Thailand Pulls Out Of Planned Ceasefire Talks With Cambodia

[webfact]

Thailand pulls out of truce talks with Cambodia

by Janesara Fugal

PHANOM DONG RAK, April 27, 2011 (AFP) - Thailand pulled out of planned ceasefire talks with Cambodia Wednesday in a setback to efforts to end heavy border fighting that has left 14 people dead, including one civilian.

Hopes of a truce had grown after the two countries announced a day earlier that their defence ministers would meet for discussions aimed at ending the bloodiest clashes on their disputed jungle frontier in decades.

But Thailand said early Wednesday that its Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwon would not travel to Cambodia for talks with his counterpart Tea Banh after all.

"We decided last night to cancel General Prawit's trip to Phnom Penh today after some Cambodia media reported Thailand agreed to ceasefire talks after it admitted defeat and losses," said army spokesman Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd.

The two nations traded fresh accusations about the breakdown in diplomatic overtures.

"Thailand isn't honest about wanting to reach a permanent ceasefire," Cambodian government spokesman Phay Siphan said in Phnom Penh.

Eight Cambodian and five Thai troops have died in five days of heavy weapons fire along their shared border, prompting growing diplomatic pressure on the neighbours to end the conflict.

Sunsern said one Thai civilian had also been killed -- the first in the current bout of bloodshed.

Both sides have accused each other of starting the clashes.

"We welcome talks on the condition that they stop firing first for a few days. We clearly informed Cambodia of this condition," Sunsern said.

On Tuesday the fighting spread along the border to the 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple, which has been the focus of strained relations between the neighbours since it was granted UN World Heritage status in 2008.

That area had been relatively calm for two months and is 150 kilometres (90 miles) east of two other disputed temple complexes that have been the scene of fierce fighting since Friday.

In February 10 people were killed near the Preah Vihear temple, prompting a UN appeal for a permanent ceasefire.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Monday urged Thailand and Cambodia to show restraint and said Washington was "deeply concerned".

The neighbours agreed in late February to allow observers from Indonesia into the area near Preah Vihear.

But the Thai military has since said the monitors are not welcome and they have not been deployed.

Thai Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya said on Tuesday that Bangkok would review its policy towards Cambodia including trade, border checkpoints and cooperation at all levels, but would not sever diplomatic ties.

Kasit is due to hold talks with Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa, whose country is the current chair of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations regional bloc, on Thursday in Jakarta.

"Thailand will inform him that Thailand agrees to international observers but Cambodian troops must withdraw from Preah Vihear," Thai government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn said.

The World Court ruled in 1962 that the temple belonged to Cambodia, but both countries claim ownership of a 4.6-square-kilometre (1.8-square-mile) surrounding area.

Tens of thousands of villagers from both sides have fled the recent fighting.

Cambodia has accused Thailand of using spy planes and poisonous gas in the recent fighting -- which Bangkok has strongly denied.

The fighting comes at a sensitive political time for Thailand, with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva preparing to dissolve the lower house of parliament soon for elections he has said will be held by early July.

Abhisit said on Tuesday that the clashes would not derail his poll plan.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-04-27

[sjjmmi]

Amazing Thailand

[anotheruser]

Well now we know which side doesn't want to stop shooting at least.

[janverbeem]

We will talk about a cease fire on the condition that you cease fire first,but since you ceased fire already there is no need to talk about cease fire so maybe better we just cease the negotiations.

[Steely Dan]

Well that's the least surprised I've been all year. Of course Thailand is running with the ball now that scores are dying every day in several middle eastern Countries so this little spat hardly registers.

P.S For whoever piously lectured us falang about not understanding face and mis-labelling this as an issue of face I can only but quote the following lines from the OT.

"We decided last night to cancel General Prawit (Wongsuwon's) trip to Phnom Penh today after some Cambodia media reported Thailand agreed to ceasefire talks after it admitted defeat and losses," said Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd.

[kuffki]

I do not know what is scarier, the fact that defense minister thinks it's the right thing to do. Or the fact that this kind of person is a defense minister.

Just seems the only thing they do is think of ways how to fck up the country.

Yellow, red, army, now the government itself.

[Mugg]

RIP soldiers...

Courage, above all things, is the first quality of a warrior.

