Two Swedes Electrocuted In Krabi

[surayu]

Does anybody know if wearing rubber gloves and/or rubber sandals while taking a shower lessens the risk?

No, as the water is an electric conductor, but you should be ok untill you stay dry

[howzat]

If the water heater is installed away and outside the shower cabinet like under the sink is that safer

[catlover]

Make sure a proper electrician install your unit. (Yes, that is harder arranging than one would think.)

"proper electrician"(so called) - when I had asked him -" why you did not make ground?" - answered:it will work without ground

[BuckarooBanzai]

I am just jumping in because a real warning is in order. If it has already been stated my apologies.

DO NOT USE METAL SHEATHED SHOWER HOSES CONNECTED TO YOUR SPRAYER!!!!

Water is not the culprit unless it was pumped from the sea. Fresh water is non conductive and well water with minerals is just a bit but not enough to worry about. But the hose with a metal sheath is a killer!

Only use rubber/plastic with no chrome/metal component!

Edit:- To the best of my knowledge a separate ground wire should not be required as the safety circuit detects the amperage in vs. the amperage out which only requires two wires. If this was not the case most people with hot showers in Thailand would have met their maker.

[richard_smith237]

Make sure a proper electrician install your unit. (Yes, that is harder arranging than one would think.)

"proper electrician"(so called) - when I had asked him -" why you did not make ground?" - answered:it will work without ground

And where to find a 'proper electrician' - When building a house I'd be happy to employ a certified and switched on electrician (sorry for the pun).

For my condo I insisted on a Stand Alone system (i.e. one under the sinks). I refused to have a wall shower unit for this very reason. This involved re-plumbing both bathrooms and the kitchen, I'm sure the laborers carrying out this re-plumbing thought I was wasting my money - After all, a wall unit does the same job right ?

A month later I begin to smell an electrical burning at the water heater. I took photo's of the installation and sent it to Stiebel Eltron. Their immediate response was to send their own electrician to my apartment who instantly recognised the poor installation of my condo electrician (if I should even call him that).

It turned out that the original cable (440v mains I think - but I could be wrong) for the water heaters was not quite long enough so was extended very poorly with inadequate cables, too thin to handle the current and hence the burn out.

It's a shame, no standards and no quality control mean we have to triple check everything ourselves. But I'm no electrician, architect, civil engineer or mechanic - I will always miss something and can only endeavor to rely on internet research, common sense and a whole lot of time which I don't always have to triple check things here.

It's a different story in a hotel though where there should be legal implications for appliances falling below certain safety standards - I try and choose hotels without these wall heaters but thats not always possible.

Very Sad - RIP to the Swedish victims.

[bristolgeoff]

they were not to know about this problem.they must be some kind of comeback for the families now.sad story RIP

[WarpSpeed]

A swimmer in sea water can be electrocuted by a little as 8 volts head to toe.

Doubt that very much.

Voltage does not kill.

Nope.... Amperage does..

[WarpSpeed]

It turned out that the original cable (440v mains I think - but I could be wrong)

Don't know of any 440v residential systems only 220v here..

Yeah if showers are a problem here then you'll understand why I never swim in the pools either, I've seen the problems first hand and if only you knew? After the tsunami in Phuket you should have seen the electric work being done there, scary doesn't begin to tell the whole story..

[Misterwhisper]

When I moved into my new (rented) house, I tried to load the washing machine for the first time and immediately got an electric shock, realizing that it wasn't grounded. Have since made sure to have all electrical appliances properly grounded - even if it seemed that they already were. Not taking any chances. Even the electrician I called (a Thai, by the way) shook his head in disbelief and said he's surprised nobody has ever been electrocuted.

I once even saw a grounding cable fixed to a gas pipe running outside a house! Honestly!

[siamiam]

It is true that salt water is of lower resistance than fresh water. However, fresh water, though considered a high resistance liquid, is still a better conductor of electricity than air, (in most cases). When mixed with soap, shampoo, floor cleaner residue, etc., the fresh water found in bathrooms can facilitate you becoming part of a 'path to ground', i.e., to a metal floor drain and pipe. All other things being equal, it is more dangerous to stand barefoot on a wet floor than on a dry floor.

[ginjag]

Does anybody know if wearing rubber gloves and/or rubber sandals while taking a shower lessens the risk?

I disconnected shower electricity supply a long time ago. for some reason I was not happy and comfortable, I enjoy the cool shower, I feel better for it and pleased I did what my instincts told me to do. This news confirms it. If your not sure -don't trust.

