Complaints Filed Against Topless Women Dancing During Songkran.

[gregb]

Bit scary really, i have seen the full video, and no way the girls look that young, they just seemed like normal gogo age girls, which i thought they were.

Again, we have no way of knowing how old they really were. If you are the government and want to stop the distribution of those videos and get them pulled from the dozens of boards where they have been uploaded, the easiest and quickest thing to do is to say that the girls are under age.

There has been no evidence released by the government to support their statements that these girls are truly that young, nor should there be. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No. The incident is over though. I say let it rest.

Doesn't really matter what their ages are when you come right down to it. The government still looks like fools for how they reacted to it.

[bartender100]

Bit scary really, i have seen the full video, and no way the girls look that young, they just seemed like normal gogo age girls, which i thought they were.

Again, we have no way of knowing how old they really were. If you are the government and want to stop the distribution of those videos and get them pulled from the dozens of boards where they have been uploaded, the easiest and quickest thing to do is to say that the girls are under age.

There has been no evidence released by the government to support their statements that these girls are truly that young, nor should there be. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No. The incident is over though. I say let it rest.

Doesn't really matter what their ages are when you come right down to it. The government still looks like fools for how they reacted to it.

There is a piece in the Bangkok Post today, where a bar was raided on a tip off from the girls that are at the center of the scandal , and 300 underage patron's caught, the main cop in the area has been re-posted to non active position, i think it said 20 other cops all received B500 a day for turning a blind eye.

[Oberkommando]

And now, the police want to also make the argument that someone videotaping a crime being committed on the public street is a violation of the "criminals'" rights???

Don't forget the Police had 1000 undercover officers during Songkran out filming and photographing people who were misbehaving.

Were they also violating the rights of the people they were photographing and filming without permission?

[Oberkommando]

The reason they now want to charge the person(s) that filmed and uploaded the clip is the usual Thai way of dealing with their own insecurities.

Telling the truth is dangerous here.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Oberkommando

[jfchandler]

Channel 9 news just had a piece airing tonight that showed video of the girls wearing the bacalavas at a police news conference, and showing a fuzzy photo of several girls/women dancing at what looked to be a club.

My wife, who's not always dead-on on such news details, translated the report for me as saying the Song Kran girls had been working a dancers at the club that got raided by police the other day.... the one referred to in the news media report another member recapped above. And that the photo aired on TV alongside the police news conference was of the same girls dancing at that club.

That, at least, would explain the dancing skills that the girls exhibited during their Song Kran escapade.... Can anyone whose Thai skills are better than mine confirm that version of the news report???

They also had a video clip of a police officer, I gather the station commander who's getting transferred over the bribery allegations, walking out of the station and getting into his car, a large, seemingly late model Mercedes Benz.

Edited April 21, 2011 by jfchandler

[NanLaew]

May I be the first to point out TiT.... or TiT's in this instance.

Back on topic... it IS election time so based on a whopping 13 pages of 'opinion' on ThaiVisa, it would appear the governor's grandstanding on this issue has worked.

[bartender100]

Channel 9 news just had a piece airing tonight that showed video of the girls wearing the bacalavas at a police news conference, and showing a fuzzy photo of several girls/women dancing at what looked to be a club.

My wife, who's not always dead-on on such news details, translated the report for me as saying the Song Kran girls had been working a dancers at the club that got raided by police the other day.... the one referred to in the news media report another member recapped above. And that the photo aired on TV alongside the police news conference was of the same girls dancing at that club.

That, at least, would explain the dancing skills that the girls exhibited during their Song Kran escapade.... Can anyone whose Thai skills are better than mine confirm that version of the news report???

They also had a video clip of a police officer, I gather the station commander who's getting transferred over the bribery allegations, walking out of the station and getting into his car, a large, seemingly late model Mercedes Benz.

As i mentioned its in Thur Bangkok post

[jfchandler]

As i mentioned its in Thur Bangkok post

The article you're referring to doesn't say anything about if the three girls were working as dancers at the pub.... It just says they had been there... The article also doesn't say anything about the police station cmdr. driving a big Benz....

[dunkin2012]

extremely bad perpetrators....

big bonus this year.... to the cop...

[luckizuchinni]

And by the way, yes videoing people on the street without their consent is a violation of their rights in many countries.

I don't know about "many countries," but in the US, some woman who took off their tops at Mardis Gras for beads tried to sue the guy from "Girls Gone Wild" for violating their privacy by taping them and then distributing the tapes. They lost the case because in US law, at least, the privacy issue occurs only when you have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and by taking off your shirt in a group of several hundred thousand revelers, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy.

