I Thought I Could Get Away From This

[ChiangMaiFun]

Religious freedom is one category Thailand does rate high compared to other countries. A lot of the other freedoms by comparison are far overrated and largely illusions.

Economic, press, speech, internet, legal, and drug freedoms when compared globally are little for Thailand to brag about.

Religious freedom and tolerance in Thailand should be one of it's finer selling points.

Religious Freedom in Thailand

a swallow does not a Summer make...

[Puwa]

Here's an idea: Let's determine who wins the great ThaiVisa religion war by seeing which side expresses more tolerance, compassion, and understanding for the other in this thread. Winner gets eternal salvation, online bragging rights, and a Reuben sandwich on cardboard rye at the Duke's. Ready? 1...2...3...go!

Tally after the first period:

Christians 1 (for the cotton candy)

Buddhists 1 (for religious freedom)

[Schooner]

I'm not worried about the Thai's one bit. The fact is that all of the major religions around the world are on the decline as people become more educated they are sorting out those aspects of religion which are based on humanism and were hijacked from that which is aimed at control. The cool thing about Thai Buddism is that it has kept its roots firmly planted in animism where it belongs.

At our engagement party in the village my wife's grandmother and her great aunts prepaired a huge meal with very expensive dishes and gifts. They prayed for the blessings of their ancesters for our union. It was a very powerful and beautiful thing to witness. They left the banquet untouched by human hands for the ancesters to feast on overnight. I was tempted to check to see if anything had been eaten the next morning but of course that would have been inapproate. Non the less it had the desired effect on me and my devotion to my wife and my commitment to the relationship. The last thing I want to do is piss off a bunch of thousand year old ghosts.

[Schooner]

I'm not worried about the Thai's one bit. The fact is that all of the major religions around the world are on the decline as people become more educated they are sorting out those aspects of religion which are based on humanism and were hijacked from that which is aimed at control. The only thing that religion ever had going for it that made it seem real was being in a room full of fellow humans and being a community. That's what humans want. The cool thing about Thai Buddism is that it has kept its roots firmly planted in animism where it belongs.

At our engagement party in the village my wife's grandmother and her great aunts prepaired a huge meal with very expensive dishes and gifts. They prayed for the blessings of their ancesters for our union. It was a very powerful and beautiful thing to witness. They left the banquet untouched by human hands for the ancesters to feast on overnight. I was tempted to check to see if anything had been eaten the next morning but of course that would have been inapproate. Non the less it had the desired effect on me and my devotion to my wife and my commitment to the relationship. The last thing I want to do is piss off a bunch of thousand year old ghosts.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Schooner

[ChiangMaiFun]

I'm not worried about the Thai's one bit. The fact is that all of the major religions around the world are on the decline as people become more educated they are sorting out those aspects of religion which are based on humanism and were hijacked from that which is aimed at control. The cool thing about Thai Buddism is that it has kept its roots firmly planted in animism where it belongs.

At our engagement party in the village my wife's grandmother and her great aunts prepaired a huge meal with very expensive dishes and gifts. They prayed for the blessings of their ancesters for our union. It was a very powerful and beautiful thing to witness. They left the banquet untouched by human hands for the ancesters to feast on overnight. I was tempted to check to see if anything had been eaten the next morning but of course that would have been inapproate. Non the less it had the desired effect on me and my devotion to my wife and my commitment to the relationship. The last thing I want to do is piss off a bunch of thousand year old ghosts.

The two things are quite, quite separate. Although Thais love to mix three things - not just two you mention. Buddhism, Animism and Hinduism. This is cultural not specific and Buddhism itself has no REAL ties (or Thai's ) to Animism.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Religious freedom is one category Thailand does rate high compared to other countries. A lot of the other freedoms by comparison are far overrated and largely illusions.

Economic, press, speech, internet, legal, and drug freedoms when compared globally are little for Thailand to brag about.

Religious freedom and tolerance in Thailand should be one of it's finer selling points.

Religious Freedom in Thailand

Agreed.

The fact that they made religious intolerance forbidden (even to the point of making it against the law,) speaks well of the society as a whole.

