Time For Action

[BangTaoBoy]

Let us break down the comment.

"If Thailand was that bad, this very lucrative website wouldn't exist"

So if Thailand was that bad, as in, if Thailand was well known for having an almost openly corrupt penal system, then ThaiVisa would not exist? Well, as you have just stated that Malaysia is less corrupt than Thailand, that must mean that you think Thailand is known for corruption in some areas of society. So Thailand is that bad, as you have just proved, but TV does exist.

"and it exists because the Farangs that live don't think that it's so bad, "

Possibly, maybe they think one part of the system/society is bad, but the pros outweight the cons? (here is an example of a generalisation that i did not disagree with, but I pointed it out)

"and advertisers must think that its OK to advertise here, else they would surely have the intelligence to be gone to pastures new, right ?"

As I said, and everyone in business knows, advertising only works when there is exposure, and a web board with thousands of users would mean massive exposure, quite obviously. Whether Thailand's penal system is corrupt or not and whether it is morally wrong to post advertisements on a web board that is about a country that has corruption so blatantly in daily life is beside the point as far as advertisers go. I mean, we can see adverts for 24 hour massage parlours on this very page and while some believe that to be morally wrong, the advertisers dont, because it is teir business and they are making money from it.

In actual fact, I couldn't understand why marketing was brought into the topic at all. This last statement I found completely meaningless.

So, as you can see, rather than disagreeing with the comment, I was merely stating that it was an over-generalisation that didn't, in fact, make sense.

This is fun (not for anybody else mind you, so perhaps we should call it a day)

Your very last statement, was that you didn't disagree with the comments, just that they were over generalisations that didn't make sense. If you think they don't make sense, surely by default, that means you can't possibly agree with them?? Ergo you disagree with them, and the reason why we're having this enthralling conversation.

What you have done, is taken the three statements made by 'MrsMills' and elaborated, over complicated, and put your own spin on them. When in fact all three are very simple statements, all contributing to the same point.

Take the first one for example. I'm fairly sure that the poster, was implying, that if people thought living here was so bad. If living in a country that had a corrupt government was so bad. If living in a place where votes were bought, contracts were bought, the powers that be, pulled all the strings to line their own nests, if all that was so unbearable, uncomfortable and unenjoyable a place to live and visit on holiday, then why do so many hundreds of thousands do it, and continue to do it on a regular basis? You've taken his words and come up with a complete different meaning for them. Perhaps it's you that's got it right, but I don't think so.

The other two points were simply extensions of the first. Without that many people coming to Thailand, without this countries huge popularity (despite the for mentioned corruption) then this web site couldn't possibly exist, unless it was 1/1000th of the size. Which quite cleverly leads on to point three. If the site is only 1/1000th the size, advertisers wouldn't part with their cash, to advertise on it.

I'm sure you will feel the need to have another go, but I don't think there is anything else I could possibly add, so I will leave it there. Nice to see you can argue a point without spitting your dummie out though. .

[Lannatyne]

Having trawled through 3 pages of, by and large, pretty good posts, I feel the actual point of our disatisfaction with the cruise ship events hasn't been covered.

As with many posters, i don't use tuk-tuks, hate their general attitude, but know for certainty that riding a tuk-tuk is part of the "Visit Experience" for nearly all holidaymakers. I got a kick out of that myself a few years ago.

The point which I personally think has been missed is the action of blockading and stopping legitimately contracted tour operators from carrying out their business. This is a 'home' complaint - not an international one. Why is it that a group of individuals illegally blocking the right of way, can pressurize a vice-governor, police chief and marine police chief into concessions. I wrote on another thread about why is it that those legitimate tour operators don't file complaints to the police against the tuk-tuk cooperatives blocking their righful, contracted access?

Maybe this has all be covered in the thread, though. The real holders of authority on this island are simply untouchable. Unless and until changes happen right at the very top in Bangkok, then situations like this will continue.

