Thai Navy Defends Plan To Buy Used Subs

[Buchholz]

I'm presuming the Oberon could go faster than the 12 knots reported on the link?

The only info that i can disclose is public knowledge

Congratulations. You passed your security test.

[phiphidon]

They don't need the flaming subs, all this sub info about types -etc, always we get the internet details of this that and the other, no one asked posters to decide what types to buy or which is best. Thailand cannot afford old or new, and submarines are the last thing they need, we may as well buy APOLLO

As long as certain posters can keep the discussion about types/capabilities etc running it distracts from the real point of discussion as you have so rightly pointed out - Does the Royal Thai Navy need submarines? Does the resident government need the Armed Forces support, Yes. Disregarding the fact that the Armed Forces should support whatever version of government is in power without question in a true democracy, this being the LOS, where coups are taken as a given and likely consequence if the Armed Forces do not agree with the government formed by the wishes of the Thai people, the Armed Forces have to be kept sweet. This may well account for the 10 year plan signed off for approx 500 Billion Baht of expenditure on the Armed Forces. Then again it may just be to replace ageing equipment as we're told. Quite where the requirement for 6 old submarines comes into that replacement argument, I'm not sure.

[Payboy]

As long as certain posters can keep the discussion about types/capabilities etc running it distracts from the real point of discussion as you have so rightly pointed out - Does the Royal Thai Navy need submarines?

That's just a manifestation of the strange desire to prove who's better at google search.

[ginjag]

As long as certain posters can keep the discussion about types/capabilities etc running it distracts from the real point of discussion as you have so rightly pointed out - Does the Royal Thai Navy need submarines?

That's just a manifestation of the strange desire to prove who's better at google search.

Let's start another thread EH!!...on all types of subs---how fast--how silent--university challenge?? debates about do we need yes, not trying to get upmanship browny points, about kelly's armhole.

[Payboy]

As long as certain posters can keep the discussion about types/capabilities etc running it distracts from the real point of discussion as you have so rightly pointed out - Does the Royal Thai Navy need submarines?

That's just a manifestation of the strange desire to prove who's better at google search.

Let's start another thread EH!!...on all types of subs---how fast--how silent--university challenge?? debates about do we need yes, not trying to get upmanship browny points, about kelly's armhole.

Okay, but only if you allow results from Yahoo search as well. Google sometimes just doesn't cut it.

[ginjag]

As long as certain posters can keep the discussion about types/capabilities etc running it distracts from the real point of discussion as you have so rightly pointed out - Does the Royal Thai Navy need submarines?

That's just a manifestation of the strange desire to prove who's better at google search.

Let's start another thread EH!!...on all types of subs---how fast--how silent--university challenge?? debates about do we need yes, not trying to get upmanship browny points, about kelly's armhole.

Okay, but only if you allow results from Yahoo search as well. Google sometimes just doesn't cut it.

Good stuff, brill minds think alike.... :cheesy:

[jayboy]

As long as certain posters can keep the discussion about types/capabilities etc running it distracts from the real point of discussion as you have so rightly pointed out - Does the Royal Thai Navy need submarines? Does the resident government need the Armed Forces support, Yes. Disregarding the fact that the Armed Forces should support whatever version of government is in power without question in a true democracy, this being the LOS, where coups are taken as a given and likely consequence if the Armed Forces do not agree with the government formed by the wishes of the Thai people, the Armed Forces have to be kept sweet. This may well account for the 10 year plan signed off for approx 500 Billion Baht of expenditure on the Armed Forces. Then again it may just be to replace ageing equipment as we're told. Quite where the requirement for 6 old submarines comes into that replacement argument, I'm not sure.

Exactly.These old subs are clearly useless junk which are also very expensive (even for the Germans)to maintain.

No, this is all about the Democrats buying armed forces support.Nothing more and certainly not for the country's benefit - just the usual matrix of the Thai armed forces stupidity, incompetence and greed.

[Buchholz]

Editorial, Naew Na Newspaper

March 30, 2011

Translated and Rewritten by Kongkrai Maksrivorawan

Royal Thai Navy Needs Submarine Fleet

The Royal Thai Navy is considered to be one of Asia's best naval forces. It was founded in 1900, during the reign of King Rama V. Currently the navy has a fleet of battleships to operate in open waters, aircraft and a carrier to provide air support. Still missing is the ability to operate underwater. The Thai navy submarine program could be dated back to 1910. In 1938, Thailand received and commissioned four small submarines built by Mitsubishi Company in the city of Kobe, Japan. These submarines were later decommissioned in 1951.

For the past three decades, the navy has been trying to procure a new fleet of submarines. It is possible that in 2012, the Thai government will finally approve the purchase of six secondhand submarines from the German Navy in a government-to-government deal worth 7.5 billion baht.

