Thailand Elite Card Closes Down To The Tunes Of 2.5 Billion Baht

[MAJIC]

For the thoughtful Expats amongst us,it was always designed as just another Scam, to add to many others!

[SGD]

With a trip back home costing perhaps Bt100,000 around the bottom end, someone with 10 years to go until they were 50 could mathematically justify buying it simply for 10 years of visas. The transport was only valid if you lived in Bangkok and golf and spas were Bangkok centric also.

I'm sad it came to this but not surprised.

What annoyed me somewhat was the attitude of some card holders who seemed to begin to think they had been suckered but who wanted to defend the rapidly reducing benefits to the last with ever more silly arguments.

[Arkady]

I don't understand one detail of the original news report...

Why does the govt. need 2 billion baht to "pay up" registered capital in the company that's essentially going out of business?

Since the company is being shut down, what's the purpose of paying up capital?

Or, is that just a clever way of saying, we've still got some Thai VIPs who haven't finished poking their hands into the Elite Card cookie jar???

In a sense you are probably correct. However, although the reports are muddled this sounds like a legal procedure. The government shareholders of the company no doubt never injected all the capital they pledged to pay for their shares. It may have had a partially paid share structure, e.g. 100 baht per share but only 10 baht paid up front with the balance to be paid in installments that were never paid. In such a case the shareholders are liable to pay up the balance of their pledged share payments in bankruptcy proceedings and the court can seize their assets and sell at public auction if they don't. I would imagine that Krung Thai Bank and/or other government controlled banks were forced to lend the company money to cover the shortfall of the paid up capital and other liabilities. A lot of people made a lot of money out of the Elite Card fiasco. On the one hand paying up the B2.5bn will help pay for more mansions and overseas educations for the brats of low paid government officials. On the other, not paying it up will expose bad debts and corruption when the lenders are investigated for making bad loans. I don't think any of this B2.5bn is really ear marked to pay compensation for Elite Card holders. After 5-8 years using the card, it will be argued that the purchase cost is almost fully amortized which is actually a reasonable premise in accounting terms. An auditor would probably accept 5-year amortization for something like this that is an obligation of limited company known to have high debt and minimal cashflow and subject to political whims. 5 years amortization would be like to depreciation on a leasehold improvement or IT investment.

[Oberkommando]

Even if they cancel the Elite Card

and I have to look for other ways to stay here, I got many many years

of painless immigration and no headaches of trying to cheat my way

through the Thai Legal system. I still have some years before I turn

50 and hope they will let us keep the visas instead of the refunds ...

If you were clever enough you could have achieved that without spending such amounts of money on the Elite Card.

I have managed it perfectly legally for the last 10 years, I am still under 50 and have spent a minimal amount to do so.

[leoalex]

Any idea how Thai Elite members can keep in contact if shit hits the fan?

I for one enjoy the convenience and found the Elite Card as a way of not having to "cheat the system". I've seen how the visa policy have changed over the years and you might say the card was never 100% sure, but how about all the 30 day'ers if they should get even stricter on this policy... and why shouldn't they?

I don't stay here permanently but usually more than 30 days at the time, never have a return ticket when I arrive, do not work here, not married here, don't have time to apply for visa before arriving each time, in my 30's, don't travel 1st class, so there was several good reasons to become a member... free golf was never one of them... It was never meant as an investment either as many suggest... A one time payment for not having to worry about it, which I can't say they quite lived up to taking the past couple of years into consideration.

They could re-name it "Farang Kee Nok" and I would still want to be a member.

Even doing yearly O visas, for those eligible, there would be quite some cost over 30 years or so... and time is money... Orchard Road every year is too much for me...

sholaisen

This is really amazing. This should be about How Thai government is

going to handle this mess, but no, it seems to be mostly a envy driven

"i told you so" wise crack thread.

Why do people think that the Elita Card holders didn't assume they will

get screwed sooner or later ? Why do all the not haves think that the

Elita Card holders are stupid ?

Go back to the 50 baht value breakfast hunts, and don't worry about

other peoples financial situations. Even if they cancel the Elite Card

and I have to look for other ways to stay here, I got many many years

of painless immigration and no headaches of trying to cheat my way

through the Thai Legal system. I still have some years before I turn

50 and hope they will let us keep the visas instead of the refunds ...

Cheers,

rudi

Me too!!! I am under 50, and the card was one hassle free way to live here. I never used their spa/golf privileges and I do not consider myself "elite" although I do consider myself lucky enough to be able to afford the convenience. I hope they will retain the visa benefit, well at least till I turn 50 anyway. The money is not as important as the visa in my case. But the entire episode does leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

I know forum where near 20 elite members, temembers dot com. Most important to stay in contact now.

