Ryuko Retro Honda C - Is It A Tiger?

[CTO]

Local bike shop in Sawang has the retro Honda C looking bikes, plus a LifAn 200. I dropped by to see if they had the LiFan 250, but I noticed instead of being Tiger Retro Honda C's, they are Ryuko. The lady assured me they are the same bike, but I am a dubious person by nature.

Is it a re-badged Tiger? Is the Tiger Cub a re-badged Ryuko?

[mbox]

simple answer NO it is not a tiger retro , nor a rebadged one. Not made by Tiger Motors.

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simple answer NO it is not a tiger retro , nor a rebadged one. Not made by Tiger Motors.

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Forgot to answer the other part....the Tiger Retro is made from Tiger Motors ... it is not a rebadged Ryuka .

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[LeCharivari]

I've got a Tiger Retro with sidecar so having read elsewhere that the Ryuko's were direct copies of the Retro (rather than copies of the Honda Cub, like the Retro) I was quite interested to see one "in the flesh" recently (in Carrefour).

They are clearly not the same bike, although both are copies of the Honda Cub; although the Ryuko is not a copy of the Tiger Retro it looks as if some parts (such as the rear light) come from the same supplier.

The Ryuko looks more "agricultural" than the Retro, and there are some noticeable differences. The fuel gauge on the Ryuko is under the seat, for example, next to the filler cap (rather unusual), rather than in the conventional place by the speedo; the Ryuko switchgear (indicator, horn, lights, etc) appears to be better quality than the Retro's, and the plastic parts thicker, but the fit is considerably worse.

While I am biased to the Retro, being objective they are both "cheap and cheerful" and similarly priced, so any choice should depend on who can provide the better after sales service and spares. I think I'd be a bit "dubious" about any dealer who told me that Tiger and Ryuko (or Honda and Suzuki) were "the same bike".

[mbox]

You're right i think the ryuka was not copied from the Tiger Retro...maybe ryuka only picked up the idea when the Retro's were around.

I too saw the Ryuka a few months ago .I found the bikes somewhat same but the design and looks are a bit different specially the colorschemes on the Ryuka i did not particular like. The seat maybe more comfy but also not really good looking ,fuel gauge under the seat was also noticed . The horncover in "chrome-color" was nice. The Tiger Retro' will also have these chrome horncover and will come with the windshield & holder . Also there seem to be some nicer sidecovers for the Retro available (even though they are already better looking now in different color tone - another thing that makes a difference on this ryuka).

The price advertised on this shop was 32500 thb (not sure what was included in that price)

Here the pics i made back in January.

happy trails,

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[CTO]

The wife has a few original old bikes, but she's thinking of one of these.

Interesting the "More agricultural" comment, she said to her it looked more like the original honda c and felt more solid.

Price was 28 000 I think.

Interesting they used to sell the Tiger version and have switched to this.

Agree the sales girl was a twit

Given the original Hondo C is a collectors itme both here and China, maybe the Ryuko was first with this? Will do some more research.

THANKS everyone - appreciate it.

[mbox]

The wife has a few original old bikes, but she's thinking of one of these.

Interesting the "More agricultural" comment, she said to her it looked more like the original honda c and felt more solid.

Price was 28 000 I think.

Interesting they used to sell the Tiger version and have switched to this.

Agree the sales girl was a twit

Given the original Hondo C is a collectors itme both here and China, maybe the Ryuko was first with this? Will do some more research.

THANKS everyone - appreciate it.

Actually Tiger Retro was first with the Retro here than Ryuka....probably the reason why tiger introduced the "Retro Sport" and the "Tiger Future" (post some pics below)

ummm, when i look at the blue retro here you won't have to ask me which one i would take (being biased i have a retro myself since 6 month and 5100 troublefree km's on it).

Tiger Retro 110C:

Retro Sport (should be selling for appr 36000thb by may 2011):

Tiger Future (should be appr 34000thb - and selling by May 2011 ):

happy trails,

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[Richard-BKK]

The Ryuka Classic 110 is made by Zongshen Motors, which is a (Chinese) international company which sells motorcycles all over the world. They also make a good amount of Harley-Davidson engine and other parts.

I not think that a motorcycle manufacturer with more than 2,500 employees, and Zongshen Motors has a annual output of 4 million motorcycles and more than 7 million key & important components.