[kdc1899]

I have now seen the clip. (Please don't ask me where or your post will be deleted). It looks like it was a bit of high spirited fun, as you would see a thousand times over in Rio and as I have seen at beach parties in Europe. Definitely nothing to get exercised about in the way the pompous hypocrits have done. You can be sure all the males who have a fuss are regulars at massage parlours and "cafes".

Oh, really?.....personally, anyone who thinks that there's nothing wrong with a hundred or so men leering at 3 girls (yes 13, 15 & 16 are girls) dancing topless is more akin to being a paedophile than this being completely normal. Name one country where such behaviour would be acceptable?.....Come on Arkady, you're better than that.

The 3 were all over 20 years old. They are all Issan girls. The parents of the girls in the vid are in Issan. Not BKK.

All the actors whose faces you saw at the station and the other actors posing as the 3 girls were just that;actors.

.

[kropotkin]

is wikileaks still banned ? no, this is not off topic........ wink wink

[Tywais]

the privacy issue occurs only when you have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and by taking off your shirt in a group of several hundred thousand revelers, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy.

That is correct and is covered in many articles on photographers rights.

[Time Traveller]

And by the way, yes videoing people on the street without their consent is a violation of their rights in many countries.

I don't know about "many countries," but in the US, some woman who took off their tops at Mardis Gras for beads tried to sue the guy from "Girls Gone Wild" for violating their privacy by taping them and then distributing the tapes. They lost the case because in US law, at least, the privacy issue occurs only when you have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and by taking off your shirt in a group of several hundred thousand revelers, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy.

Well America may be the exception. But I do know about France and Australia where taking pictures of people (even if they are topless on a beach) in public without their consent is illegal. I'm certain there are laws about this in Spain and Italy also, but I think getting a fine for taking pictures of semi naked people at the beach might be the least of your concerns if you get caught doing that in Italy!

[Ulysses G.]

It looks like it was a bit of high spirited fun, as you would see a thousand times over in Rio and as I have seen at beach parties in Europe.

Oh, really?.....personally, anyone who thinks that there's nothing wrong with a hundred or so men leering at 3 girls (yes 13, 15 & 16 are girls) dancing topless is more akin to being a paedophile ...

Pedophiles are attracted to children who have not reached puberty - usually under 13 - so this assertion is absurd. In fact, it has been reported that none of the girls was younger than 20.

[jfchandler]

What's the source of the "none younger than 20" report?

Obviously that's a lot different than the original report by police of them being mid-teenagers....

[gregb]

What's the source of the "none younger than 20" report?

Obviously that's a lot different than the original report by police of them being mid-teenagers....

We will never know how old the girls really were. It is possible either report could be correct. In the absence of any factual evidence all we have are rumors and reports that may have ulterior motives. If they were in fact teenagers, they were extremely well developed for their age, and appreciating their assets hardly constitutes actual pedophilia. It would be a legal technicality at best, and I don't think it proper to malign TV members for being human.

So, can we at least agree we'll never truly know how old they were, and stop the bickering? We'll never even know if they were truly apprehended or identified. Let's just admit they were attractive. They put on a nice show. Show's over now. Even the cultural ministry seems to have decided the best thing to do is to put a quick end to this and move on.

If you would like to continue the experience there are hundreds of establishments throughout Thailand where you can go see a repeat performance every evening, and the cultural ministry will not say a word. The fact that they decided they needed to make a stink about this particular exhibition at all just goes to show how truly ridiculous they really are.

[atyclb]

The unnamed ministry of culture politician while in a private suite at poseidon massage complex became up-hauled upon viewing(youtube) the two shameless women dancing semi-nude. A police arrest and reprimand was subsequently ordered at which time the polce so eloquently forced the girls to apologize for not projecting a positive image of thai society.

========

personally I see little value of dancing topless in public but the hypocrisy is staggering.

[Thaiered]

<deleted> - a 500 Baht fine !?!?!?!?!?

I got fined 400 Baht last week in Pattaya Tai for parking my motorbike on an even date when it should have been an odd date - added to that the taxi fair to Soi 9 to pay the fine and the taxi fair back again to get my chained up bike unchained before it was impounded (with my 75 yr old dad who doesn't walk too great these days) I reckon they got off lightly - I didn't bring any shame to Thailand

[whybother]

There is a good article in the BP by K Voranai putting this into perspective.

[StreetCowboy]

<deleted> - a 500 Baht fine !?!?!?!?!?