The six submarines are Type 206A. Each of them has the displacement of between 400 to 500 tons, test-depth of 400 fathoms, the main armament of eight 533 mm torpedo tubes; 16 torpedoes can be carried on board at a time and operated by a crew of not exceeding 33. The submarines have a speed of 20 knots (surface) and 12 knots (submerged).

The fleet has been in service with the German Navy since 1973 and has a 35 year lifespan with an additional 15 years if upgraded. The reason why the Thai navy wants a submarine fleet is to maintain the balance of military power in the region.

Today, the Republic of Singapore’s Navy has six new Swedish-built submarines in service. Meanwhile, the Malaysian Navy has recently commissioned two new Scorpène class submarines built by France and Spain. Both of them are armed with Exocet anti-ship missiles. At the same time, the Indonesian Navy's arsenal consists of two Kilo class submarines built by Russia 1981.

The Vietnam People's Navy has recently ordered six refurbished Kilo class submarines from Russia. It has also been reported that the Myanmar Navy is receiving three secondhand submarines from China.

As the countries around Thailand already have or about to have their own submarine fleets, the Thailand military force is currently at a great strategic disadvantage. For the given reason, Thailand needs to procure its own fleet of submarines.

Please note that the views expressed in our "Analysis" segment are translated from local newspaper articles and do not reflect the views of the Thai-ASEAN News Network.

-- Tan Network 2011-03-30

[jayboy]

As the countries around Thailand already have or about to have their own submarine fleets, the Thailand military force is currently at a great strategic disadvantage. For the given reason, Thailand needs to procure its own fleet of submarines.

It is at this puerile level of argument that the Thai armed forces try to justify the purchase of these ancient decrepit U-boats.What does strategic disadvantage even mean in this context?

There is no possible justification other than the political bribe I referred to earlier.What a bunch of morons.

[Bagwan]

TAN has outdone itself with the rubbish entered above. I doubt that many Staff Colleges in the developed nations would agree with the main thrust of the argument but the article is a cornucopia for those who want to nitpick.

[Buchholz]

Editorial, Naew Na Newspaper

Royal Thai Navy Needs Submarine Fleet

Please note that the views expressed in our "Analysis" segment are translated from local newspaper articles and do not reflect the views of the Thai-ASEAN News Network.

TAN has outdone itself with the rubbish entered above

above repeated for clarity

.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Buchholz

[saintofsilence]

These submarines are subject to a lot of stress and pressure when they are being worked hard the Thai government probably don't have accurate figures on how much work they have done or how much stress that they have been put through no one will really know until the Thais start putting them to the test or what mechanical problems will arise but they will be high maintenance.

The navy will only get another 10 to 15 years out of them and they will be 45 to 50 years old when decomissioned.

The initial outlay plus maintenance and refits would surely be better spending on newer technology.

Of course they will do the job as peace time submarines and for training personal but In combat conditions they will be up against it.

Edited March 30, 2011 by saintofsilence

[philw]

As long as certain posters can keep the discussion about types/capabilities etc running it distracts from the real point of discussion as you have so rightly pointed out - Does the Royal Thai Navy need submarines? Does the resident government need the Armed Forces support, Yes. Disregarding the fact that the Armed Forces should support whatever version of government is in power without question in a true democracy, this being the LOS, where coups are taken as a given and likely consequence if the Armed Forces do not agree with the government formed by the wishes of the Thai people, the Armed Forces have to be kept sweet. This may well account for the 10 year plan signed off for approx 500 Billion Baht of expenditure on the Armed Forces. Then again it may just be to replace ageing equipment as we're told. Quite where the requirement for 6 old submarines comes into that replacement argument, I'm not sure.

Exactly.These old subs are clearly useless junk which are also very expensive (even for the Germans)to maintain.

No, this is all about the Democrats buying armed forces support.Nothing more and certainly not for the country's benefit - just the usual matrix of the Thai armed forces stupidity, incompetence and greed.

Perfectly true and I wonder how long before the ordinary Thai people realise they are being raped.

7 Billion for obsolete gear ??

Appalling and disgusting

[OzMick]

Look on the bright side - more likely sooner than later Thailand will have 5 new dive sites and another tourist attraction tied up alongside the carrier.

A mental picture comes of a Thai CO trying to look up 27 letter words in a German-Thai dictionary as he searches the manual for help.

[bazmlb]

Look on the bright side - more likely sooner than later Thailand will have 5 new dive sites.

Thats just what I was thinking (hoping)

[Buchholz]

Maybe they want them to be a museum the same as the aircraft carrier they have in Sattahip with kids climbing all over it. What a waste of money that was.

some of those rescued might disagree...

