Earth Store Bodhisattva?

[rockyysdt]

I was given a book titled Sutra of the Past Vows of Earth Store Bodhisattva?

Haven't started to read it yet but was wondering if anyone is familiar with it.

A puzzling opening vow reads:

"Until the Hells are empty, I vow not to become a Buddha; Only after all living beings are saved, will l myself attain Bodhi."

Puzzling because the last Buddha whom we're familiar with attained Buddhahood even though countless remain unsaved.

Does this mean that our Buddha didn't have the same care for the unsaved?

Edited April 28, 2011 by rockyysdt

[Brucenkhamen]

I think it just means he lived in the real world, not a world of unattainable ideals.

[huli]

This is just a typical Mahayana statement. They developed this Bodhisattva emphasis way beyond the teachings of Buddha. Among other things. Would be my 2 cents.

[Xangsamhua]

It looks to me just a declaration of the Bodhisattva Vow (incorporating several vows), which is sometimes expressed in an extreme form.

In its normal form, for most people, the Bodhisattva Vow really just places compassionate action before self-development and personal enlightenment, the latter the way of the Arahants.

I would think the two go together rather than in opposition. Some people cite the First Aid principle - attend to your own safety first, so you can then attend to others - but in the normal course of life one needs others for one's own development. They're interdependent, like everything else, so compassionate action becomes a condition for self-development and, hence, enlightenment.

The danger of misplaced compassion is obvious, so the Bodhisattva Vow needs to be accompanied by Right Thought, Right Effort, Right Speech, etc., i.e. informed by Bhuddhadamma.

There is a Wikipedia article about this sutra at http://en.wikipedia....bha_Bodhisattva

And on the Bodhisattva vows at http://en.wikipedia....odhisattva_vows

Edited April 29, 2011 by Xangsamhua

[khaowong1]

I think it just means he lived in the real world, not a world of unattainable ideals.

Nice come back.

[rockyysdt]

This is just a typical Mahayana statement. They developed this Bodhisattva emphasis way beyond the teachings of Buddha. Among other things. Would be my 2 cents.

Despite possible leanings, whether Mahayanan or Theravadan, both will teach hell realms and much suffering due to Karmic accumulation.

The book provides details of these hell realms as follows:

Punishment is undergone day and night throughout many eons without ceasing for a moment.

Those punishments are inflicted by instruments of torture such as forks, clubs, by eagles, serpents, wolves and dogs, or by pounding, grinding, drilling, chiseling, cutting & chopping, or by boiling liquids, iron nets, iron ropes, or by rawhide strips bound around ones head, or molten iron poured over ones body, or by meals of iron pellets, and drinks of molten iron.

When these worlds are destroyed offenders are re born into another one, and another, and another and return to the original one when the original one comes into being again.

To describe all the hells, all the variations of punishments, and the evil beasts, ghosts, and spirits meting out these punishments would take eons to describe.

Offenders continually undergo thousands of deaths and as many rebirths each day and night from the moment they first enter this hell and on through hundreds of eons without a moments relief until the karma is exhausted.

We've spoken before about unspent karma leading to Infinite occurrences of re birth.

A few here will tell you that re birth can be into several realms, many in quite terrible hell states.

Infinity suggests infinite possibilities.

[huli]

This is just a typical Mahayana statement. They developed this Bodhisattva emphasis way beyond the teachings of Buddha. Among other things. Would be my 2 cents.

Despite possible leanings, whether Mahayanan or Theravadan, both will teach hell realms and much suffering due to Karmic accumulation.

The book provides details of these hell realms as follows:

Punishment is undergone day and night throughout many eons without ceasing for a moment.

Those punishments are inflicted by instruments of torture such as forks, clubs, by eagles, serpents, wolves and dogs, or by pounding, grinding, drilling, chiseling, cutting & chopping, or by boiling liquids, iron nets, iron ropes, or by rawhide strips bound around ones head, or molten iron poured over ones body, or by meals of iron pellets, and drinks of molten iron.

When these worlds are destroyed offenders are re born into another one, and another, and another and return to the original one when the original one comes into being again.

To describe all the hells, all the variations of punishments, and the evil beasts, ghosts, and spirits meting out these punishments would take eons to describe.

