Abhisit Aghast At Lack Of Knowledge

[dunkin2012]

in 1450 the korean king Sejong has introduced a new alphabet the hangul, because korean people were unable to write and communicate: it was a brake to the Country development.

The hangul is a powerful alphabet with a limited number of signs.

My elsdest child spend his time at school learning to write and read Thai, apparently a very limited time spent on other topics. geography: nil, History truncated, Calculus bare minimum.

But also in the Country (Issan) the environment is not there. Where to find books except Tesco? I have been obliged to buy a basic Atlas in Siam Paragon after looking around several days. We discuss at home the worldwide events but, true, Most of Thais have no a clue of Geographia. History knowledge is also very limited. truncated i will say.

Most Thais people are living in a buble, with nearly no knowledge of the outside world, definitively Thailand is going to be isolated from the worldwide evolution.

Maybe the first step is to begin to simplify the Thai writing, and to learn the International alphabet...so Thai will be more open on the world...but maybe it is exactly what do not want some Elites?

They distorted the history being taught at school .................

[dunkin2012]

200 rounded up.

haha.................

amused!

processing errors they said....

1 / 3 or 1/3 = .33333 (1/3 rounded off, it just goes on and on)

66.6 / .33333 (rounded off) = 199.8019980199802

or 200 rounded up.

66.6 / .3333333333 (rounded off) =199.80000001998

200 rounded up. And shot.

66.6 / .33333333333333333 = 199.800000000000002

66.6 / .333 = 200, true, but that is not 1/3rd

It never said ' 1/3 of 66.6 ' which does equal 22.2

i got it

but sorry...........

I was thinking of the 200 uni. ranking

[Pawpcorn]

Quote: "So many children got zero in maths, even though it was a multiple-choice test," he said. "I can't believe that our children can be this stupid."

--------------------------------------

Well! The other STRONG possibility here, is that the kids who got a zero score just took one look at the tests... said "<removed> it, mai pen rai", and went back to chatting on their mobiles, never bothering to answer ANY question!... Easy answer to a real "puzzler" for Kuhn Mark!

Been there, seen that! 555+

[bhakta]

Not at all surprising. I have two kids in Thai schools, as I am not able to afford an international school. I am appalled at how poor their English skills are, even though they have a native English speaking father. Of course they understand, but their speaking is poor and their reading is very bad. I often wonder what they learn in the schools.

[Bagwan]

Mr Abhisit appears to have woken up and seen the reality of the general education standards in Thailand. He, of course, was educated at Eaton College (one of the top two academic schools in the UK) and Oxbridge. Now that the Prime Minister realizes the truth of the situation, will anything constructive be done about it? I hope so, but there are no quick fixes.

I believe that Khun Abhisit attended Eton College and can find no mention of an Eaton College, at least of one situated on the Sceptred Isle. I suggest a smidgen of research is required since in no way can Eton claim to be an educational centre par excellence. The raison d'etre of Eton is to provide the aristocratic and well connected with a place of safety to dump their offspring so that they remain unencumbered to immerse themselves in the social round e.g. Wimbledon, Henley, Ascot, Badminton, Windsor Polo, etc etc. Their brats of course acquire pretensions of superiority being, as they are, insulated from the 'common herd' and already forming relationships and acquaintances with the movers and shakers of future years. One might say that Eton is the first early step in the art of networking.

Oxbridge is a term used by part educated yobs, such as newspaper reporters, to vent their spleen and angst that they did not gain entry to one of the two earliest and best regarded universities in the English speaking world i.e. Oxford or Cambridge. Both universities are excellent in their different ways, and have been for over 800 years. Anybody using the term is usually signalling that he/she attended a 'red brick' university. Since Oxbridge is a virtual concept rather than having substance, nobody can say that they were educated there.

Just my take reflecting my truths - and this thread is about education, is it not?

[bhakta]

Not at all surprising. I have two kids in Thai schools, as I am not able to afford an international school. I am appalled at how poor their English skills are, even though they have a native English speaking father. Of course they understand, but their speaking is poor and their reading is very bad. I often wonder what they learn in the schools.

