Between A Rock And A Hard Place!

[GuestHouse]

Let me get this right.

You are being refused a work permit because your qualifications are fake.

erm.... errh.... What exactly is your problem with that?

I'm still struggling to understand what the problem is.

[DavieA]

Let me get this right.

You are being refused a work permit because your qualifications are fake.

erm.... errh.... What exactly is your problem with that?

I'm still struggling to understand what the problem is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think were starting to get off track. Just to simplify my original post. My problem isn't losing my job (plenty of them), or being apart from my girlfriend.

My question to all in the know is: If I now have a black mark on my name for false docs in Phuket province, is it likely that if I relocate to a new province (new school)and apply for a WP there, will it be picked up? Are there connections between offices nationally?

The consequenses of being detected no matter where I go, means I can't work in Thailand (legally) while studying for my degree. To do my degree (BA of Further education) I must be employed in at least a part time capacity within the teaching or training industry.

My first choice of course is to stay in Thailand and teach, my GF is here, and I like the place. I could easily go home to OZ, but that's not what I want to do for now.

As I stated in the original post, lets keep away from the boring and never ending debate about wether or not a degree holder is more qualified than a non degree holder. Been done too many times before and it's not what I am asking.

[GuestHouse]

I don't recall mentioning anything regarding the merits of degree/non degree.

I'm questioning the whole idea of 'Fake' qualifications.

It brings into question your fitness to teach, regardless of ability.

[pedro01]

I don't recall mentioning anything regarding the merits of degree/non degree.

I'm questioning the whole idea of 'Fake' qualifications.

It brings into question your fitness to teach, regardless of ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He'll be instilling the pupils with a twisted sense of ethics for sure.

right = dodging proper education, fraudulently forging education documents but not getting caught

wrong = as above but 'getting caught'

DavieA - you can't seriously expect anyone who's a parent to support your request can you ?

You are asking us to tell you if you'll get away with further fraud and at the same time telling us we shouldn't be getting into the 'rights' & 'wrongs' of the issue ?

That's like telling us you are going to rape a goat & even if we don't agree - which h*le would be best...

I don't know about you but MY internet doesn't work like that - you ask a question - you are going to get answers.

Go back to Oz, get qualified & come back. You could end up on the immigration blacklist if you do it any other way.

[chownah]

I don't recall mentioning anything regarding the merits of degree/non degree.

I'm questioning the whole idea of 'Fake' qualifications.

It brings into question your fitness to teach, regardless of ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He'll be instilling the pupils with a twisted sense of ethics for sure.

right = dodging proper education, fraudulently forging education documents but not getting caught

wrong = as above but 'getting caught'

DavieA - you can't seriously expect anyone who's a parent to support your request can you ?

You are asking us to tell you if you'll get away with further fraud and at the same time telling us we shouldn't be getting into the 'rights' & 'wrongs' of the issue ?

That's like telling us you are going to rape a goat & even if we don't agree - which h*le would be best...

I don't know about you but MY internet doesn't work like that - you ask a question - you are going to get answers.

Go back to Oz, get qualified & come back. You could end up on the immigration blacklist if you do it any other way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have any verifiable evidence that such a black list exists? This is the second time I've asked this....no responses the first time...why would they have a black list?...He's done nothing illegal...he submitted a credential and they didn't consider it adequate....there is nothing here to make you think that they would take any steps against him....except of course a guilty conscience.....

[GuestHouse]

It is quite obvious that the point Pedro and I are making went right over your head.

[Bentley 7]

You've probaly been given the boot because your greedy thai employer has found a backpacker who will work for less money.

When education becomes a commercial enterprise -quality quickly goes out the door in favour of profits.

[p_brownstone]

I get rather irritated at the constant stream of Posters here - like the OP in this thread - and their sad plaints that because they love to teach, are SO good at it but have no Degree, they are justified, indeed obliged, to work illegally in Thailand.

There are undoubtedly many Countries in the world which do not require that Teachers there must have a Degree - if your only desire is to teach, find one of those Countries and go there! Of course the living conditions etc. may not be on a par with Thailand but hey, never mind - you just desperately want to teach, so that's OK, right?

