Thaksins Drug War

[wintermute]

One reason why these things were never brought to trial was because a lot of high ranking political officials in the PAD "yellow shirt" faction were also involved. The whole extrajudicial killings and "tak bei" incident had a lot of Thais from different political factions all complicit with these incidents. This is why the cover up was so thorough. No one wants to talk about it because everyone was guilty.

That's a great new rumor! Wanna give us a clue how you came about this morsel of info?

Are you kidding? Just google up the general responsible for the '06 coup and his compatriots role in Tak Bei and a bunch of other shady stuff. You're naive if you think only Thaksin's hands are dirty.

[jdinasia]

One reason why these things were never brought to trial was because a lot of high ranking political officials in the PAD "yellow shirt" faction were also involved. The whole extrajudicial killings and "tak bei" incident had a lot of Thais from different political factions all complicit with these incidents. This is why the cover up was so thorough. No one wants to talk about it because everyone was guilty.

That's a great new rumor! Wanna give us a clue how you came about this morsel of info?

Are you kidding? Just google up the general responsible for the '06 coup and his compatriots role in Tak Bei and a bunch of other shady stuff. You're naive if you think only Thaksin's hands are dirty.

1) Are we discussing Tak Bai or the War on Drugs?

2) You mention the PAD in your first statement and now apparently Gen. Sonthi

????

Tak Bai is not a mystery and is not related to the War on Drugs. You might be able to make a tenuous argument that there is some kind of link between who pulled off the coup in 2006 and the PAD that was protesting Thaksin but there won't be anything but speculation to back you up.

If you want to discuss the War on Drugs, please feel free to tell us who in the PAD was involved I am not denying the possibility, but I rather doubt that any were just because of who the leaders of the PAD were and the fact that most of them were not in government or the police etc in 2003.

[philw]

One reason why these things were never brought to trial was because a lot of high ranking political officials in the PAD "yellow shirt" faction were also involved. The whole extrajudicial killings and "tak bei" incident had a lot of Thais from different political factions all complicit with these incidents. This is why the cover up was so thorough. No one wants to talk about it because everyone was guilty.

That's a great new rumor! Wanna give us a clue how you came about this morsel of info?

Are you kidding? Just google up the general responsible for the '06 coup and his compatriots role in Tak Bei and a bunch of other shady stuff. You're naive if you think only Thaksin's hands are dirty.

Thank you wintermute and perfectly correct.

JD it's not a morsel.........to my knowledge a morsel is merely a titbit,,,,,,,,,,

[lannarebirth]

One reason why these things were never brought to trial was because a lot of high ranking political officials in the PAD "yellow shirt" faction were also involved. The whole extrajudicial killings and "tak bei" incident had a lot of Thais from different political factions all complicit with these incidents. This is why the cover up was so thorough. No one wants to talk about it because everyone was guilty.

That's a great new rumor! Wanna give us a clue how you came about this morsel of info?

Are you kidding? Just google up the general responsible for the '06 coup and his compatriots role in Tak Bei and a bunch of other shady stuff. You're naive if you think only Thaksin's hands are dirty.

Thank you wintermute and perfectly correct.

JD it's not a morsel.........to my knowledge a morsel is merely a titbit,,,,,,,,,,

I loathe Thaksin, but I wouldn't hang Tak Bei on him. I think most Thais understand it goes higher than him. As for the war on drugs on think he cleaned out a lot of the competition.

[jdinasia]

One reason why these things were never brought to trial was because a lot of high ranking political officials in the PAD "yellow shirt" faction were also involved. The whole extrajudicial killings and "tak bei" incident had a lot of Thais from different political factions all complicit with these incidents. This is why the cover up was so thorough. No one wants to talk about it because everyone was guilty.

That's a great new rumor! Wanna give us a clue how you came about this morsel of info?

Are you kidding? Just google up the general responsible for the '06 coup and his compatriots role in Tak Bei and a bunch of other shady stuff. You're naive if you think only Thaksin's hands are dirty.

Thank you wintermute and perfectly correct.

JD it's not a morsel.........to my knowledge a morsel is merely a titbit,,,,,,,,,,

Wow to you too then! Please feel free to substantiate these rumors, if you can even figure out how wintermute went from the PAD and the war on drugs, to Tak Bai and other shady stuff I really would be interested in your information about the PAD and the war on drugs. The army being the primary issue at Tak Bai isn't really arguable but Thaksin did set the tone for the restive South.