[Buchholz]

Any idea how Thai Elite members can keep in contact if shit hits the fan?

I know forum where near 20 elite members, temembers dot com. Most important to stay in contact now.

There's likely five or more times that number right here at Thaivisa :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&section=search&do=search&fromsearch=1

[HaleySabai]

What an enormous economic fantasy thinking such revenues could be gathered from such a flaky farce as an 'Elite card'...... they really think there are 1 million people stupid enough to 'buy a tomorrow' in the 'Land of Impermanence'

[xbusman]

Never invest more in Thailand than you can walk away from. Its just another walkin away moment and I doubt any of those members will miss it or lose a nights sleep over that amount.

[rogerdee123]

Even if they cancel the Elite Card

and I have to look for other ways to stay here, I got many many years

of painless immigration and no headaches of trying to cheat my way

through the Thai Legal system. I still have some years before I turn

50 and hope they will let us keep the visas instead of the refunds ...

If you were clever enough you could have achieved that without spending such amounts of money on the Elite Card.

I have managed it perfectly legally for the last 10 years, I am still under 50 and have spent a minimal amount to do so.

Well .... Oberkommando ... if you and I were clever enough .... we would both have enough money that we could spend it on things such as the Elite Card.

Confucius says: Have fun and enjoy life. You can't take it with you. :jap:

[AleG]

Funny how some people resent other people with money

I don't know others, but I don't resent people with money.

What I I don't like is having a part of the tax money I pay going to supporting and/or bailing out rich people that signed up to a text book Ponzy scheme that ended up sucking money from the general budget. Why should the average taxpayer carry the cost of the Elite card holder perks?

[TAWP]

Never invest more in Thailand than you can walk away from. Its just another walkin away moment and I doubt any of those members will miss it or lose a nights sleep over that amount.

You are correct that one should not invest more in Thailand than one can walk away from. But you are wrong that most members will not lose any sleep over this since the majority that paid for the card is anything but elite.

Those that are in several cases was given the card for free too...to add insult to injury.

[Buchholz]

Never invest more in Thailand than you can walk away from. Its just another walkin away moment and I doubt any of those members will miss it or lose a nights sleep over that amount.

You are correct that one should not invest more in Thailand than one can walk away from. But you are wrong that most members will not lose any sleep over this since the majority that paid for the card is anything but elite.

That was evident while reviewing posts by this earlier search

I know forum where near 20 elite members, temembers dot com. Most important to stay in contact now.

There's likely five or more times that number right here at Thaivisa :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&section=search&do=search&fromsearch=1

[phillies]

I think that we will see the few people who purchased it at 1,000,000 baht back in 2003/2004 (40B/$) getting most of that back, say 900,000 baht after legal fees (29.8/$) for a tidy profit of about $5,000 US or close to 25% on their original investment over 7 years. Better than a T bill or savings account! During that time, they got some great free services, a few rounds of golf, ride from the airport, and all sorts of goodies. Wish my solid safe AAA+ T Bill from a country with unsustainable debt offered those services.

It's nice to have a positive attitude but until you see 900.000 baht actually added to your bank account don't compare it to an investment

[KoreaElte]

Dear Elites

Welcome back to the immigration queue!

I would say that most Elites fly First class anyway so... What Immigration queue ?

[KoreaElte]

Oh, and by the way, you don't need to be a Thailand Elite Member to get Fast Track Immigration... just get a Wisdom Credit Card from Kasikorn Bank... took me about 10 minutes...

sholaisen

The thing with Wisdom is that you need to book a lot further ahead than an elite EPL and you have a limit on the number of times per year you can use it (as opposed to the Ponzi'esque Elite scheme). And wisdom is harder to obtain for a tourist because it's tied to financial products that some K-Bank branches won't offer you without a work permit unless they know you well.

The point is valid though. Many elite members won't see any queues because they have other ways to get escorted through/fly premium cabin.

The only real issue is going to be the queue at Chaeng Wattana immigration. Gay / unmarried / married to a non-Thai and under 50 ?

[p_brownstone]

As for the refund I was told when signing up that if would be somewhere along the lines of deducting used services as you mention... If it comes to this I do expects some loss, however not 100%. Baker & McKenzie will take care of that one...

Oh, come on - you simply cannot be serious?

I have always been reasonably disposed to sympathise with you, and the many others of course, who allowed themselves to be sucked into this Ponzi Scam but please - finally face the true situation at last.

You paid Baht 1,000,000.- (how many years ago I do not know) and received various benefits ....... and, importantly, the value of these benefits is entirely up to TPC Company to decide.

If you retained "Somchai and Peun" in Nakorn Nowhere you would get exactly the same result from the argument with TPC on the amount of "Refund" you should receive as you would after retaining Baker & McKenzie to conduct the same "negotiations" over goodness knows how many years.