You and others may not agree with it but the law in Thailand requires that you have a Degree - obey the law, change the law, or leave.

To all the Posters who continually attempt to justify working illegally or using fake documents I ask this: If an illegal immigrant to your own Country decided that a particular Law was unrealistic, or for some reason should not apply to him - would you support his decision to ignore the Law, even offer advice to him on how to continue doing so?

Patrick

Edited September 30, 2005 by p_brownstone

[britmaveric]

I don't recall mentioning anything regarding the merits of degree/non degree.

I'm questioning the whole idea of 'Fake' qualifications.

It brings into question your fitness to teach, regardless of ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He'll be instilling the pupils with a twisted sense of ethics for sure.

right = dodging proper education, fraudulently forging education documents but not getting caught

wrong = as above but 'getting caught'

DavieA - you can't seriously expect anyone who's a parent to support your request can you ?

You are asking us to tell you if you'll get away with further fraud and at the same time telling us we shouldn't be getting into the 'rights' & 'wrongs' of the issue ?

That's like telling us you are going to rape a goat & even if we don't agree - which h*le would be best...

I don't know about you but MY internet doesn't work like that - you ask a question - you are going to get answers.

Go back to Oz, get qualified & come back. You could end up on the immigration blacklist if you do it any other way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have any verifiable evidence that such a black list exists? This is the second time I've asked this....no responses the first time...why would they have a black list?...He's done nothing illegal...he submitted a credential and they didn't consider it adequate....there is nothing here to make you think that they would take any steps against him....except of course a guilty conscience.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chownah - hmmm having a work permit on false pretenses. Basically voids your work permit. Check with immigration and see how they view this particular scenario.

[pedro01]

I don't recall mentioning anything regarding the merits of degree/non degree.

I'm questioning the whole idea of 'Fake' qualifications.

It brings into question your fitness to teach, regardless of ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He'll be instilling the pupils with a twisted sense of ethics for sure.

right = dodging proper education, fraudulently forging education documents but not getting caught

wrong = as above but 'getting caught'

DavieA - you can't seriously expect anyone who's a parent to support your request can you ?

You are asking us to tell you if you'll get away with further fraud and at the same time telling us we shouldn't be getting into the 'rights' & 'wrongs' of the issue ?

That's like telling us you are going to rape a goat & even if we don't agree - which h*le would be best...

I don't know about you but MY internet doesn't work like that - you ask a question - you are going to get answers.

Go back to Oz, get qualified & come back. You could end up on the immigration blacklist if you do it any other way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have any verifiable evidence that such a black list exists? This is the second time I've asked this....no responses the first time...why would they have a black list?...He's done nothing illegal...he submitted a credential and they didn't consider it adequate....there is nothing here to make you think that they would take any steps against him....except of course a guilty conscience.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chownah - hmmm having a work permit on false pretenses. Basically voids your work permit. Check with immigration and see how they view this particular scenario.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. I think the OP was referring to some blacklist maintained by the Ministry of Education. I couldn't say if this exists or not.

I can say with 100% certainty that the immigration blacklist does exist & that there are very few ways of getting off the list. The King can help.

Once on the immigration blacklist, you can NEVER enter the country again.

[DavieA]

There are undoubtedly many Countries in the world which do not require that Teachers there must have a Degree - if your only desire is to teach, find one of those Countries and go there! Of course the living conditions etc. may not be on a par with Thailand but hey, never mind  - you just desperately want to teach, so that's OK, right?

You and others may not agree with it but the law in Thailand requires that you have a Degree - obey the law, change the law, or leave.

To all the Posters who continually attempt to justify working illegally or using fake documents I ask this: If an illegal immigrant to your own Country decided that a particular Law was unrealistic, or for some reason should not apply to him - would you support his decision to ignore the Law, even offer advice to him on how to continue doing so?

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To reply to a few points you made Pat.

I have been reading posts here and on ajarn that having a degree IS NOT a law requirement to teach "ESL" (not physics and other specialty subjects). There are many jobs on the boards that say "TEFL required, degree valued, paid according to education and experience"

Can anybody clarify this for me for sure, with facts?