So fill us in on this inside info Philw We could stick to the War on Drugs for this thread .. feel free to create a new one for Tak Bai and Kru Seh if you would like!

[JurgenG]

How long will it take before we can move beyond the Thaksin is god / Thaksin is evil debate ?

People who talk don't know, people who know don't talk .... still so true !

[pauljones]

The question is: why do Thaksins enemies refuse to investigate?

Perhaps someone else is to blame that currently has allot of power.

[Moonrakers]

The question is: why do Thaksins enemies refuse to investigate?

I can only think you are not aware that your question is rhetorical. Otherwise, why would you continue to ask it?

Or.....

Option B: Trolling

Edited April 5, 2011 by Moonrakers

[jayboy]

The question is: why do Thaksins enemies refuse to investigate?

Perhaps someone else is to blame that currently has allot of power.

The only pertinent question in this depressingly low quality thread.I have rarely seen so much misinformation and half truths.

I'm not sure it's right however to pin the blame on any individual or even group of individuals.The drugs war policy, at least initially until its flaws were made manifest, had broad elite support and for that matter popular support.Even now few Thais regard the drugs war with the distaste it deserves

Among some naive foreigners there was an attempt to "pursue" Thaksin for this,being the worst of his crimes.There is no dodging Thaksin's culpability here notwithstanding the policy's popularity.There was never any attempt however by the junta or successive governments to pursue him on these charges, notwithstanding there was a reasonable chance foreign governments would have extradited him.They were left with the relatively trivial charges which most foreign governments correctly saw as politically motivated.

[geriatrickid]

I believe there was an investigation and the results said there were no extra-judicial killings. All deaths were reported legitimate. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong -- see above quote from The Economist.

He is correct. Subsequent investigation did not find evidence to proceed with charges despite the military junta's attempt to paint the blame in 2006.

During the post-military coup government of Gen Surayud Chulanont, a panel was appointed to probe the alleged extrajudicial killings of some 2,500 people during the Thaksin Shinawatra administration’s war on drugs in 2003.

Mr Kanit was named to head the investigation which has not yet provided any findings indicating persons responsible for the killings.

The committee found that as many as 1,400 of the 2,500 killed had no link to drugs but it failed to establish substantial evidence to press charge against anyone with the murders.

If some drug dealers killed innocent people in crossfire is Thaksin to blame? If some crooked cops killed people or made mistakes how can Thaksin be blamed? The government had to use the civil authorities as it was a time of a quiet hidden insurrection. The drug gangs had taken control of the police, judiciary and government in some regions.

Why are foreigners in denial on this? It was the drug cartels giving the orders in the border region of Burma. This is why the Thaksin government acted with the support of all levels of government including the military.

Edited April 6, 2011 by geriatrickid

[jdinasia]

I believe there was an investigation and the results said there were no extra-judicial killings. All deaths were reported legitimate. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong -- see above quote from The Economist.

He is correct. Subsequent investigation did not find evidence to proceed with charges despite the military junta's attempt to paint the blame in 2006.

During the post-military coup government of Gen Surayud Chulanont, a panel was appointed to probe the alleged extrajudicial killings of some 2,500 people during the Thaksin Shinawatra administration’s war on drugs in 2003. Mr Kanit was named to head the investigation which has not yet provided any findings indicating persons responsible for the killings. The committee found that as many as 1,400 of the 2,500 killed had no link to drugs but it failed to establish substantial evidence to press charge against anyone with the murders. If some drug dealers killed innocent people in crossfire is Thaksin to blame? If some crooked cops killed people or made mistakes how can Thaksin be blamed? The government had to use the civil authorities as it was a time of a quiet hidden insurrection. The drug gangs had taken control of the police, judiciary and government in some regions.

Why are foreigners in denial on this? It was the drug cartels giving the orders in the border region of Burma. This is why the Thaksin government acted with the support of all levels of government including the military.

Nice try but nothing factual exists in your suppositions >If , if if if

Nowhere will you find any official statement that was made that even hints at "there were no extra-judicial killings." If you find one, please bring it to our attention.

