Hun Sen Blasts Thailand At ASEAN Summit: Officials

[webfact]

Hun Sen blasts Thailand at ASEAN summit: officials

JAKARTA, May 7, 2011 (AFP) - Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen launched an "aggressive" attack on Thailand over a border dispute during the first session of a summit of Southeast Asian leaders on Saturday, a senior official said.

Senior officials said Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) leaders were taken aback at the unscheduled salvo across the meeting table at the opening of the two-day summit in Jakarta.

The trade and economy-focused summit was at risk of being hijacked by tensions over the bloody military conflict which has killed 85 people and temporarily displaced 85,000 in months of clashes.

An Asian foreign minister, who did not want to be named, said Hun Sen was "quite aggressive" when he raised the issue during the closed-door session.

Thai government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn confirmed that Hun Sen raised the dispute, which was not on the formal agenda, to the "surprise" of other leaders.

Panitan said Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was "disappointed" and rebutted Hun Sen's allegations that Thai troops were attacking Cambodian territory.

"He said he was very disappointed to hear Cambodia accusing Thailand of using force against Cambodia. In fact we have not. In fact we have been helping Cambodia through difficult times," the spokesman said.

"Despite our good intentions, yes, he (Abhisit) was disappointed that Prime Minister Hun Sen misunderstood our intention."

The dispute centres on a small area around an 11th-century Khmer temple which belongs to Cambodia under a 1962 World Court ruling.

Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong told reporters that Phnom Penh had done everything it could to resolve the issue but would never agree to Bangkok's demands to pull troops out of the temple.

"Prime Minister Hun Sen appealed to ASEAN to help solve the problem peacefully," he told reporters at the summit in the Indonesian capital, Jakarta.

"I have already said that Cambodia can never withdraw their troops from their own territory and by putting this condition, Thailand knows very well that Cambodia can never accept that."

Philippine presidential spokesman Ricky Carandang said the session was more animated than most participants had expected.

"We were surprised, many people were surprised that the Cambodian side brought it up and it took quite a bit of their time," he said.

"It became a little dramatic, but I think that's just the way that Prime Minister Hun Sen delivers speeches."

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-05-07

[geovalin]

Maybe it's a mistake to do not respect the diplomatic rules. At the same time, if it helps Abisith and Thailand to understand that since 2 years and 8 months they provoke Hun Sen - Cambodia in a trivial manner and that since all this time he remained strangely calm,it's not that bad.

[housepainter]

Hun Sen's actions are undimplomatic and he has shown this trait previously.

I refer to his unacceptable rhetoric and language when speaking about Abhisit previously when stating he would never deal with Thailand as long as Abhisit was in power. They should really be characters ina soap. It is that petty, personal and uter tripe. But there you go with third world education and having survived the killing fields and clearly leanrned nothing from it.

The man was an embarrassment then and is such again. Moreover, this time it is witnessed by foreign dignatories. The effect of which will be to strengthen Thailand's position. It also illustrates to the UN just how unpleasant dealing with Cambodia under Hun Sen is, was and will be.

He is a supporter of Thaksin and his under the table back handers. Otherwise the normal trade dealings would just continue with Hun Sen content to increase Cambodian wealth. however, that is not the name of Thaksin's or Hun Sen's game. Snouts in troughs, money in personal bank accounts in Luxembourg, Switzerland and the Caymans.

Ordinary Thais growing rice can't see it and neither can impoverished Cambodians who dream of a life growing rice.

Next.

[Buchholz]

Senior officials said Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) leaders were taken aback at the unscheduled salvo across the meeting table at the opening of the two-day summit in Jakarta.

The trade and economy-focused summit was at risk of being hijacked

An Asian foreign minister, who did not want to be named, said Hun Sen was "quite aggressive"

"We were surprised, many people were surprised that the Cambodian side brought it up and it took quite a bit of their time," he said.

"It became a little dramatic, but I think that's just the way that Prime Minister Hun Sen delivers speeches."

Speaking tactics reminiscent of Nikita Khrushchev's shoe-banging...

Or Manual Noriega's sword-thumping...

[patjem]

Hun Sen's actions are undimplomatic and he has shown this trait previously.

I refer to his unacceptable rhetoric and language when speaking about Abhisit previously when stating he would never deal with Thailand as long as Abhisit was in power. They should really be characters ina soap. It is that petty, personal and uter tripe. But there you go with third world education and having survived the killing fields and clearly leanrned nothing from it.

The man was an embarrassment then and is such again. Moreover, this time it is witnessed by foreign dignatories. The effect of which will be to strengthen Thailand's position. It also illustrates to the UN just how unpleasant dealing with Cambodia under Hun Sen is, was and will be.