[ginjag]

Thanks for the response, I wondered if what I said was not believed. How I found out was I did 2 terms at 2 high schools, I did a little Mr. Bean style (mime stuff) got attention, they loved it and went on to learn a lot, only because they ENJOYED IT. If bored , Thai kids are NOT interested. Doesn't that ring a bell with us at school, not always but the subjects I did well at was with the nice kind teachers, but they knew their job.

This is a reply to lpcustoms #75

[Misterwhisper]

I yesterday bought some groceries at my local convenience store. The total bill came to 157 Baht. Since I only had a 1,000 Baht note and a little small change on me, I thought I'd make it easy for the clerk and handed over the 1,000 Baht note plus 57 Baht in small bills and coins.

Why was I not surprised when she had to deploy her pocket calculator to figure out that she owed me 900 Baht in change?

I just stood there, my mouth agape in utter disbelief.

[Scott]

Several off-topic posts and replies to them have been deleted. This topic is not about politics, per se, and certainly isn't about the type of democracy in the USA or the wonders of the Netherlands.

Please stay on topic.

[seriouseats]

I yesterday bought some groceries at my local convenience store. The total bill came to 157 Baht. Since I only had a 1,000 Baht note and a little small change on me, I thought I'd make it easy for the clerk and handed over the 1,000 Baht note plus 57 Baht in small bills and coins.

Why was I not surprised when she had to deploy her pocket calculator to figure out that she owed me 900 Baht in change?

I just stood there, my mouth agape in utter disbelief.

Tesco phuket, farang owned Post service shop.

I went to photocopy pages..

they added 1+1+1+1+1+1 on the calculator.. then did x2 for 2baht per page.

obviously the fat girl next to that one, had to verify to make sure the +1's were correct.

[folium]

Mr Abhisit appears to have woken up and seen the reality of the general education standards in Thailand. He, of course, was educated at Eaton College (one of the top two academic schools in the UK) and Oxbridge. Now that the Prime Minister realizes the truth of the situation, will anything constructive be done about it? I hope so, but there are no quick fixes.

I believe that Khun Abhisit attended Eton College and can find no mention of an Eaton College, at least of one situated on the Sceptred Isle. I suggest a smidgen of research is required since in no way can Eton claim to be an educational centre par excellence. The raison d'etre of Eton is to provide the aristocratic and well connected with a place of safety to dump their offspring so that they remain unencumbered to immerse themselves in the social round e.g. Wimbledon, Henley, Ascot, Badminton, Windsor Polo, etc etc. Their brats of course acquire pretensions of superiority being, as they are, insulated from the 'common herd' and already forming relationships and acquaintances with the movers and shakers of future years. One might say that Eton is the first early step in the art of networking.

Oxbridge is a term used by part educated yobs, such as newspaper reporters, to vent their spleen and angst that they did not gain entry to one of the two earliest and best regarded universities in the English speaking world i.e. Oxford or Cambridge. Both universities are excellent in their different ways, and have been for over 800 years. Anybody using the term is usually signalling that he/she attended a 'red brick' university. Since Oxbridge is a virtual concept rather than having substance, nobody can say that they were educated there.

Just my take reflecting my truths - and this thread is about education, is it not?

sorry Bagwan but you are utterly wrong.

Eton is a fantastically academic place due to its very demanding selection process. Gone are the days that it was full of nice but dim sons of British aristocrats. Now it's well represented by Asians of every nationality (and many other nationalities), who are intellectually very able and help to ensure that Eton remains one of the highest achieving schools in the UK.

Oxbridge, what's the big deal about the word? Again this displays your utter lack of understanding. Having attended the Ox part of the word I can assure you that there were no issues about taking the "Oxbridge" entrance exam as that was the exam for all students wishing to attend either university. Whining on about the use of the word Oxbridge is akin to saying that anyone who describes some of the best universities in the US as "Ivy League" must be some envious failure.

perhaps you need to do a smidgin of research yourself before pontificating about something you obviously know very little about.

Edited April 27, 2011 by folium

[soulinchiangmai]

An election around the corner - this appearance of caring is mere hogwash.

Keep them uneducated so they feel so grateful earning 200 baht per day.

That is the agenda - therefore the reality.

[tim armstrong]

Does Abhisit actually live in Thailand and interact with people there? If so this should come as no surprise.

