Farang...Origin And Meaning Of The Word

[OldGringo]

A question that often arises is the etymology and connotation of the word "farang". In plain English, where does it come from and does it have any negative racial overtones? If you ask Thais you will get all kinds of different answers telling you [as is their wont] what they think you want to hear. Or a simple "my sahp", just to shut you up.

If the erudite TV members have any information about this it would clear up a lot of misunderstanding, especially among people who are here for the first time.

My own belief is that it comes from the Farsi word "ferrangi" meaning "Frank", originally referring to crusaders, and used by the Persians who were in Ayudhya and held the posts of Shah Bandar at the Siamese ports in the 17th century. The French understandably like to think it comes from "Francaise". But the French were not the first farangs here. They were preceded by the Portugese and possibly others.

The second question is whether or not it is an insult as some of us seem to think. I don't believe it is. Of course, when combined with "kee nohk", it most certainly is. The addition of birdshit never improves anything [except maybe the statues of politicians]. But the word "farang" on it's own is, I think, neutral.

I have occasionally been called "khun farang" by strangers...not very often, but perhaps that is due to my lack of a dignified bearing [the OldGringo went native long ago]. If it had anything negative about it I'm sure it wouldn't be used in that way.

That's what I think. If I hear anything convincing to the contrary I would stand corrected.

Thank's for any comments on this.

[Thailand]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Oh God, not again.

[krung]

From a Thai language website.

kee nok' and 'kee ngok'

These two insults probably cause more confusion and debate than any others. This is partly because they are sometimes directed at western foreigners (farang) and partly because we don't quite know what they mean. It is also because the western ear finds it very difficult to distinguish between the 'n' sound at the start of nok and the 'ng' sound at the start of ngok. Westerners therefore often think they have heard the strong insult farang kee nok when what was actually said is the much gentler insult farang kee ngok.

farang kee nok - in this case kee is being used as 'shit' and nok means bird. The phrase therefore means 'bird shit foreigner' and is quite a nasty insult. However, it really isn't used all that often. It is more common that the westerner thinks that is what he heard when what was actually said is...

farang kee ngok - in this case kee is being used as 'a tendancy to be' and ngok implies both a tendancy to keep your own possessions and to be covetous of other people's possessions. The phrase suggests stingyness. It says that the foreigner is happy to accept Thai hospitaily but is not giving anything back.

[OldGringo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

Thanks for the reference. Now I know.

[OldGringo]

Oh God, not again.

ILUVU2 Nah rahk meu-un derm.

[HeavyDrinker]

Be aware that the Wiki page has been spammed many times over the years.

David Smyth maintains that it is derived from the Thai bastardisation of 'farangsayt' and that's good enough for me.

All of the faux linguistic arguments to the contrary are merely feeble efforts at knob waving.

[Nawtier]

From a Thai language website.

farang kee ngok - in this case kee is being used as 'a tendancy to be' and ngok implies both a tendancy to keep your own possessions and to be covetous of other people's possessions. The phrase suggests stingyness. It says that the foreigner is happy to accept Thai hospitaily but is not giving anything back.

What a croc of birdshit......white or otherwise.

[HTWoodson]

Don't really see why this is posted in the CM forum.

[Ulysses G.]

Don't see why it is posted at all.

[LJW]

Don't see why it is posted at all.

It is a Standard Troll Question

[Nawtier]

So it is not relative right ??

I am interested in it......I usually read the reason why every few years cos I forget and want to be sure they are not making fun of me.

My missus calls me it....doubt she would call me it if it had bad undertones.....butter would'nt melt in her mouth....she also calls the kids little farangs sometimes.

[Soutpeel]

Be aware that the Wiki page has been spammed many times over the years.

David Smyth maintains that it is derived from the Thai bastardisation of 'farangsayt' and that's good enough for me.

All of the faux linguistic arguments to the contrary are merely feeble efforts at knob waving.

To add to a otherwise boring topic which has been rehashed time and time again, found some very similar words in other languages which mean the same thing, the Hindi/Urdu reference is quite intriguing considering the Thailand/local area connection with India as regards the formation of buddism/hindi etc, therefore the root may not be french as has been suggested, but from India...as is the derogatory connatation of the "Thai" word Farang....

Farangi or firang is a term for foreigners in Persian, possibly linked to the Franks.

The word in Arabic (faranji or ferenji) is similar and the word Farangi also appears in Amharic,Urdu and Hindi in reference to foreigners.

It can have a derogatory connotation, and was used by people in British India to refer to the "white foreigners who travel".

:jap:

[PattayaParent]

Oh God, not again.

I agree, 2 currently active threads saying the same thing over and over that's been said on countless threads before.

Bottom line. You either think it's an insult or you don't, either way you ain't going to stop Thais using the word Farang to describe white foreigners, or sometimes look krungs as the thread in Family and Children is about.

Live with it.

[carmine]

Not again please. Who cares anyway. Some don't mind it some hate it, either way, nothing will change. Let it go.

otherwise the usual suspects are going to have a field day.

[MikeCNX]

Be aware that the Wiki page has been spammed many times over the years.

David Smyth maintains that it is derived from the Thai bastardisation of 'farangsayt' and that's good enough for me.