[Moonrakers]

I believe there was an investigation and the results said there were no extra-judicial killings. All deaths were reported legitimate. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong -- see above quote from The Economist.

He is correct. Subsequent investigation did not find evidence to proceed with charges despite the military junta's attempt to paint the blame in 2006.

During the post-military coup government of Gen Surayud Chulanont, a panel was appointed to probe the alleged extrajudicial killings of some 2,500 people during the Thaksin Shinawatra administration's war on drugs in 2003. Mr Kanit was named to head the investigation which has not yet provided any findings indicating persons responsible for the killings. The committee found that as many as 1,400 of the 2,500 killed had no link to drugs but it failed to establish substantial evidence to press charge against anyone with the murders. If some drug dealers killed innocent people in crossfire is Thaksin to blame? If some crooked cops killed people or made mistakes how can Thaksin be blamed? The government had to use the civil authorities as it was a time of a quiet hidden insurrection. The drug gangs had taken control of the police, judiciary and government in some regions.

Why are foreigners in denial on this? It was the drug cartels giving the orders in the border region of Burma. This is why the Thaksin government acted with the support of all levels of government including the military.

I had you down as an intelligent person GK but do you seriously expect any of us to believed this.

It's just a theory, and a theory without a shred of evidence to support it. In fact, you are expecting us to disregard any blame on Thaksin because of a lack of evidence, while at the same time expecting us to believe some other theory which probably has even less evidence.

At no point did Thaksin himself say it was a war against the cartels, rather he openly claimed it was a 'war' against the drug dealers. He openly claimed that drug dealers were to be shot and killed by the police. He wasn't acting to stop some kind of mini war at all, his quotes can be found all over the media for christs sake.

Stop making stuff up.

Wibble

Here's some DIRECT QUOTES from the horses mouth (and others)

http://www.bangkokpo...php?f=72&t=5036

Spin that

Edited April 6, 2011 by Moonrakers

[murrinman]

i'll tell you in my little village they were running scared of the whole yabaa scene when the shoot first orders came out but now the ya baa dealers are out and about again with little fear as long as the right hands are greased it sucks bring back the 9mm law again nothing worse than junkies i say

[SteeleJoe]

“There is nothing under the sun that the police cannot do.”

Classic. Thaksin used that quote? I know it well. Police General Phao Siyanon was one of the most dangerous men this country has ever seen. A hugely powerful person who his own army (supplied generously with everything a small army would have by the CIA) who amassed a fortune through his control of the opium trade and who took corruption and abuse of power to astonishing heights even by Thai standards.

Yes, in his time there was nothing the Thai police couldn't do. I don't think he meant that as a comment about their capabilities.

[TheLaughingMan]

Ive lost all respect for anything GeriatricKid will ever again have to say after reading his posts here.

[sunholidaysun1]

YAWN YAWN YAWN , lets move away from THAT MAN, he is no longer ANYONE .

[Buchholz]

He is correct. Subsequent investigation did not find evidence to proceed with charges despite the military junta's attempt to paint the blame in 2006.

During the post-military coup government of Gen Surayud Chulanont, a panel was appointed to probe the alleged extrajudicial killings of some 2,500 people during the Thaksin Shinawatra administration's war on drugs in 2003. Mr Kanit was named to head the investigation which has not yet provided any findings indicating persons responsible for the killings. The committee found that as many as 1,400 of the 2,500 killed had no link to drugs but it failed to establish substantial evidence to press charge against anyone with the murders. If some drug dealers killed innocent people in crossfire is Thaksin to blame? If some crooked cops killed people or made mistakes how can Thaksin be blamed? The government had to use the civil authorities as it was a time of a quiet hidden insurrection. The drug gangs had taken control of the police, judiciary and government in some regions.

Why are foreigners in denial on this? It was the drug cartels giving the orders in the border region of Burma. This is why the Thaksin government acted with the support of all levels of government including the military.

I had you down as an intelligent person GK but do you seriously expect any of us to believed this.

It's just a theory, and a theory without a shred of evidence to support it. In fact, you are expecting us to disregard any blame on Thaksin because of a lack of evidence, while at the same time expecting us to believe some other theory which probably has even less evidence.