Nothing.

But your expressed pretensions (i.e. claims no-one believes) to hire so called High Power Lawyers would inevitably result in an even bigger loss to you - after paying their Fees.

You made a bad Investment decision - surely it's better to accept that and walk away with some dignity, rather than skulk away with empty, immature, threats and boasts.

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

I think that we will see the few people who purchased it at 1,000,000 baht back in 2003/2004 (40B/$) getting most of that back, say 900,000 baht after legal fees (29.8/$) for a tidy profit of about $5,000 US or close to 25% on their original investment over 7 years. Better than a T bill or savings account! During that time, they got some great free services, a few rounds of golf, ride from the airport, and all sorts of goodies. Wish my solid safe AAA+ T Bill from a country with unsustainable debt offered those services.

It's nice to have a positive attitude but until you see 900.000 baht actually added to your bank account don't compare it to an investment

"great free services" ??

Terms and Conditions clearly state that if a Refund of the original Membership Fee is ever due the amount will be calculated after deduction of the value of Benefits claimed by the Cardholder.

And obviously the value of those Benefits will be calculated by TPC.

Patrick

[Buchholz]

The only real issue is going to be the queue at Chaeng Wattana immigration. Gay / unmarried / married to a non-Thai and under 50 ?

I see the learn-a-language education-visa offered a lot on here. Perhaps that's their new viable visa. That or a monk visa offers another opportunity.

.

[luudee]

Funny how everybody is jumping at the airport fast track, and

other perks the Elite Card offered ....

When will the don't haves understand it is not about "fast track"

or the freaking golfing ... it's about getting a no hassles visa,

year after year after year. Read that last part again, you get

immediately a 5 (yes FIFE) year visa, which you can renew

for another 5 years in a 2 hour immigration visit. THAT IS WHY

PEOPLE PAY THE MONEY. DHUUUU

No annual headache, no bullshit, no border runs ....

I know more guys having lost far more than 1M bhat to their

"thai wifes" and girlfriends/whores than Elite Card holders paid

for the visa. But of course nobody wants to talk about that ... the

Elita Card holders are stupid, of course, the idiots being robbed

by their "thai-wifes" are so freaking clever ...

Yeah, it will suck if they discontinue the program. BUT, it was

worth every penny I spent on it. I will NOT regret it or cry over it.

And yes, of course I knew it is to good to last for ever, but I got

a good run out of it ...

Go focus back on the hunt for the 50 bhat value breakfast ...

rudi

[luudee]

...

"great free services" ??

Terms and Conditions clearly state that if a Refund of the original Membership Fee is ever due the amount will be calculated after deduction of the value of Benefits claimed by the Cardholder.

And obviously the value of those Benefits will be calculated by TPC.

Patrick

Hey, if they cancel all the perks BUT let us keep the lifetime visa, they can keep all my money ... thats all I ever cared about anyway ...

rudi

[Buchholz]

... it's about getting a no hassles visa,

year after year after year

You'll still be able to get that with either the Thai-language student visa or the monk visa that you are now free to pursue.

Just instead of an Elite representative helping you, it will be a language school receptionist or the abbot at the temple.

Either way, you'll have the help you need.

[KoreaElte]

... it's about getting a no hassles visa,

year after year after year

You'll still be able to get that with either the Thai-language student visa or the monk visa that you are now free to pursue.

Just instead of an Elite representative helping you, it will be a language school receptionist or the abbot at the temple.

Either way, you'll have the help you need.

I sincerely hope people don't just pretend to want to become a monk to get a visa. Not all current visa-holders will want a visa. And a 5-year visa, renewable perpetually for life is a lot different to a bullshit education visa. Do you want to pretend you are studying until you are old enough to get a retirement visa ? Wouldn't be my cup of tea.

The Elite visa beats most other options for convenience and legitimacy.

[Crushdepth]

Dear Elites

Welcome back to the immigration queue!

I would say that most Elites fly First class anyway so... What Immigration queue ?

For the *third* time: Humour. It was HUMOUR. Do not take it seriously.

I am amazed at how many people think standing in an immigration queue is some sort of crime or sign of poverty. Let me be clear that I do not look down on these poor unfortunates, [flicks nose upwards] just on the snooty people who do.

[Buchholz]

... it's about getting a no hassles visa,

year after year after year

You'll still be able to get that with either the Thai-language student visa or the monk visa that you are now free to pursue.

Just instead of an Elite representative helping you, it will be a language school receptionist or the abbot at the temple.

Either way, you'll have the help you need.

I sincerely hope people don't just pretend to want to become a monk to get a visa. Not all current visa-holders will want a visa. And a 5-year visa, renewable perpetually for life is a lot different to a bullshit education visa. Do you want to pretend you are studying until you are old enough to get a retirement visa ? Wouldn't be my cup of tea.

