Abhisit Aghast At Lack Of Knowledge

[Scott]

I don't recall a single University class that I thought was fun. Never had a professor do a song or a dance.

I do remember being stimulated. I do remember being challenged. I do remember classes I thought I wouldn't like, teaching me things that really were new and interesting.

Some of the professors were absolutely boring. A few were eccentric to the point of crazy...but they knew their subject, they loved their subject and they could answer any question thrown at them and if they couldn't, they saw that as an interesting question requiring research.

Fun...didn't happen, but then at that time we had the wonderful world of drugs!

[FOODLOVER]

I don't recall a single University class that I thought was fun. Never had a professor do a song or a dance.

I do remember being stimulated. I do remember being challenged. I do remember classes I thought I wouldn't like, teaching me things that really were new and interesting.

Some of the professors were absolutely boring. A few were eccentric to the point of crazy...but they knew their subject, they loved their subject and they could answer any question thrown at them and if they couldn't, they saw that as an interesting question requiring research.

Fun...didn't happen, but then at that time we had the wonderful world of drugs!

[micksterbs]

I'd love to take Abhisit (disguised) around my last school in Khon Kaen province. I was one of two native-speakers and there were six Thai English teachers. All the English classrooms were on the same floor and we had to walk past the other rooms to get to our own little office. The "lessons" in the Thai teachers' rooms were full of students but invariably minus a teacher. It went something like this; Thai teacher walks in, settles the kids down, takes the register, tells them to open their books to page 94 and do the the first three exercises, says she has an important meeting to go to and be quiet until she gets back. She then toddles back to the air-conditioned staff-room and sits with the other teachers eating som tam and watching television.

Non-teachers amongst you might be forgiven for thinking I'm exagerrating. I'm afraid I'm not.

By the way, we soon realised why the Thai teachers were so "kind" as to give the two of us our own office, well away from theirs...

[Thaddeus]

Fun...didn't happen, but then at that time we had the wonderful world of drugs!

I went to the same school as Magnus Pike, he wasn't drug educed, but he was fun.

Learning a subject doesn't need to be a laugh a minute exercise, but it does need to be enjoyable.

[MaiChai]

I wonder if Abhisit misses the UK? I know I do!

Thais are lousy at maths. The girlfriend is quite well educated but her mental arithmatic is awful. It really shows alot of the time; for example if we are out shopping: while she is still trying to figure out how much we need of something, my mind has already done it.

My opinion: Thais might think they are top dog but the reality is they are still 3rd world and will be for some time to come.

Edited April 30, 2011 by MaiChai

[tombkk]

I don't recall a single University class that I thought was fun. Never had a professor do a song or a dance.

I do remember being stimulated. I do remember being challenged. I do remember classes I thought I wouldn't like, teaching me things that really were new and interesting.

Some of the professors were absolutely boring. A few were eccentric to the point of crazy...but they knew their subject, they loved their subject and they could answer any question thrown at them and if they couldn't, they saw that as an interesting question requiring research.

Fun...didn't happen, but then at that time we had the wonderful world of drugs!

Well, what you describe as being challenged it what I call fun. And the excentric teacher falls into that category as well, because you enjoyed asking questions and enjoyed his being able to answer them. I like my students to ask questions too.

The only thing I disagree with are the drugs. But that is a different discussion and should be dealt wiht in another thread.

[tombkk]

I'd love to take Abhisit (disguised) around my last school in Khon Kaen province. I was one of two native-speakers and there were six Thai English teachers. All the English classrooms were on the same floor and we had to walk past the other rooms to get to our own little office. The "lessons" in the Thai teachers' rooms were full of students but invariably minus a teacher. It went something like this; Thai teacher walks in, settles the kids down, takes the register, tells them to open their books to page 94 and do the the first three exercises, says she has an important meeting to go to and be quiet until she gets back. She then toddles back to the air-conditioned staff-room and sits with the other teachers eating som tam and watching television.

Non-teachers amongst you might be forgiven for thinking I'm exagerrating. I'm afraid I'm not.