[siamiam]

If the water heater is installed away and outside the shower cabinet like under the sink is that safer

Possibly, but not necessarily. It is not the water heater itself, but the electricity present that is the danger. Any source of electricity can be a potential danger. A normal electrical outlet that one would plug an electric shaver into, could be a danger. Any source of electricity is a possible danger, when it is combined with a situation in where a person becomes a potential ‘path to ground’ for that electricity. If the water heater is installed in such a way that the electricity that powers it can Never find a path to ground through the human using the heater, then it is safe. This could entail properly grounding the heater, ensuring that the heater is equipped with a properly functioning ‘trip’ that will open in the advent of a potentially lethal amperage surge, installing the heater so that there is no chance that the electricity that powers it can find a path to ground through the body of a human. These are things that are difficult to see to in a hotel room as you are traveling, but should be seen to in a personal residence.

[Nisa]

Putting anything electric in a shower is asking for trouble but it is just the way things are done in developing countries.

A dozen or more US soldiers were killed in Iraq due to this same problem with electric water heaters in the shower not being grounded properly. And these were all showers installed on bases.

[MaiChai]

It's true that it's not easy to find a good electrician or plumber here... Every time I tried someone new, there was always something wrong, got bored quickly.

I personally do these things by myself now, easy to make it better and faster.

Totally agree. I mean what is a qualified electrician in Thai terms? As far as I can see, no one is qualified. Asked them the difference between live and neutral, what is ground? This so typifies everything wrong with Thailand: its not that the level of education is low, its that no one wants to become educated. Boys drop out of school at an early age because its not 'cool' to go to school; no one is interested in doing engineering or technology well.

I know I am clever, but the Thais get fed up with me being clever. I even had to diagnose my girlfriends illness last night and choose the correct drugs; now I am no doctor, but your average Thai medicine shop cannot be relied on to give the rights drugs, and can you trust your average Thai doctor, without going to a hospital where you know you will be seen by a 'real' doctor (which also means it gets much more expensive). Girlfriend is now much better; had to go to several Thai drug stores before I could get the correct medication. Its not safe to self medicate, but can you trust your average Thai drug store/doctors more?

[Nisa]

Look out for this type of installation

I trust my guy and he says you cannot get any safer than this ... look for the liberal use of electric tape to know the job was done properly.

[TAWP]

Make sure a proper electrician install your unit. (Yes, that is harder arranging than one would think.)

"proper electrician"(so called) - when I had asked him -" why you did not make ground?" - answered:it will work without ground

And where to find a 'proper electrician' - When building a house I'd be happy to employ a certified and switched on electrician (sorry for the pun).

There are a few foreigners on this board. Some years back we had a Thai electrician finally solve the issues of us getting zapped by the computers etc but grounding all our outlets...and later install the water-heater.

But yes, many ones are lazy/cheap/not so educated...so just shop around.

[TheFishman1]

So I am coming to Thailand end of this month,are most bathrooms have just these electric units?Seems like I'll be taking cold shower.So if I'm in aplace I should look for the rest thing and press it?

[siamiam]

It is true that salt water is of lower resistance than fresh water. However, fresh water, though considered a high resistance liquid, is still a better conductor of electricity than air, (in most cases). When mixed with soap, shampoo, floor cleaner residue, etc., the fresh water found in bathrooms can facilitate you becoming part of a 'path to ground', i.e., to a metal floor drain and pipe. All other things being equal, it is more dangerous to stand barefoot on a wet floor than on a dry floor.

I also wanted to clarify this statement: It depends on what you mean when you say 'fresh water'. When I used the term in the quote above, I am meaning water other than salt water found in the ocean, i.e. tap water, water found in streams, rivers, and lakes. It is true that pure water will not conduct electricity, e.g. distilled water is a poor conductor of electricity.

I believe that anywhere in the world, 'tap' water coming from a bathroom shower, should be considered as having a facilitating property in possible electrocution.

There are quite a few websites on the subject. You may find some who state that the conductivity of fresh water is not sufficient to facilitate electrocution at household voltages, (don't trust your life to these kinds of statements). However, the number of electrocution deaths where 'fresh water' has been considered a contributing factor, seems to say otherwise.

Here are URLs to a couple of websites on the subject

http://www.waterency...emistry-of.html

http://wiki.answers....better_than_air

[siamiam]

So I am coming to Thailand end of this month,are most bathrooms have just these electric units?Seems like I'll be taking cold shower.So if I'm in aplace I should look for the rest thing and press it?

It might depend on which part of Thailand you are going to be visiting. You may be more likely to find hotels in the north of the country with 'mini water heaters' because of the colder weather they have at times. Myself, I don't trust any ‘hotel situation’ where there is 'electricity in the shower'. As one poster has said, the two are just not a good mix. I try to insulate myself from the floor, as I stated previously in this thread, so that if I inadvertently come into contact with electricity by something that I touch while showering, I am less likely to suffer for it.

I don’t feel qualified to say anything about the reset buttons that are found on these appliances, so I will let more knowledgeable posters speak to that.

[Nisa]

Add some rubber gloves and this outfit should make you feel safe in the shower ...