Karl Von Clausewitz

[asdecas]

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Ricardo]

Does Thailand even have spy-planes, as alleged by Cambodia, I thought the blimp was it ? And poison-gas, nah, just someone frying-up some pork-with-garlic for the troops' dinner !

I know it suits Hun Sen, to have an external-enemy to distract his people, but he might keep it believable at-least !

Hope it ends quickly, before any more people get hurt.

[BoonToong]

But the Thai military has since said the monitors are not welcome and they have not been deployed.

Why would monitors not be welcome? Only reason I can think of is that they might see something that someone does not want them to see.

[DocHolliday]

it is beyond my understanding that posters are able to post smilies as reply (OP) to one of the most serious issues Thailand has ever faced in the last 30ys. I am deeply concerned and so are thousands along the border. A war with Cambodia will affect us all, even the members who think it's something very funny.... It is not - it is dead serious.

Edited April 27, 2011 by DocHolliday

[sangfroid]

As Winston Churchill once said about peace talks:- "It's better to jaw jaw than war war"

[FOODLOVER]

Face is more important than lives? I'm shocked

[anotheruser]

I know it suits Hun Sen, to have an external-enemy to distract his people, but he might keep it believable at-least !

It also suits the current Thai government to let this conflict go to postpone elections or house dissolution or whatever.

[draftvader]

But the Thai military has since said the monitors are not welcome and they have not been deployed.

Why would monitors not be welcome? Only reason I can think of is that they might see something that someone does not want them to see.

Like poisonous gas.....or spy planes?

[Thailand]

TIT

[anotheruser]

TIT

Well said. LOL

[phuketrichard]

this seems to keep cropping up every few months, things get better than....

there is something going on that none of us are aware of and it can not be good for anyone on either side.

[FrankieDimes]

it is beyond my understanding that posters are able to post smilies as reply (OP) to one of the most serious issues Thailand has ever faced in the last 30ys. I am deeply concerned and so are thousands along the border. A war with Cambodia will affect us all, even the members who think it's something very funny.... It is not - it is dead serious.

Doc Holliday,

I have no comment concerning posting smiley faces. But I do have a comment concerning your statement: 'one of the most serious issues Thailand has ever faced in the last 30ys.' Thailand has chosen and continue to choose a path of violence to resolve the border dispute. What they don't understand is, after innocent life have been lost in Thailand and Cambodia, and thousands of people have been displaced to the point of an humanitarian crisis; the international community is going to step in tell them where the border lines is and enforce there decision. I can tell you right now, Thailand will have no parts of that temple which has already been awarded to Cambodia. The international community will not allow Thailand to take it be force.

Even if the Thai army over-ran the Cambodian army tomorrow and pushed them and all there people back to Phnom Pehn the international community will order Thailand right back out to where they are today if not out further. I am not hating on Thailand, I am simply stating a fact. The same holds true, that if a stronger nation was to attack Thailand and occupy it's land the international community would run to Thailands aid and push the occupiers out!

With that said, I don't know why Thailand resist multination talks to resolve this issues. It is obvious that Thailand and Cambodia will never resolve this issue alone.

[seriouseats]

it is beyond my understanding that posters are able to post smilies as reply (OP) to one of the most serious issues Thailand has ever faced in the last 30ys. I am deeply concerned and so are thousands along the border. A war with Cambodia will affect us all, even the members who think it's something very funny.... It is not - it is dead serious.

Doc Holliday,

I have no comment concerning posting smiley faces. But I do have a comment concerning your statement: 'one of the most serious issues Thailand has ever faced in the last 30ys.' Thailand has chosen and continue to choose a path of violence to resolve the border dispute. What they don't understand is, after innocent life have been lost in Thailand and Cambodia, and thousands of people have been displaced to the point of an humanitarian crisis; the international community is going to step in tell them where the border lines is and enforce there decision. I can tell you right now, Thailand will have no parts of that temple which has already been awarded to Cambodia. The international community will not allow Thailand to take it be force.

Even if the Thai army over-ran the Cambodian army tomorrow and pushed them and all there people back to Phnom Pehn the international community will order Thailand right back out to where they are today if not out further. I am not hating on Thailand, I am simply stating a fact. The same holds true, that if a stronger nation was to attack Thailand and occupy it's land the international community would run to Thailands aid and push the occupiers out!

With that said, I don't know why Thailand resist multination talks to resolve this issues. It is obvious that Thailand and Cambodia will never resolve this issue alone.

