Oil And Water

[Shotime]

Many generalities here. Thailand or not, who is anybody to pass judgement on anyones relationship. He should have brought two girls with BG stamped on their foreheads. Dressed in Daisy Mays, 6" "come fukc me" pumps, and large round orange earrings. He should have introduced them as international bankers. What a conglomeration of a-holes.

[electrozebra]

Hmmm no, I have never heard the term "bar girl" used in reference to a waitress. Bar girl is hooker, otherwise why on gods earth ruin her rep and refer to her or herself as a bar girl needlessly? No I gotta disagree with you here, the op is talking about the young man bringing a hooker to work events. If she was just a waitress there wouldn't be an issue at all. I know tons of guys dating hookers thinking its ok, if they were smart enough to date a freaking waitress instead that would be a huge step up, but they don't do that. If you are refering to some grey line were its a waitress who in fact occasionally sells her body only when the mood or need causes her to but usually she does not, well she is still a hooker and well earned the title bar girl.

This is my problem: There are literally millions of girls with the moral sense to NOT sell their bodies here but these guys don't even try to date girls like that. They make a choice and in truth should live with the consequences. They want sexy and slutty and easy to have sex with, that comes with consequences.

[Huey]

Thats kinda what he gets. I mean really, put things back were you found them.

You don't take some whore from the bar and bring her to work unless your a pimp, nuff said.

He's lucky to still even have a job.

[TheLaughingMan]

Many generalities here. Thailand or not, who is anybody to pass judgement on anyones relationship. He should have brought two girls with BG stamped on their foreheads. Dressed in Daisy Mays, 6" "come fukc me" pumps, and large round orange earrings. He should have introduced them as international bankers. What a conglomeration of a-holes.

So my question is to you then. A man works for a bank in the States and is ambitious and keen, he goes to a work event and brings a prostitute, she is obviously a prostitute by the way she dresses and behaves. There is no doubt. His boss then makes a judgement call and forever after does not promote this man and he becomes just another worker destined for nothingness. So the boss is wrong? The boss should not expect good judgement and image from his top employees or those being groomed for top positions? Because he's the boss doesn't that give him the right to judge since it's his bank? This is what I mean, how equal is everything supposed to be? The world is supposed to not think critical thoughts of anyone regardless of what they do publicly? Theres a big difference from strangers judging people they dont even know and your boss or someone you WANT SOMETHING FROM judging you. Dont ya think?

[CanInBKK]

I'd agree, doing something illegal is one thing but flaunting it around is another (remember P4P is still illegal in Thailand). Think about it, you don't bribe the cop by asking him out loud "how much?", you just slip a bill under your DL when you hand it to him. If the boss never promotes him or even fires him for exhibiting poor judgment nobody's to blame except himself.

[bobbin]

sofa king we tall did

say it outloud slowly to fully grasp my opinion on most of the posts here

I actually tried this today.......

I sounded like Baba Walters!

[barrybankruad]

It never ceases to surprise me the disdain the average falang poster on this forum has for bar girls. It may surprise some that there are many young Thai woman who do not come from poor Issan peasant backgrounds who act as 'escorts'. I have a good friend here who together with is wife run an escort agency. Via the internet they pander to the sexual requirements of foreign visitors. Almost all the girls that they have on their books have well paid jobs in Bangkok, secretaries, bank officials, etcetera.

For those of you who remember the crash of 1999 when many businesses in Bangkok closed down or shrank considerably, it may interest you to know that I had occasion to visit Pattaya shortly after that event. I had been friendly with a bar owner there for many years. Believe it or not she often stated that she could rarely get enough girls to work the bars she owned. However on this occasion she stated that there were more than enough young women willing to work the bars, and who were these women?, why the laid off secretaries, bank officials etcetera that I have previously mentioned.

[TheLaughingMan]

sofa king we tall did

say it outloud slowly to fully grasp my opinion on most of the posts here

I actually tried this today.......

I sounded like Baba Walters!

Hehe

[JurgenG]

^ Most of us are aware of the reality you describe. So what ?

Madoff too comes from a respectable family and had a respectable job before turning to crime. Does it make him less of a criminal ?

