Can I Retire In Pattaya

[Naam]

With hind sight we'd all be rich

you are not rich?

[Suradit]

... and then end up in a bitter old man.

Seems a bit drastic and very uncomfortable.

[Suradit]

also,

if he put 200k into philip morris and kraft he would get a dividend of roughly 3k U.S. per month

If those 2 go out of bizness we are in more trouble than money can solve

$3000 per month x 12 months = $36,000 per year. $36,000/$200,000 implies 18% annual return, which would indeed put them out of business pretty quickly.

$200,000 paying maybe 6% invested in something reasonably safe and more diversified would provide $12,000 per year.

People who invested in some "safe" businesses like Citibank or General Motors and depended on their dividends took a major hit. Both are still in business, but income from them was a disaster.

[thaiman]

Go for it. The worst that can happen is if you run out of money, you can go home and get a job.

Don't wait until you are an old man.

I agree with this post. So many plan for their retirement only to not even live that long. You could die tomorrow. Go for it. Live now. Get the best out of pattaya while you're still young. Being old and relying on viagra isn't everybodies dream life.

[SGD]

Whatever size your "pot of gold" is it needs to grow faster than inflation and you'll be lucky to be able to draw down 3% per annum after that. If you are not working and want a good lifestyle then 100k a month goes nowhere. You can live on that and less after some time on the ground but for the first couple of years you'll likely spend way more. Even so, 100k a month or $3000 plus would need $36k a year so lets be safe and say $50k a year so 50k/3% = $1.7m.

[Jingthing]

Whatever size your "pot of gold" is it needs to grow faster than inflation and you'll be lucky to be able to draw down 3% per annum after that. If you are not working and want a good lifestyle then 100k a month goes nowhere. You can live on that and less after some time on the ground but for the first couple of years you'll likely spend way more. Even so, 100k a month or $3000 plus would need $36k a year so lets be safe and say $50k a year so 50k/3% = $1.7m.

What percentage of people do you reckon have saved a liquid 1.7 million USD to retire with? A very small percentage to be sure. So I guess almost nobody can ever afford to retire. That's ridiculous! Remember the OP has an expected pension INCOME stream over time and also an expected inheritance. Everyone's case is different of course, and BTW, it's not that hard to live a comfortable relaxed retired life in Pattaya for under 20K USD per annum and that's for people who are renting, quite a bit less if you own a home here.

[jdinasia]

Whatever size your "pot of gold" is it needs to grow faster than inflation and you'll be lucky to be able to draw down 3% per annum after that. If you are not working and want a good lifestyle then 100k a month goes nowhere. You can live on that and less after some time on the ground but for the first couple of years you'll likely spend way more. Even so, 100k a month or $3000 plus would need $36k a year so lets be safe and say $50k a year so 50k/3% = $1.7m.

What percentage of people do you reckon have saved a liquid 1.7 million USD to retire with? A very small percentage to be sure. So I guess almost nobody can ever afford to retire. That's ridiculous! Remember the OP has an expected pension INCOME stream over time and also an expected inheritance. Everyone's case is different of course, and BTW, it's not that hard to live a comfortable relaxed retired life in Pattaya for under 20K USD per annum and that's for people who are renting, quite a bit less if you own a home here.

In the above example the 1.7M doesn't have to be liquid, it just has to pay 3%.

If you want a decent life that would meet the length required for MY piece of string, 800k-1M USD would do AFTER you owned a car and a residence here in Thailand. Your piece of string may be significantly shorter. Personally, under 60k THB a month, while doable, does create significant issues and would particularly with the OP wanting 2 return trips to the USA per annum (and the related expenses.)

So, again using the examples above, a person moves here and buys a condo (condo cost counted separately), but also then fits out the condo to western standards, gears up with computers, TV's, decent furniture, a car, a motorcycle etc --- add in 30- 50k USD the first year. After a few years, perhaps the expenses will drop, depending on the OP's length of string but then again perhaps it won't.

[janverbeem]

Whatever size your "pot of gold" is it needs to grow faster than inflation and you'll be lucky to be able to draw down 3% per annum after that. If you are not working and want a good lifestyle then 100k a month goes nowhere. You can live on that and less after some time on the ground but for the first couple of years you'll likely spend way more. Even so, 100k a month or $3000 plus would need $36k a year so lets be safe and say $50k a year so 50k/3% = $1.7m.

But I don't think the OP still want to have 1,7 million $ in his account when he lays his head isn't it?