IMHO having a TEFL and nearly 2 years experience is worth about 30,000 a month. A degree holder teaching a specialty subject, much more for sure. A degree holder teaching ESL for 30,000 a month is getting ripped off!

There are a lot of laws in Thailand, very few of which are adheared to, or simply pushed aside for small fee or rank in status, or a bit of corription chucked in. Quite frankly I don't care about the law in Thailand as it's crock of sh@t! Next time the cops pull you over for a traffic fine, are you going to refuse to give them that 100 baht to forget about it. Or are you going to say "Oh no sorry officer, I've done wrong. I should be taken to the police station and obey the law."

To your final comment. Depends on what occupation the person intended to do. But if it's something as simple and harmless as teaching a language to 12 year old kids, and getting paid F-ALL for doing it, I say do it if you can. So long as no malicious damage is being done.

Edited September 30, 2005 by DavieA

[chownah]

I don't recall mentioning anything regarding the merits of degree/non degree.

I'm questioning the whole idea of 'Fake' qualifications.

It brings into question your fitness to teach, regardless of ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He'll be instilling the pupils with a twisted sense of ethics for sure.

right = dodging proper education, fraudulently forging education documents but not getting caught

wrong = as above but 'getting caught'

DavieA - you can't seriously expect anyone who's a parent to support your request can you ?

You are asking us to tell you if you'll get away with further fraud and at the same time telling us we shouldn't be getting into the 'rights' & 'wrongs' of the issue ?

That's like telling us you are going to rape a goat & even if we don't agree - which h*le would be best...

I don't know about you but MY internet doesn't work like that - you ask a question - you are going to get answers.

Go back to Oz, get qualified & come back. You could end up on the immigration blacklist if you do it any other way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have any verifiable evidence that such a black list exists? This is the second time I've asked this....no responses the first time...why would they have a black list?...He's done nothing illegal...he submitted a credential and they didn't consider it adequate....there is nothing here to make you think that they would take any steps against him....except of course a guilty conscience.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chownah - hmmm having a work permit on false pretenses. Basically voids your work permit. Check with immigration and see how they view this particular scenario.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. I think the OP was referring to some blacklist maintained by the Ministry of Education. I couldn't say if this exists or not.

I can say with 100% certainty that the immigration blacklist does exist & that there are very few ways of getting off the list. The King can help.

Once on the immigration blacklist, you can NEVER enter the country again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pedro01, This blacklist is for serious offenders and I believe that if he were going to be put on this blacklist they would have deported him or denied him re-entry already.....but I don't really know and I'm only speculating.

Britmaveric, You might be right about this but I don't know. He made an applicatoin and submitted a certificate....the certificate was deemed to not satisfy the requirement...it might be decided that the certificate was in some way legitimate but not pertinent in which case there would be no reason for them to take special note of him....or....it might be decided that the certificate was a concerted attempt to misrepresent his qualifications (the truth) and in this case there would be a reason for them to pursue him. I don't know which is the case. Those people thinking he is a bad person for doing this will probably think that he has been blacklisted (wishful thinking) but it looks different from the Thai view which MAY be that 'there are alot of foreigners in his situation and they are welcome in the country (if not they would not be allowed to continure) because they keep the cost of education down so why should we go to a lot of effort to bother these people since we do in fact want them here anyway.' I don't actually know if he's been blacklisted or not or even if they keep a blacklist for this type of activity or if he gets put on the regular blacklist mentioned above (although I doubt it for the reasons stated above).

Chownah

[pedro01]

I don't recall mentioning anything regarding the merits of degree/non degree.

I'm questioning the whole idea of 'Fake' qualifications.

It brings into question your fitness to teach, regardless of ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He'll be instilling the pupils with a twisted sense of ethics for sure.

right = dodging proper education, fraudulently forging education documents but not getting caught

wrong = as above but 'getting caught'

DavieA - you can't seriously expect anyone who's a parent to support your request can you ?

You are asking us to tell you if you'll get away with further fraud and at the same time telling us we shouldn't be getting into the 'rights' & 'wrongs' of the issue ?