The Ryuka Classic 110 is 100% being produced by Zongshen's Thai factory which passed the certification for ISO9001 (Quality Management System), ISO14001 (Environmental Management System) and OHSAS18001 (Occupational Health and Safety Management System).

Zongshen Motorcycle Racing Team, is the first motorcycle racing team of China that participated in the MotoGP World Championship, and it has also participated in Asian Nations Cup and the international top-level motorcycle competition in the name of China Zongshen Motorcycle Racing Team.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Richard-BKK

[mbox]

I not think that a motorcycle manufacturer with more than 2,500 employees, and Zongshen Motors has a annual output of 4 million motorcycles and more than 7 million key & important components.

Thanks Richard, yep Zongshen it is...but what did you want to tell us in that line i quoted? Seems like something is missing... or am i missing something?

thanks , mbox

[Richard-BKK]

I not think that a motorcycle manufacturer with more than 2,500 employees, and Zongshen Motors has a annual output of 4 million motorcycles and more than 7 million key & important components.

Thanks Richard, yep Zongshen it is...but what did you want to tell us in that line i quoted? Seems like something is missing... or am i missing something?

thanks , mbox

You absolutely right, it should be "I not think that a motorcycle manufacturer with more than 2,500 employees, and Zongshen Motors has a annual output of 4 million motorcycles and more than 7 million key & important components, will copy motor models, but than they also Chinese so who knows...."

Probably a copy/paste mistake...

[CTO]

The Retro sports is a great looking bike. I was sitting on the original Honda version just 3 hours ago! Sadly not mine but belongs a mate of the wifes.

I am curious which bike was made first, not the first to sell in Thailand, but how long both companies have been making them.

The price is great by the way for either of them, Ryuko or Tiger.

I DO like the Tiger sidecar concept, by the way I was told recently sidecars (not salings) are not legal here? I found that hard to believe, anyone know? I met the owner or bloke with the most stock in Tiger when I first came to Thailand, very nice guy, who wanted to know if I could make MP3 player for his bikes.

I was based in Taiwan then doing silly stuff like that.

I wish some of the other 250 road bikes from China where available here.

[mbox]

The Retro sports is a great looking bike. I was sitting on the original Honda version just 3 hours ago! Sadly not mine but belongs a mate of the wifes.

I am curious which bike was made first, not the first to sell in Thailand, but how long both companies have been making them.

The price is great by the way for either of them, Ryuko or Tiger.

I DO like the Tiger sidecar concept, by the way I was told recently sidecars (not salings) are not legal here? I found that hard to believe, anyone know? I met the owner or bloke with the most stock in Tiger when I first came to Thailand, very nice guy, who wanted to know if I could make MP3 player for his bikes.

I was based in Taiwan then doing silly stuff like that.

I wish some of the other 250 road bikes from China where available here.

Tiger Retro with sidecar is legal.(i think it is already mentioned here and in other Forums numerous times)

if you looking at bikes with sidecar later added they are likely illegal.

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[mbox]

here one of them posts that i made earlier in regards Tiger Retro with sidecar: http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4341943

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Edited April 16, 2011 by mbox

[LeCharivari]

....... The price is great by the way for either of them, Ryuko or Tiger. .......

Agreed, prices for both makes are good. The only drawback for both is their lack of a decent dealer network at the moment, which is something that I am sure puts off a lot of people.

[moe666]

The big scooter dealer south of Chiang Mai Gate has 3 loaded up in a pickup ready for delivery some where. I had to take a double look, though they where Tigers at first.

[Richard-BKK]

....... The price is great by the way for either of them, Ryuko or Tiger. .......

Agreed, prices for both makes are good. The only drawback for both is their lack of a decent dealer network at the moment, which is something that I am sure puts off a lot of people.

Zongshen has some decent service centers (http://zongshenthailand.com/service.aspx) strategically throughout the country (maybe not 100% perfect, but they working on it). Some of the Zongshen service centers also seem to sell the motorcycles so they seem to work hard on building a sales network.

[mbox]

In regards of Service Center here are the ones from Tiger Motors: http://tigersachsclub.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=453

I checked back at tiger motors ,if these lists are up-to-date , and it was confirmed.