Some information is on the internet about various people speculating over the years about a Singaporesque UDI occuring in Phuket. Well, some of us would say that, in the way people and business here operate, Phuket is already separate and clinging to the mainland only by a couple of bridges.

[TehBen]

This is fun (not for anybody else mind you, so perhaps we should call it a day)

Your very last statement, was that you didn't disagree with the comments, just that they were over generalisations that didn't make sense. If you think they don't make sense, surely by default, that means you can't possibly agree with them?? Ergo you disagree with them, and the reason why we're having this enthralling conversation.

What you have done, is taken the three statements made by 'MrsMills' and elaborated, over complicated, and put your own spin on them. When in fact all three are very simple statements, all contributing to the same point.

Tis fun, though you are right, this will be my last post on the subject

Stating that I thought that the statements did not make sense, does not automatically mean I disagree with them. I just mentioned that I did not understand what the point was of talking about advertising, when there are possibly hundreds of better analogies that could have been used to better make the point, what with it being such a subjective topic.

I'm sure you will feel the need to have another go, but I don't think there is anything else I could possibly add, so I will leave it there. Nice to see you can argue a point without spitting your dummie out though. .

As I said, it is (was) fun, and quite refreshing.

In actual fact this situation will probably never affect me anyway as I have never been to Phuket and I don't ever plan on going there in the foreseeable future, mainly because of the number of tourists and ex-pats, no offence intended to any readers that may possibly take offence, I just prefer quieter places. The tuk-tuks in Chachoengsao are trouble free, except for most of them being complete maniacs

Edited April 8, 2011 by TehBen

[brieno1955]

SCUBBABUDHA said;

I have been as vocal on this issue as any, (with the exception perhaps of LivinLos) and I even had some cowardly farang I offended here on Thaivisa who claimed to be married to the tuk tuk mafia anonymously call me when he found my number in a car ad I had running and threatened my life and claimed he was going to "pass my info on the the mafia". lol. Some will say I have been watching too many mafia flics,

I started reading this thread about tuk tuks and brought back memories of many past threads.I do remember happyinpatong or someone along those lines puting up a one sided defense of tuk tuk drivers.

i think you have used a bit of sensationalism just to make your point here. Remember well that his defense was .not of mafia at all, but he had pointed out that his family actually owned their own tuk tuk and under threat of retaliation from said mafia that they had to toe the line.I remember it well because you and all and sundry attacked his post remorselessly, claiming then as you do now that his family was part of mafia.[will see if i can get the post back and show you] sure i am right about this tho'.

Also how on earth could he or anyone else get your number from a car ad..and relate it to your nic.. scubbabudha?Had to be someone you know, playing a prank .

You conveniently forgot this time to mention your run-in with a tuk tuk last year when you gave the driver the bird and after he chased you home you posted crazy tuk tuk tris to run me off the road..[see if i can find that one also and repost it...was quite funny IIRC.Didn't you also at some time propose a direct confrontation with these drivers..like a demonstation or somit?

Hmmmm maybe you do indeed watch to many mafia movies..or do you think that oversensationalising this will really make a difference at all. or do you have a motive..bus company or what? Too much effort here from one guy just to show that you care about the tourists who are the only ones that use them anyways.

The only way they will cease is the day that corruption in Thailand from the very top right down to the bottomfeeders such as jetski guys, tuk tuk drivers, etc is stopped.

That will be about the same day that hell freezes over!!

Edited April 8, 2011 by brieno1955

[ScubaBuddha]

The perrenial favourite topic of tuk-tuks. It's pretty much all been said before and I won't add to it except to say, I feel sorry for the Phuket Town tuk-tuk guys getting tarred with the same brush.

The Phuket Town tuk-tuks are cheap enough that Thais use them.

I used one a couple of months ago from Rajabat Technical college to Wat Chalong. Only cost 250 Bt.

The drivers without exception have been very friendly and helpful.