That's like telling us you are going to rape a goat & even if we don't agree - which h*le would be best...

I don't know about you but MY internet doesn't work like that - you ask a question - you are going to get answers.

Go back to Oz, get qualified & come back. You could end up on the immigration blacklist if you do it any other way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have any verifiable evidence that such a black list exists? This is the second time I've asked this....no responses the first time...why would they have a black list?...He's done nothing illegal...he submitted a credential and they didn't consider it adequate....there is nothing here to make you think that they would take any steps against him....except of course a guilty conscience.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chownah - hmmm having a work permit on false pretenses. Basically voids your work permit. Check with immigration and see how they view this particular scenario.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. I think the OP was referring to some blacklist maintained by the Ministry of Education. I couldn't say if this exists or not.

I can say with 100% certainty that the immigration blacklist does exist & that there are very few ways of getting off the list. The King can help.

Once on the immigration blacklist, you can NEVER enter the country again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pedro01, This blacklist is for serious offenders and I believe that if he were going to be put on this blacklist they would have deported him or denied him re-entry already.....but I don't really know and I'm only speculating.

Britmaveric, You might be right about this but I don't know. He made an applicatoin and submitted a certificate....the certificate was deemed to not satisfy the requirement...it might be decided that the certificate was in some way legitimate but not pertinent in which case there would be no reason for them to take special note of him....or....it might be decided that the certificate was a concerted attempt to misrepresent his qualifications (the truth) and in this case there would be a reason for them to pursue him. I don't know which is the case. Those people thinking he is a bad person for doing this will probably think that he has been blacklisted (wishful thinking) but it looks different from the Thai view which MAY be that 'there are alot of foreigners in his situation and they are welcome in the country (if not they would not be allowed to continure) because they keep the cost of education down so why should we go to a lot of effort to bother these people since we do in fact want them here anyway.' I don't actually know if he's been blacklisted or not or even if they keep a blacklist for this type of activity or if he gets put on the regular blacklist mentioned above (although I doubt it for the reasons stated above).

Chownah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chownah - I was arrested for embezzlement of $4,000 here in Thailand (not guilty of course) - I would have been blacklisted if found guilty. It was just some a**hole trying to put the squeeze on me by getting his police friends to frighten me (It did scarethe sh*t out of me). The prosecutor threw the case out, not that the prosecutor was given any incentive to do so, you understand

At that time, my lawyer was representing a guy who'd been here for 12 years & had a wife & child here. He was caught shoplifting but reckoned it was just a mistake - he'd walked out of the shop absent mindedly (you decide). The value of goods was well under 1,000 Baht.

He got deported & blacklisted, regardless of the fact that he had family here.

I don't think the offence has to be that serious - if it goes to court & you are found guilty of a criminal offence, it gets reported to immigration - then you are probably on the way out. Saying that, I've heard of people bribing the police to NOT tell immigration.

Of course - not all cases get to court. This being Thailand, things can be sorted out without all that trouble.

I'd say that it's 50-50 whether fraud would get you thrown out - it'd have to go through the courts first. I'd think it would. Best to check the statute of limitations on fraud. For embezzlement - it's 90 days !

Sometimes people get blacklisted without court - the boiler room boys are a good example. Some people also get blacklisted for working without a work permit, although this is not actually an offence (according to my lawyer - who is ex-immigration) that should earn a place on the blacklist.

Best to keep your nose clean.

[DavieA]

Chownah i think youre right. I don't think I have actually been put on a blacklist as such, if one exists. They simply refused to accept my application for a WP, and told me to go away.

The only consequenses to this are that if I were to apply again in the same provincial office in the near future, thay may remember my name and refuse me again.

The main problem for me now is I just have to relocate to a new province and find a new job. Finding the new job won't ever be a problem. It's the relocation that is just a pain in the bum because I'm quite set up and comfortable where I am now.

[bluebear]

.........

Quite frankly I don't care about the law in Thailand as it's crock of sh@t!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think we already know that.

So what laws do you want to follow, just the ones that suit you ?

[Neeranam]

The only consequenses to this are that if I were to apply again in the same provincial office in the near future, thay may remember my name and refuse me again.

