Coming to Thailand

[PattayaParent]

Not correct, PP. It all depends on where the first to die is domiciled.

In summary:

First to die UK domiciled, spouse UK domiciled: full spousal exemption (no Inheritance Tax)

First to die UK domiciled, spouse non-UK domiciled: personal allowance + limited spousal exemption (£325,000 + £55,000 = £380,000)

First to die non-UK domiciled, spouse UK or non-UK domiciled: full spousal exemption (no Inheritance Tax)

If your wife is non-UK domiciled her estate outside the UK is not liable for Inheritance tax on her death; if she becomes UK domiciled, however, then her estate world-wide is liable for UK Inheritance Tax. Not necessarily a good move.

I'm currently in your second case and am considering the benefits of moving to your first case. [note, if the estate is worth more than the full exemption (650k?) then you pay IHT on the balance but I know what you were trying to say]

Your fourth case is the same as as the first case, we would both be UK domiciled and the full spousal exemption would apply but as she's worth more than me then yes you're right it's not necessarily a good move. But I'm expecting to be the first one to go.

[Chivas]

What happens if you openly live in Thailand and are on a frozen pension, and then decide say to come back to the UK say aged 70-do you start receiving annual increases on the level it was previously frozen at ?? Or have you previously made you bed now lie in it

Edited April 7, 2011 by Chivas

[chiang mai]

What happens if you openly live in Thailand and are on a frozen pension, and then decide say to come back to the UK say aged 70-do you start receiving annual increases on the level it was previously frozen at ?? Or have you previously made you bed now lie in it

You start to receive the increases, in fact you can receive them for the brief periods that you are there on holiday but it will revert to the lower level when you return to Thailand.

[PattayaParent]

What happens if you openly live in Thailand and are on a frozen pension, and then decide say to come back to the UK say aged 70-do you start receiving annual increases on the level it was previously frozen at ?? Or have you previously made you bed now lie in it

You start to receive the increases, in fact you can receive them for the brief periods that you are there on holiday but it will revert to the lower level when you return to Thailand.

But will your pension will be bumped up to the current level after which you get yearly increases? i.e. you won't start to receive increases only on the previous frozen level?

[Daveroc]

While not quite on the topic of the current thread, be aware that a number of holidays will take place in the UK over the next 3 weeks. If you are reliant on particular transfer dates there could be delays.

Holiday dates are

Friday, 22 April 2011: Easter holiday

- Monday, 25 April 2011: Easter holiday

- Friday, 29 April 2011: Royal Wedding

- Monday, 2 May 2011: May bank holiday

- Monday, 30 May 2011: Spring bank holiday

[chiang mai]

What happens if you openly live in Thailand and are on a frozen pension, and then decide say to come back to the UK say aged 70-do you start receiving annual increases on the level it was previously frozen at ?? Or have you previously made you bed now lie in it

You start to receive the increases, in fact you can receive them for the brief periods that you are there on holiday but it will revert to the lower level when you return to Thailand.

But will your pension will be bumped up to the current level after which you get yearly increases? i.e. you won't start to receive increases only on the previous frozen level?

Say for example your pension had been frozen at 50 Pounds per week for the past ten years and then you decide to visit the UK for four weeks at a time when the current pension rate is 97 Pounds per week. If you notify the pension service of your intended stay you will be eligible to receive your pension at the rate of 97 Pounds per week, until such time as you return to Thailand when your payments will revert to the previously frozen rate of 50 Pounds per week.

[PattayaParent]

What happens if you openly live in Thailand and are on a frozen pension, and then decide say to come back to the UK say aged 70-do you start receiving annual increases on the level it was previously frozen at ?? Or have you previously made you bed now lie in it

You start to receive the increases, in fact you can receive them for the brief periods that you are there on holiday but it will revert to the lower level when you return to Thailand.

But will your pension will be bumped up to the current level after which you get yearly increases? i.e. you won't start to receive increases only on the previous frozen level?

Say for example your pension had been frozen at 50 Pounds per week for the past ten years and then you decide to visit the UK for four weeks at a time when the current pension rate is 97 Pounds per week. If you notify the pension service of your intended stay you will be eligible to receive your pension at the rate of 97 Pounds per week, until such time as you return to Thailand when your payments will revert to the previously frozen rate of 50 Pounds per week.

But what Chivas is asking is what happens if you go back permanently?

I would assume that if they will give you the current rate when you're on holiday they'll automatically bump you up to that if you stay permanently.

[chiang mai]

That's correct.

[MAJIC]

But what Chivas is asking is what happens if you go back permanently?

I would assume that if they will give you the current rate when you're on holiday they'll automatically bump you up to that if you stay permanently.

Its not quite that simple,who said they will give you the current rate while on a holiday to the UK?

If you have been out of the Country for a number of years,you may very well have to take a HRT (Habitual Residents Test) which would not happen on a flying visit,and then flit back to Thailand.

