Hep C And Drinking

[RickThai]

Hello All,

During the Liver Checkup thread, it got a little off topic regarding Hepatitis C and alcohol, so I thought I would start a new topic focussed on Hep C.

As I have stated in previous posts, I was diagnosed with Hep C in 1997. I tried two different treatments: Interferon in 1997, and Interferon with Ribavirin during 1998.

Neither treatment cleared the virus. I decided at that time to continue on with my life and continue to drink and enjoy myself until I died.

This seemed like a good idea at the time, but within ten years, I became really sick and in August of 2008, I was told that I had a 40% chance of dying within the next 90 days. This by itself, was a wakeup call, but what really changed my decision to die quietly was all the pain I had started enduring.

I've always considered myself fairly stoic to pain and have had several instances where I performed surgery on myself without anesthetic. Among these was the removal of a fish hook that had embedded itself deeply into my middle finger. Using a razor blade and a pair of needle nose pliers, I was able to push the hook completely through my finger tip, until I could grab the point of the hook with the pliers and pull the hook completely out. It took 3 and a half hours, but I managed it.

Another time I had had a chin implant surgically implanted by a doctor. For some reason, the implant caused an open wound to appear on my left jawbone. The wound refused to heal, and after two months, I decided to remove the chin implant by myself. Using a razor blade, I enlarged the wound and then sawed through the chin implant at the opening. I then used a pair of needle nose pliers to pull out the top, left part of the implant. That was fairly easy. Next came another 3 hours of jerking out the remainder of the implant. I had to enlarge the opening twice more during the process. After stopping the bleeding and mopping up the blood, I taped up the opening and it eventually healed. Again this is not something for the fainthearted.

However, in spite of my history of dealing with pain, nothing prepared me for the pain of End-stage Liver Diesease. By 2006, I got really sick from drinking 4 bottles of beer. I was so sick I couldn't eat or do anything but lay down in the fetal position. I quit drinking on the spot, it was so bad.

By 2007 I was experiencing multiple muscle cramps in my legs and hands. Getting 3 simultaneous muscle cramps in both legs is unbelievabley painfull. There is nothing you can do but suffer, as you can't get up to walk it off.

That was just a taste of things to come. That kind of pain quickly took away any desire for me to tough it out until the end.

I eventually had a liver transplant, and with some lifestyle changes, I'm a very happy and grateful person to be alive today. Because I was not drinking and had a healthy liver I was able to clear the Hep C virus using Interferon and Ribavirin.

So please don't sit on your Hep C and continue to drink. Eventually it will get you in a very miserable way.

The good news is that in May, the FDA is scheduled to approve two new drugs; bocepevir and telaprevir, that can be used with the standard Interferon and Ribavirin therapy.

What makes this such good news is that using one of the new drugs, along with the Interferon and Ribavirn, increases the cure rates to about 75%, even with patients who have the most cure-resistant variants of Hep C, genotypes 1a and 1b.

I strongly encourage anyone who has Hep C to start enquiring about this treatment availablity in the next couple of months. You'll certainly be glad that you did.

I want to thank Groongthep, who privately e-mailed me that an earlier statement I made concerning the approval of the new Hep C drugs was in error. Thank you for helping me get this vital information straight.

Regards to All,

Rick

[RickThai]

Just an update to any or all who may be interested: The Denver Post reported on 15 May 2011, that the US FDA (Food and Drug Administration) has approved a new drug for use in curing Hepatitus C. It is called Victrelis and is in pill form. It is said to effect a cure within 7 months (which is about 1/2 the time the normal Interferon/Ribavirin is administered) and has a very high cure rate (the report didn't go into the details). The article also did not mention whether the pill is used alone, or in conjunction with the standard combination therapy.

I hope someone on this forum can find this information helpful.

RickThai

[cobra]

The first thing a doctor tells any Hep C patient is to minimize any further assault on their liver,

Cirrhosis of the liver due to excessive alcohol intake is bad enough, combined with Hep C almost certainly results in eventual liver failure.

Why anyone would continue drinking doesn't make sense unless they have a death wish....(deletion by moderator)

The whole self surgery thing is also very suspect, I'm surprised you haven't died from massive post-infections.

[RickThai]

The first thing a doctor tells any Hep C patient is to minimize any further assault on their liver,

Cirrhosis of the liver due to excessive alcohol intake is bad enough, combined with Hep C almost certainly results in eventual liver failure.

