits, Mr Suthep said, "The (redshirt) leaders have strange (ideas). They don't respect the sovereignty of their own (country). There are many Thai organizations. (Thai) media (representatives), universityprofessors or students or whatever. Whyshould anyone esteem westerners to thatextent? I don't like this sort ofthing. The (red shirts) like to getoutsiders involved in our internal affairs. I don't think they should. Itisn't appropriate.

When asked if theoversight of Thai elections was of a sufficiently high standard to ensure thateverything was done in a fair manner, Mr. Suthep said, "I don't esteemwesterners as being better than Thai people. Don't bring westerners here to control Thai people. I think our (own) Election Commission issufficient to the task. If you want tosupplement the oversight of the Election Commission or examine the ElectionCommission itself, then make use of the views of Thai people. The media, the academic sector, the privatesector, the business sector, and students (all) can contribute. (We should) do away with the notion that one ought to run and submit (oneself) to westerners for (the solution to all one's problems). [end translation]

I think it's pretty clear that he was trying to say that he didn't want outside interference and that Thailand was perfectly capable of solving its own political problems. Imagine what American politicians might say at the prospect of giving an international body oversight of American elections! The quote that "I don't respect farangs." is not reflective of the complete quote and does not convey his meaning well.

:lol: Not surprising

To me it looks like he says 'I don't venerate/worship farang, I don't think that farang are better than Thai people'

Not the meaning in the OP, it's not some angry outburst "RAAAAWWWW I don't respect foreigners!1!1!"

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This is certainly, if nothing else, a diverse forum! The immediately preceding post is so replete with inaccuracies and unfounded prejudice that it boggles the mind! Just to choose one at random: "The sad part is that he(suthep) does not even realize that it is the "farangs" who built and develop(ed) (sic) his country and k(ept)(sic) it going." or maybe "who build and develop his country and keep it going". Agreement of tense among verbs in this sentence would be helpful in understanding what the author is trying to say. Either way, whether he means the past or the present, the statement is grossly inaccurate. While it is true that foreigners of all kinds have contributed to the development of Thailand, it is absurd to suggest that westerners were or are the primary force in the development of the country. If any group of foreigners were to have a claim to make in this regard it would be the Chinese, not (we) Farangs!

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Esteem is definitely a nicer way of translating it.

ให้เกียรติ

[to] respect ; esteem ; regard

Is ให้เกียรติ actually what he said? :S

I can find ยกย่อง in the newspaper but my reading is terrible.

edit: turns out it's นับถือ (nub tue). So much power in the hands of the translators.

Edited by OxfordWill
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Suthep's comments might seem a bit harsh and inappropriate (they are!), but if you ask any Thai - who isn't an ardent red shirt - how they feel about foreign election monitors, you'll probably get a similar response!

Yes and he hates all people that are not yellow shirts or elite. He has never been any good except at killing inocent people. and poor people.

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Suthep's comments might seem a bit harsh and inappropriate (they are!), but if you ask any Thai - who isn't an ardent red shirt - how they feel about foreign election monitors, you'll probably get a similar response!

Very stupid and unprofessional for such a senior government official to voice his lack of respect, actually hate, for farangs. Those of us who have lived in Thailand for awhile permanently learn that the vast majority of Thai men not only do not respect us, but hate all farangs. They see us as someone they can lie to and rip off. Thai men do not want us in this country. The Immigration laws get tougher every year trying to throw us out. Those farangs who believe more than 10% of Thai men do not hate them, open your eyes and ears. We are the enemy.

it is true that Thais are vastly arrogant actually - and hate just about anyone who is not one of 'them' and they think they are better at everything - but if you view them as 12 year olds (for the majority) then you can live here quite well

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Suthep's comments might seem a bit harsh and inappropriate (they are!), but if you ask any Thai - who isn't an ardent red shirt - how they feel about foreign election monitors, you'll probably get a similar response!

I read it as, he said that he didn't respect westerners. Period. Suppose it could be the interpretation?

jb1

Could be quoted out of context, but given this is Suthep speaking - could well be!

No it is not out of context. He just hates everyone who is not a yellow shirt or the elite. He is a biggit from the word go.

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Esteem is definitely a nicer way of translating it.

ให้เกียรติ

[to] respect ; esteem ; regard

Is ให้เกียรติ actually what he said? :S

I can find ยกย่อง in the newspaper but my reading is terrible.

He uses นับถือ

[v.] (naptheū) EN: worship ; believe in ; adore

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