[Jingthing]

Well I bought an 80 square meter already finished condo but ending up furnishing it quite wonderfully, well under 10K USD to do that. I'm talking quality stylish furniture, plenty of leather stuff, the works. Maybe I'm a good shopper. Yes it would be a lot more to finish a shell but I consider that the cost of the condo, not many expats would want to live in a shell.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Whatever size your "pot of gold" is it needs to grow faster than inflation and you'll be lucky to be able to draw down 3% per annum after that. If you are not working and want a good lifestyle then 100k a month goes nowhere. You can live on that and less after some time on the ground but for the first couple of years you'll likely spend way more. Even so, 100k a month or $3000 plus would need $36k a year so lets be safe and say $50k a year so 50k/3% = $1.7m.

But I don't think the OP still want to have 1,7 million $ in his account when he lays his head isn't it?

Yeah people forget about factoring in life expectancy. Most people don't need to DIE rich. The tricky part of course is to run out life BEFORE you run out of money.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[NALAK]

im in a similar situation retired at same age you are, same amount of money, then the interest rates and growth on stock market were enough, now i am using the lump sum which is not good, still i have no dependants and dont want to leave all that cash to folks up north so just have to live with it. 54 now, had to cut back a lot on nightlife and fun but it beats being back in the Uk. hopefully it will stretch out until i reach 65 and get a pension to subsidise it but were not peter pan and will get old and die so go for it.

its not a case of when reach 65 but if!

Edited April 18, 2011 by NALAK

[Patrick66]

Wow.. Lots of advise to consider. Yes, I work for the US Government in Afghanistan training the Afghan Army. Risky job and getting tired of it. The up side is I get 21 days of leave every 90 days. So, in the short run my plan is to NOT buy a condo at this point, continue working here until July 2012, return to the US and take a deferred retirement and turn my 401k into an IRA. By July 2012 I will have just over 500k in savings and, as long as the S&P 500 does not crash, over 100k in my 401k. With my savings I plan to join the family realestate/development business. The "crash" has not hit Oklahoma very hard and now is a good time to buy foreclosed homes, flip, and make a descent living that way. My home town is the fastest growing community, in the fastest growing county, in the state. Inheritance is property currently valued at 4 million US, but, hopefully not for many more years, will be split 5 ways.

With luck, I will make enough money to spend the winter months, Nov-March, renting a nice little place in Pattaya. I am sure 5 months a year in Thailand will suffice.... Just sad it has to be high season, but off season in Thailand is high season for property sales back home.... I just can't risk it more than another year here, you just never know, but then again anything can happen anywhere. Anyway, arent we all dying in December 2012??; -) To all those critical of the US, things will get better financially, but will never be like they were, and that may be for the better. But, what we have allowed the DHS to become is turning the country into a Big Brother society, and I just don't want to retire in such an environment..... Don't let them kid you, Bin Laden was killed in Tora Bora in December 2001.. A topic for another fourm...

Thanks for all those who took time to post their comments!!!!!

Patrick

[jombom]

This part was great ''The "crash" has not hit Oklahoma very hard and now is a good time to buy foreclosed homes''

Sooooo, the foreclosed homes came from where ??

Sounds like you need to chill out, after Afkhanistan. Before you start buying houses in Oklahomastan.

[kdc1899]

Training the afgan army

Sounds like 20 years of job security if you want it.

Thanks for your service.

[lung]

Go for it. The worst that can happen is if you run out of money, you can go home and get a job.

Don't wait until you are an old man.

yipp...

:jap:

[globalmenace]

For starters, if you can't afford a car, adequate insurance, a comfortable house and all the other things you had back home, go back to the land of the free and the home of the brave and hitchhike. You give the rest of us a bad name.

And get rid of your computer. Please?

Why would you want your retired life in a foreign country to be exactly like your previous life in the west? I find your post obnoxious and also extremely presumptuous.

I find all your observations to be spot on. For someone who's world is limited from what they see from the back of a baht bus..

Does anyone here want to live like Jingthing? Crimony...

And no one read all of your 24,000 posts either. Get rid of that computer and spare the rest of us your savvy about this area.

[globalmenace]

:jap:

Read my posts on this thread. I didn't advise he retire early at all. I just added some comments about some issues to think about IF he does so.

WOW!!!!! 24.024 in approx 5 1/2 years that's around 12 postings per day ......how do you find the time to be a food critic and a international financial adviser...and a old sage all rolled into one ? :jap:

(Posted tongue in check not ment to offend )

Go ahead and offend him. He needs to get rid of his computer.

[Jingthing]

I guess I'm a target for the 'little people'. Chuckle. Kind of like Duke's of Chiang Mai?

[morphic]

I guess I'm a target for the 'little people'. Chuckle. Kind of like Duke's of Chiang Mai?

OK, so USD400K isn't enough for a man in his mid 40's, assuming he never works again, isn't a Warren Buffet in bis investment abilities and that we face continuous inflation, currency and investment risks.

So if USD400K isn't enough, what is?

Lets not discuss, just post a number that you think is enough to lead a comfortable, healthy and fun existence and assume the person will make some kind of reasonably wise investment choices....