Yes he lives in Thailans but he never went to school here. and he associates with other polititions and army generals, enough said?

Good for Abhisit. Good if he said kids were stupid. About time someone had the balls to challenge the complacency of Thais towards education. A Thai teacher friend of mine told me recently that the real figures for literacy in Thailand show that the majority of Thais read - less than ONE page of a book (any book) per year.

But just as in the UK or Europe or anywhere else 100 years ago, its a dangerous thing to give poor people education. They might even become a democracy movement.

[tombkk]

Did Abhisit really say "I can't believe that our children can be this stupid."?

Does anyone have the quote in Thai?

If he said it in Thai, I would also like to see the original.

The correct sentence will likely have been: "I can't believe our teachers can be this incapable".

And the answer is that the teachers' education is not up to international standard. I don't even blame the teachers, I blame the Ministry of Education for not educating the educators.

[tombkk]

They might want to rethink their "no fail" policy then and make the kids actually work at what they are doing, rather than paying for their "certificates" - i realize that is a "blanket" statement.

no fail policy due to be phased out in 2012, or so I'm told by a very high placed and respected teacher[my wife]

I have never heard of this policy, and I do give F's. That's on tertiary level though, I don't know anything about primary and secondary level.

[midas]

I yesterday bought some groceries at my local convenience store. The total bill came to 157 Baht. Since I only had a 1,000 Baht note and a little small change on me, I thought I'd make it easy for the clerk and handed over the 1,000 Baht note plus 57 Baht in small bills and coins.

Why was I not surprised when she had to deploy her pocket calculator to figure out that she owed me 900 Baht in change?

I just stood there, my mouth agape in utter disbelief.

Ok ...on Monday i was in a 7 /11 store and purchased a large bottle of milk

for 84.50 baht and gave the assistant 100 baht plus the 50 satang.

I could see from her reaction that she was confused by this and anticipated that

i would not be getting back the correct change..........Sure enough i was correct and

I was short changed

Edited April 27, 2011 by midas

[tombkk]

They might want to rethink their "no fail" policy then and make the kids actually work at what they are doing, rather than paying for their "certificates" - i realize that is a "blanket" statement.

Another thing is; in Thailand a teacher is only secure in his/her position as long as the students like that teacher. Poor evaluations by students will result in dismissal of the teacher concerned (I am a student at a Thai uni.). So, the result is that teachers who are lazy and virtually give away A's to all students as well as limit the work-load of students... these are the teachers who can keep their jobs. Professional teacher (lecturers), who expect high performance from students and take no nonsense from them are sacked at the end of the semester.

Being popular is more important than imparting knowledge, the teacher's jobs depend on it.

I was in Israel 10 years ago. They run an 'Ulpan' program, in which students get taught Hebrew in around 3 months. This system works very well, as I saw the results first-hand... however, I am yet to hear of one 'kind' or 'popular' teacher within this system. The teachers were rude, demanding, and completely aloof- yet it works.

Thailand cannot educate kids who have so much power over the job security of teachers.

Well, as a lecturer, I really enjoy the feedback from the students. I do think it is an important lesson for them in terms of fair grading as well as democracy. When I was a student (I'm a farang, but I studied for my MBA here), we did "fire" a teacher (at least we believe we did), and I feel that was necessary. He didn't know his stuff, and on top of that, insulted students with bad language.

For my own students, I give fair grades. That includes the odd F. The grading the students give to me (so I believe) is not about the grade they got, but how fair they think the teacher was, and - in my opinion quite important - how much fun the classes were and whether the students felt the teacher knows his stuff. Learning should be fun, and the students should benefit from the classes, each time. That's my philosophy.

I don't want to disillusion you (as a student) but if you think that grading the teacher is only a response to the grade he gave you, you still have a lot to learn about life. And in my experience, what you say is not the general truth among students, at least not among my students who subscribe to my classes the next term even though I am certainly not the mellow, A-giving type.