It's certainly speaks well in that one category. Other categories like freedom of the press being neck and neck with Saudi Arabia show there is definitely room for improvement in that area. Lots of other areas are freedom restricted also.

Religious belief is at the core of freedoms. I like a place that doesn't try to control what it's inhabitants believe about consciousness and the universe.

India is probably the most free in terms of religion. They have something like 22,000 recognized religions. Not sure about that number but I recall it's a lot of discreet religions.

Edited April 17, 2011 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[uptheos]

Christians have to live with the fact that when they were born or even when they were conceived, they were miserable sinners, worms, worthless scum, guilty of original sin and the result of obtaining this status at birth or in the womb, is to be sent into hellfire and damnation for eternity. In order to be released from this infinite torment, they have to start adoring some supernatural mystical being 24/7 who is watching your every move day and night and as Christpher Hitchen's puts it so well...."a celestial North Korea - but in North Korea you can escape it when you are dead". Because Christians have to live with this tremendous burden, it s fitting that they feel everyone else should share the burden too and by introducing people who have no previous knowledge of eternal damnation, probably makes them feel a little better that others will be sharing the load.

[chiangmaibruce]

Tally after the first period:

Christians 1 (for the cotton candy)

Buddhists 1 (for religious freedom)

Phew, it's really hot at our place this afternoon, and I would just like to float the fact that my position might be swayed were the (ardent/evangelical) christians to organise a cool breeze and perhaps a few clouds ... with bonus devotional points on offer for a light snowfall

[ChiangMaiFun]

Religious freedom is one category Thailand does rate high compared to other countries. A lot of the other freedoms by comparison are far overrated and largely illusions.

Economic, press, speech, internet, legal, and drug freedoms when compared globally are little for Thailand to brag about.

Religious freedom and tolerance in Thailand should be one of it's finer selling points.

Religious Freedom in Thailand

Agreed.

The fact that they made religious intolerance forbidden (even to the point of making it against the law,) speaks well of the society as a whole.

It's certainly speaks well in that one category. Other categories like freedom of the press being neck and neck with Saudi Arabia show there is definitely room for improvement in that area. Lots of other areas are freedom restricted also.

Religious belief is at the core of freedoms. I like a place that doesn't try to control what it's inhabitants believe about consciousness and the universe.

totally agree with that - well said

[mallmagician]

The talk of the religious groups and their charitable activities reminds me of Christopher Hitchens common challenge to religious speakers.

Give me an example of a good deed, or a charitable act done in the name of religion, that a person not of faith couldn't claim.

And now give me an example of a wicked act that has been done in the name of religion.

All religions preach morality as if it gives this to the human race. With the exception of some psychopaths, its intrinsic within the human race. It is religion that takes the morality from humans, and uses it to sell the religion, judge others, and as history tells us, uses this faith or that faith to commit atrocities the world over.

I can't help but wonder whether this lovely country would be better off with a school in place of every temple, church, mosque etc. They are everywhere, and can't be cheap to build or run. The money handed over in the name of fantasy could provide amazing resources to truly educate, and not brainwash...

[KhunChay]

you're missing the point.... they take advantage of that tolerance in a way Buddhists do not - it's disrespectful

Seen your avatar you look like a fanatic yourself.

[jko]

Perhaps this might go up on signs all around the world:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.

Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.

Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.

Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

-Lord Buddha

[realthaideal]

The late, great George Carlin had a line about organized religion that went something like "God is all powerful and all knowing. He is the greatest, the supreme being..... But he needs your money, so please donate right away !"

I'm not one for the bashing that is so easy to do. But I do highly dislike when one religion touts itself as the way, the only way, tacitly (or quite not-so) implying the other religion is wrong and uncivilized. And it's this unstated subcontext of the prosteletyzing which begets the equal and opposite reaction from so many of us. It's a form of doing unto others, if you think about it.

[Genericnic]

Perhaps this might go up on signs all around the world:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.

Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.

Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.

Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

-Lord Buddha

jko,

This would never work. It would require people to use rational thought processes to evaluate religion and we all know that rational thought is discouraged by religion.