After a Ten Year Absence,you still have the Right of Abode in the UK,but not Access to Public F

unds,until you have shown/proven,by your actions, that you are back to stay,permanently,hence the HRT Test!

Look it up.at www.dwp.gov.uk

And then do a Google on the HRT "Habitual Resident Test."UK

Edited April 16, 2011 by MAJIC

[theoldgit]

I visited an old friend of mine in Canada some years ago, he was receiving a State Pension of 2/6 per week, what's that, about 6 Baht?

[theoldgit]

Its not quite that simple,who said they will give you the current rate while on a holiday to the UK?

If you have been out of the Country for a number of years,you may very well have to take a HRT (Habitual Residents Test) which would not happen on a flying visit,and then flit back to Thailand.

Some years ago I was involved in an operation to receive a number of British Subjects and Nationals into the UK who were fleeing the Mugabe regime in Zimbabwe, some had retired after working in the Rhodesian Railways others had lost their farms and the like. These poor souls would have had to take the Habitual Residents Test despite the fact they were the proud owners of British passports.

In the end they didn't return, they moved to other parts of the African Sub-Continent, don't think they could face months in refugee camps in their mother country.

Another part of my work was dealing with foreign nationals, be they over-stayers, illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, I wont spoil your day by saying exactly how much these people were entitled to.

[chiang mai]

[/b]

Its not quite that simple,who said they will give you the current rate while on a holiday to the UK?

If you have been out of the Country for a number of years,you may very well have to take a HRT (Habitual Residents Test) which would not happen on a flying visit,and then flit back to Thailand.

After a Ten Year Absence,you still have the Right of Abode in the UK,but not Access to Public F

unds,until you have shown/proven,by your actions, that you are back to stay,permanently,hence the HRT Test!

Look it up.at www.dwp.gov.uk

And then do a Google on the HRT "Habitual Resident Test."UK

I've only just spotted this reply, apologies for my lateness.

Firstly, HRT is not applied to State Pension:

Only the following benefits are affected:

Both the right to reside and the habitual residence test:

* pension credit

* income support

* income-based jobseeker's allowance

* housing benefit

* council tax benefit

A more complete explanation of the HBT is found here - http://www.multikulti.org.uk/en/immigration/habitual-residence-test-and-right-to-reside/index.html. The following section is of particular interest also:

"If claims for benefits fail on the grounds that the claimants have not satisfied the HRT test, the tribunals and national courts will consider the claims based on the particular circumstances of each case. That is, based on the facts of each case, and, how those facts relate to the 4 key factors outlined above.

As the result a body of case law (courts decisions) has been created. And, depending on the particular facts of each case, the decisions establish at what stage a claimant can be deemed to have satisfied the test.

For example, one of the key factors is the appreciable period of time. This is the actual period of time that a claimant has spent in UK. A Social Security Commissioner has stated that this could a period between 1 to 3 months of residence in UK.

However, this is not conclusive. It appears that all the 4 key factors have an inter-relationship with each other and it is the overall picture that will determine the outcome.

Therefore, one can state that whether or not someone is habitually resident in United Kingdom is a question of fact. The facts of an individual case, assessed in relation to the 4 key factors.

The HRT has been reasonably effective at preventing people coming to the UK for short periods and claiming benefit.

However the HRT was not effective at stopping those who become habitually resident from claiming benefit on a long term basis throughout their time in the UK. Thus, the British government introduced the Right to Reside in May 2004".

[Gambles]

Not correct, PP. It all depends on where the first to die is domiciled.

In summary:

First to die UK domiciled, spouse UK domiciled: full spousal exemption (no Inheritance Tax)

First to die UK domiciled, spouse non-UK domiciled: personal allowance + limited spousal exemption (£325,000 + £55,000 = £380,000)

First to die non-UK domiciled, spouse UK or non-UK domiciled: full spousal exemption (no Inheritance Tax)

If your wife is non-UK domiciled her estate outside the UK is not liable for Inheritance tax on her death; if she becomes UK domiciled, however, then her estate world-wide is liable for UK Inheritance Tax. Not necessarily a good move.

I'm currently in your second case and am considering the benefits of moving to your first case. [note, if the estate is worth more than the full exemption (650k?) then you pay IHT on the balance but I know what you were trying to say]

Your fourth case is the same as as the first case, we would both be UK domiciled and the full spousal exemption would apply but as she's worth more than me then yes you're right it's not necessarily a good move. But I'm expecting to be the first one to go.

In all these cases using a simple excluded property trust (EPT) makes sense

- for the non-dom spouse, she loses nothing but the assets remain outside the dom's estate if she dies first

for the possibly dom who thinks he's non-dom now, then if this is the best situation that the potentially dom will have, then they too can exclude assets from estate in case their non-dom claims weaken in future

EPTs are very easy to set up and tend to be relatively unintrusive although every situation is different and professional advice should be obtained.

Cheers,

Paul

Edited May 2, 2011 by Gambles