[Shotime]

"Dont ya think?"

Your example is as extreme as mine. His mistake was in sharing his opinions (I'm assuming they already knew she was a BG) with his co-workers. He didn't handle it very well considering the true nature of his co-workers.and most people.

[nocturn]

Many generalities here. Thailand or not, who is anybody to pass judgement on anyones relationship. He should have brought two girls with BG stamped on their foreheads. Dressed in Daisy Mays, 6" "come fukc me" pumps, and large round orange earrings. He should have introduced them as international bankers. What a conglomeration of a-holes.

to the best of my knowledge Daisy Mays is a barbecue restaurant chain in the US or a florists shop in the UK. Why would she wear either?

[IanForbes]

Hmmm no, I have never heard the term "bar girl" used in reference to a waitress. Bar girl is hooker, otherwise why on gods earth ruin her rep and refer to her or herself as a bar girl needlessly? No I gotta disagree with you here, the op is talking about the young man bringing a hooker to work events. If she was just a waitress there wouldn't be an issue at all. I know tons of guys dating hookers thinking its ok, if they were smart enough to date a freaking waitress instead that would be a huge step up, but they don't do that. If you are refering to some grey line were its a waitress who in fact occasionally sells her body only when the mood or need causes her to but usually she does not, well she is still a hooker and well earned the title bar girl.

This is my problem: There are literally millions of girls with the moral sense to NOT sell their bodies here but these guys don't even try to date girls like that. They make a choice and in truth should live with the consequences. They want sexy and slutty and easy to have sex with, that comes with consequences.

Neither you or I were at the function, nor do we know the people concerned. But, if you think that all women who work in Thai bars are hookers then you are sadly mistaken. Your distain also shows a smug superiority towards people who work in bars. Yes, I am well aware that the term "bar girl" is another name for hooker. But, neither of us know for certain that the young man said his girl friend was a hooker.

I also said he was foolish and made a mistake that he is now paying for. Many companies have certain standards that everyone must follow, even if that doesn't suit you. I don't like wearing a suit, and maintaining one, but if a company I wanted to work for insisted on a suit then I would wear one. I've known several men who didn't get advancements in their business for a variety of reasons that didn't have anything to do with the quality of their work: they didn't belong to the right clubs, they didn't belong to the Masons, their wife didn' t fit in with the other wives, they went to the wrong church, their skin was a different colour... etc etc.

[jazzbo]

A 'bar girl' is a girl who works in venues geared toward the non-Thai speaking farangs ... a girl of dubious virtues who works in an establishment geared 99% toward the affluent Thai male -- if she so wanted -- would in many cases out-class any female at the OP's office.

[TheLaughingMan]

Hmmm no, I have never heard the term "bar girl" used in reference to a waitress. Bar girl is hooker, otherwise why on gods earth ruin her rep and refer to her or herself as a bar girl needlessly? No I gotta disagree with you here, the op is talking about the young man bringing a hooker to work events. If she was just a waitress there wouldn't be an issue at all. I know tons of guys dating hookers thinking its ok, if they were smart enough to date a freaking waitress instead that would be a huge step up, but they don't do that. If you are refering to some grey line were its a waitress who in fact occasionally sells her body only when the mood or need causes her to but usually she does not, well she is still a hooker and well earned the title bar girl.

This is my problem: There are literally millions of girls with the moral sense to NOT sell their bodies here but these guys don't even try to date girls like that. They make a choice and in truth should live with the consequences. They want sexy and slutty and easy to have sex with, that comes with consequences.

Neither you or I were at the function, nor do we know the people concerned. But, if you think that all women who work in Thai bars are hookers then you are sadly mistaken. Your distain also shows a smug superiority towards people who work in bars. Yes, I am well aware that the term "bar girl" is another name for hooker. But, neither of us know for certain that the young man said his girl friend was a hooker.

I also said he was foolish and made a mistake that he is now paying for. Many companies have certain standards that everyone must follow, even if that doesn't suit you. I don't like wearing a suit, and maintaining one, but if a company I wanted to work for insisted on a suit then I would wear one. I've known several men who didn't get advancements in their business for a variety of reasons that didn't have anything to do with the quality of their work: they didn't belong to the right clubs, they didn't belong to the Masons, their wife didn' t fit in with the other wives, they went to the wrong church, their skin was a different colour... etc etc.