But seriously ... does anybody have any stats on how many people die a year in any particular county that uses these electric-in-shower water heaters? My guess is the odds are very remote in terms of this happening especially if you are in a 3-star+ hotel. I'd be fairly certain more people die from a slip and fall in the shower. And in a hotel, after the first death or two I'm sure they would fix any wiring issues

The point really is that I think some people are getting too paranoid about this. If it is your home or condo then sure, take a peak or have somebody check if it is grounded properly but if you are in any kind of decent hotel I would only be concerned if the system is in the shower. Most half way decent hotels put the heating unit outside the shower such as under the sink as well as having a breaker that will blow if there is any short.

Also ... not sure if this is an international show but we have a show in the US called Myth Busters. They did an episode that showed running water (such as coming from a hose or shower or stream of urine) doesn't conduct electricity . I am not sure but would guess most pluming inside is PVC pipes and not copper or metal ... if true then risk of being shocked in a hotel with the unit outside the shower is about zero.

[Thaddeus]

Also ... not sure if this is an international show but we have a show in the US called Myth Busters. They did an episode that showed running water (such as coming from a hose or shower or stream of urine) doesn't conduct electricity.

Saw that one, if that is all you gleaned from it you need to watch it again and pay more attention.

[Nisa]

It is true that pure water will not conduct electricity, e.g. distilled water is a poor conductor of electricity.

Even pure water conducts electricity but no at all well and can actually be considered an insulator. However it still is a better conductor than air.

Keep in mind there is no such thing as pure water in nature and even if you did have pure water it would not be pure after being exposed to the atmosphere around us.

[dunkin2012]

Can you name the hotel?

Poor management.....

They should have made the ground (earth) system......

I need a good inspection for my shower too.............

[Nisa]

Also ... not sure if this is an international show but we have a show in the US called Myth Busters. They did an episode that showed running water (such as coming from a hose or shower or stream of urine) doesn't conduct electricity.

Saw that one, if that is all you gleaned from it you need to watch it again and pay more attention.

It is all that is relevant here. Unless you want to reference high voltage arcing through the air but that again is not running water (as described above) conducting electricity. Since water from a shower is not a steady stream and is a series of droplets with air between them it would be impossible for the water stream to conduct electricity from a shower water heating appliance. Are you suggesting the water coming out of the shower is anywhere near the kind of stream they created with their custom built super powerful water gun or that the voltage they were using in the show such as a 50,000 volt stun gun or million volt Telsa coil is similar to voltage in a home or hotel? The voltage of a shower heater as well as the voltage coming into a home is nowhere near powerful enough to create enough arcs to jump between the water droplets coming out of a shower. And if there is no +/- voltage difference between the shower head and your body there is no current flow. Even if their was enough power to generate arcing the power (wattage) would diminish with each arc through the air.

Is it possible that some showers don't spray water but simply dump it out such as water from a sink and that in this situation somebody's head might be so close to the shower head dumping water that the water doesn't have time to separate in the air and will conduct electricity ,, of course. But the point was a stream of water from a shower doesn't make for a good conductor of electricity as it relates to a current being carried from a malfunctioning water heater.

Not really sure what else you could be referring too.

[Nisa]

Can you name the hotel?

Poor management.....

They should have made the ground (earth) system......

I need a good inspection for my shower too.............

I was really hoping to find out what hotel too. It would seem more than fair and actually appropriate to name them.

[Thaddeus]

Nisa

You have two eyes, two ears, one brain and one mouth, I would suggest that you put one of them in gear and use another one in the correct ratio.

[dunkin2012]

Can you name the hotel?

Poor management.....

They should have made the ground (earth) system......

I need a good inspection for my shower too.............

I was really hoping to find out what hotel too. It would seem more than fair and actually appropriate to name them.

Nisa ...........

Or we can just assume the whole area is crap... and don't go there.

i have seen many cases similar to this with the locals too.

They died in a shower where the installation is bloody poor....

This isn't the 1st and won't be the last ......

[Nisa]

Nisa

You have two eyes, two ears, one brain and one mouth, I would suggest that you put one of them in gear and use another one in the correct ratio.

Well that really clears up your cryptic insinuation I missed some facts.

[Nisa]

Can you name the hotel?

Poor management.....

They should have made the ground (earth) system......

I need a good inspection for my shower too.............

I was really hoping to find out what hotel too. It would seem more than fair and actually appropriate to name them.

Nisa ...........

Or we can just assume the whole area is crap... and don't go there.

i have seen many cases similar to this with the locals too.

They died in a shower where the installation is bloody poor....

This is the 1st and won't be the last ......

I made a crack before that after the first death or two a hotel would kind of be forced to make sure all the units were in proper order but given the fact this could happen again in a month without us knowing it is the same hotel makes that an incorrect assumption if hotel management are sleazes..

[TAWP]

A followup article in Aftonbladet have the owner saying that it is 'impossible' that the couple died from electrocution.

Part of the defense being that others wasn't/haven't been killed...