He is a supporter of Thaksin and his under the table back handers. Otherwise the normal trade dealings would just continue with Hun Sen content to increase Cambodian wealth. however, that is not the name of Thaksin's or Hun Sen's game. Snouts in troughs, money in personal bank accounts in Luxembourg, Switzerland and the Caymans.

Ordinary Thais growing rice can't see it and neither can impoverished Cambodians who dream of a life growing rice.

Next.

As I understand it, he had no problems surviving the Killing Fields, as he was K.R.

[bolx]

Anyone know what Thaksin would do about the Cambodian dispute? He seems to have an answer for every other problem in Thailand.

[Lite Beer]

Abhisit responds to Hun Sen

The following is the full text of intervention by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva responding to the Thailand-Cambodia issue during the plenary session on 7 May 2011 in Jakarta.

"Allow me to respond to the statement made by Prime Minister Hun Sen.

Thailand recognizes full well that any conflict between ASEAN Member States can undermine ASEAN's community-building efforts.

I can therefore categorically state that Thailand has no intention whatsover to engage in any conflict with neighbours and countries in the region.

The border disputes between Thailand and Cambodia, like many other disputes, are long-standing. In this case, the borders have been delimited by various Treaties such as the Siamese-French Convention of 1904 and the Siamese-French Treaty of 1907. There have also been subsequent developments which have raised disagreements.

As mentioned by Prime Minister Hun Sen, there were maps that were referred to and there was a ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in 1962. The ICJ, however, made it clear that the mentioned map was not the work of the Siamese-French Mixed Commission of Delimitation. The ICJ delivered a judgment in 1962 and although Thailand did not agree with it, we complied with the judgment since 1962. Military and police personnel were withdrawn from the Temple and its vicinity since 1962. This was undertaken in a transparent manner, recognized by the international community and Cambodia. And there have been no problems for decades.

Both sides agreed on the 2000 Memorandum of Understanding between Thailand and Cambodia on the Survey and Demarcation of Land Boundary (2000 MOU) which again was done in good faith. The 2000 MOU stated that no actions should be undertaken to affect the demarcation work, and this included movement of troops and people into disputed areas. The problem emerged when Cambodia violated the 2000 MOU by sending troops and people into the area.

I therefore wish to set the record straight:

Thailand has no intention whatsoever to have conflicts.

I am therefore disappointed that Prime Minister Hun Sen has stated otherwise regarding Thailand's intentions.

Thailand has contributed to Cambodia's nation-building process with utmost sincerity and with the wish to see it advance and achieve reconciliation. Even today, we continue to provide development cooperation assistance to Cambodia because we believe that Cambodia's prosperity is linked with our prosperity. Even in times of dispute, we have continued to provide assistance, trade and cooperate economically.

Thailand has de-coupled the border dispute from other issues.

But we cannot help but notice that there is a clear attempt by Cambodia to internationalize the issue.

It is simply not true that the bilateral process is not working.

I am frustrated too, as may be Prime Minister Hun Sen, of the internal legal requirements but the fact is that the Thai-Cambodian Joint Commission on Demarcation for Land Boundary (JBC) continues to function. Legal issues have been resolved. Thailand's Consitutional Court has ruled on the Agreed Minutes of previous meetings of the JBC that they need not go to the Thai Parliament.

So we are ready to resume the JBC.

Before the clashes in February this year, my Foreign Minister was in Cambodia. Immediately after the first shot was fired, Cambodia went to the United Nations Security Council. However, bilateral mechanisms are still working. In April 2011, the JBC met in Bogor. I hope my ASEAN colleagues recognize that the doors for bilateral meetings remain open. Invitations have been issued to Cambodia regarding meetings of the JBC, the Regional Border Committee (RBC) and the General Border Committee (GBC). We are waiting for Cambodia to accept the invitations.

I accept that the issue could affect the credibility of ASEAN. We must therefore make sure that any problem should be solved, locally, bilaterally and if needed with the facilitation of the region.

Regarding the Terms of Reference (TOR) on the Indonesian Observers Team (IOT), the Thai Cabinet has approved the text of TOR. But we have concerns. If observers are to be sent, there must be good faith shown by Cambodia to respect the 2000 MOU. This involves the withdrawal of troops and other people from these areas since the 2000 MOU states that there would be no movement of troops and people into these areas.

Furthermore, the presence of troops at the Temple is a violation of the 1954 Hague Convention on the Protection of Cultural Properties in the Event of Armed Conflict and the 1972 Convention concerning the Protection of the World Cultural and Natural Heritage as well as the guidelines of the World Heritage Committee. It is therefore a good idea for the GBC to discuss this before the IOT is sent.