If people need a model to reform the tuk-tuk rip-offs, look no further than Phuket Town.

No doubt there are less problems there, but on a recent trip I learned that the tuk tuks at the provincial bus station will not take passengers to the local bus station, period. Only option is motosai, which with bags is not easy. Tuk tuks will only take passengers to their end beach destinations which for Mrs. Scuba and I would have been 500 baht. In any other part of Thailand that is a 175 baht ride.

[katasyd]

The same old redundant topic with the redundant arguments that will never eventuate.

Cue another tuk tuk thread in 3 months and counting.

[MrE]

It would be interesting to know how many people who post on this forum actually use tuk tuks.

We do not use them.

I am glad to see that someone reading my original post got the point. Gettng everyone to not use tuk-tuks is the solution to the problem. It was not to continuously post the same repetitious criticisms of Thai government, Thai society and Thai shortcomings. It was not to talk about getting in a confrontation with the tuk-tuk mafia or corrupt officials. The idea is to spread the word using the massive abilities of the internet to inform tourists before they get here not to use tuk-tuks and to present alternatives. Giving advice on visiting Phuket will not discourage tourism and will not endanger the blogger who can be working from any computer anywhere in the world.

It is a matter of posting well-written articles on the many web sites, and in print and broadcast media in a variety of languages so that anyone coming here will know why they should never use a tuk-tuk. With the right coverage, it will greatly affect their usage, which in turn should either force them to lower prices and behave better or put them out of business. It doesn't matter who is behind them. Even if it is God herself, there is nothing that can be done to stop the dissemination of information about the negatives of using tuk--tuks in Phuket. But it must be done as a professional, commercial and competant enterprise. That is why it needs to funded by local businesses and ex-pat residents who do not want to see Phuket deteriorate further. If every private person who is pissed off at the tuk-tuks put in a couple hundred baht a month (a beer a week?) and every business maybe a thousand per month, it could be done right. With the vast majority of tourists knowing to avoid the tuk-tuks, they would slowly run out of business.

Please no more dissertations on the violence of the mafia, the corruption of Thai police officials or how information will destroy tourism. Let's just actually work on solving the problem not kvetching about it. The latter accomplishes nothing.

[steelepulse]

>>Gettng everyone to not use tuk-tuks is the solution to the problem.

The only problem with this is,what other options do tourists have? They can walk, take the bus from patong to phuket town, then to karon etc. and waste 3 hours of their day, rent a car, or rent a motorbike. There is no easy way to get from A to B now to go from one popular location to another using public transportation.

[BangTaoBoy]

I am glad to see that someone reading my original post got the point. Gettng everyone to not use tuk-tuks is the solution to the problem. It was not to continuously post the same repetitious criticisms of Thai government, Thai society and Thai shortcomings. It was not to talk about getting in a confrontation with the tuk-tuk mafia or corrupt officials. The idea is to spread the word using the massive abilities of the internet to inform tourists before they get here not to use tuk-tuks and to present alternatives. Giving advice on visiting Phuket will not discourage tourism and will not endanger the blogger who can be working from any computer anywhere in the world.

It is a matter of posting well-written articles on the many web sites, and in print and broadcast media in a variety of languages so that anyone coming here will know why they should never use a tuk-tuk. With the right coverage, it will greatly affect their usage, which in turn should either force them to lower prices and behave better or put them out of business. It doesn't matter who is behind them. Even if it is God herself, there is nothing that can be done to stop the dissemination of information about the negatives of using tuk--tuks in Phuket. But it must be done as a professional, commercial and competant enterprise. That is why it needs to funded by local businesses and ex-pat residents who do not want to see Phuket deteriorate further. If every private person who is pissed off at the tuk-tuks put in a couple hundred baht a month (a beer a week?) and every business maybe a thousand per month, it could be done right. With the vast majority of tourists knowing to avoid the tuk-tuks, they would slowly run out of business.