By the way, we soon realised why the Thai teachers were so "kind" as to give the two of us our own office, well away from theirs...

I know this is happening on the secondary level but have never experienced in on the tertiary level. Nevertheless, it is part of my campaign to educate the educators, make the teachers able to teach. And create some motivation among the teachers too: How can the students be motivated to learn if their teachers don't lead by example?

Stuff for the Minister of Education to take up.

[Flatouthruthefog]

<br />

<br />I'd love to take Abhisit (disguised) around my last school in Khon Kaen province. I was one of two native-speakers and there were six Thai English teachers. All the English classrooms were on the same floor and we had to walk past the other rooms to get to our own little office. The "lessons" in the Thai teachers' rooms were full of students but invariably minus a teacher. It went something like this; Thai teacher walks in, settles the kids down, takes the register, tells them to open their books to page 94 and do the the first three exercises, says she has an important meeting to go to and be quiet until she gets back. She then toddles back to the air-conditioned staff-room and sits with the other teachers eating som tam and watching television.<br /><br />Non-teachers amongst you might be forgiven for thinking I'm exagerrating. I'm afraid I'm not.<br /><br />By the way, we soon realised why the Thai teachers were so "kind" as to give the two of us our own office, well away from theirs...<br />

<br /><br />I know this is happening on the secondary level but have never experienced in on the tertiary level. Nevertheless, it is part of my campaign to educate the educators, make the teachers able to teach. And create some motivation among the teachers too: How can the students be motivated to learn if their teachers don't lead by example?<br /><br />Stuff for the Minister of Education to take up.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I'm not a teacher, thank God, but I WAS taught to re-read my stuff before submitting it.

'Eccentric'. 'Exaggerating'. '...never experienced in (it?) on the tertiary level....'?!

Your own accuracy would lift your own credibility (already high) even higher.

[whybother]

<br />

<br />I'd love to take Abhisit (disguised) around my last school in Khon Kaen province. I was one of two native-speakers and there were six Thai English teachers. All the English classrooms were on the same floor and we had to walk past the other rooms to get to our own little office. The "lessons" in the Thai teachers' rooms were full of students but invariably minus a teacher. It went something like this; Thai teacher walks in, settles the kids down, takes the register, tells them to open their books to page 94 and do the the first three exercises, says she has an important meeting to go to and be quiet until she gets back. She then toddles back to the air-conditioned staff-room and sits with the other teachers eating som tam and watching television.<br /><br />Non-teachers amongst you might be forgiven for thinking I'm exagerrating. I'm afraid I'm not.<br /><br />By the way, we soon realised why the Thai teachers were so "kind" as to give the two of us our own office, well away from theirs...<br />

<br /><br />I know this is happening on the secondary level but have never experienced in on the tertiary level. Nevertheless, it is part of my campaign to educate the educators, make the teachers able to teach. And create some motivation among the teachers too: How can the students be motivated to learn if their teachers don't lead by example?<br /><br />Stuff for the Minister of Education to take up.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I'm not a teacher, thank God, but I WAS taught to re-read my stuff before submitting it.

'Eccentric'. 'Exaggerating'. '...never experienced in (it?) on the tertiary level....'?!

Your own accuracy would lift your own credibility (already high) even higher.

You're blaming tom for mistakes in the post he quoted? And a single typo? Maybe you should look at your own accuracy.

[Thaddeus]

<br />

<br />I'd love to take Abhisit (disguised) around my last school in Khon Kaen province. I was one of two native-speakers and there were six Thai English teachers. All the English classrooms were on the same floor and we had to walk past the other rooms to get to our own little office. The "lessons" in the Thai teachers' rooms were full of students but invariably minus a teacher. It went something like this; Thai teacher walks in, settles the kids down, takes the register, tells them to open their books to page 94 and do the the first three exercises, says she has an important meeting to go to and be quiet until she gets back. She then toddles back to the air-conditioned staff-room and sits with the other teachers eating som tam and watching television.<br /><br />Non-teachers amongst you might be forgiven for thinking I'm exagerrating. I'm afraid I'm not.<br /><br />By the way, we soon realised why the Thai teachers were so "kind" as to give the two of us our own office, well away from theirs...<br />

<br /><br />I know this is happening on the secondary level but have never experienced in on the tertiary level. Nevertheless, it is part of my campaign to educate the educators, make the teachers able to teach. And create some motivation among the teachers too: How can the students be motivated to learn if their teachers don't lead by example?<br /><br />Stuff for the Minister of Education to take up.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I'm not a teacher, thank God, but I WAS taught to re-read my stuff before submitting it.