Try explaining that to a country full of people fighting for a temple that promotes selflessness, lack of material possession and love and respect of yourself and others.. When the people who want it the most are the complete opposite.. Corrupted , rich destroying money hungry politicians who will crush any lives to buy a new honda city for their daughter to kill more lemmings with.

It's like trying to explain the fat personal trainer at fat camp(wearing a bra and a corset to deceive) that he can't have his chocolate bar tonight.

[dunkin2012]

Thai FM .................... is so incapable of handling the conflict......

how long Taksin have been on the run?...... He ain't doin' anything much for the post.... whatta waste!...

a few years ago, he abused The Myanmar military regime to please his fathers in the Asean summit in Lombok, Indo.

in return the Myanmar got very angry...

this proves that he is lack of knowledge..in International affair.. ... ... ...

now..... make it possible for the border conflict with the Cambodian

below is what he said during the meeting in ROMBOK.....

"ASEAN forum served as an agency to discuss the Korean conflict"

Edited April 27, 2011 by dunkin2012

[rogerdee123]

Does Thailand even have spy-planes, as alleged by Cambodia, I thought the blimp was it ? And poison-gas, nah, just someone frying-up some pork-with-garlic for the troops' dinner !

I know it suits Hun Sen, to have an external-enemy to distract his people, but he might keep it believable at-least !

Hope it ends quickly, before any more people get hurt.

In the border conflict which Thailand had with Laos in the mid-1980's, which by the way was more bloody than either side has ever admitted ..... Lao soldiers shot down at least one "spy plane". Granted it wasn't as sophisticated as the predators that have become infamous in the current wars in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, etc etc. etc etc etc ... and it looked to be a larger than usual (carrying a camera) remote control plane that enthusiasts use as a hobby. But the short answer to "Does Thailand have spy planes?" is .... "Yes".

Regarding the poison gas issue .... cannon shells carrying CS and other such non-lethal "gas" are quite common with almost every army. Normally these aren't considered "poison". But usually these shells are what people are describing as "poison".

[bbradsby]

it is beyond my understanding that posters are able to post smilies as reply (OP) to one of the most serious issues Thailand has ever faced in the last 30ys. I am deeply concerned and so are thousands along the border. A war with Cambodia will affect us all, even the members who think it's something very funny.... It is not - it is dead serious.

Doc Holliday,

I have no comment concerning posting smiley faces. But I do have a comment concerning your statement: 'one of the most serious issues Thailand has ever faced in the last 30ys.' Thailand has chosen and continue to choose a path of violence to resolve the border dispute. What they don't understand is, after innocent life have been lost in Thailand and Cambodia, and thousands of people have been displaced to the point of an humanitarian crisis; the international community is going to step in tell them where the border lines is and enforce there decision. I can tell you right now, Thailand will have no parts of that temple which has already been awarded to Cambodia. The international community will not allow Thailand to take it be force.

Even if the Thai army over-ran the Cambodian army tomorrow and pushed them and all there people back to Phnom Pehn the international community will order Thailand right back out to where they are today if not out further. I am not hating on Thailand, I am simply stating a fact. The same holds true, that if a stronger nation was to attack Thailand and occupy it's land the international community would run to Thailands aid and push the occupiers out!

With that said, I don't know why Thailand resist multination talks to resolve this issues. It is obvious that Thailand and Cambodia will never resolve this issue alone.

I believe this is quite naive. Borders are shoved forcibly around periodically, Israel has been actively doing so for decades to expand their territory. China vs. Tibet, etc, etc. Whether the international 'community' steps in depends on strategic alliances & interests, as well as the perceived abilities to actually succeed in forcing an aggressor back into its previous boundaries. Often times it doesn't happen.

There appears to be a chess game going on, with the elder Hun Sen consistently out-maneuvering schoolboy Abhisit lately. Its to Hun Sen's advantage to bring in the UN/ASEAN for border/temple disputes, as its historically been a winner for Cambodia against a more powerful opponent. Hun Sen knows that alone, Thailand will beat him and gain the upper hand in the border disputes, so he flares up a skirmish every few months, blames Thailand for starting it, and then cries out to the UN for help against the bully next door. Very smart, actually, even if lacking in ethics.

[sangfroid]

Those second hand submarines will come in handy to blockade Sihanoukville! Was a supply of torpedoes part of the deal??