How did you misread what I said? I did not say all girls that work in bars are hookers, I said the term BARGIRL means hooker, full stop. There are tons of girls that work as waitresses that would never sell their body, that is why I made the distinction. The op said bargirl, so I was assuring you that even though we weren't there, no one would refer to someone as a bar girl if they meant waitress. For whatever reason you are desperately trying to cloud the issue but the term bargirl as used by the op means she was a hooker, not a freaking waitress. I worked in bars for years lol, ya Im all about smug against bar staff, jesus man, BARGIRL MEANS HOOKER, stop pretending not to understand.

[JurgenG]

A 'bar girl' is a girl who works in venues geared toward the non-Thai speaking farangs ... a girl of dubious virtues who works in an establishment geared 99% toward the affluent Thai male -- if she so wanted -- would in many cases out-class any female at the OP's office.

You completely miss the point. It has nothing to do with out-classing anybody. As I said in my OP, most of the Thai ladies in our parties come from the same schools,have the same friends, go to the same places. Ian got it :

I also said he was foolish and made a mistake that he is now paying for. Many companies have certain standards that everyone must follow, even if that doesn't suit you. I don't like wearing a suit, and maintaining one, but if a company I wanted to work for insisted on a suit then I would wear one. I've known several men who didn't get advancements in their business for a variety of reasons that didn't have anything to do with the quality of their work: they didn't belong to the right clubs, they didn't belong to the Masons, their wife didn' t fit in with the other wives, they went to the wrong church, their skin was a different colour... etc etc.

Regarding the BG (read hooker), there is an other issue. Prostitution, like drug use, shows a character flaw. Furthermore these people usually mix with the wrong crowd.So weakness of character plus bad friends, it's a recipe for a bad ending. Of course there are exception, but the odds are not good. When you "invest" in someone, it's a real investment, if the odds are not good, people usually prefer to pass.

And it's true both in personal and corporate life.

[IanForbes]

How did you misread what I said? I did not say all girls that work in bars are hookers, I said the term BARGIRL means hooker, full stop. There are tons of girls that work as waitresses that would never sell their body, that is why I made the distinction. The op said bargirl, so I was assuring you that even though we weren't there, no one would refer to someone as a bar girl if they meant waitress. For whatever reason you are desperately trying to cloud the issue but the term bargirl as used by the op means she was a hooker, not a freaking waitress. I worked in bars for years lol, ya Im all about smug against bar staff, jesus man, BARGIRL MEANS HOOKER, stop pretending not to understand.

I won't argue with you because we are both probably on the same side on this issue. I'm probably just a bit touchy when people jump to conclusions about all women who work in bars. I know lots of bars in Thailand that have both "bar girls" and waitresses working at the same place at the same time. And, I don't look down on anyone in any profession or job. They all serve a good purpose. If I was living in Thailand and married to a Thai woman, would I want my daughter to work as a "bar girl"? No, but not because of a sense of morality, but because it's a dead end profession that limits the opportunity to better themselves and be happy. Most young women would PREFER to be with a man of her own age bracket. But, if you work in a bar as a hooker then you are not going to meet the right young men who may have careers. They are only going to meet old fossils like me. .

[jazzbo]

from #45 You completely miss the point. It has nothing to do with out-classing anybody... I do not think I missed any point ... Maybe they DID go to the same schools or better even schools ... I maybe think you guys are sometimes a bunch of rubes.

... maybe an otherwise 'nice' girl just wants some extra baht to help her through Chula Med School or Thammasat Law School ... you would never know and as a farang most likely would never encounter them.

[retastart]

I guess the more important question would be why anyone wants to attend a company party anyway, let alone bring someone else to the party to share the misery. Ten hours a day with the same people isn't enough time together?

I'm sure the company workers would have shit on the girl just as much if she was a brown skinned girl who worked in ANY setting other than the corporate jail cell.