I doubt they would, and even if they did they would just refuse again, nothing like deportation, no need to worry about this. This has happened to a guy I know. Many English teachers are doing this, and they(the MOE) don't seem to care. Not much different to everyone in my province riding on the back of motorcycles wiout a helmet. It is against the law, as is not wearing a seatbelt. Everyone does it and it has been accepted as not being the law, even though it is.

Right now I don't have a WP - the woman in the Labour Dept. said forget it, don't worry.

The great thing about living in Thailand is that you can pay your way out of a jam, whther it be a parking fine or more serious. The problem some people have is that they don't know how the system works, they are too set in their Western ways to change, or they don't know any top ranking police or military.

Daviey, you don't need a degree to work as an English teacher. Not sure if your TEFL will count for anything if it isn't a Cambridge RSA or London trinity one.

These TEFL schools in Thailand are a rip-off. New teachers should pay a little more and get an internationally recognised one.

I can give you the name of a school(I'll PM it), that is owned by one of the richest and most influential politicians in Thailand. They accept fake degrees, in fact they print them for many teachers! Again, this school is owned by a leading politician.

Some of the people here sound like they have a big resentment with young English teachers. This is often due to the fact that they lived in their home countries for years in a dull boring job and decided to come to Thailand late in life, wishing they had come years before. Many start their own businesses not realising the hassles and corruption that goes on in this country, and their egos get bruised when someone asks if they are an English teacher. They are jealous of the hassle free life that English teachers get. Maybe they are realising that all their hard work was a waste of time. Life in Thailand is far more about other things than how much money you have saved or what type of pick-up you drive.

[p_brownstone]

I can  give you the name of a school(I'll PM it), that is owned by one of the richest and most influential politicians in Thailand. They accept fake degrees, in fact they print them for many teachers! Again, this school is owned by a leading politician.

So, you believe it is OK, even admirable, to support a corrupt Thai politician who is deliberately undermining the already poor teaching standards in Thailand and, at the same time, is stealing from parents who send their children to his school in the hope that they will receive the education they pay their hard earned money for?

Can there be any better proof that the majority of people who wash up on the shores of Thailand and become "English Teachers" have little or no interest in their students' development, only their own desperation to live in Thailand at any cost to whatever pathetic moral standards they may still retain.

Far from being proud of your "contacts" you should hang your head in shame.

Patrick

[DavieA]

.........

Quite frankly I don't care about the law in Thailand as it's crock of sh@t!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think we already know that.

So what laws do you want to follow, just the ones that suit you ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes!

That's what Thais do, on top of making up their own laws as they please. So as the old saying goes....."When in Rome......."

[DavieA]

The only consequenses to this are that if I were to apply again in the same provincial office in the near future, thay may remember my name and refuse me again.

I doubt they would, and even if they did they would just refuse again, nothing like deportation, no need to worry about this. This has happened to a guy I know. Many English teachers are doing this, and they(the MOE) don't seem to care. Not much different to everyone in my province riding on the back of motorcycles wiout a helmet. It is against the law, as is not wearing a seatbelt. Everyone does it and it has been accepted as not being the law, even though it is.

Right now I don't have a WP - the woman in the Labour Dept. said forget it, don't worry.

The great thing about living in Thailand is that you can pay your way out of a jam, whther it be a parking fine or more serious. The problem some people have is that they don't know how the system works, they are too set in their Western ways to change, or they don't know any top ranking police or military.

Daviey, you don't need a degree to work as an English teacher. Not sure if your TEFL will count for anything if it isn't a Cambridge RSA or London trinity one.

These TEFL schools in Thailand are a rip-off. New teachers should pay a little more and get an internationally recognised one.

I can give you the name of a school(I'll PM it), that is owned by one of the richest and most influential politicians in Thailand. They accept fake degrees, in fact they print them for many teachers! Again, this school is owned by a leading politician.