Please no more dissertations on the violence of the mafia, the corruption of Thai police officials or how information will destroy tourism. Let's just actually work on solving the problem not kvetching about it. The latter accomplishes nothing.

So 'MrE', between your first post and this one, what have you done to get the ball rolling?? I assume you aren't just a hot air machine, and you are actually going to put some of these ideas in to practice? Or are you just the brains behind the operation, someone else has to do all the actual work, is that it?

This is about the 5th time I've said this, but it's relevent, so I'm going to have to say it again. The vast majority of people who use Tuk Tuks, don't have a problem with them. They are tourists, they want to get from A to B, they are happy to pay the price that is asked, because they are on holiday and everybody knows that you get gouged a bit at tourist destinations (the world over)

You campaigning to stop people using them, is like me campaigning to stop you going to Patong beach, because I think Patong beach is a horrible place! Let people make their own decisions, and that decision for most tourists, is to use Tuk Tuks happily.

Anyway, like I said in a previous post. Write your letters, start your action group, and I'll be back in 12 months time, to remind you of your plans and to ask you why nothing came of them.

[stevenl]

But why would tourists stop using tuktuks? They are in the vast, vast majority happy with the service provided. Some may think they are somewhat expensive, most don't.

[appropriate]

And people are on about the cruise ship fiasco.

Ask any short term tourist coming to THailand whether they want a 30 minute ride into town on a big coach, or in a tuk tuk and I'd wager 90%+ would go for the tuk tuk.

[iSabai]

I see tuk tuks full of seemingly happy tourists go by every day. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. Who am I to tell them they shouldn't be happily using them? Up to them.

I don't use them, and I'd love it if there was cheap transport around the island for expats to use. But I ain't holding my breath....

[BangTaoBoy]

I see tuk tuks full of seemingly happy tourists go by every day. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. Who am I to tell them they shouldn't be happily using them? Up to them.

I don't use them, and I'd love it if there was cheap transport around the island for expats to use. But I ain't holding my breath....

Good, balanced attitude to have.

It's OK to wish the situation was different, and acknowledging problems, doesn't do any harm.

Getting very uptight about something that doesn't even affect you directly, (or very few other people.) And putting lots of energy in to trying to change something, that can't be changed, and doesn't desperately need changing anyway, is a waist of time, that could be spent in so many better ways on this island.

[Wellington]

I see tuk tuks full of seemingly happy tourists go by every day. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. Who am I to tell them they shouldn't be happily using them? Up to them.

I don't use them, and I'd love it if there was cheap transport around the island for expats to use. But I ain't holding my breath....

Good, balanced attitude to have.

It's OK to wish the situation was different, and acknowledging problems, doesn't do any harm.

Getting very uptight about something that doesn't even affect you directly, (or very few other people.) And putting lots of energy in to trying to change something, that can't be changed, and doesn't desperately need changing anyway, is a waist of time, that could be spent in so many better ways on this island.

We have lived in Thailand since 2002. We have never used a TukTuk. We do not intend to ever use a TT.

The problem will not go away but it is not a problem to the short term tourists who take a ride as part of their adventure, and because they have no alternative.

The worry to me was the attitude of the police and Governors staff who arranged a compromise which took four hours by which time the ship sailed away and neither the TT drivers nor the tour company were winners. And although a blockade was entirely illegal the police arrested nobody?

In a small way the story made headlines but neither of the Phuket papers actually took issue with the illegality side of the issue.

A lot of very good posts have appeared here in the last couple of days, but, but, next week, next year ,the same problem will come up again and we will all wring our hands and have a moan and go back to the pool or a good book and it's forgotten .

This is a Phuket problem that can only be solved by The Thais, IF they want to.

[thaiwanderer]

It would be interesting to know how many people who post on this forum actually use tuk tuks.

We do not use them.