David

[uptheos]

The late, great George Carlin had a line about organized religion that went something like "God is all powerful and all knowing. He is the greatest, the supreme being..... But he needs your money, so please donate right away !"

I'm not one for the bashing that is so easy to do. But I do highly dislike when one religion touts itself as the way, the only way, tacitly (or quite not-so) implying the other religion is wrong and uncivilized. And it's this unstated subcontext of the prosteletyzing which begets the equal and opposite reaction from so many of us. It's a form of doing unto others, if you think about it.

Thanks for the reminding of George Carlin and the money line. The part that precedes that is;

"Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!.......But he loves you".

The guy shouting on Loi Kroh is harmless as no one can make out what he's bellowing. The signs are harmless as no one really understands what they relate to. But the people that sneak into your territory, gain your trust and then try to get you to believe their wicked fairy tales on the pain of eternal damnation are not harmless. They are a poison that no self respecting individual should drink.

Edited April 17, 2011 by uptheos

[Paagai]

I'll let my signature speak for me Off to drink beer

[mallmagician]

Amen to that. :-)

Good point though - not only do they preach morality having claimed an intrinsic human trait as solely their own, they also teach bigotry and hatred.

Reason for edit:- realised that I said Amen to an avatar I hadn't looked at, when I meant to merely humorously say Amen to all the atheists (or humanists or secularists etc etc) posting above. Just in case my wife reads this, I thought I'd better edit, for the sake of my health.

Edited April 17, 2011 by mallmagician

[BB1955]

LIVE AND LET LIVE PLAIN AND SIMPLE

[elektrified]

We had some Jehova's witnesses pestering people here on Samui in a noodle soup stall the other month. They were politely told where to go by myself and the Thai's just looked at them as if they were stupid

The Thais got that one right.

Huh??? Some Thais are Jehova's Witnesses. They've been here at my house soliciting.

[elektrified]

Whenever I see something like this, whether ot be a sign, or a street preacher, or Karen nuns, I always think to myeslf what a lovely and tolerant society this is that I live in. When I read these kinds of comments and think about the kinds of people that must be making them, that view is reinforced with respect to Thai tolerance.

you're missing the point.... they take advantage of that tolerance in a way Buddhists do not - it's disrespectful

The fact is that there are Thais of many different religious persuasions here; Buddhist, Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Mormon, Jehova's Witness, and so forth. They all respect and tolerate each other. It is the farang bible thumping morons that I can't stand. They are everywhere and in large numbers and in your face and aggressive.

lannarebirth re "You don't know about Buddhist hell, huh? Ever been to Wat Rong Khun?"

Is that the Wat in Phayao? I've got photos if anyone cares to see them. I was surprised when I saw it.

Edited April 17, 2011 by elektrified

[james24]

Is it possible to have Jewish Thais....?

Ive never seen any and am not sure if the religion allows it....

[elektrified]

Is it possible to have Jewish Thais....?

Ive never seen any and am not sure if the religion allows it....

Indeed there are Thais in Israel. I can't swear that they are Jews. But I don't see any reason why they couldn't be. FYI the Jewish religion allows anyone to be a Jew.

[Genericnic]

Is it possible to have Jewish Thais....?

Ive never seen any and am not sure if the religion allows it....

Yes, it is possible. A Thai could convert to Judaism or a Thai man could marry a Jewish woman and any children they had would be considered Jews.

David

[LJW]

These signs, all on metal boards and mounted about 3-5 meters off the road on poles and trees, are EVERYWHERE on side roads in Chiang Mai, Lampang, Chiang Rai, Phrae, Phayou.... It is my suspicion that they are installed by PSP satelight company because their own signs are ofen mounted too, under the Christian signs.

My feeling is no big deal, there are many Thai and hilltribe Christians that live here, and it gets there ideas some attention.

No harm is done to anyone or anything

I'd like to see Buddhist signs go up in NY or London or Berlin - on public poles! it's absurd and totally arrogant

If you mean that that these Thai signs are arrogant, I completely disagree. I see them as Thai signs, put up by Thai people, and deal with a religion which is very popular in Thailand. No, I am not a Christian, but I can see nothing wrong with this very small scale advertising

[james24]

Is it possible to have Jewish Thais....?