Some of the people here sound like they have a big resentment with young English teachers. This is often due to the fact that they lived in their home countries for years in a dull boring job and decided to come to Thailand late in life, wishing they had come years before. Many start their own businesses not realising the hassles and corruption that goes on in this country, and their egos get bruised when someone asks if they are an English teacher. They are jealous of the hassle free life that English teachers get. Maybe they are realising that all their hard work was a waste of time. Life in Thailand is far more about other things than how much money you have saved or what type of pick-up you drive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree more buddy! I'll wait for your PM. Thanks again Neer

Edited September 30, 2005 by DavieA

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(bluebear @ 2005-09-30 09:45:03)

QUOTE(DavieA @ 2005-09-30 09:01:42)

.........

Quite frankly I don't care about the law in Thailand as it's crock of sh@t!

*

I think we already know that.

So what laws do you want to follow, just the ones that suit you ?

*

Yes!

That's what Thais do, on top of making up their own laws as they please. So as the old saying goes....."When in Rome......."

Exactly Davie

[Mighty Mouse]

Perhaps one of you teachers who do possess a work permit can describe how the work permit is issued.

Is it generated through a computer or is it issued from a book of permits?

If it is computer generated, wouldn't there be a record kept in some data base that records all of the applicants details?

If so, wouldn't that same data base contain the details of the non successful applicants and the reason why their application was not successful?

Again, if so, that data base would be referred to each and every time another application was made.

Therefore, if DavieA re-applies with more fake documents and the data base identifies him as trying the same stunt previously, what would the Thai official do next?

Does he then place DavieA's name onto a computer 'blacklist,' does he suggest you make a donation to the work permit office's annual ball, or does he pick up the phone and call the boys in brown, or worse still, Thai Immigration?

Is all this really worth the risk? Is it laziness, stubborness, pig headedness or just plain old dishonesty that drives you to take the easy way.

Not a great virtue for a teacher to possess.

[Neeranam]

Yes!

That's what Thais do, on top of making up their own laws as they please. So as the old saying goes....."When in Rome......."

That's what my signature translates as.

I must warn you Davey that being a teacher in Thailand is not usually a long-term thing. All teachers, bar a couple I know lasted a max of 10 years.

I got fed up and quit after 7 years, as my heart was not really in it, and the money was relatively low compared to other things.

You may have a family soon. You can't travel back to your home country every year with them when you earn 30,000 a month. When I was teaching I never made it home. My tickets alone for my coming trip, which I paid today came to 140,000 baht!

Teaching is good for a few years for most people. The old guys who are still running around Bangkok are generally miserable old alkies. I'm glad I got out of that!

[pedro01]

I can  give you the name of a school(I'll PM it), that is owned by one of the richest and most influential politicians in Thailand. They accept fake degrees, in fact they print them for many teachers! Again, this school is owned by a leading politician.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you believe it is OK, even admirable, to support a corrupt Thai politician who is deliberately undermining the already poor teaching standards in Thailand and, at the same time, is stealing from parents who send their children to his school in the hope that they will receive the education they pay their hard earned money for?

Can there be any better proof that the majority of people who wash up on the shores of Thailand and become "English Teachers" have little or no interest in their students' development, only their own desperation to live in Thailand at any cost to whatever pathetic moral standards they may still retain.

Far from being proud of your "contacts" you should hang your head in shame.

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Teachers who don't believe in education (for themselves, anyway).

Don't you see the irony ?

Not for my kids, please.

You should indeed be ashamed.

[GuestHouse]

The more this guy tells us the more I'm of the opinion he's not fit to be a teacher

QUOTE(bluebear @ 2005-09-30 09:45:03)

QUOTE(DavieA @ 2005-09-30 09:01:42)

.........

Quite frankly I don't care about the law in Thailand as it's crock of sh@t!

I think we already know that.

So what laws do you want to follow, just the ones that suit you ?

Yes!

That's what Thais do, on top of making up their own laws as they please. So as the old saying goes....."When in Rome......."

If the OP had been teaching my children and I found out about this nonsense, I'd personally file a complaint with what ever authority I needed to in order to get rid of him.

On a wider point, the legitimate foreign teachers, who are qualified to do their job and who are obeying the law face frequent problems with Thai authorities, work permit checks, qualifications checks etc, not because the Thai authorities have nothing better to do but because of idiots like the OP.