'Eccentric'. 'Exaggerating'. '...never experienced in (it?) on the tertiary level....'?!

Your own accuracy would lift your own credibility (already high) even higher.

Those that can, do. Those that can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, pontificate.

[SantiSuk]

I'd love to take Abhisit (disguised) around my last school in Khon Kaen province. I was one of two native-speakers and there were six Thai English teachers. All the English classrooms were on the same floor and we had to walk past the other rooms to get to our own little office. The "lessons" in the Thai teachers' rooms were full of students but invariably minus a teacher. It went something like this; Thai teacher walks in, settles the kids down, takes the register, tells them to open their books to page 94 and do the the first three exercises, says she has an important meeting to go to and be quiet until she gets back. She then toddles back to the air-conditioned staff-room and sits with the other teachers eating som tam and watching television.

Non-teachers amongst you might be forgiven for thinking I'm exagerrating. I'm afraid I'm not.

By the way, we soon realised why the Thai teachers were so "kind" as to give the two of us our own office, well away from theirs...

I'd love to take him round the one in our Si Saket province neighbourhood. He's bright enough to spot that there are very few pupils and to ask the questions that would quickly reveal all the parents who care scrimp and save to send their kids 20clicks away instead. The local school principal steals all the school's money for his own personal use, so the teachers are rubbish and the facilities are run down. No wonder that Issaan kids understand corruption as part of Thai culture from an early age.

[B Fuddled]

To get zero in a multiple-choice test, you actually have to try pretty dam_n hard.

They were taught the wrong answers. First, educate the educators.

I worked for 10 yrs with MOE.

[hyperdimension]

Just give the students a tablet PC each?

[tombkk]

Just give the students a tablet PC each?

As a matter of fact, my university is doing just that. It's a marketing gimmick and has nothing to do with the quality of the teachers - or the subject of this thread.

[Oberkommando]

Without Iodine deficiency Thais would have the highest IQ in the World, even without teachers.

[Thaddeus]

Without Iodine deficiency Thais would have the highest IQ in the World, even without teachers.

Unlikely, just having correct iodine intake does not set your IQ level, other factors are involved.

[SAffer]

Well, as a lecturer, I really enjoy the feedback from the students. I do think it is an important lesson for them in terms of fair grading as well as democracy. When I was a student (I'm a farang, but I studied for my MBA here), we did "fire" a teacher (at least we believe we did), and I feel that was necessary. He didn't know his stuff, and on top of that, insulted students with bad language.

For my own students, I give fair grades. That includes the odd F. The grading the students give to me (so I believe) is not about the grade they got, but how fair they think the teacher was, and - in my opinion quite important - how much fun the classes were and whether the students felt the teacher knows his stuff. Learning should be fun, and the students should benefit from the classes, each time. That's my philosophy.

I don't want to disillusion you (as a student) but if you think that grading the teacher is only a response to the grade he gave you, you still have a lot to learn about life. And in my experience, what you say is not the general truth among students, at least not among my students who subscribe to my classes the next term even though I am certainly not the mellow, A-giving type.

I'm an educator, come to me if you want to learn something. If you want to talk to your classmate or chat on your mobile device during class, feel free to get your credits with another teacher and leave my classroom. Welcome to the real world, as after uni, you are on your own. All we, the teachers, can offer you is education. If you don't want it, you can always open a noodle shop. Good luck.

I have seen 2 lecturers get the sack from my Uni here in Thailand as a result of expecting students to actually learn something.