I am glad to see that someone reading my original post got the point. Gettng everyone to not use tuk-tuks is the solution to the problem. It was not to continuously post the same repetitious criticisms of Thai government, Thai society and Thai shortcomings. It was not to talk about getting in a confrontation with the tuk-tuk mafia or corrupt officials. The idea is to spread the word using the massive abilities of the internet to inform tourists before they get here not to use tuk-tuks and to present alternatives. Giving advice on visiting Phuket will not discourage tourism and will not endanger the blogger who can be working from any computer anywhere in the world.

It is a matter of posting well-written articles on the many web sites, and in print and broadcast media in a variety of languages so that anyone coming here will know why they should never use a tuk-tuk. With the right coverage, it will greatly affect their usage, which in turn should either force them to lower prices and behave better or put them out of business. It doesn't matter who is behind them. Even if it is God herself, there is nothing that can be done to stop the dissemination of information about the negatives of using tuk--tuks in Phuket. But it must be done as a professional, commercial and competant enterprise. That is why it needs to funded by local businesses and ex-pat residents who do not want to see Phuket deteriorate further. If every private person who is pissed off at the tuk-tuks put in a couple hundred baht a month (a beer a week?) and every business maybe a thousand per month, it could be done right. With the vast majority of tourists knowing to avoid the tuk-tuks, they would slowly run out of business.

Please no more dissertations on the violence of the mafia, the corruption of Thai police officials or how information will destroy tourism. Let's just actually work on solving the problem not kvetching about it. The latter accomplishes nothing.

What alternatives are there for tourists?

What reasons are there for suggesting people shouldn't use tuk tuks that don't equally apply to using any other kind of service or business in Phuket?

The logical consequence of your position is that people shouldn't visit Phuket at all which I doubt is what business owners would really want.

[NamKangMan]

As I have said many times before, the answer is to make the tuk-tuks drive around like the baht buses do in Pattaya. Hop on - hop off for 10 baht - I would even be prepared to pay double than in Pattaya, 20 baht.

The locals, tourist and expats would all use this service, as they do in Pattaya. The drivers would make more money. Traffic would decrease on the roads. Death and injuries from motor vehicle accidents would decrease.

Businesses that are on the fringe of the "tourist strips" would have more occupancy and customers as most return visitors now stay in accommodation that is walking distance to the nightlife etc after learning about the tuk-tuk rip off on their first visit . So, the tourist dollar would be more evenly spread across the island.

The rip offs would stop because the journey is a flat fee.

The lack of affordable transport on Phuket is really having a damaging effect on tourism on the island.

Edited April 11, 2011 by NamKangMan

[notbritish]

As I have said many times before, the answer is to make the tuk-tuks drive around like the baht buses do in Pattaya. Hop on - hop off for 10 baht - I would even be prepared to pay double than in Pattaya, 20 baht.

The locals, tourist and expats would all use this service, as they do in Pattaya. The drivers would make more money. Traffic would decrease on the roads. Death and injuries from motor vehicle accidents would decrease.

Businesses that are on the fringe of the "tourist strips" would have more occupancy and customers as most return visitors now stay in accommodation that is walking distance to the nightlife etc after learning about the tuk-tuk rip off on their first visit . So, the tourist dollar would be more evenly spread across the island.

The rip offs would stop because the journey is a flat fee.

The lack of affordable transport on Phuket is really having a damaging effect on tourism on the island.

Anything under 100baht would be sort of fine...

[Ping]

That's what they used to do - sort of. They used to circle around touting people on the streets. It created such a nuisance that they were stopped from doing it. In those days (20 - 25 years ago), a local fare in Patong was 30 baht.

[stevenl]

The lack of affordable transport on Phuket is really having a damaging effect on tourism on the island.

Is it? Any sources for that?

[falkan]

Russians with the Chinese and they do not care if a tukk costs 500tbh in Patong, it is cheap for them..

[notbritish]

Russians with the Chinese and they do not care if a tukk costs 500tbh in Patong, it is cheap for them..