[james24]

if you wouldn't bring a hooker to a work dinner at home, why would you do it here?

the other side of the coin, is that it must be an excruciating night out for the tart in question. seems she is earning every penny.

I once worked with an idiot who brought a girl from the building's Au Bon Pain to dinner with the Thai MD.

he was basically laughed out of a job, and she was never seen again behind the counter.

Nothing worng with working at Au Bon Pain or any other 9-5 job.

[jazzbo]

I guess the more important question would be why anyone wants to attend a company party anyway

Only the creme de la creme of Thai society attended the party in question ... just as Mr. Forbes is able to observe all manner and strata of Thai society from his vantage point of the Bah-farang in CM.

[kerryk]

A 'bar girl' is a girl who works in venues geared toward the non-Thai speaking farangs ... a girl of dubious virtues who works in an establishment geared 99% toward the affluent Thai male -- if she so wanted -- would in many cases out-class any female at the OP's office.

You completely miss the point. It has nothing to do with out-classing anybody. As I said in my OP, most of the Thai ladies in our parties come from the same schools,have the same friends, go to the same places. Ian got it :

I also said he was foolish and made a mistake that he is now paying for. Many companies have certain standards that everyone must follow, even if that doesn't suit you. I don't like wearing a suit, and maintaining one, but if a company I wanted to work for insisted on a suit then I would wear one. I've known several men who didn't get advancements in their business for a variety of reasons that didn't have anything to do with the quality of their work: they didn't belong to the right clubs, they didn't belong to the Masons, their wife didn' t fit in with the other wives, they went to the wrong church, their skin was a different colour... etc etc.

Regarding the BG (read hooker), there is an other issue. Prostitution, like drug use, shows a character flaw. Furthermore these people usually mix with the wrong crowd.So weakness of character plus bad friends, it's a recipe for a bad ending. Of course there are exception, but the odds are not good. When you "invest" in someone, it's a real investment, if the odds are not good, people usually prefer to pass.

And it's true both in personal and corporate life.

I have encountered people like you all of my life. You are in the majority. You make up the corporate middle management of most companies and sometimes even at the top. You are correct in your assumptions of course. You have also fit right in with Thai management. Birds of a feather so to speak.

You and people like you are hard to get away from as normally you are successful and pervasive in the promulgation of your values.

When I was in my 40's I left the corporate world to strike out on my own and hired my own people. I hired some strange people. None of them would have made it in your office.

I bet you think visible tattoos, see through blouses, 6 inch heels and slit micro mini skirts are not appropriate office attire even on Fridays.

I am surprised you came to Thailand. This anti establishment moral position has quite a following in Thailand. In the 50's Japanese businessmen and British educators descended on the Thai higher education system and changed the dress code from sailor shirts and pleated floor length dresses with Mickey mouse shoes and sweat socks to short tight skirts, skintight blouses and 4 inch black heels.

Even though there have been some setbacks with Japanese earthquakes and the British economy the inexorable march of the uni girls short skirt brigade continues.

Enjoy your parochial and narrow values while you may.

Today the classroom, tomorrow the office.

[zzaa09]

This is my problem: There are literally millions of girls with the moral sense to NOT sell their bodies here but these guys don't even try to date girls like that. They make a choice and in truth should live with the consequences. They want sexy and slutty and easy to have sex with, that comes with consequences.

What's even more bizarre and contradictory would be the bloke that does "settle down" with that good girl, yet finds the insufferable need to sneak off to adult entertainment venues seeking other sorts of companionship. You know the type.....will condone and point fingers {on the surface} towards this character trait, yet "secretly" imbibes himself.

[TheLaughingMan]

I won't argue with you because we are both probably on the same side on this issue. I'm probably just a bit touchy when people jump to conclusions about all women who work in bars. I know lots of bars in Thailand that have both "bar girls" and waitresses working at the same place at the same time. And, I don't look down on anyone in any profession or job. They all serve a good purpose. If I was living in Thailand and married to a Thai woman, would I want my daughter to work as a "bar girl"? No, but not because of a sense of morality, but because it's a dead end profession that limits the opportunity to better themselves and be happy. Most young women would PREFER to be with a man of her own age bracket. But, if you work in a bar as a hooker then you are not going to meet the right young men who may have careers. They are only going to meet old fossils like me. .