I got fined 400 Baht last week in Pattaya Tai for parking my motorbike on an even date when it should have been an odd date - added to that the taxi fair to Soi 9 to pay the fine and the taxi fair back again to get my chained up bike unchained before it was impounded (with my 75 yr old dad who doesn't walk too great these days) I reckon they got off lightly - I didn't bring any shame to Thailand

That's madness - impounding your dear old Dad as well. Can you only park him on alternate days too?

That could well be another nail ...

On which topic, wishing all our readers a Very Happy Nailing-Up Day

SC

[cougar52]

I'm quite confused about the shame these young topless dancers have brought upon Thailand, especially when I read about Sex Lottery in Sara Buri. And the price of the ticket being 30 Baht for a chance for the happy winning factory worker to spend the night at a hotel, and select his "young" prize for the night from a catalog young women.

But, this does not bring shame to Thailand. "truly, UNBELIEVABLE THAILAND"???????

[FOODLOVER]

I'm quite confused about the shame these young topless dancers have brought upon Thailand, especially when I read about Sex Lottery in Sara Buri. And the price of the ticket being 30 Baht for a chance for the happy winning factory worker to spend the night at a hotel, and select his "young" prize for the night from a catalog young women.

But, this does not bring shame to Thailand. "truly, UNBELIEVABLE THAILAND"???????

Boobs that are free are very shameful ! You must make a considerable profit for the said boobs to be acceptable. Thai business 101 just ask your local politician or police "officer". Amazing Boobs!

[gregb]

I'm quite confused about the shame these young topless dancers have brought upon Thailand, especially when I read about Sex Lottery in Sara Buri. And the price of the ticket being 30 Baht for a chance for the happy winning factory worker to spend the night at a hotel, and select his "young" prize for the night from a catalog young women.

But, this does not bring shame to Thailand. "truly, UNBELIEVABLE THAILAND"???????

Boobs that are free are very shameful ! You must make a considerable profit for the said boobs to be acceptable. Thai business 101 just ask your local politician or police "officer". Amazing Boobs!

Have to agree here. You obviously glossed over the official comments regarding that lottery. The immediate quotes from the police after that story was exposed weren't complaining about the fact that that the lottery was prostitution, but the fact that the 30 baht ticket price was too cheap. If you really want to put all that has happened into perspective what you have to understand is that the police consider themselves to own all the female naughty bits in the country. If you want to share them with others, you have to pay a tithe to the police.

The shame to the country comes when some women want to create a competing, low cost alternative market.

[FalangBaa]

Thailand has an undeserved reputation in the world media for being a haven for sexual immorality. This reputation is undeserved and untrue if you remove from the equation the foreigners who come here as sex tourists, precisely because of this reputation, to prey sexually on young Thai people. Thailand should do everything in its power to crack down on people, even its own citizens, who are guilty of public immorality like this, even on Songkran day. That is no excuse. Crack down on, arrest and deport the type of foreigners who come here to Thailand for sex, because Thai people and genuine tourists don't want them here. Thailand does not have a higher rate of prostitution than the global average if you disregard the high number of foreigners who come here specifically for sex. Hopefully we're going to see a big crackdown on this kind of activity after the new government is elected.

[yoshiwara]

Thailand has an undeserved reputation in the world media for being a haven for sexual immorality. This reputation is undeserved and untrue if you remove from the equation the foreigners who come here as sex tourists, precisely because of this reputation, to prey sexually on young Thai people. Thailand should do everything in its power to crack down on people, even its own citizens, who are guilty of public immorality like this, even on Songkran day. That is no excuse. Crack down on, arrest and deport the type of foreigners who come here to Thailand for sex, because Thai people and genuine tourists don't want them here. Thailand does not have a higher rate of prostitution than the global average if you disregard the high number of foreigners who come here specifically for sex. Hopefully we're going to see a big crackdown on this kind of activity after the new government is elected.

Purachai showed the way with his crackdown on young women wearing spaghetti straps. One of Thaksin's more inspired appointments.

[zthyadat]

Thailand has an undeserved reputation in the world media for being a haven for sexual immorality. This reputation is undeserved and untrue if you remove from the equation the foreigners who come here as sex tourists, precisely because of this reputation, to prey sexually on young Thai people. Thailand should do everything in its power to crack down on people, even its own citizens, who are guilty of public immorality like this, even on Songkran day. That is no excuse. Crack down on, arrest and deport the type of foreigners who come here to Thailand for sex, because Thai people and genuine tourists don't want them here. Thailand does not have a higher rate of prostitution than the global average if you disregard the high number of foreigners who come here specifically for sex. Hopefully we're going to see a big crackdown on this kind of activity after the new government is elected.