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[LeCharivari]

Zongshen has some decent service centers ...........

In regards of Service Center here are the ones from Tiger Motors ..........

Obviously nothing to choose between them (or nothing to choose at all, to be rather more realistic).

The Zongshen link is to an exclusively Thai language website which although it has some pictures of impressive looking "Service Centers" does not give any "strategically located" addresses or details of where you can get their recently introduced bikes serviced, as distinct from their motors. "Not 100% perfect" is an almost laughable understatement - except anyone buying one at the moment who encounters any sort of problem is unlikely to be laughing.

The Tiger link is equally impressive with a considerable number of "Service Centers" covering the country, again exclusively in Thai but including addresses and telephone numbers. Unfortunately these are not only not "up-to-date" (try those in Chiang Mai and Pattaya, just for starters) but they are not by any stretch of the imagination "Tiger Service Centers". They are no more than local bike repair shops which Tiger recommends, with limited training in and knowledge of Tiger bikes and even more limited spare parts (if any). As far as I am aware the only decent dealer is in Buri Ram, with even Tiger's showroom in Bangkok having a limited range of bikes available to view.

While Tiger has an internet sales option, most people buying "mail-order" expect two things: (1) good quality control, as there will obviously be no dealer pre-delivery check and service (2) a discount from the regular price, as there is no middle-man. Unfortunately they will get neither: Tiger's QC is infamous (as evidenced by a quick review of the club forum), and due to the delivery charge and no discount it costs marginally more for a "mail-order" bike than for one from a dealer (if you can find one).

"The price is great by the way for either of them, Ryuko or Tiger" but neither is for the average Joe Soap (or Joe Chamlong) who needs the simplicity in sales and service they expect from their local Mittyon - you get what you pay for.

Caveat emptor.

[mbox]

When buying a Tiger Bike online the exact same price will be charged as at the Showroom in BKK ( or even if you walk-in at factory in Samut Prakarn) because online sales are direct from factory Sales. There is a shipping charge , depending on location. Client's service center in his area he will be informed about, Service Center gets margin payment for the new Client . Pre- delivery check is done at factory level ... you are right they could do better in this section .

"Service Center" is a Tiger appointed mechanic. The list , granted, is a few month old and sometimes things do change-even though it was confirmed that it was up-to-date (you are right the CM service center has changed which was quite necessary ) in any case the buyer will be informed about this prior to receiving his Bike and if things aren't Ok a better solution will be found ( as seen in CM).

Since Tiger Bikes are simple bikes they are usually easy to fix. If there are problems that can't be solved by mechaninc Tiger Motors may send a service team right to you . Spares, some of the tiger parts do interchange from other manufacturers or can be easily sent from Samut Prakarn if needed.

All online ordering and Service or warranty matters are handled swiftly and in english and without headaches (communication is mostly via email, but can also be by phone).

Discounts are not offered - price is set by Tiger Motors.

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Edited April 18, 2011 by mbox

[MaiChai]

I saw Ryuko's on sale in Big C Ratchadamri (the one the Red shirts burned down; but its back now). The Cub clones looked a bit cheap to me, mind you I only gave them a quick look. Mudgards looked like they were made from cheap/brittle plastic and would worry about how good the chrome is (and how long it would take for them to rust). We had some bad experience with a JRD some years back where all the rubbers on the bike fell apart as they were not tropicalised, so thats another thing I would worry about. I think they were offered at around 31k baht. While I welcome any newcomer to the Thai market as its good to have lots of choice, I wonder about the quality of this brand? I would love them to prove me wrong, or any Chinese brand, but until they do I will stick with the known quality of Japanese bikes.

If you cant afford a new Japanese bike you are much better buying a second hand one than one of these unknown Chinese based brands. Especially in terms longevity and cheap and easily available parts and servicing.

Expect to be flamed for my comments...

[LeCharivari]

Mbox, I think I already said all that - except I was writing from the buyer's perspective, not the seller's.

(Edit: MaiChai, you won't get flamed by me! These bikes are fine if you want something "different", you are enthusiastic enough to put up with the problems and preferably do some or all of your own maintenance, and you don't mind a dramatic drop in value when you try to trade the bike in. If you just want something to get from A to B, in any particular engine size, and you want a simple life where your local dealer can sort out any problems for you on the spot and/or the price is a factor, then your comments are spot on)

Edited April 18, 2011 by LeCharivari

[Richard-BKK]

Zongshen has some decent service centers ...........

