Buying Land With Shared Driveway Access

[haveaniceday]

We have been looking at a block of land, the people selling have sold a long skinny strip that fronts onto the road, and kept a driveway to their home and many Rai behind that.

They are not the brightest tool's in the shed, as they now admit, they didn't think about access for the other land they had for sale. After explaining to them, we can't buy land without access to drive a car to it, that took a week to sink in, we are not accepting their 'promise' of we can share their drive way.

We are thinking, they declare a drive way for joint access, and this is not owned by anyone, is this possible in Thailand to be done in the lands office?

Thankyou

[craigt3365]

You have a problem for sure. Let's move this over to the real estate forum and see what the experts over they have to say. OK?

[keestha]

Old thread related to this topic might be of some help.

[chiangmaibruce]

Don't think it's feasible for the land not to "be owned by anyone" .. who would be responsible for maintaining it, who would take action if someone squatted on it, etc. Your best course of action (and the normal approach) would be to include that land in the parcel you are buying. The alternative might be to have them donate the land to the amphur as public roadway, but then the Council could screw you later too.

[simon43]

To whom did they sell the long skinny strip that fronts the road? Sounds like the buyer is very well aware that they can hold the other land owners to 'ransom' for access to their land, and that's maybe why they bought it.

Simon

[JurgenG]

A land with no access is worth nothing.

Now you have two solution. Either you buy the piece of land that gives you access to the main road or you ask the owner to give it away to the village, to make it a public road. Make sure the paperwork is done, and done properly.

But if you can't secure an access to a public road, just walk away.

[haveaniceday]

We will probably buy land to make a road way and be responsible for it for the 50m section to our potential land, but, the only road access to many Rai that they want to carve up and sell is what is currently their drive way to their house which is about 30m down it.

The closest to the road we could buy is some 15m down this one drive way putting a 50m driveway 90 degrees off it that we would insist to buy and own. They are reluctant to sell it, (the 50x3m). I ask why? It is useless to them as we need it for access, could only be a burden to them to maintain it. I think when push comes to shove they will sell it.

Back to the initial 15m x 3m from the road that everyone needs, as it's now the only road access.

They say it would be on the Chanote of both the properties that this is a shared drive way and both have access with it even though they own it (The first 15m). Anyone know if this will stand up if they just say one day, nope, "No more come on our land, to get your your land"

I mean, I don't understand what they are thinking, selling land with no access and being difficult about it? Why they sold all the road frontage to one person and not leave any for access for the land behind is not logical, but TIT.

Edited March 30, 2011 by haveaniceday

[haveaniceday]

Chiangmai Bruce : Thanks for your thoughts, anyone on how the local Gov office can screw us?

Simon : the people selling are really dopey, I think someone made them a offer, they took it, they had no idea of what their land was worth, someone cleaned up for sure who got a great deal.

JurgenG : said "But if you can't secure an access to a public road, just walk away." Thats how I feel. They need to make about the first 15m x 3m of their driveway public road.

& Keestha, thx for the link.

[haveaniceday]

A quote on TV off the thread mentioned above in post #3 from Keestha,

"If there were a written contract between the two parties that made provision for a right of way and hours of access for which a fee were paid for a set duration - then you might have some security in gaining access to parcel B (In this case the Island of land). There is a reason that land with direct road access and services is valued more highly than an island of land with no access".

I feel the advice here of, "If you can't secure an access to a public road, just walk away." is the best to avoid future issues, and I can see some very cheap land that is in demand slipping away from our fingers, but better safe than sorry.

Looking at that other thread, it appears that if the seller who has to change their Chanote anyway when they sell off some Rai's, (It's all one one Chanote at the moment), that any stipulation on both Chanotes of having land on it that is for joint access means nothing in Thailand anyway. (Even if on the Title of my wifes land and the other).

I would have thought that if Right of access was on the sellers land for that 15m X 3m then it's a no issue, but appears no. Can anyone confirm that if it was on both Chanotes it still means nothing in the big picture of the owner was to go down the extortion path or block it?

So in this case one would need a contract like above in blue, but we all know contracts in Thailand mean nothing, good for making paper planes or drawing cartoons.

[chiangmaibruce]

Chiangmai Bruce : Thanks for your thoughts, <snip> how the local Gov office can screw us?

Various ways including: not maintaining the road, renting out or selling all or part of the 'road' at a later date, not taking action to move someone who encroaches on the 'road' at a later date, etc ... all of which may affect your ongoing ability to use the road for access

[gregb]

I thought there was a statute in Thai law that in the event any piece of land does not have access to a road, that the owner(s) of any land between that piece of land and the closest road (not necessarily the most desirable, but the closest) are required to grant you access through their property. There is also another statute that says if a road is already existing for a period of time, and it is the only access way to a piece of land, that the owner is prohibited from closing or otherwise blocking access to that road.

I really think you need to study the land law before you start worrying about this. I may be thinking of the rules in Cambodia, but I'm pretty sure this is in the Thai laws. I think you'll find you are already covered.

[InterestedObserver]

I thought there was a statute in Thai law that in the event any piece of land does not have access to a road, that the owner(s) of any land between that piece of land and the closest road (not necessarily the most desirable, but the closest) are required to grant you access through their property

Access can be a motorcycle path!

[tomhuayyai]

Now you have two solution. Either you buy the piece of land that gives you access to the main road or you ask the owner to give it away to the village, to make it a public road. Make sure the paperwork is done, and done properly.

But if you can't secure an access to a public road, just walk away.

I beleive there is a third option.

I am going through the same situation at the moment. Sort of.

A right of access can be given over a drive or parcel of land, but it has to be enshrined in the chinod AND it has to state for a 4 wheel vehicle. Not sure if its just your chinod or theirs as well. Suspect it could only be done when the original chinod was sub divided. Get reputable legal advice.

And maybe renegotiate the deal to cater for the hassle factor.

It would be a mistake to pay tea money to get either chinod's 'altered' to show everything has always been ok and think that the problem has gone away. Someone could easily come along in the future and say this was done 'incorrectly' and 'remedy' the chinods leaving you without access. In my situation the access is over land that is not on a chinod but a Nor Sor Sam and the only solution is for the local government to legally adopt the access land. Timescale - at least 4 months.

[tomhuayyai]

I thought there was a statute in Thai law that in the event any piece of land does not have access to a road, that the owner(s) of any land between that piece of land and the closest road (not necessarily the most desirable, but the closest) are required to grant you access through their property

Access can be a motorcycle path!

or pedestrian

[Khun Jean]

In my understanding a chanot can not be givin for a piece of land without access. Therefore if it is a chanot there is a guarantee you have access.

However TIT.

Can not find it in writing at the moment but what gregb posted is how the law is.

It can be a struggle to get it done and in agreement with all parties involved, but it is law and the owner of the blocking piece of land is out of luck trying to hold people ransom. As they will be your neighbor it is important that it is done on good terms, meaning some money has to exchange hands.

Good land is in abundance, especially if it is not roadfront, beachfront or inside a city. Lesson i learned is not to fall in love with a piece of realestate. Because when that happens chances are that after you buy it there is a better deal availabe. Did not believe it the first few times it happened to me, now i know. Be patient, sometimes a good property finds you.

[quiksilva]

Get a servitude registered on the Chanode of the skinny parcel fronting the main road at the land department, both parties will have to agree to this but its a relatively simple, cheap and permanent solution.