I'm an educator, come to me if you want to learn something. If you want to talk to your classmate or chat on your mobile device during class, feel free to get your credits with another teacher and leave my classroom. Welcome to the real world, as after uni, you are on your own. All we, the teachers, can offer you is education. If you don't want it, you can always open a noodle shop. Good luck.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Thanks for the response, I wondered if what I said was not believed. How I found out was I did 2 terms at 2 high schools, I did a little Mr. Bean style (mime stuff) got attention, they loved it and went on to learn a lot, only because they ENJOYED IT. If bored , Thai kids are NOT interested. Doesn't that ring a bell with us at school, not always but the subjects I did well at was with the nice kind teachers, but they knew their job.

This is a reply to lpcustoms #75

Normal, teaching is no more a demonstration of knowledge. It is nowadays " making the students thirsty for learning". However there are still too many old fashioned teachers exerting...it is not easy to modify their behaviors.

Thai students are not different from others. But they have some handicaps: too many children per class, poor management of schools and higher Education Institutions, too many sideline distracting occupations, important absenteism of teachers/lecturers due to extra occupations (example Nakhon Phanom: classes stopped 3 weeks for making the illuminated boats and then two weeks for dismantling and recovery...), too many committees requiring the presence of teachers/lecturers.... and for the Children Thai writing and reading is very absorbing, the other topics are not properly taught.

Also the children collection in the villages takes too long times: in the village of my in laws the children are leaving at 6:30 am and are back at 6:00 pm they spend everyday a couple of hours for going and back to/from the City.

Very weak teachers in the village, so in spite the costs half of the families sends their kids in town... The "trucks" are not comfortable. Children are waiting often one hour in the evening. no proper transportation ....

[tombkk]

I yesterday bought some groceries at my local convenience store. The total bill came to 157 Baht. Since I only had a 1,000 Baht note and a little small change on me, I thought I'd make it easy for the clerk and handed over the 1,000 Baht note plus 57 Baht in small bills and coins.

Why was I not surprised when she had to deploy her pocket calculator to figure out that she owed me 900 Baht in change?

I just stood there, my mouth agape in utter disbelief.

Ok ...on Monday i was in a 7 /11 store and purchased a large bottle of milk

for 84.50 baht and gave the assistant 100 baht plus the 50 satang.

I could see from her reaction that she was confused by this and anticipated that

i would not be getting back the correct change..........Sure enough i was correct and

I was short changed

As they key in the amount received and the cash register shows the change you should get, I doubt that this happened at a 7/11.

[midas]

I yesterday bought some groceries at my local convenience store. The total bill came to 157 Baht. Since I only had a 1,000 Baht note and a little small change on me, I thought I'd make it easy for the clerk and handed over the 1,000 Baht note plus 57 Baht in small bills and coins.

Why was I not surprised when she had to deploy her pocket calculator to figure out that she owed me 900 Baht in change?

I just stood there, my mouth agape in utter disbelief.

Ok ...on Monday i was in a 7 /11 store and purchased a large bottle of milk

for 84.50 baht and gave the assistant 100 baht plus the 50 satang.

I could see from her reaction that she was confused by this and anticipated that

i would not be getting back the correct change..........Sure enough i was correct and

I was short changed

As they key in the amount received and the cash register shows the change you should get, I doubt that this happened at a 7/11.

I remember she wasn't watching any monitor or screen at all after

i gave the money so who knows...... maybe that feature on the cash register wasn't

working on Monday or something.

She was just staring at the contents of the till for what seemed like ages

I didn't mean to confuse her with the 50 satang but i hate getting those thing back in

change which is why i gave it with the 100 baht.

[Richb2004v2]

I find it very hard to even believe that he said this. Surely not.

[tombkk]

As they key in the amount received and the cash register shows the change you should get, I doubt that this happened at a 7/11.

I remember she wasn't watching any monitor or screen at all after

i gave the money so who knows...... maybe that feature on the cash register wasn't

working on Monday or something.

I wager she wasn't stupid, but rather not properly trained. This is a shortcoming of her trainer before putting her in charge of the cash register. You should report this to CP All, the franchisee for 7-11 in thailand.

She was just staring at the contents of the till for what seemed like ages

I didn't mean to confuse her with the 50 satang but i hate getting those thing back in

change which is why i gave it with the 100 baht.

Apart from her trainer, much of the blame also goes to her arithmetics teacher. But then, I blame the Minister of Education for not training teachers properly.