On the recent border clashes in April - these took place more than 100 kilometers away from the Phra Viharn Temple. Therefore, the area where the IOT is to be sent to is nowhere near the latest clashes. Subsequently and immediately, Cambodia sent a letter to the ICJ.

I apologize for taking time to explain this issue. This matter can be resolved bilaterally. We welcome ASEAN's facilitating role and appreciate Indonesia's facilitation in this regard. There are some technical issues to be addressed. If there is good faith, then our house can be set in order.

I welcome the offer of our host to hold a meeting with Cambodia and Thailand - I have no problems discussing this issue with Prime Minister Hun Sen. This will allow for a good understanding of what really happened in the past few months."

-- The Nation 2011-05-07

[jdinasia]

Gotta hand it to Abhisit, after Hun Sen spoke and Abhsit responded ... it just made Hun Sen look like a petulant child.

[elcent]

As mentioned by Prime Minister Hun Sen, there were maps that were referred to and there was a ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in 1962. The ICJ, however, made it clear that the mentioned map was not the work of the Siamese-French Mixed Commission of Delimitation. The ICJ delivered a judgment in 1962 and although Thailand did not agree with it, we complied with the judgment since 1962. Military and police personnel were withdrawn from the Temple and its vicinity since 1962. This was undertaken in a transparent manner, recognized by the international community and Cambodia. And there have been no problems for decades.

lots of hot air. Just this paragraph says a lot. Thailand didn't agree but complied with the judgement. Mr Abhisit, this is an agreement, nothing more nothing less and so be it. Hold on to this and there will be no troubles. The ICJ will not change a judgment made decades ago. Live with it and make the best out of it. It was already on a peace path but deliberatley attacked by the PAD.

Hun Sen is hot tempered but he spoke his heart.

We should not forget that Abhisit and the army went different ways since the beginning of the recent clashes. I think the fact that there're 400 000 Chinese expats in Cambodia has made them more careful now and I hope that they will continue peacefully.

Anyway, Abhisit is the outgoing PM and most likely another one will take his place. Lets see how that one can co-operate with the armed forces. There're plenty of gentlemen in the armed forces. Lets all hope to see the right ones in charge.

[jdinasia]

Elcent -- if you think Hun Sen is doing anything but posturing, and trying to set up things for a close friend AND the contested marine areas .......

Abhisit rightly pointed out that troops at PV are not legal, that under the 2000 MOU troops or settlers in the disputed areas are not allowed etc ...

[whybother]

As mentioned by Prime Minister Hun Sen, there were maps that were referred to and there was a ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in 1962. The ICJ, however, made it clear that the mentioned map was not the work of the Siamese-French Mixed Commission of Delimitation. The ICJ delivered a judgment in 1962 and although Thailand did not agree with it, we complied with the judgment since 1962. Military and police personnel were withdrawn from the Temple and its vicinity since 1962. This was undertaken in a transparent manner, recognized by the international community and Cambodia. And there have been no problems for decades.

lots of hot air. Just this paragraph says a lot. Thailand didn't agree but complied with the judgement. Mr Abhisit, this is an agreement, nothing more nothing less and so be it. Hold on to this and there will be no troubles. The ICJ will not change a judgment made decades ago. Live with it and make the best out of it. It was already on a peace path but deliberatley attacked by the PAD.

Hun Sen is hot tempered but he spoke his heart.

We should not forget that Abhisit and the army went different ways since the beginning of the recent clashes. I think the fact that there're 400 000 Chinese expats in Cambodia has made them more careful now and I hope that they will continue peacefully.

Anyway, Abhisit is the outgoing PM and most likely another one will take his place. Lets see how that one can co-operate with the armed forces. There're plenty of gentlemen in the armed forces. Lets all hope to see the right ones in charge.

Complying doesn't mean agreeing. Thailand didn't agree with the judgment, but they complied with it and removed their troops from the temple. If they agreed with it, why would they have fought the case in the first place?

Thailand isn't asking the ICJ to change their judgment. The current dispute is about land surrounding the temple and other land along the border, which the ICJ did not rule on.

Do you expect the next PM (Abhisit or not) to just walk away from the disputed land without a (legal, not army) fight?

Edited May 7, 2011 by whybother

[elcent]

Elcent -- if you think Hun Sen is doing anything but posturing, and trying to set up things for a close friend AND the contested marine areas .......

Abhisit rightly pointed out that troops at PV are not legal, that under the 2000 MOU troops or settlers in the disputed areas are not allowed etc ...