I dont know about mainland china, but in taiwan a A/C taxi is just a little more expensive than bangkok's taxis.. i doubt 500 baht is "cheap"

And russia is an extremely poor country overall, so i doubt 500baht for 100meters is "normal".

Anyways, most american and canadian travelers are used to renting jeeps/motorbikes when they go on vacations, if people from other countries could clever up a little, tuktuk would not be a problem anymore. Half the fun in going to a third world country for a week is to drive around yourself with top down/motorbike

[falkan]

Russians with the Chinese and they do not care if a tukk costs 500tbh in Patong, it is cheap for them..

I dont know about mainland china, but in taiwan a A/C taxi is just a little more expensive than bangkok's taxis.. i doubt 500 baht is "cheap"

And russia is an extremely poor country overall, so i doubt 500baht for 100meters is "normal".

I thought we were in Thailand, and it s not the poor Russians or Chinese who come here on holiday..

[notbritish]

Rich people dont usualy take tuktuks, they have their own drivers or they rent a nice car/big bike.

[BangTaoBoy]

The lack of affordable transport on Phuket is really having a damaging effect on tourism on the island.

Is it? Any sources for that?

That was going to be my first question. Although I already know the answer.

[BangTaoBoy]

Rich people dont usualy take tuktuks, they have their own drivers or they rent a nice car/big bike.

By far the biggest percentage of tourists, do not rent bikes or cars. They go on holiday to relax, and to be able to stop doing every day things for themselves like driving and cooking etc.

As for the people having their own drivers, very very, small percent, i would say.

[notbritish]

IF you go to latin america, you might see only 10% of people using taxis, rest are having fun on motorbikes and ATV's.

Other tourists are simply doing leisure wrong.

[LivinginKata]

By far the biggest percentage of tourists, do not rent bikes or cars. They go on holiday to relax, and to be able to stop doing every day things for themselves like driving and cooking etc.

I would say that quite a number of visitors DO rent bikes, and I notice that many more tourists are renting cars. I have no idea about percentage renting, just seems a lot to me.

[BangTaoBoy]

By far the biggest percentage of tourists, do not rent bikes or cars. They go on holiday to relax, and to be able to stop doing every day things for themselves like driving and cooking etc.

I would say that quite a number of visitors DO rent bikes, and I notice that many more tourists are renting cars. I have no idea about percentage renting, just seems a lot to me.

You are right, there certainly are a lot of people renting bikes, you see them every where you go, but it's the percentage of the total, that's the important figure. Obviously, I don't know the figures any more than you do, but I would guess, that for every 100 tourists, about 5 are renting bikes (That's about 5%) And the people renting cars and hiring drivers would total less than 5 put together. As I said, I'm basing that on nothing in particular, just my gut feeling.

[notbritish]

By far the biggest percentage of tourists, do not rent bikes or cars. They go on holiday to relax, and to be able to stop doing every day things for themselves like driving and cooking etc.

I would say that quite a number of visitors DO rent bikes, and I notice that many more tourists are renting cars. I have no idea about percentage renting, just seems a lot to me.

You are right, there certainly are a lot of people renting bikes, you see them every where you go, but it's the percentage of the total, that's the important figure. Obviously, I don't know the figures any more than you do, but I would guess, that for every 100 tourists, about 5 are renting bikes (That's about 5%) And the people renting cars and hiring drivers would total less than 5 put together. As I said, I'm basing that on nothing in particular, just my gut feeling.

On the east coast.. from what i see in guesthouses and smaller hotels is that almost 100% of the guests have rented cars or motorbikes except the hippies who just spend their days walking with a plastic bag on a stick huckleberry fin style.

[BangTaoBoy]

On the east coast.. from what i see in guesthouses and smaller hotels is that almost 100% of the guests have rented cars or motorbikes except the hippies who just spend their days walking with a plastic bag on a stick huckleberry fin style.

And what percentage of tourists stay on the East coast?