Ya I do not judge people working in bars just for the sake of the location. There are many different kinds of bars in Thailand, most of them normal. However a waitress in a gogobar is simply a hooker who hasn't started yet... I only say this because when I first got to Thailand I used to date waitresses from gogobars thinking it was ok, only to eventually see them all become full blown jaded hookers over time. Which is sad... in my opinion. But most bars are not gogobars, serving drinks in one of those is an honourable profession by most peoples standards.

What's even more bizarre and contradictory would be the bloke that does "settle down" with that good girl, yet finds the insufferable need to sneak off to adult entertainment venues seeking other sorts of companionship. You know the type.....will condone and point fingers {on the surface} towards this character trait, yet "secretly" imbibes himself.

I don't see the connection. Just because someone chooses a good mate for life doesn't mean they automatically judge others that prefer to sleep with prostitutes. Nor does choosing a good mate for life mean they will be faithful. But ya if someone is going to judge and then do it themselves secretly thats fairly retarded.

[kerryk]

I won't argue with you because we are both probably on the same side on this issue. I'm probably just a bit touchy when people jump to conclusions about all women who work in bars. I know lots of bars in Thailand that have both "bar girls" and waitresses working at the same place at the same time. And, I don't look down on anyone in any profession or job. They all serve a good purpose. If I was living in Thailand and married to a Thai woman, would I want my daughter to work as a "bar girl"? No, but not because of a sense of morality, but because it's a dead end profession that limits the opportunity to better themselves and be happy. Most young women would PREFER to be with a man of her own age bracket. But, if you work in a bar as a hooker then you are not going to meet the right young men who may have careers. They are only going to meet old fossils like me. .

Ya I do not judge people working in bars just for the sake of the location. There are many different kinds of bars in Thailand, most of them normal. However a waitress in a gogobar is simply a hooker who hasn't started yet... I only say this because when I first got to Thailand I used to date waitresses from gogobars thinking it was ok, only to eventually see them all become full blown jaded hookers over time. Which is sad... in my opinion. But most bars are not gogobars, serving drinks in one of those is an honourable profession by most peoples standards.

What's even more bizarre and contradictory would be the bloke that does "settle down" with that good girl, yet finds the insufferable need to sneak off to adult entertainment venues seeking other sorts of companionship. You know the type.....will condone and point fingers {on the surface} towards this character trait, yet "secretly" imbibes himself.

I don't see the connection. Just because someone chooses a good mate for life doesn't mean they automatically judge others that prefer to sleep with prostitutes. Nor does choosing a good mate for life mean they will be faithful. But ya if someone is going to judge and then do it themselves secretly thats fairly retarded.

Isn't your statement, "someone chooses a good mate for life" judgemental? I would imagine the opposite of a good mate is a bad mate?

Maybe I am missing your point but I think you have subconsciously made your feelings known. That is that BG's are automatic bad mates.

[TheLaughingMan]

Isn't your statement, "someone chooses a good mate for life" judgemental? I would imagine the opposite of a good mate is a bad mate?

Maybe I am missing your point but I think you have subconsciously made your feelings known. That is that BG's are automatic bad mates.

Since Bargirl = prostitute then your goddamn right a prostitute makes a bad mate. For the love of god! Only in Thailand would anyone even think of saying something as ridiculous as "youre being judgemental and mean if you label all prostitutes as bad wives..." Holy frickin hell! Nothing subconcious about it! I never even tried to be subtle and hint that a hooker might be a bad idea for a wife, I violently oppose the very notion! Waitress no problem.

[zzaa09]

Isn't your statement, "someone chooses a good mate for life" judgemental? I would imagine the opposite of a good mate is a bad mate?

Maybe I am missing your point but I think you have subconsciously made your feelings known. That is that BG's are automatic bad mates.

Since Bargirl = prostitute then your goddamn right a prostitute makes a bad mate. For the love of god! Only in Thailand would anyone even think of saying something as ridiculous as "youre being judgemental and mean if you label all prostitutes as bad wives..." Holy frickin hell! Nothing subconcious about it! I never even tried to be subtle and hint that a hooker might be a bad idea for a wife, I violently oppose the very notion! Waitress no problem.