Why anyone would continue drinking doesn't make sense unless they have a death wish...(deletion by moderator)

The whole self surgery thing is also very suspect, I'm surprised you haven't died from massive post-infections.

Well I can assure you that everything I post is absolute truth. I was diagnosed with Hep C on FEB 1997, I continued to drink until around July 2006. Then I got so sick from drinking only 4 beers, that I couldn''t eat or do anything but lay on the couch for 4 days. After that I had 3 beers spread out on a two week vacation to Thailand in January of 2007 (one beer in Koh Phuket, one beer in Koh Phi Phi, and one beer in Kamphangphet).

In September of 2007, I went to Switzerland on a business trip. Although I tried to drink a glass of wine (free booze in Business class is hard to resist), I couldn't take more than a sip. In Schaffenhausen, I managed to drink 2 or 3 small glasses (weird Swiss size, 33 deciliters or something) spread out over a 10 day period.

If you believe alcoholics will let a little thing like Hep C from interfering with their drinking, you are very naive. The only thing that stopped me was the pain from a damaged-beyond repair, liver.

In November of 2007 I entered a Liver Transplant evaluation program at the University of Colorado Hospital. I was given a "40% chance of mortality within 90 days". That's a doctor's written diagnosis, not my words.

On March 5 2008, I was successfully place on the liver transplant waiting list. I was so near death, that within 5 days (March 11, 2008), I underwent liver transplant surgery.

According to the surgeon who performed the surgery, my heart and stopped three times during the operation. I spent over 20 days in the ICU (Intensive Care Unit).

I was started on Interferon and Ribavirin on January 2009 (third try). I was taking slightly more than the recommended dosage, but the doctors then put me on two more medications to help bolster my red blood cell count and my white blood cell count (At one point my RBC was down to 9000, (people can spontaneously bleed to death without injury below 13000).

For almost 8 months, I was taking $8000.00 worth of medicine a month.

I cleared the Hep C virus about a year ago.

I eventually recovered to about 80% of my post ESLD disease.

As a side effect of taking immune suppressant medications (which I will have to take for the rest of my life), I have had quite a few skin cancers (basal and squamoust).

Since January 2011, I have had three skin cancers removed by doctors, and I have removed 4 others by doing self-surgery.

I have a another precancer on mty right arm that I need to remove. I plan on video-taping that removal and putting it on YouTube.

In closing, never underestimate what people can do. Although the concept of having enough discipline and self-control to slice out complete junks of skins may be alien to you, believe me, there are people out there who have done much more (sawing off their own limbs, etc.).

As far as infections, yes there is always that risk, but I try to use sterile gauze, antiseptics (betadine, alcohol, etc.) and sterilize the razors, needle-nose plier, etc. As for bleeding, I generally use direct pressure, and if that fails, I'm prepared to use a clean soldering iron for cauterization.

I was in a medical unit during the first Gulf War (Desert Storm) and I know a little bit about dealing with wounds and battlefield surgical techiques. I could do some self-suturing, if I really had too. The biggest problem, I have is sometimes only having one hand free. My wife refuses to help me, and it is difficult to slice and maneurvor the skin at times.

I wish you well.

RickThai

Edited September 18, 2011 by Sheryl

[RickThai]

Cobra,

Just did a YouTube search for self surgery, and lo and behold, there are dozens of clips. So there!

RickThai

[RickThai]

Per the FDA website: Victrelis is to be used in combination with Peginterferon and Ribavirin.

RickThai

[Ijustwannateach]

I will just say that any medical problems related to the liver, and the drinking HAS to stop. I had a friend with severe liver damage from a rather unusual virus which went uncontrolled for too long and he was told he shouldn't drink anything for several years, and then only a bit. I had another friend who recovered from Hep B after changing his lifestyle radically to promote his own health.

Rick, you sound like you hit bottom not a moment too soon- a lot of people that far down might have given up. You've paid a big price, but you had a lot of courage and I hope your stories will help others avoid going that far.

[maccaroni man]

I met a man within the first 30 days of arriving in bali back in 96, we became good friends and went on the piss many times together, as our relationship developed into a friendship I became aware of all his illness; hep c was one of many. He finally had to begin medical treatment i.e. once every few months he would travel to bkk for a full check up, treatment and a piss up. I would go up to meet with him if i could make the time but most times took a pass until his last visit when we knew he was not long to live, he was 60yrs old.