March 31 – Thailand’s sole aircraft carrier HTMS Chakri Naruebet carrying 753 tourists, including 551 foreign visitors, from Tao Island in Surat Thani province to safety docked at the Sattahip naval base in the eastern province of Chonburi Thursday as Thailand's flood crisis took its toll on the southern provinces leaving at least 20 people dead.

[jayboy]

Maybe they want them to be a museum the same as the aircraft carrier they have in Sattahip with kids climbing all over it. What a waste of money that was.

some of those rescued might disagree...

March 31 – Thailand’s sole aircraft carrier HTMS Chakri Naruebet carrying 753 tourists, including 551 foreign visitors, from Tao Island in Surat Thani province to safety docked at the Sattahip naval base in the eastern province of Chonburi Thursday as Thailand's flood crisis took its toll on the southern provinces leaving at least 20 people dead.

Sorry that won't work as a justification for that insane purchase.There are many more cost effective ways of rescuing those at peril on the sea.The aircraft carrier was symptomatic of the corrupt, greedy, incompetent armed forces procurement and this pathetic attempt to justify it is just the usual drivel from the usual suspects.

[Buchholz]

Maybe they want them to be a museum the same as the aircraft carrier they have in Sattahip with kids climbing all over it. What a waste of money that was.

some of those rescued might disagree...

March 31 – Thailand’s sole aircraft carrier HTMS Chakri Naruebet carrying 753 tourists, including 551 foreign visitors, from Tao Island in Surat Thani province to safety docked at the Sattahip naval base in the eastern province of Chonburi Thursday as Thailand's flood crisis took its toll on the southern provinces leaving at least 20 people dead.

Sorry that won't work as a justification for that insane purchase.There are many more cost effective ways of rescuing those at peril on the sea.The aircraft carrier was symptomatic of the corrupt, greedy, incompetent armed forces procurement and this pathetic attempt to justify it is just the usual drivel from the usual suspects.

As well as the usual ranting by the usual suspects decrying any part of the military... until they're needed. It's an age-old position.

And while it certainly wasn't offered as a justification for obtaining the ship as it clearly isn't the primary function of the carrier, it was extremely beneficial to 750 needy people in this situation to have the carrier's availability.

Still, for amusement, let's hear jayboy's naval contingency plans on how to rescue 750 people.

[jayboy]

As well as the usual ranting by the usual suspects decrying any part of the military... until they're needed. It's an age-old position.

And while it certainly wasn't offered as a justification for obtaining the ship as it clearly isn't the primary function of the carrier, it was extremely beneficial to 750 needy people in this situation to have the carrier's availability.

Still, for amusement, let's hear jayboy's naval contingency plans on how to rescue 750 people.

No , once again you fail to make the case.There was no justification at all for the purchase of the expensive antiquated Spanish carrier with no strategic purpose.It was an exercise in vain gloriousness and the maintenance costs have been catastrophic thereafter.Comically it has never been used with aircraft.

I'm not against the Thai military at all.I know some remarkable young officers who are a credit to the country.I am in favour of civilian supervision and control.I am in favour of resources being applied to genuine threats to Thailand.I am not in favour of the army being involved in politics.I am not in favour of the absurdly inflated numbers of senior officers.I am not in favour of the greed and corruption involved in procurement.I am not in favour of the armed forces massive business interests including media.

Most responsible and educated Thais accept this.What is surprising is to find foreigners devoid of critical facilities when it comes to the Thai military.

[thaihome]

...antiquated Spanish carrier ...

The ship was ordered in 1992, launched in 1996, and commissioned into the RTN in 1997. Hopefully that makes it younger then you, but based on some of your posts, I'm not sure about that.

Th

[ginjag]

Maybe they want them to be a museum the same as the aircraft carrier they have in Sattahip with kids climbing all over it. What a waste of money that was.

some of those rescued might disagree...

March 31 – Thailand's sole aircraft carrier HTMS Chakri Naruebet carrying 753 tourists, including 551 foreign visitors, from Tao Island in Surat Thani province to safety docked at the Sattahip naval base in the eastern province of Chonburi Thursday as Thailand's flood crisis took its toll on the southern provinces leaving at least 20 people dead.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4325274

Sorry that won't work as a justification for that insane purchase.There are many more cost effective ways of rescuing those at peril on the sea.The aircraft carrier was symptomatic of the corrupt, greedy, incompetent armed forces procurement and this pathetic attempt to justify it is just the usual drivel from the usual suspects.

As well as the usual ranting by the usual suspects decrying any part of the military... until they're needed. It's an age-old position.

And while it certainly wasn't offered as a justification for obtaining the ship as it clearly isn't the primary function of the carrier, it was extremely beneficial to 750 needy people in this situation to have the carrier's availability.

Still, for amusement, let's hear jayboy's naval contingency plans on how to rescue 750 people.

3 aircraft ??????