Offenders continually undergo thousands of deaths and as many rebirths each day and night from the moment they first enter this hell and on through hundreds of eons without a moments relief until the karma is exhausted.

We've spoken before about unspent karma leading to Infinite occurrences of re birth.

A few here will tell you that re birth can be into several realms, many in quite terrible hell states.

Infinity suggests infinite possibilities.

I admit to being a junior member of this forum and make no claims for myself except that I am ready to learn where i need to.

However, the above comment to my 2 cents warrants my feedback, and hopefully others will find the dialogue interesting as well.

This is my hope, I do not mean to be argumentative, only to clarify the issue under discussion.

I did offer my suggestion that the Bodhisattva vow and hells are largely a Mahayana creation. The reply indicates that hell realms are equally Theravada. Now while some taint of afterlife hells might be found in popular Buddhism in Theravada countries, I don't think it is fair or accurate to say there is not a huge difference in emphasis between the traditions. In essence, I stick up for the Theravadists, who I think are wrongly depicted. This issue of hells, especially wildly creative hells in an afterlife was not an emphasis of Buddha in the Pali Cannon. Surely, that can be accepted.

Secondly, the document in question is referred to as a "Sutra". There is an authoritative ring to using such a word for this document. Someone wrote it. There is no historical connection to any source which we should trust. I take exception to the reply which states that this book provides "details" of this imaginative realm. Buddha said not to consider such statements as true, since it can not be verified. I think it is just a useful allegory that if you do bad, bad will follow, in the form of someone's wild imagination.

There may be some kind of a modern trend to say the Buddhism is anything that anyone says it is, but why not call a spade a spade? A lot of the Mahayana beliefs just don't jive with Orthodox Buddhism, not to deny where some have advanced Buddhism also. Zillions of Buddhas alive in heaven, that we can pray to? How is that anything but a wrong turn?

[Jawnie]

This is just a typical Mahayana statement. They developed this Bodhisattva emphasis way beyond the teachings of Buddha. Among other things. Would be my 2 cents.

Despite possible leanings, whether Mahayanan or Theravadan, both will teach hell realms and much suffering due to Karmic accumulation.

The book provides details of these hell realms as follows:

Punishment is undergone day and night throughout many eons without ceasing for a moment.

Those punishments are inflicted by instruments of torture such as forks, clubs, by eagles, serpents, wolves and dogs, or by pounding, grinding, drilling, chiseling, cutting & chopping, or by boiling liquids, iron nets, iron ropes, or by rawhide strips bound around ones head, or molten iron poured over ones body, or by meals of iron pellets, and drinks of molten iron.

When these worlds are destroyed offenders are re born into another one, and another, and another and return to the original one when the original one comes into being again.

To describe all the hells, all the variations of punishments, and the evil beasts, ghosts, and spirits meting out these punishments would take eons to describe.

Offenders continually undergo thousands of deaths and as many rebirths each day and night from the moment they first enter this hell and on through hundreds of eons without a moments relief until the karma is exhausted.

We've spoken before about unspent karma leading to Infinite occurrences of re birth.

A few here will tell you that re birth can be into several realms, many in quite terrible hell states.

Infinity suggests infinite possibilities.

Hi Rockyysdt: a quick Google search confirms that this is a Mahayana sutra. As we know, some Thai Buddhists reject most things Mahayana. In any case, Dudjom Rinpoche, in his "History of the Nyingma School" lists Ksitigarbha as one of the "Eight Closest Sons" of the Buddha. This bodhisattva's Tibetan name is Sai-snying-po and is the Buddha of the hell realms.

[rockyysdt]

Hi Rockyysdt: a quick Google search confirms that this is a Mahayana sutra. As we know, some Thai Buddhists reject most things Mahayana. In any case, Dudjom Rinpoche, in his "History of the Nyingma School" lists Ksitigarbha as one of the "Eight Closest Sons" of the Buddha. This bodhisattva's Tibetan name is Sai-snying-po and is the Buddha of the hell realms.

Thanks J.

I'm wary of any attachment to things such as the colorful description of hells in the book I was given.

These are things we definitely can't very in our current life.

Despite such detail not being directly linked to what the Buddha said, didn't he verify the existence of Hell realms?

If he did, then using our knowledge of eternity and infinity, how could we come to any other conclusion?

Edited May 2, 2011 by rockyysdt