When i arrived in bkk we made phone contact and an appointment to meet at his favorite bar. What I saw when we met was sad, shocking and repulsive. He was seated at his favorite table with a few of his favorite girls, they were in tears, he was too weak to lift a beer bottle to his lips. to make a short story long, i took him to his room and put him to bed, the next day i found him in a coma so he went to icu in bumie and was awake, strong and back to his old self within a week. he checked out of the hospital, began drinking a few beers again and returned to bali within 3 days of returning to bali he was back in the hospital. He died a couple of weeks later. R.I.P. He had a good run but he could not out run himself or death.

there was a period of time where he followed all medical advice and stopped drinking, smoking and joined a gym, after a yr of this his test results were no better and he decided that he had no joy in life so if he was done he was going on his terms. I would have liked to see him live a healthy long life but that was not who he was.

[uwe_rayong]

Congratulations on your recovery!

What I don't understand is, if you have enough money to spend on business class tickets, chin implants and more then 60,000 USD on medicine, why you are such a tight ass when it comes to rather cheap treatments that with the help of local anesthesia are pain free?

Does it satisfy you to expose your body to such pain? Do you feel more relaxed after your treatment? Do you want to shock other people with you actions? Do you want to punish yourself for beeing such an idiot in the past?

[Sheryl]

A number of edits have been made in keeping with forum rules. please note rules regarding flaming and, in particular, the rules specific to the Health Forum and its sub-forums. There is zero tolerance for posts that are not civil in tone.

It is not at all uncommon for people with liver disease to keep on drinking. Some right unto (and into) the grave. That's the power of alcohol addiction. People who are not alcoholics fail to understand that what for them is an easy matter of self control is quite something else for an alcoholic. Alcoholics are not simply people who drink more than they should, they are people with a physiological constitution which renders them unable to control their drinking the way others do. To make matters even harder, and after years of compulsive drinking, serious withdrawal symptoms set in when one stops.

Obviously anyone with liver problems should stop drinking but for many people it is easier said than done.

Please let's not get sidetracked into discussions about the OP's preference for self-surgery (which is also not that unusual, although certainly not something I would advise). He mentioned it solely in the context of explaining the pain that end stage liver disease brings.

[RickThai]

Congratulations on your recovery!

What I don't understand is, if you have enough money to spend on business class tickets, chin implants and more then 60,000 USD on medicine, why you are such a tight ass when it comes to rather cheap treatments that with the help of local anesthesia are pain free?

Does it satisfy you to expose your body to such pain? Do you feel more relaxed after your treatment? Do you want to shock other people with you actions? Do you want to punish yourself for beeing such an idiot in the past?

Thank you for the congratulations.

As far as being cheap, for 22 years I worked as a Software Engineer (Engineers, do tend to be rather cheap). The trip to Switzerland was on business and paid for by the company I worked for at the time. At the time of my chin implant I was making over $100k USD a year.

I quit my job almost two years ago, and have been living on my savings (perfectly adequate by the way), but I still try to cut (not a pun, I swear) expenses when I can.

In the USA, even with Health Insurance, medical treatment is expensive. In Jan/Feb of this year I had a skin cancer removed from the back of my neck. It took three trips to the doctor's office (It was very deep). With lab fees, facility fees, ect., It cost me over $2000.00 USD out of my own pocket.

Just a small, skin tag removal, would wind up costing me $500.00. For that amount of money, I can tolerate the pain and hopefully manage the wound care.

I don't like pain, but I can deal with it. I realize that in spite of my precautions and experience, I still run a risk of infection, and may have to resort to professional help. I still go to the doctor for preventative care (skin check-ups, etc), but minor surgery I can generally handle by myself. BTW: I removed the skin tag from my right arm, that I mentioned above and it has healed perfectly, but I didn't video tape it, since I didn't want to encourage others to do the same, and I really have nothing to prove.

As Sheryl pointed out, the important point to my story, is that no matter how tough you are, nothing can prepare you for the misery you will suffer in End-stage Liver Disease.

It is a debilitating and horrible way to die. Please believe that, if nothing else.

Regards,

Rick

Edited September 19, 2011 by RickThai