Firstly, I studied Law back home, and here in Thailand I had to do a Tax Law course as part of my studies. Having already completed the basic Thai Law course in the previous year, I was expecting the usual crap; easy to pass without learning. The Tax Law lecturer was magnificent; he is a prominent Tax Lawyer (well a partner in a reputable firm anyway), and very well qualified and knowledgable. The Thai students complained that he speaks too fast, and the concepts are too difficult to understand.

Fun is part of learning at tertiary level??

I suppose you also let the weak students get free grades by doing 'group' presentations and reports??

I completely disagree that fun has any place in the lecture hall. If the students are interested in learning they should go to class, if they want to have fun- go to the beach.

May I ask if you also lectured in the west?

Fun is part of learning at any level. If things are difficult, it is the teacher's job to make them interesting.

Point in case: There is nothing more boring than accounting (in my humble opinion). And yet, I have experienced a teacher who made it fun to come to class and learn this stuff.

If you think that fun has no place in tertiary education, I hope that you are not a university lecturer. And no, it does not mean to let the weak student pass, it just means that you don't know how to teach and make your classes interesting. In fact, I hope that you are not a teacher, I would feel sorry for the students.

I will state again: I am a student, not a teacher.

Sir, your last comment borders on personal, and I think you are trying to hide the fact that you are no more than a so-called teacher in Thailand, but not a lecturer or professor of substance.

Do you have tertiary lecturing experience in a developed country?

[SAffer]

I have seen 2 lecturers get the sack from my Uni here in Thailand as a result of expecting students to actually learn something.

Firstly, I studied Law back home, and here in Thailand I had to do a Tax Law course as part of my studies. Having already completed the basic Thai Law course in the previous year, I was expecting the usual crap; easy to pass without learning. The Tax Law lecturer was magnificent; he is a prominent Tax Lawyer (well a partner in a reputable firm anyway), and very well qualified and knowledgable. The Thai students complained that he speaks too fast, and the concepts are too difficult to understand.

Fun is part of learning at tertiary level??

I suppose you also let the weak students get free grades by doing 'group' presentations and reports??

I completely disagree that fun has any place in the lecture hall. If the students are interested in learning they should go to class, if they want to have fun- go to the beach.

May I ask if you also lectured in the west?

I don't doubt that teachers can get the sack if the students complain. That's the same all over the world, and it is the dean's job to consider wisely whether the students complain because he is a bad teacher or because they just don't want to work hard. It depends on the university whether they want many students or whether they want a good reputation. You will know that unis in Thailand, well probably in every coutry in the workd, have different reputations.

Fun is part of learning at any level. I am glad I was never your student. Students don't come to have fun, but lecturers do have an obligation to make the class interesting. Does your lectures consist of reading slides?

I have studied at different universities in my life.

Here in Thailand the universities usually rely on revenue from tuition, not research grants to make ends meet.

So, he who pays the band calls the tune matey.

[Tokay]

At least PM Abhisit and I agree on something.

I've spent quite a but of time in various places around the world, a lot of developing nations, and I've never encountered the lack of simple logic and basic understanding of pretty much everything, as I encounter almost daily in Thailand. They need a complete overhaul in their education system and thought process, or lack thereof.

[hyperdimension]

Just give the students a tablet PC each?

As a matter of fact, my university is doing just that. It's a marketing gimmick and has nothing to do with the quality of the teachers - or the subject of this thread.

Did you miss the Pheu Thai Party Offers Tablets To Thai Students thread? It's Pheu Thai's attempt to fix the problem that Abhisit is aghast about, so it is very relevant to this thread.

[tombkk]

Just give the students a tablet PC each?

As a matter of fact, my university is doing just that. It's a marketing gimmick and has nothing to do with the quality of the teachers - or the subject of this thread.

Did you miss the Pheu Thai Party Offers Tablets To Thai Students thread? It's Pheu Thai's attempt to fix the problem that Abhisit is aghast about, so it is very relevant to this thread.