At no point did Thaksin himself say it was a war against the cartels, rather he openly claimed it was a 'war' against the drug dealers. He openly claimed that drug dealers were to be shot and killed by the police. He wasn't acting to stop some kind of mini war at all, his quotes can be found all over the media for christs sake.

Stop making stuff up.

Wibble

Here's some DIRECT QUOTES from the horses mouth (and others)

http://www.bangkokpo...php?f=72&t=5036

Spin that

From beginning to end, the Drug War was Thaksin's "baby"

The campaign which had been initiated by deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his Cabinet

Among the gathered evidences were documenting orders and drug suppression policies issued by the Thaksin administration along with CDs taped during meetings chaired by Thaksin, who gave Cabinet members orders and signals that led to the inhumane slaughtering in 2003.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1003332

Rah Rah Rah! Only Thaksin could eliminate all the drugs throughout all areas of the whole country!

Thaksin declares the country 'drug free area'

"The government is pleased to announce that the country is now a drug-free area and will proclaim victory in its war on drugs," said Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

- The Nation / April 13, 2003

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Thaksin-declares-the-country-drug-free-area-77076.html

================================================

2,500 slaughtered in order to make some asinine, absurd, patently false claim.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Buchholz

[TheLaughingMan]

YAWN YAWN YAWN , lets move away from THAT MAN, he is no longer ANYONE .

This is sarcasm right? He is no longer anyone? He is no longer destroying this country at this very moment? He's an active terrorist constantly coming up with new ways to screw with Thailand to get his money and power back. He most definately IS still someone. The ignorance I read here sometimes blows my fuc_king mind.

[jayjayjayjay]

When you go after drug dealers, you're a criminal.

This is Thailand, don't try to understand

So funny so true.

[Flatouthruthefog]

<br />

<br />YAWN YAWN YAWN , lets move away from THAT MAN, he is no longer ANYONE .<br />

<br /><br />This is sarcasm right?  He is no longer anyone?  He is no longer destroying this country at this very moment?  He's an active terrorist constantly coming up with new ways to screw with Thailand to get his money and power back.  He most definately IS still someone.  The ignorance I read here sometimes blows my fuc_king mind.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Stay cool and stay in here, please.

You are the still small voice in this wilderness of callous (and careless) misinformation!

[jayboy]

From beginning to end, the Drug War was Thaksin's "baby"

I agree with you and it was the worst of his crimes.

Care to explain why he was never charged and instead was pursued with relatively trivial offences (in comparison)?

It would be wonderful to receive an honest reply on this.

[jdinasia]

From beginning to end, the Drug War was Thaksin's "baby"

I agree with you and it was the worst of his crimes.

Care to explain why he was never charged and instead was pursued with relatively trivial offences (in comparison)?

It would be wonderful to receive an honest reply on this.

I'll give it a go.

It would likely implicate members of many of the civil servants at many levels, from the Tambon offices all the way to the top in BKK, so that limits the political will (police, governors appointed from BKK, local administrations etc). That, of course, is supposition. I welcome any reply that has any facts

and 2 (since you are actually asking 2 questions)

You go for the easiest cases to prove and get a conviction on first to limit the actions that Thaksin can take. The other cases are still lined up against Thaksin and can move forward upon his presence in court to answer charges. The criminal conviction already in place sent him scurrying away. I am sure they were hoping he'd just hide out and be a good boy on that first conviction. If you think it is trivial (and by comparison to 2500 extra-judicial killings it is), ask yourself why he didn't show up for sentencing and immediately lodge an appeal. (Appeals require new evidence -- and any way you cut it -- legally his signature on the land deal for his wife was an open and shut case.) Once in jail and less able (not unable) to use soem of his own political juice, some of the other cases could have moved forward. He ran. The appeal would have been denied in all likelihood and staying would have made him available to show up in court to answer the other charges.

The prosecution did the right thing in going for the easy win first. Get the criminal in jail and then work to prosecute the harder cases as you go. Had they gone for a more major case first and failed and THEN followed with a minor one cries of "I am being persecuted" and "politically motivated" would have had more weight.

In the history of my own country there have been major criminals that were never brought down for their serious crimes, but that were brought down on more 'technical crimes" such as tax-evasion.

[Moonrakers]

Al-Capone, of course.