And it doesn't stop there, the OP's behaviour reflects negatively on every single foreigner living in Thailand.

There are numerous references to Backpackers in this thread... It is not backpackers that are the problem.. its the OP and people like the OP.

[chownah]

Wanted: Teacher who has never broken a law and will never break a law in the future. Must believe in all the things I believe in and have the same prejudices as myself.

[Rumpole]

I have lived and worked in ten countries on three continents. ONLY in Thailand would you see a "discussion" such as the one in this thread. Unbelievable.

[DavieA]

I must warn you Davey that being a teacher in Thailand is not usually a long-term thing.  All  teachers, bar a couple I know lasted a max of 10 years.

I got fed up and quit after 7 years, as my heart was not really in it, and the money was relatively low compared to other things.

You may have a family soon. You can't travel back to your home country every year with them when you earn 30,000 a month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed Neers. My plan is to stay in Thailand while I'm getting my real degree in education externally from OZ (should be starting it next month). It will take me 3 years. By then I will have 5 years of teaching experience up my sleeve and a REAL degree. Over the next three years my Thai GF and I will then also have a substancial data base of evidence of our relationship (if not married by that time), then I will skip happily back to the wide old land of OZ with my wondeful GF/wife and work as a teacher. That's the plan anyway.

I certainly wouldn't be working in Thailand with a REAL degree for 30-50,000 baht a month. I like Thailand, but not that much to spend my life here.

Wanted: Teacher who has never broken a law and will never break a law in the future.  Must believe in all the things I believe in and have the same prejudices as myself.

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LOL mark mark!!

I have lived and worked in ten countries on three continents. ONLY in Thailand would you see a "discussion" such as the one in this thread. Unbelievable.

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That's the beauty of Thailand dude. And that's the reason that for me to actually listen to some posters here telling me to consider the lawless laws of Thailand is a joke.

Edited September 30, 2005 by DavieA

[pedro01]

I must warn you Davey that being a teacher in Thailand is not usually a long-term thing.  All  teachers, bar a couple I know lasted a max of 10 years.

I got fed up and quit after 7 years, as my heart was not really in it, and the money was relatively low compared to other things.

You may have a family soon. You can't travel back to your home country every year with them when you earn 30,000 a month.

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Agreed Neers. My plan is to stay in Thailand while I'm getting my real degree in education externally from OZ (should be starting it next month). It will take me 3 years. By then I will have 5 years of teaching experience up my sleeve and a REAL degree. Over the next three years my Thai GF and I will then also have a substancial data base of evidence of our relationship (if not married by that time), then I will skip happily back to the wide old land of OZ with my wondeful GF/wife and work as a teacher. That's the plan anyway.

I certainly wouldn't be working in Thailand with a REAL degree for 30-50,000 baht a month. I like Thailand, but not that much to spend my life here.

Wanted: Teacher who has never broken a law and will never break a law in the future.  Must believe in all the things I believe in and have the same prejudices as myself.

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LOL mark mark!!

I have lived and worked in ten countries on three continents. ONLY in Thailand would you see a "discussion" such as the one in this thread. Unbelievable.

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That's the beauty of Thailand dude. And that's the reason that for me to actually listen to some posters here telling me to consider the lawless laws of Thailand is a joke.

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Sadly - the joke is on the kids you teach - no-one's telling you to obey the law for the law's sake - it's for the childrens sake.

When (if) you study for your education degree - you are going to learn about a whole lot of things that you have been doing wrong in your teaching so far.

Exactly as I would if I'd started my career by intuition instead of education.

Teaching is a fairly involved subject & to think you have learnt it 'on the job' is arrogant. To think you aren't doing damage now is stupid.

As I said before - how on earth can a Teacher claim to that education has no value. You don't make sense.

If Thailand wasn't full of people like you - they'd have to pony up for some real teachers. Supply & demand...

Edited September 30, 2005 by pedro01

[HarryHacker]

... after reading all of these posts, all I can say is that I'm well happy not having any children!

Morally bankrupt is the expression that springs to mind!

[britmaveric]

I think I am qualified to fly a plane - anyone mind if I take the formal training later?