The 2000 MOU was made under Thaksin and strongly opposed and ignored by Abhisit's mentors the PAD,

[whybother]

Elcent -- if you think Hun Sen is doing anything but posturing, and trying to set up things for a close friend AND the contested marine areas .......

Abhisit rightly pointed out that troops at PV are not legal, that under the 2000 MOU troops or settlers in the disputed areas are not allowed etc ...

The 2000 MOU was made under Thaksin and strongly opposed and ignored by Abhisit's mentors the PAD,

And they still oppose it. What's that got to do with it? It's still an agreement between the two countries.

[elcent]

As mentioned by Prime Minister Hun Sen, there were maps that were referred to and there was a ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in 1962. The ICJ, however, made it clear that the mentioned map was not the work of the Siamese-French Mixed Commission of Delimitation. The ICJ delivered a judgment in 1962 and although Thailand did not agree with it, we complied with the judgment since 1962. Military and police personnel were withdrawn from the Temple and its vicinity since 1962. This was undertaken in a transparent manner, recognized by the international community and Cambodia. And there have been no problems for decades.

lots of hot air. Just this paragraph says a lot. Thailand didn't agree but complied with the judgement. Mr Abhisit, this is an agreement, nothing more nothing less and so be it. Hold on to this and there will be no troubles. The ICJ will not change a judgment made decades ago. Live with it and make the best out of it. It was already on a peace path but deliberatley attacked by the PAD.

Hun Sen is hot tempered but he spoke his heart.

We should not forget that Abhisit and the army went different ways since the beginning of the recent clashes. I think the fact that there're 400 000 Chinese expats in Cambodia has made them more careful now and I hope that they will continue peacefully.

Anyway, Abhisit is the outgoing PM and most likely another one will take his place. Lets see how that one can co-operate with the armed forces. There're plenty of gentlemen in the armed forces. Lets all hope to see the right ones in charge.

Complying doesn't mean agreeing. Thailand didn't agree with the judgment, but they complied with it and removed their troops from the temple. If they agreed with it, why would they have fought the case in the first place?

Thailand isn't asking the ICJ to change their judgment. The current dispute is about land surrounding the temple and other land along the border, which the ICJ did not rule on.

Do you expect the next PM (Abhisit or not) to just walk away from the disputed land without a (legal, not army) fight?

I'm not an expert, but I believe if you comply to a judgment then you're agreeing. It's not what you wish for or think, - it's an agreement and you show it when you comply with it. Otherwise why would they have withdrawn at all.

[jdinasia]

Elcent -- if you think Hun Sen is doing anything but posturing, and trying to set up things for a close friend AND the contested marine areas .......

Abhisit rightly pointed out that troops at PV are not legal, that under the 2000 MOU troops or settlers in the disputed areas are not allowed etc ...

The 2000 MOU was made under Thaksin and strongly opposed and ignored by Abhisit's mentors the PAD,

Abhisit's "mentors"? LOL --- elcent if you think ANY PM would want to be closely tied to a fringe group of any type....... Even Thaksin wouldn't want to have his hands tied by the red shirts. Thankfully he won't be back any time soon.

Again .... under the 2000 MOU Cambodian or Thai settlers are not allowed in the area, Cambodian or Thai troops are not allowed in the disputed area ... Thais haven't moved in to settle there nor have Thai troops set up bases there. The same cannot be said about the Khmers. Is there massive desire on some people's parts to do away with the 2000 MOU? Yes. Why? The Khmers have not kept their side of it ...

again this is simply posturing by Hun Sen leading into far different border disputes that will include some lucrative gas deposits.

[elcent]

Elcent -- if you think Hun Sen is doing anything but posturing, and trying to set up things for a close friend AND the contested marine areas .......

Abhisit rightly pointed out that troops at PV are not legal, that under the 2000 MOU troops or settlers in the disputed areas are not allowed etc ...

The 2000 MOU was made under Thaksin and strongly opposed and ignored by Abhisit's mentors the PAD,

And they still oppose it. What's that got to do with it? It's still an agreement between the two countries.

Exactly! They still oppose it and had lots of war-mongering going on. And this is the reason for the recent armed clashes where Abhisit was just an onlooker.

[elcent]

Elcent -- if you think Hun Sen is doing anything but posturing, and trying to set up things for a close friend AND the contested marine areas .......

Abhisit rightly pointed out that troops at PV are not legal, that under the 2000 MOU troops or settlers in the disputed areas are not allowed etc ...