All of the faux linguistic arguments to the contrary are merely feeble efforts at knob waving.

To add to a otherwise boring topic which has been rehashed time and time again, found some very similar words in other languages which mean the same thing, the Hindi/Urdu reference is quite intriguing considering the Thailand/local area connection with India as regards the formation of buddism/hindi etc, therefore the root may not be french as has been suggested, but from India...as is the derogatory connatation of the "Thai" word Farang....

Farangi or firang is a term for foreigners in Persian, possibly linked to the Franks.

The word in Arabic (faranji or ferenji) is similar and the word Farangi also appears in Amharic,Urdu and Hindi in reference to foreigners.

It can have a derogatory connotation, and was used by people in British India to refer to the "white foreigners who travel".

:jap:

HAHA cool. This reminds of the Star Trek race Ferengi Maybe it came from that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi

[zzaa09]

Be aware that the Wiki page has been spammed many times over the years.

David Smyth maintains that it is derived from the Thai bastardisation of 'farangsayt' and that's good enough for me.

All of the faux linguistic arguments to the contrary are merely feeble efforts at knob waving.

Yes. There is a lot of misdirected info available. But alas, if one truly seeks to find resources of every sort through research, there is a wealth of material {in a few languages} that can be accessible freely. The greater of relying on one or two conventional sources can be misleading. Yet, this is how most wish to imbibe info and stimulus. For every established point and concluded theory, there are loads of countering measures.

[sarahsbloke]

When I call a black man a Ni$#er, I don't mean to insult him.

When a Thai calls me, a white man, a Fa$#ng, he doesn't mean to insult me.

Ignorant rednecks and ignorant Thais have the right to call people from different ethnic groups anything they like.

When my wife calls me a Fa$#ng, I call her a F$#king Thai Wh$#e, I think that's fair.

Does the origin of any of the words matter, I don't think so.

Same, same, but different.

No insults intended to anyone on TV.

[SteeleJoe]

Indo-Persian or otherwise Indo-European in origin:

afrangi,ifranji, faranji Arabic variations

afrang,faranj,ferang, ferangi, feringhi Persian

farenghi Hindi

farengi,farangi, pirangi Tamil (Sri Lanka)

farangi Malayalam (India)

barang Khmer (Cambodia)

pha-rang, pha-lang-xa Vietnamese

palang Malaysia

barang Bahasa Indonesia

And anything else I have to say on the subject -- plenty -- I've said too often.

[saraburioz]

From a Thai language website.

kee nok' and 'kee ngok'

These two insults probably cause more confusion and debate than any others. This is partly because they are sometimes directed at western foreigners (farang) and partly because we don't quite know what they mean. It is also because the western ear finds it very difficult to distinguish between the 'n' sound at the start of nok and the 'ng' sound at the start of ngok. Westerners therefore often think they have heard the strong insult farang kee nok when what was actually said is the much gentler insult farang kee ngok.

farang kee nok - in this case kee is being used as 'shit' and nok means bird. The phrase therefore means 'bird shit foreigner' and is quite a nasty insult. However, it really isn't used all that often. It is more common that the westerner thinks that is what he heard when what was actually said is...

farang kee ngok - in this case kee is being used as 'a tendancy to be' and ngok implies both a tendancy to keep your own possessions and to be covetous of other people's possessions. The phrase suggests stingyness. It says that the foreigner is happy to accept Thai hospitaily but is not giving anything back.

really pisses me off when farang quote 'farang kee nok' saying it means bird shit when it doesn't. The person who posted that on whatever website is wrong also.

There is a type of guava called farang kee nok - the trees are spread by birds eating the sees and then flying afar and shitting - a new tree will grow. Thai people say 'farang kee nok' as a play on words as foreigners are also called farang and the travelling ones like you find at Khao san Road are called this.

[sbk]

[PingManDan]

To anyone who insults you can say "yet maae" and hold up the a hand showing your middle finger to them (they'll get the point)

[Ulysses G.]

There is a type of guava called farang kee nok - the trees are spread by birds eating the sees and then flying afar and shitting - a new tree will grow.

So it means bird shit with seeds.

[endure]

I'm losing the will to live...

[zzaa09]

To anyone who insults you can say "yet maae" and hold up the a hand showing your middle finger to them (they'll get the point)

Oh yes. I'm sure you do that often, don't you? Those who talk the loudest.

[zzaa09]

There is a type of guava called farang kee nok - the trees are spread by birds eating the sees and then flying afar and shitting - a new tree will grow.

So it means bird shit with seeds.

Or an easier translation: Farang are full of bird shit {figuratively}

[Thaddeus]

To anyone who insults you can say "yet maae" and hold up the a hand showing your middle finger to them (they'll get the point)

And then leave the country, very quickly.

[Thaddeus]

feeble efforts at knob waving.

Is that what lazy Mexican nudists do?

[mrtoad]

Oh God, not again.

My thoughts exactly.

[mrtoad]

To anyone who insults you can say "yet maae" and hold up the a hand showing your middle finger to them (they'll get the point)

And then leave the country, very quickly.

If not the country, certainly leave the area - as the results are not likely to be pleasant.