Yes, I missed that thread, thanks for posting the link. Apparently, they are using it as a marketing gimmick as well (let's see whether they'll really deliver the gadgets, though).

Google for "digital divide" to find out why they are doing this. I for one am all in favour of every person having access to the internet if they want it.

Edited May 3, 2011 by tombkk

[Thaddeus]

I for one am all in favour of every person having access to the internet if they want it.

Want is a big word, I am all in favour of everyone having access to the internet, if it benefits them and their family.

[Rumpole]

To get zero in a multiple-choice test, you actually have to try pretty dam_n hard.

Indeed. Experiments have shown that a chimp can get 20 to 25% on these types of tests.

That said, if academic aptitude and knowledge really started improving across the board, I imagine a few people in positions of authority might begin to get a little nervous...

Ain't it the truth ..

I can't believe that our children can be this stupid.

Better increase the iodine dosage in the water supply!

In a separate event yesterday, academics called on universities to take the country's ongoing educational reform seriously.

The reform is into its second decade.

Thailand. Hub of higher education. Not.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Rumpole

[micksterbs]

<br />

<br />I'd love to take Abhisit (disguised) around my last school in Khon Kaen province. I was one of two native-speakers and there were six Thai English teachers. All the English classrooms were on the same floor and we had to walk past the other rooms to get to our own little office. The "lessons" in the Thai teachers' rooms were full of students but invariably minus a teacher. It went something like this; Thai teacher walks in, settles the kids down, takes the register, tells them to open their books to page 94 and do the the first three exercises, says she has an important meeting to go to and be quiet until she gets back. She then toddles back to the air-conditioned staff-room and sits with the other teachers eating som tam and watching television.<br /><br />Non-teachers amongst you might be forgiven for thinking I'm exagerrating. I'm afraid I'm not.<br /><br />By the way, we soon realised why the Thai teachers were so "kind" as to give the two of us our own office, well away from theirs...<br />

<br /><br />I know this is happening on the secondary level but have never experienced in on the tertiary level. Nevertheless, it is part of my campaign to educate the educators, make the teachers able to teach. And create some motivation among the teachers too: How can the students be motivated to learn if their teachers don't lead by example?<br /><br />Stuff for the Minister of Education to take up.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I'm not a teacher, thank God, but I WAS taught to re-read my stuff before submitting it.

'Eccentric'. 'Exaggerating'. '...never experienced in (it?) on the tertiary level....'?!

Your own accuracy would lift your own credibility (already high) even higher.

Hmm, often get that one wrong, damnit.

Won't lose much sleep over it however...

[tombkk]

I for one am all in favour of every person having access to the internet if they want it.

Want is a big word, I am all in favour of everyone having access to the internet, if it benefits them and their family.

OK, that sounds better indeed.

[Pawpcorn]

Well as lecturer i would like your comment on a subject that i think was mentioned

earlier in this thread. That is how often are students allowed to say " why " or even

more so - " i disagree " ! ?

I was watching a 2006 movie the other day called " The History Boys ". Have you seen it?

I recommend it ( here is the link :- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0464049/ )

It is about a headmaster who is determined to coach an unruly group of 8 boys in a Sheffield school

so the can get into Oxford or Cambridge and it is fascinating to listen to the dialogue between the teachers

and the pupils. In particular regarding the skills of critical analysis to help them with

their pre- entry " interviews " .

Do you see this critical analysis in Thai schools and Universities and if not why not ?

I SO agree with what you point out here...

I teach English to ALL ages... and it's AMAZING how DIFFICULT it is to get ANY AGE student to raise their HAND {even!} !!!

And this is when I'm doing a class vote on this or that... where clearly 100% is the intended number!!! It takes two or three tries before I can get the 100%... and I even have to show some students that they actually have to RAISE their arm up ALL THE WAY, to be "raise their arm".

Always unbelievable to me... stay invisible, don't get noticed, don't ask questions, etc. has CLEARLY become the method of survival, for these kids and adults.

You have to wonder just WHAT the punishments have been, for anyone BEING noticed, ASKING questions, or the UNTHINKABLE, actually asking "WHY?"