Ive never seen any and am not sure if the religion allows it....

Indeed there are Thais in Israel. I can't swear that they are Jews. But I don't see any reason why they couldn't be. FYI the Jewish religion allows anyone to be a Jew.

Is it possible to have Jewish Thais....?

Ive never seen any and am not sure if the religion allows it....

Yes, it is possible. A Thai could convert to Judaism or a Thai man could marry a Jewish woman and any children they had would be considered Jews.

David

Thanks guys

I guess the way to find out if there was a Jewish community around would be to keep the eyes peeled for a kocha butchers, cant say I've seen one though.

In actual fact I've never really seen Judaism in E, S.E Asia.

[Genericnic]

Thanks guys

I guess the way to find out if there was a Jewish community around would be to keep the eyes peeled for a kocha butchers, cant say I've seen one though.

In actual fact I've never really seen Judaism in E, S.E Asia.

James,

There is a Chabad House located on Changklan Road just south of Pantip Plaza. It, along with the other Chabad Houses throughout the world, is run by the Chabad-Lubavitch which is a more fundamentalist branch of Judaism than the Reform or Conservative branches. I don't know of any other Jewish organizations or groups in Chiang Mai and only know of this one because it is near where I live and I pass it often on the way to and from other places.

David

Edited April 17, 2011 by Genericnic

[Mickeem]

These signs, all on metal boards and mounted about 3-5 meters off the road on poles and trees, are EVERYWHERE on side roads in Chiang Mai, Lampang, Chiang Rai, Phrae, Phayou.... It is my suspicion that they are installed by PSP satelight company because their own signs are ofen mounted too, under the Christian signs.

My feeling is no big deal, there are many Thai and hilltribe Christians that live here, and it gets there ideas some attention.

No harm is done to anyone or anything

I'd like to see Buddhist signs go up in NY or London or Berlin - on public poles! it's absurd and totally arrogant

If you mean that that these Thai signs are arrogant, I completely disagree. I see them as Thai signs, put up by Thai people, and deal with a religion which is very popular in Thailand. No, I am not a Christian, but I can see nothing wrong with this very small scale advertising

very small scale advertising! These signs are absolutley EVERYWHERE nailed up high on trees around the North of Thailand, it's just keeps suprising me the effort that has gone on over the years and the shear scale of it as I ride down a road in the middle of nowhere I spot another and another..

Have not noticed the PSP company signs though I will look out for them. I always wondered how they managed to install them so high up obviously to stop scrap metal collectors who could make a nice earner.

Has anyone ever seen these been mounted? Do they use a cherry picker or someone climbs up a rickety bamboo ladder?

[Gladiator]

Ive never seen any and am not sure if the religion allows it....

Indeed there are Thais in Israel. I can't swear that they are Jews. But I don't see any reason why they couldn't be. FYI the Jewish religion allows anyone to be a Jew.

Is it possible to have Jewish Thais....?

Thanks guys

I guess the way to find out if there was a Jewish community around would be to keep the eyes peeled for a kocha butchers, cant say I've seen one though.

In actual fact I've never really seen Judaism in E, S.E Asia.

[/quothttp://www.chabad.org/centers/default_cdo/aid/118404/jewish/Chabad-of-Chiang-Mai.htm

[uptheos]

The fact is that there are Thais of many different religious persuasions here; Buddhist, Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Mormon, Jehova's Witness, and so forth. They all respect and tolerate each other. It is the farang bible thumping morons that I can't stand. They are everywhere and in large numbers and in your face and aggressive.

Well said.

[uptheos]

If you mean that that these Thai signs are arrogant, I completely disagree. I see them as Thai signs, put up by Thai people, and deal with a religion which is very popular in Thailand. No, I am not a Christian, but I can see nothing wrong with this very small scale advertising

These signs are of no consequence because most people don't know what they mean and almost everyone couldn't care less.

What is amazing though is the incredible lengths that people will go to to try and get you to share their misery.