.....and waitress = ??:jap:

[CanInBKK]

Since Bargirl = prostitute then your goddamn right a prostitute makes a bad mate. For the love of god! Only in Thailand would anyone even think of saying something as ridiculous as "youre being judgemental and mean if you label all prostitutes as bad wives..."

Haven't you seen Pretty Woman with Julia Roberts?? Haha! J/K I'm with you on this one, mainly because damaged goods on sale rarely make for a good deal. (I am of course assuming the p4p girls are more likely to have been exposed to crime, drugs and violence - of course I may be wrong but I doubt it)

[kerryk]

Isn't your statement, "someone chooses a good mate for life" judgemental? I would imagine the opposite of a good mate is a bad mate?

Maybe I am missing your point but I think you have subconsciously made your feelings known. That is that BG's are automatic bad mates.

Since Bargirl = prostitute then your goddamn right a prostitute makes a bad mate. For the love of god! Only in Thailand would anyone even think of saying something as ridiculous as "youre being judgemental and mean if you label all prostitutes as bad wives..." Holy frickin hell! Nothing subconcious about it! I never even tried to be subtle and hint that a hooker might be a bad idea for a wife, I violently oppose the very notion! Waitress no problem.

Laughing man I feel for you. You are a normal guy trying to find a normal relationship in Thailand.

The best odds you are going to get are slim. Good girl and good boy only stand a 50% chance of making it even in your own culture. Throw in the cross cultural relationships and maybe a 1 in 4 chance. Add previous relationships and children from previous relationships and the odds go down further.

I have lived in Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Pattaya and now live in a small town. The differences between part time employees at a bar and regular ladies in small towns is blurred at best. Bartenders, waitresses and bar girls; who knows.

I'm not much for prostitutes or bars. But this week I had a minor cash fling with a lady who sells Pad Thai while my GF was out of town. Now every time I walk by her Pad Thai cart she says hello and smiles sweetly at me. I just hope she can keep her mouth shut when the GF comes back tonight.

Appearances are everything and nothing in Thailand. It is nice and it is a bit odd but almost anyone will talk to anyone here. You may get blown off but you get a chance. They may be thinking something terrible about me behind my back but they will give me the time of day and a bit of conversation.

[nocturn]

if you wouldn't bring a hooker to a work dinner at home, why would you do it here?

the other side of the coin, is that it must be an excruciating night out for the tart in question. seems she is earning every penny.

I once worked with an idiot who brought a girl from the building's Au Bon Pain to dinner with the Thai MD.

he was basically laughed out of a job, and she was never seen again behind the counter.

Nothing worng with working at Au Bon Pain or any other 9-5 job.

i am well aware of that. i am also aware that you have missed the point of the anecdote. thanks for coming out though.

[JurgenG]

Regarding the BG (read hooker), there is an other issue. Prostitution, like drug use, shows a character flaw. Furthermore these people usually mix with the wrong crowd.So weakness of character plus bad friends, it's a recipe for a bad ending. Of course there are exception, but the odds are not good. When you "invest" in someone, it's a real investment, if the odds are not good, people usually prefer to pass.

And it's true both in personal and corporate life.

I have encountered people like you all of my life. You are in the majority. You make up the corporate middle management of most companies and sometimes even at the top. You are correct in your assumptions of course. You have also fit right in with Thai management. Birds of a feather so to speak.

You and people like you are hard to get away from as normally you are successful and pervasive in the promulgation of your values.

............

I am surprised you came to Thailand. ......

A bit of contradiction here ...

What's even more bizarre and contradictory would be the bloke that does "settle down" with that good girl, yet finds the insufferable need to sneak off to adult entertainment venues seeking other sorts of companionship. You know the type.....will condone and point fingers {on the surface} towards this character trait, yet "secretly" imbibes himself.

Everybody enjoy a walk on the wild side from time to time. But people with common sense soon realize it's not sustainable

You and people like you are hard to get away from as normally you are successful and pervasive in the promulgation of your values.

See comment above. Basic common sense, that's all what it is.