The Elite visa beats most other options for convenience and legitimacy.

The thing is though is that the 5-year visa, renewable for life, seems to be finished, so I was offering suggestions on other avenues that the card holders can pursue to maintain a visa which would enable them to stay in Thailand after their current visa runs out. There are other options for them like bi-monthly border running, but I figured they wouldn't want to do that so my suggestions would hopefully be the less disagreeable avenue for them to pursue.

I don't know about pretending to be a monk or genuinely studying language as a legitimate student, but I think people will do what is necessary to maintain a life here if that is what they want to do. So while it may not be someone's cup of tea, one's gotta do what one's gotta do.

.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Buchholz

[luudee]

... it's about getting a no hassles visa,

year after year after year

You'll still be able to get that with either the Thai-language student visa or the monk visa that you are now free to pursue.

Just instead of an Elite representative helping you, it will be a language school receptionist or the abbot at the temple.

Either way, you'll have the help you need.

There are dozens of options non of them are as attractive as the elite visa ....

rudi

Edited May 2, 2011 by luudee

[Buchholz]

... it's about getting a no hassles visa,

year after year after year

You'll still be able to get that with either the Thai-language student visa or the monk visa that you are now free to pursue.

Just instead of an Elite representative helping you, it will be a language school receptionist or the abbot at the temple.

Either way, you'll have the help you need.

That is absolutely not true.

1) You have to reapply for the student visa every year

2) You have to attend a language school (may be you are suggesting I should cheat and not attend)

Get your facts straight before replying ...

The Elite visa is good for 5 years at a a time ... no annual renewal ... it is a 5 year visa ... it is a 5 year visa .... it is a 5 year visa ...

rudi

What I wrote is absolutely not "not true".

1. Yes, you have to reapply for a education visa, but that point wasn't made in your original quote.

2. Yes, you have to attend school. Never said you didn't.

I have my facts straight.

The Elite visa was good for 5 years. Now you need something else. I was trying to be helpful and offer suggestions, but you react harshly and accusatory with false claims regarding my posts.

Are other card holders this unpleasant?

[Buchholz]

... it's about getting a no hassles visa,

year after year after year

You'll still be able to get that with either the Thai-language student visa or the monk visa that you are now free to pursue.

Just instead of an Elite representative helping you, it will be a language school receptionist or the abbot at the temple.

Either way, you'll have the help you need.

There are dozens of options non of them are as attractive as the elite visa ....

rudi

I don't think there are "dozens" of options, but there are a few and while they may not be as attractive as an elite visa, they are there.

At the end of the day, we all decide if what we want to do is worth pursuing.

If it's not worth pursuing the other options, then... up to you. There are over 200 countries in the world besides Thailand for you.

.

[luudee]

What I wrote is absolutely not "not true".

1. Yes, you have to reapply for a education visa, but that point wasn't made in your original quote.

2. Yes, you have to attend school. Never said you didn't.

I have my facts straight.

The Elite visa was good for 5 years. Now you need something else. I was trying to be helpful and offer suggestions, but you react harshly and accusatory with false claims regarding my posts.

Are other card holders this unpleasant?

Sorry Buchholz I am just frustrated because of all this shit. Didn't

mean to to take it out on you, my apologies.

There are other options, just not as pleasant as the Elite Card.

At this point nobody really know what the government will actually

do. If they give me the option to keep just the life time visa (no

perks) or some of the money back, I will chose the visa.

Cheers,

rudi

[Oberkommando]

When will the don't haves understand it is not about "fast track"

or the freaking golfing ... it's about getting a no hassles visa,

year after year after year. Read that last part again, you get

immediately a 5 (yes FIFE) year visa, which you can renew

for another 5 years in a 2 hour immigration visit. THAT IS WHY

PEOPLE PAY THE MONEY. DHUUUU

No annual headache, no bullshit, no border runs ....

Never had a headache from using Non-imm visas, certainly not as big a headache as finally realising I'd been diddled out of a million Baht.

[luudee]

When will the don't haves understand it is not about "fast track"

or the freaking golfing ... it's about getting a no hassles visa,

year after year after year. Read that last part again, you get

immediately a 5 (yes FIFE) year visa, which you can renew

for another 5 years in a 2 hour immigration visit. THAT IS WHY

PEOPLE PAY THE MONEY. DHUUUU

No annual headache, no bullshit, no border runs ....

Never had a headache from using Non-imm visas, certainly not as big a headache as finally realising I'd been diddled out of a million Baht.

Who's got "diddled out of a million Baht" ?

I've gotten my moneys worth already, and hopefully will enjoy the benefits much longer ...