Undeserved reputation? You clearly have not noticed all the brothels in every neighbourhood in town. The tourist sex trade is the tip of the iceberg - the part that is plainly visible. In surveys of young Thai men, an alarming proportion - the majority in fact - have been to a prostitute at least once, and for many of them their first sexual experience was with a prostitute. In my home country of Canada, visiting a prostitute is the exception, not the rule. Have you not noticed the brothels on Ratchada and Phetburi roads - towering rows of them the size of apartment buildings, with every room purpose built for paid sexual liasons (for Thais)? Have you noticed all the hotels around with numbers? They are short time hotels for Thais, and most of them are happy to provide a girl if you don't bring your own. There are also private small brothels in every neighbourhood, ones that you are probably not noticing as such. When I first got a Hutch phone, I used the "search for local entertainment" feature, and discovered that within a 600 metre radius of my house there were six small soapy massage places - and those were just the ones listed. I went to look and saw places that I had walked past before without noticing what they were. They usually are just a private house, or they are upstairs from a snooker hall or some other business.

Cracking down on prostitution will achieve nothing. First off, there is too much money in it for the police to maintain serious enforcement no matter what wonderful problem solving "moral" government is in power. And even if they did, prostitution just moves more underground. You cannot stamp it out without an iron fisted dictator, and even then... Human history has proven this time and again.

"Thai people don't want them here"? I believe the tens of thousands of Thai people in the sex trade are delighted to see them. Or are they not "fake" Thais catering to "fake" tourists?

It is an ugly business, yes, but it is nothing more than a sweet dream to believe that by "cracking down" everyone in the country can be made to behave in a morally upstanding way.

[jfchandler]

Thailand has an undeserved reputation in the world media for being a haven for sexual immorality. This reputation is undeserved and untrue if you remove from the equation the foreigners who come here as sex tourists, precisely because of this reputation, to prey sexually on young Thai people. Thailand should do everything in its power to crack down on people, even its own citizens, who are guilty of public immorality like this, even on Songkran day. That is no excuse. Crack down on, arrest and deport the type of foreigners who come here to Thailand for sex, because Thai people and genuine tourists don't want them here. Thailand does not have a higher rate of prostitution than the global average if you disregard the high number of foreigners who come here specifically for sex. Hopefully we're going to see a big crackdown on this kind of activity after the new government is elected.

You really ought to try learning something about Thailand before you start posting such nonsense as above...

You allude to the Thai teenagers who were topless dancing during Song Kran... And then proceed to call for deporting farang tourists.... Well guess what, the girls dancing on Song Kran were doing so for a mainly Thai audience...and clearly were being egged on mostly by Thais.....

But more importantly, as other posters have and will reinforce, the farang related part of prostitution is Thailand, although more visible to non-Thais, is relatively small in comparison to the much broader native market... So what do you want to do, deport Thais from their own country for frequenting prostitutes?

And lastly, just who appointed you as the judge of what constitutes "public immorality"? I must have missed that somewhere... To me, and perhaps a lot of others, Thai children who are abused by their families, women who are the victims of domestic violence, endemic public corruption and a lousy education system all constitute a much bigger "public immorality" that a couple girls dancing topless at Song Kran.

[Ulysses G.]

Thailand has an undeserved reputation in the world media for being a haven for sexual immorality.

You mean because of all the sex workers who have flourished here for centuries in Thai society?

You are right about one thing, what is immoral about consensual sexual arrangements between adults?

[StreetCowboy]

Thailand has an undeserved reputation in the world media for being a haven for sexual immorality.

You mean because of all the sex workers who have flourished here for centuries in Thai society?

You are right about one thing, what is immoral about consensual sexual arrangements between adults?

The USA has an international reputation for financial impropriety. The Enron scandal did more to damage the stock market there than the 11 September 2001 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centre towers. And yet so many of us still to choose to invest there.

Most of us (to avoid accusations of generalisation - some of us) choose to think beyond the polemic and lustful, prurient envy of the tabloids.

I am surprised that none of the bigots on this channel have seen fit to express sympathy with the Thai people who are appalled at the prejudiced and narrow-minded viewpoint that so many foreigners have of their country, and who would seek to restore some dignity to the Kingdom. Instead, they seek to vilify and pillory Thailand and Thais based on their own stereotypes.

If we were really keen to tackle the woes of our host nation, we would seek to address its greatest social scourge - gambling. Perhaps we could seek to have the Barclays' Premier League suspended for a season?

SC