Not defensive Kat but you replied to my comments so I replied to yours!

Fair enough.  Response generates discussion, which is why I'm on here 

The point of this thread was relationships & IMO all my points are valid.

Don't judge a person by the stereotype, don't accept bad behaviour just because of religion, culture or nationality & compromise where u are willing, I can't see a problem with them?

Don't disagree with the above statement.  But I don't think recognizing differences in culture is the same as judging by stereotypes.  I think an open person sees the individual within a culture.  However, some people don't have experience or background with a multicultural society, and merely see a race or ethnicity - such as farang or Thai.  But that image is not wrong per se, just merely limited and very rudimentary.

I seem to have missed the part where I said everyone was perfect,

I think I missed that part, too, and also where I am alluding to said comment

but if you think i'm whitewashing thats fine. I just prefer my world & am a lot happier in it for being more willing to take people at face value & judging indivually than using the old generalisations.

Boo,  I don't know if you're whitewashing.  I just don't understand what you mean by "your world".  Do you think I'm making generalizations and judging individuals according to stereotypes because I also see cultural frameworks - this, I believe, is where we are disagreeing.

Because I think not acknowledging someone's difference can be just as bad as only seeing their difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited October 5, 200520 yr by kat

My world - with my views & opinions, how I interact with the people I come in contact with & how I deal with situations. My world.

The thread is about relationships, as a relatioship is 2 people it is very much an individual thing. And my point is that it shouldn't be about farang and thai but man & woman.

I am in a multi cultural realtionship & see my husband as a man first, thai second (in fact apart from food & his religion, being thai plays a very small part in our life). If he does me wrong I don't blame his culture, I blame him.

Hope I'm not jumping in....

The good thing about generalisations is that if you particularly disagree with one you will always be able to find those people who don't conform to that genralisation. There will always be people who are different.

I think dishonesty is a dirty word. I wouldn't call telling someone something to spare their feelings neccessarily always a bad thing.

When a close friend was called by his Mum to tell him to return home to Italy immediately, she felt it was kinder to tell him that his father was in the hospital instead of telling him that he had died instantly of a heart attack. This would never happen in my family as we were brought up to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but it saved his feelings and he was greatful. I would have been livid, but he was greatful.

I do think it comes as second nature to a lot of Thai people to try and save your feelings as opposed to cause you or themselves discomfort i.e. saving face. This is hugely different to your boyfriend either lying to your face about where he was last night or witholding the information that he is already married for example.

I personally have a problem with ever being lied to, but I do understand that some people were socialised into it from birth. Using dishonesty to get out of a row with your wife when you have made a serious no-no wouldn't be acceptable to me wherever you came from.

Like Boo I personally feel that I judge each person on what I feel after getting to know them (just meeting them isn't always enough ). But perhaps that's because I am not too stereotypical of my age/intelligence/culture/race etc etc etc.

That said - if we didn't have genralisations nothing would ever get done. It would be impossible to identify who needed help in the world, what kind of a budget a country was going to have etc etc etc.

If he does me wrong I don't blame his culture, I blame him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love this quote

Yeah, I love that quote, too.

But I also look at trends and patterns. Do me wrong, and I blame him, as Boo says. If many men do many women wrong along a commonly held, well-documented pattern - I blame them and the culture.

just to refresh your memory about the particular statement in question:

What advice would you give someone about to enter a Thai-Farang relationship? have the same standard you would have about a man back home.

of course compromise is necessary, so your standards will change. that's all i am saying. boo you don't appear to disagree but i guess we have proven that misunderstandings are not only cultural.

The question was about relationship which I meant to mean standards of behaviour not standards of living ( i.e. diamond rings).

Standards are a basis for comparison; a reference point against which other things can be evaluated, the ideal in terms of which something can be judged. My standards here or back home are the same.

I don't think a man who is lazy, dishonest, promiscuous, drunkard, free loader, abusive or exploitative would be an acceptable choice whether back home or here. It isn't a question of cultural background but rather a question of character.

that is why i said maybe standards was a bad word to focus on. i don't disagree with you at all that

I don't think a man who is lazy, dishonest, promiscuous, drunkard, free loader, abusive or exploitative would be an acceptable choice whether back home or here. It isn't a question of cultural background but rather a question of character.

BUT... for instance i am coming from a militantly honest background. i expect people to be 100% honest all of the time. coming to thailand was a big shock to me, and having a boyfriend who will stretch the truth a bit just to please me was unacceptable at first. if i adhered to my standard of behavior (i want a man who is 100% honest) then this relationship would have failed right off the bat. instead i had to have some cultural understanding, change my standard a bit to adapt to this culture, and realize this is how thai people are brought up. this enabled me to stay with my boyfriend. i am sorry, but you can not come over and expect to have a sucessful relationship if you do not take cultural differences into consideration and decide which of those you can accept and which you can not (standards). maybe the honesty thing doesn't apply across the board to all thais, but if it isn't the honesty thing it would be something else cultural. if there is one thing i have learned since coming here, it is that cultural differences are much more impactive than people think.

but then, i don't think anyone really disagreed with that so not sure why the thread has spiralled into redundancy.

next?

if i adhered to my standard of behavior (i want a man who is 100% honest) then this relationship would have failed right off the bat. instead i had to have some cultural understanding, change my standard a bit to adapt to this culture, and realize this is how thai people are brought up. this enabled me to stay with my boyfriend.  i am sorry, but you can not come over and expect to have a sucessful relationship if you do not take cultural differences into consideration and decide which of those you can accept and which you can not (standards). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did exactly the opposite - if my husband practiced "saving face" I understood to a certain extent, but I made it very clear that I wouldn't accept any "white lies". He doesn't need to do that with me. He understands that I'm going to think more of him when he is upfront and honest than if he lies to me. So he knows what I will and wont accept and behaves accordingly. In return if he wants to practice saving face at work or with his friends I won't intefere, that's up to him...

So my standards haven't changed while dealing with a Thai man and I woudn't recommend changing standards like that to anyone else either. Personally, with my husband, I don't see any cultural differences that I have problems with, again, it's all about the individuals.

It's kind of spin rather than dishonesty!! Putting a whitewash on bad news...

Actually, in my experience and that of others, it's both - spin and lies. When you "spin" as a routine to save face or social harmony, lying to save your own face or social harmony is not really a long stretch.