[chachachacha]

From beginning to end, the Drug War was Thaksin's "baby"

I agree with you and it was the worst of his crimes.

Care to explain why he was never charged and instead was pursued with relatively trivial offences (in comparison)?

It would be wonderful to receive an honest reply on this.

I'll give it a go.

It would likely implicate members of many of the civil servants at many levels, from the Tambon offices all the way to the top in BKK, so that limits the political will (police, governors appointed from BKK, local administrations etc). That, of course, is supposition. I welcome any reply that has any facts

and 2 (since you are actually asking 2 questions)

You go for the easiest cases to prove and get a conviction on first to limit the actions that Thaksin can take. The other cases are still lined up against Thaksin and can move forward upon his presence in court to answer charges. The criminal conviction already in place sent him scurrying away. I am sure they were hoping he'd just hide out and be a good boy on that first conviction. If you think it is trivial (and by comparison to 2500 extra-judicial killings it is), ask yourself why he didn't show up for sentencing and immediately lodge an appeal. (Appeals require new evidence -- and any way you cut it -- legally his signature on the land deal for his wife was an open and shut case.) Once in jail and less able (not unable) to use soem of his own political juice, some of the other cases could have moved forward. He ran. The appeal would have been denied in all likelihood and staying would have made him available to show up in court to answer the other charges.

The prosecution did the right thing in going for the easy win first. Get the criminal in jail and then work to prosecute the harder cases as you go. Had they gone for a more major case first and failed and THEN followed with a minor one cries of "I am being persecuted" and "politically motivated" would have had more weight.

In the history of my own country there have been major criminals that were never brought down for their serious crimes, but that were brought down on more 'technical crimes" such as tax-evasion.

Can we have the facts of these other charges ?

I do agree that the Bush Family & all the other Presidents have not been put to trial for shall we say conspiracy to murder . Yes every US president has been a murderer.

[jdinasia]

Al-Capone, of course.

For one ... it was an easy jump. Boss Tweed comes to mind too ... they got him for embezzlement I think and not anything to do with the ways he maintained control in some areas of the Irish immigrant community in NYC.

edit --- chachacha -- feel free to look up the other charges pending against Thaksin (and the list of still more that can be filed)

Edited April 6, 2011 by jdinasia

[chachachacha]

Al-Capone, of course.

For one ... it was an easy jump. Boss Tweed comes to mind too ... they got him for embezzlement I think and not anything to do with the ways he maintained control in some areas of the Irish immigrant community in NYC.

edit --- chachacha -- feel free to look up the other charges pending against Thaksin (and the list of still more that can be filed)

It is you that is stating that there has been big charges waitinfg for him since day 1 so show us. You always cwant others to show proof so do it yourself

[TheLaughingMan]

No we just expect lazy people to do their own research when it is readily and easily available.

[chachachacha]

No we just expect lazy people to do their own research when it is readily and easily available.

Which means you cant supply the backup . LOL so easy

[jdinasia]

No we just expect lazy people to do their own research when it is readily and easily available.

Agree, had I said the other 19 charges then sure I could see someone calling me on it, on the other hand to deny that there are other charges would be ludicrous. Chachacha can chachacha on over to google ((Google returns 126,000 hits for the search "Arrest Warrant for Thaksin"

Bloomberg

Thaksin Arrest Warrants Grow as Terrorism Claim Added (Update1)

May 25, 2010, 9:10 AM EDT

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-25/thaksin-arrest-warrants-grow-as-terrorism-claim-added-update1-.html

I assume that will suffice for other charges

[chachachacha]

No we just expect lazy people to do their own research when it is readily and easily available.

Agree, had I said the other 19 charges then sure I could see someone calling me on it, on the other hand to deny that there are other charges would be ludicrous. Chachacha can chachacha on over to google ((Google returns 126,000 hits for the search "Arrest Warrant for Thaksin"

Bloomberg

Thaksin Arrest Warrants Grow as Terrorism Claim Added (Update1)

May 25, 2010, 9:10 AM EDT

http://www.businessw...d-update1-.html

I assume that will suffice for other charges

N no you don't get away with that . You stated that they charged him with the small charges so to get him in nick for the bigger charges. Given that the so called bigger charges are alleged to of taken place after is conviction in absentee what you are saying is total BS.

So no it will not suffice