In regards of Service Center here are the ones from Tiger Motors ..........

Obviously nothing to choose between them (or nothing to choose at all, to be rather more realistic).

The Zongshen link is to an exclusively Thai language website which although it has some pictures of impressive looking "Service Centers" does not give any "strategically located" addresses or details of where you can get their recently introduced bikes serviced, as distinct from their motors. "Not 100% perfect" is an almost laughable understatement - except anyone buying one at the moment who encounters any sort of problem is unlikely to be laughing.

The Tiger link is equally impressive with a considerable number of "Service Centers" covering the country, again exclusively in Thai but including addresses and telephone numbers. Unfortunately these are not only not "up-to-date" (try those in Chiang Mai and Pattaya, just for starters) but they are not by any stretch of the imagination "Tiger Service Centers". They are no more than local bike repair shops which Tiger recommends, with limited training in and knowledge of Tiger bikes and even more limited spare parts (if any). As far as I am aware the only decent dealer is in Buri Ram, with even Tiger's showroom in Bangkok having a limited range of bikes available to view.

While Tiger has an internet sales option, most people buying "mail-order" expect two things: (1) good quality control, as there will obviously be no dealer pre-delivery check and service (2) a discount from the regular price, as there is no middle-man. Unfortunately they will get neither: Tiger's QC is infamous (as evidenced by a quick review of the club forum), and due to the delivery charge and no discount it costs marginally more for a "mail-order" bike than for one from a dealer (if you can find one).

"The price is great by the way for either of them, Ryuko or Tiger" but neither is for the average Joe Soap (or Joe Chamlong) who needs the simplicity in sales and service they expect from their local Mittyon - you get what you pay for.

Caveat emptor.

Excuse me, but we are in Thailand, it's not strange that a motorcycle manufacturer concentrate on the local population, try to find English on websites from Yamaha, Honda, or Suzuki... How much percent do you think the expat population is in Thailand, and how much of that one digit percentage is thinking to buy a 110cc motorcycle? The number of expats buying a (small engine) motorcycle will not justify the creation of a foreign language marketing plan...

Also the service Zongshen centers are operated by Zongshen Thailand, dealers selling Zongshen motorcycles are still able to service the bikes also the list of service centers doesn't include the service centers of the Thai Zongshen distributor. Nor does it include the service centers which BigC or large retailers hire to service the Zongshen motorcycles they sell.

Zongshen Thailand is a Thai company, and no parts are being imported to build the motorcycles they currently sell in Thailand. The Ryuka Classic 110 is a budget motorcycle, and is marketed as that, Zongshen also sells in Thailand some more solid scooters and motorcycles.

Also not forget Zongshen and Tiger are not the only ones trying to sell motorcycles in the 30,000 THB range, other names somebody could or should consider are Lifan and Sym... It's a dam_n shame that Kawasaki stopped the manufacturing of step-through motorcycle as they had an excellent price/quality level...

Edited April 18, 2011 by Richard-BKK

[LeCharivari]

Excuse me, Richard, but I didn't say it was "strange" - I simply made an observation (and Honda, etc, often do give information such as addresses in English). What was "strange", though, as I thought I had made clear, was that there was no list of "decent service centers" that serviced Zongshen bikes or of "dealers selling Zongshen motorcycles" on the link you gave (in Thai, English, Chinese or any other recognisable language).

I am very surprised by two of your points, however.

I had not realised that Big C was selling Zongshen motorcycles directly and that they had hired their own service centres. According to the Zongshen rep I spoke to in Carrefour recently this is certainly not the case there, where Carrefour are not responsible for any aspect of the sales or servicing of the bikes (just as they are not responsible for that of Yamaha, Honda or any other bikes or cars regularly sold on their premises). Maybe Big C has a different policy, but as Carrefour is now owned by Big C maybe the rep was misinformed.

I had also not realised that all the parts for Zongshen bikes were manufactured in Thailand, with none being imported for assembly here. Very unusual, as other manufacturers use various imported parts, some from Japan, some China, some elsewhere.