[Markaew]

this seems to keep cropping up every few months, things get better than....

there is something going on that none of us are aware of and it can not be good for anyone on either side.

I agree, nothing good happening, but useful for the present Thai leaders.

This is a ploy governments use to stay in power. They want a conflict because people have a tendency not to change leaders during times of conflict or war. Clinton did the same by jumping into Iraq just before his reelection and then pulled out after after the election. "Tail Wagging the Dog"

[random]

I remember a comment last year by Suthep, before he allowed the army to go on their murderous rampage through bangkok, it was an issue being discussed between the govt and the reds, and the comment was along the lines of 'the matter is resolved and nobody has lost face'. This is the deputy pm and his aim during a negotiation was not about what was right or wrong for the people, it was simply about not losing face, it seems the first thought in anything here is how to not lose face.

[JackSterling]

This last post said it all..

Edited April 27, 2011 by JackSterling

[SanSaiExPat]

it is beyond my understanding that posters are able to post smilies as reply (OP) to one of the most serious issues Thailand has ever faced in the last 30ys. I am deeply concerned and so are thousands along the border. A war with Cambodia will affect us all, even the members who think it's something very funny.... It is not - it is dead serious.

Doc Holliday,

I have no comment concerning posting smiley faces. But I do have a comment concerning your statement: 'one of the most serious issues Thailand has ever faced in the last 30ys.' Thailand has chosen and continue to choose a path of violence to resolve the border dispute. What they don't understand is, after innocent life have been lost in Thailand and Cambodia, and thousands of people have been displaced to the point of an humanitarian crisis; the international community is going to step in tell them where the border lines is and enforce there decision. I can tell you right now, Thailand will have no parts of that temple which has already been awarded to Cambodia. The international community will not allow Thailand to take it be force.

Even if the Thai army over-ran the Cambodian army tomorrow and pushed them and all there people back to Phnom Pehn the international community will order Thailand right back out to where they are today if not out further. I am not hating on Thailand, I am simply stating a fact. The same holds true, that if a stronger nation was to attack Thailand and occupy it's land the international community would run to Thailands aid and push the occupiers out!

With that said, I don't know why Thailand resist multination talks to resolve this issues. It is obvious that Thailand and Cambodia will never resolve this issue alone.

I believe this is quite naive. Borders are shoved forcibly around periodically, Israel has been actively doing so for decades to expand their territory. China vs. Tibet, etc, etc. Whether the international 'community' steps in depends on strategic alliances & interests, as well as the perceived abilities to actually succeed in forcing an aggressor back into its previous boundaries. Often times it doesn't happen.

There appears to be a chess game going on, with the elder Hun Sen consistently out-maneuvering schoolboy Abhisit lately. Its to Hun Sen's advantage to bring in the UN/ASEAN for border/temple disputes, as its historically been a winner for Cambodia against a more powerful opponent. Hun Sen knows that alone, Thailand will beat him and gain the upper hand in the border disputes, so he flares up a skirmish every few months, blames Thailand for starting it, and then cries out to the UN for help against the bully next door. Very smart, actually, even if lacking in ethics.

Well said Mr. BBradsby. If the "international community" were so effective and powerful we wouldn't have Kadafi in Libya or issues in Syria.

[rubl]

I remember a comment last year by Suthep, before he allowed the army to go on their murderous rampage through bangkok, it was an issue being discussed between the govt and the reds, and the comment was along the lines of 'the matter is resolved and nobody has lost face'. This is the deputy pm and his aim during a negotiation was not about what was right or wrong for the people, it was simply about not losing face, it seems the first thought in anything here is how to not lose face.

Nice post, but for the totally uncalled for 'allowed the army to go on their murderous rampage through bangkok'. You've been reading too many of Robert A.'s reports methinks.

Edited April 27, 2011 by rubl

[anterian]

I am constantly puzzled by the assumption of most writers that in an all out war Thailand would win. I disagree, any all out war would rapidly evolve into a war of attrition, of multiple clashes in jungle and mountain terrain. As the Americans found out in Vietnam and Korea, technologically advanced weapons cannot defeat agile and motivated foot soldiers. Thailand might be able to destroy towns and cities, but they would not be able to occupy territory, particularly with home grown enemies in the south, the northeast, plus the thousands of resident Cambodians in their country.

Even worse Myanmar might decide to expand while the RTA was preoccupied.