Thai people are not stupid. The Ministry of Education is to blame for not providing adequate education. This has been discussed for decades (literally), and I don't know why no government has ever taken steps to fix this problem. Thailand would benefit so much from a higher level of education of the general population, even the people who have power now.

[phuketdreaming]

"Here's a thought for you; how SMART do you have to be to take a multiple guess test and score zero? You have to know the right answer to avoid choosing it after all."

Too bad Abhisit didn't have your sense of humor when interpreting the test results. I used to have friends that poked fun at multiple choice exams but they were usually the ones not doing well on them because it is designed to be confusing if you don't care to think critically. I think you and I agree that it is not just the system that is the problem. It has much more to do with attitude. With respect to the rest of your dissertation, I'm surprised you didn't mention Einstein, Bill Gates, etc.

I work for a foreign company which employs several hundred Thais along with smaller portion of expats and I can tell you first hand that there is definitely something missing in the education system here in Thailand. If you look at the number of expats still required to hold key positions in order to ensure the company functions properly despite being in the country for dozens of years, it should make one wonder why. I wouldn't encourage mai-pen-rai attitude on this subject because there's many asian nations surpassing Thailand, especially in technology.

[globalmenace]

"As for saying that the American system would not be an improvement is a joke"

The joke is on you, bub. I can get a computer to do what you "graduates from top universities can do" I came up on my wits, could always find beancounters to crunch the numbers, but struggled to find "educated" people who could lead. I hired a lot of engineers from top universities in my time. Not one was a leader who could "make things happen" empty suits all. Wall St is currently full of them.

I love hubris, It makes my life a cake walk.

I too hired a lot of engineers in my career.

I also fired a lot of people. Most of them were like you.

[manarak]

To get zero in a multiple-choice test, you actually have to try pretty dam_n hard.

That said, if academic aptitude and knowledge really started improving across the board, I imagine a few people in positions of authority might begin to get a little nervous...

If the MCT is setup correctly and the student gets negative points for wrong answers, people who reply at random will score zero.

[manarak]

"As for saying that the American system would not be an improvement is a joke"

The joke is on you, bub. I can get a computer to do what you "graduates from top universities can do" I came up on my wits, could always find beancounters to crunch the numbers, but struggled to find "educated" people who could lead. I hired a lot of engineers from top universities in my time. Not one was a leader who could "make things happen" empty suits all. Wall St is currently full of them.

I love hubris, It makes my life a cake walk.

err... the financial crisis is a result of "leaders" leading too much.

Had the banks been led by beancounters with a big personal stake in their bank, the situation would be totally different.

[IvanDobsky]

To get zero in a multiple-choice test, you actually have to try pretty dam_n hard.

That said, if academic aptitude and knowledge really started improving across the board, I imagine a few people in positions of authority might begin to get a little nervous...

If the MCT is setup correctly and the student gets negative points for wrong answers, people who reply at random will score zero.

..and what will your score be if you answer everything with 'c)' ?

[Screws]

Had an electrical college student staying with us. We were doing some house wiring at the time, so asked her if she could ask her teacher what was the correct way to connect active & neutral. She just plain refused to do so. I got the feeling she would have preferred to commit hara kiri than ask a question in class.

Found out about an exhibition of tertiary research - students & unis from all over Thailand. Thought I would have a look. I did find some interesting projects, but it was very difficult to find anybody who could explain them in English.

Mark, you are just as guilty of perpetuating Thailands cultural cringe. Your telling foreign election observers that they are not welcome weakens the results so they are easily questioned by any rabble. An offer to observe Thai elections also implies an invitation to help observe other countries elections, bringing Thailand into the international community. Up to you.

[IvanDobsky]

Not at all surprising. I have two kids in Thai schools, as I am not able to afford an international school. I am appalled at how poor their English skills are, even though they have a native English speaking father. Of course they understand, but their speaking is poor and their reading is very bad. I often wonder what they learn in the schools.

To be honest and this might hurt: you need to spend more time with your kids.

[osiboy]

the biggest problem as i see it is.......... who can/could monitor the teachers ?? , other university educated thais that also paid for a degree ?.......what a shambles !, 95 % are thick ,98% corrupt , the rest are both !!