I mean, really, many of us farangs, wondering why creative or analytical thinking is virtually absent in this country...???? These talents most certainly DIE, prior to the death of all the above (apparently forbidden) actions, yes?

I challenge this student {non}thinking by having the conversation parts of my classes go like this: A student will answer some simple question... and I'll ask "Why?" and after the shocked expression passes, and they come up with some answer, I'll ask "Why?" and we play this game until there is... "No Why!"

But it's fun, and funny for the students... they clearly NEVER get led down this path... and it's also clearly a NEW way of looking at things.

Whether or not much of it survives beyond my classroom...??? Hard to say. Maybe for some, it will expand their consciousness a bit, and for others it will just be a memory of "that strange farang teacher" and little more.

Mai pen rai... Koh-jai, laew!

PS: Thanks for the tip about the movie!!!! I'm downloading it NOW!!

Edited May 5, 2011 by Pawpcorn

[trisailer]

I was the worse grade school student ever. Never got even a C because my teachers were crap. Worse than anything I've ever heard in Thailand. In 5th grade I baffled everyone by making all A's. I did it because I had a teacher that could reach me and motivate me. In college I worked my tail off and graduated with a B average because I wanted to.

I have a friend who teaches here at an international school and he dosen't seem to have a problem with his students. There are hundreds of examples of kids doing 180's with the "right" teacher.

Those who can't do; teach. that's the problem.

[dumball]

'trisailer' timestamp='1304582946' post='4402874']

I was the worse grade school student ever. Never got even a C because my teachers were crap. Worse than anything I've ever heard in Thailand. In 5th grade I baffled everyone by making all A's. I did it because I had a teacher that could reach me and motivate me. In college I worked my tail off and graduated with a B average because I wanted to.

I have a friend who teaches here at an international school and he dosen't seem to have a problem with his students. There are hundreds of examples of kids doing 180's with the "right" teacher.

Those who can't do; teach. that's the problem.

I can agree to a certain point with what you have written , but one thing you did not manage to learn is the fact that no one can teach you anything unless you have the will and intent to learn , they can only introduce you to their knowledge at hand , as to those that cannot do , teach , is that somewhat along the same lines as ' You can lead a horse to water______________'

[tombkk]

I was the worse grade school student ever. Never got even a C because my teachers were crap. Worse than anything I've ever heard in Thailand. In 5th grade I baffled everyone by making all A's. I did it because I had a teacher that could reach me and motivate me. In college I worked my tail off and graduated with a B average because I wanted to.

I have a friend who teaches here at an international school and he dosen't seem to have a problem with his students. There are hundreds of examples of kids doing 180's with the "right" teacher.

Those who can't do; teach. that's the problem.

As "dumball" just mentioned, it takes two to tango. But I agree, many teachers don't make the effort to motivate their students, but in a large class with 30 or more individuals, that's also not always possible. A child often does not understand their responsibility, so it's a double burden on the teacher - and that's why I only teach on university level. I don't think I'm strong enough <g> for primary or secondary school teaching.

As for those who said that "those who can't do, teach" (I know you changed the meaning on purpose, so I don't mean you): My dayjob is running my own company, which has been growing steadily. I am "only" a guest lecturer, teaching once a week. So, most of the time I "do", and since I feel I should share my knowledge with the young generation, once a week I "teach". I enjoy that tremendously, and I hope my students do to a certain degree too.

[atyclb]

Much of the national edu system does not train the mind to think, discourages debate/participation and when you factor in a multitude of social rules for politeness it is like a crippling blow to cognition. Then, the very real iodine deficiency issue further stymies whatever thinking abilities may be left.

This system is self perpetuating as students become the teachers etc etc. The most very basic critical/analytical thinking abilities are simply undeveloped and may explain why so so many people walk very haphazardly. Daily, repeatedly, people walk into you, walk into eath other, walk into the path of others, stop for no reason and obstruct others trying to walk. Walking while checking sms messages with no awareness of other pedestrians. All these things don't happen without a reason.