I'll start off...........

USD 1.5 million

[Jingthing]

The actual number is very individual. Depends on age of retirement, life expectancy, health issues, desire for a Thai spouse, amount and age start of future expected pension, amount of expected inheritance, "lifestyle" expectations (need a car or not for example), etc. So impossible to say without lots of individual details.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Jingthing

[Naam]

The actual number is very individual

nail, head, hammer!

besides... capital does not mean much. one does not live by using the capital itself but by the proceeds it generates. prevailing interest on 5 million cash in USD, EUR, JPY, CHF and SGD (to mention a few) provide for a rather modest lifestyle. an actively managed capital of 1 million (of the afore-mentioned currencies) may provide the basis for a quite comfortable lifestyle.

nota bene: individual mileages vary as far as "moderate" and "comfortable" lifestyles are concerned.

[morphic]

The actual number is very individual

nail, head, hammer!

besides... capital does not mean much. one does not live by using the capital itself but by the proceeds it generates. prevailing interest on 5 million cash in USD, EUR, JPY, CHF and SGD (to mention a few) provide for a rather modest lifestyle. an actively managed capital of 1 million (of the afore-mentioned currencies) may provide the basis for a quite comfortable lifestyle.

nota bene: individual mileages vary as far as "moderate" and "comfortable" lifestyles are concerned.

Yawn, yawn, yawn....yes, I know each person's number is going to be individual...the point is to just obtain a distribution of individual estimates (without discussion please) and see what it ends up looking like....

But I guess this level of abstraction is to hard for posters on this forum to grasp...

[Naam]

people yawn when they read questions "how long is a piece of string?" (like yours). that's what you don't grasp.

[morphic]

people yawn when they read questions "how long is a piece of string?" (like yours). that's what you don't grasp.

Naam, I get the feeling you are a small fish in an extremely small pond. Do you know what I mean by that?

We know different people will have different perceptions of what it means to be comfortable etc and will have a different understanding of what returns to reasonably expect on their capital and also of what kinds of risks they face of their capital being eroded by the way the world changes. Yes, Naam (yawn yawn yawn) we know that, we know everyone will have a different number, there is no unique answer.

That is exactly why I would like to know what a number of people think the "number" is, id like to know what the range is, what the distribution looks like. As I said, I think the number that is enough is USD 1.5 million. Some people will feel that is too low, some will feel that is far than enough. So, don't discuss, just post a personal estimate. The end result of a number of posts will be telling, if we ever get there.

[Jingthing]

OK, if it's a person age 45 with no expectation of any pension or inheritance I think US one million (largely invested) would be enough to live a comfortable enough life in Thailand or similar destinations. But that's not the OP's situation. He could do with less.

[morphic]

OK, if it's a person age 45 with no expectation of any pension or inheritance I think US one million (largely invested) would be enough to live a comfortable enough life in Thailand or similar destinations. But that's not the OP's situation. He could do with less.

Thanks. And yes, I'm assuming the person is in their mid 40's, as per the OP.

[Jingthing]

My estimation doesn't presume the person will still have that million at age 75. Probably a lot less. Then there could be a problem making it to 85. This kind of thing is always a gamble of sorts. Personally, I don't think the financial goal should be preserving ALL of the capital you retire with. People who care about leaving a big legacy might think differently, but most mortals can spend money posthumously.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Jingthing

[FarangBuddha]

people yawn when they read questions "how long is a piece of string?" (like yours). that's what you don't grasp.

Naam, I get the feeling you are a small fish in an extremely small pond. Do you know what I mean by that?

We know different people will have different perceptions of what it means to be comfortable etc and will have a different understanding of what returns to reasonably expect on their capital and also of what kinds of risks they face of their capital being eroded by the way the world changes. Yes, Naam (yawn yawn yawn) we know that, we know everyone will have a different number, there is no unique answer.

That is exactly why I would like to know what a number of people think the "number" is, id like to know what the range is, what the distribution looks like. As I said, I think the number that is enough is USD 1.5 million. Some people will feel that is too low, some will feel that is far than enough. So, don't discuss, just post a personal estimate. The end result of a number of posts will be telling, if we ever get there.

If you have to think about it or have to ask if $ XXXXXX.XX is enough...then it's not enough.

[Jingthing]

Not everyone is rich or doesn't have to ask the prices of things. Most people actually. Back to the real world. The last time I checked most retirees in the world aren't multiple dollar millionaires.

Next ...

[kdc1899]

I can live on $3,000 U.S. dollars per month here.

That's about 100,000 baht per month at todays rates.

About 3,300 baht per day.

With one million U.S. dollars in hand it would take me 30 years to finish that money.

30 really good years

or

20 amazing years

or

10 off the wall

I'll die now and never regret a minute

type of years