The 2000 MOU was made under Thaksin and strongly opposed and ignored by Abhisit's mentors the PAD,

Abhisit's "mentors"? LOL --- elcent if you think ANY PM would want to be closely tied to a fringe group of any type....... Even Thaksin wouldn't want to have his hands tied by the red shirts. Thankfully he won't be back any time soon.

Again .... under the 2000 MOU Cambodian or Thai settlers are not allowed in the area, Cambodian or Thai troops are not allowed in the disputed area ... Thais haven't moved in to settle there nor have Thai troops set up bases there. The same cannot be said about the Khmers. Is there massive desire on some people's parts to do away with the 2000 MOU? Yes. Why? The Khmers have not kept their side of it ...

again this is simply posturing by Hun Sen leading into far different border disputes that will include some lucrative gas deposits.

Explains the wish for four German subs.

[whybother]

I'm not an expert, but I believe if you comply to a judgment then you're agreeing. It's not what you wish for or think, - it's an agreement and you show it when you comply with it. Otherwise why would they have withdrawn at all.

Yep. All those people in jail agree that they're guilty. Thaksin agrees that he's guilty of corruption because he handed over all his "hard earned" cash.

I believe you are wrong. You are complying with a judgment, whether you agree with it or not.

[whybother]

Exactly! They still oppose it and had lots of war-mongering going on. And this is the reason for the recent armed clashes where Abhisit was just an onlooker.

The PAD oppose it. Abhisit says that it's necessary to move forward.

The army are fighting because they believe that the Cambodian army and people are on disputed territory, which the MOU says they shouldn't be.

The MOU is an agreement between Thailand and Cambodia, which the Cambodians don't appear to be complying with.

[elcent]

Exactly! They still oppose it and had lots of war-mongering going on. And this is the reason for the recent armed clashes where Abhisit was just an onlooker.

The PAD oppose it. Abhisit says that it's necessary to move forward.

The army are fighting because they believe that the Cambodian army and people are on disputed territory, which the MOU says they shouldn't be.

The MOU is an agreement between Thailand and Cambodia, which the Cambodians don't appear to be complying with.

Let people handle it that have more info on details than we do. There're most likely other people and nations intermingling too.

In Bangkok for example when you live in an apartment or condo and use their PABX system( I think most do), - a telephone line where you need to dial 9 for a free line. Calls are recorded for 6 months right in the office of the building. The most common used systems are the Brritish "Nice" or the bigger one from Israel. Do you think you're protected ? There's no law that prohibits that. I was talking to the Thai-owner of that business one time. He openly commited that there's no law after I expressed my concern.

[whybother]

Exactly! They still oppose it and had lots of war-mongering going on. And this is the reason for the recent armed clashes where Abhisit was just an onlooker.

The PAD oppose it. Abhisit says that it's necessary to move forward.

The army are fighting because they believe that the Cambodian army and people are on disputed territory, which the MOU says they shouldn't be.

The MOU is an agreement between Thailand and Cambodia, which the Cambodians don't appear to be complying with.

Let people handle it that have more info on details than we do. There're most likely other people and nations intermingling too.

In Bangkok for example when you live in an apartment or condo and use their PABX system( I think most do), - a telephone line where you need to dial 9 for a free line. Calls are recorded for 6 months right in the office of the building. The most common used systems are the Brritish "Nice" or the bigger one from Israel. Do you think you're protected ? There's no law that prohibits that. I was talking to the Thai-owner of that business one time. He openly commited that there's no law after I expressed my concern.

[geriatrickid]

I'd rather Hun Sen "explode" in a non military manner. Having a discourse at a meeting is much better than seeing Thai and Cambodians shelling each other or worse.

Hun Sen has secured backroom support from key regional allies; china and Vietnam. The diplomatic manouvering has been in high gear for the past 6 months. Vietnam has a long standing relationship with Russia, Make no mistake that Hun Sen will receive the tacit support of the Chinese in whatever he does. Vietnam will keep the Russians in line. Even the USA and Australia have had naval visits and training exchanges (e.g. USS Essex).

If anyone has been paying attention, the Cambodian embassies in the EU, NZ, Australia and North America have been in overdrive getting their message out. Call it a preemptive diplomatic strike. Thailand has not been keeping pace with the Cambodian diplomatic efforts The diplomatic activity doesn't mean that Cambodia is right in all that it says, or even that these foreign governments like Hun Sen. It's just that hee's been lining his ducks up in a row and Thailand seems to be oblivious. Its Cambodia that is giving presentation upon presentation to international charities and NGOs about the situation in an effort to create sympathy and support. Everyone knows what Hun Sen was and still is. Unfortunately, Thailand doesn't seem to appreciate what is going on.

The end result is a blank foreign reaction to the Thai position. PM Abhisit, gave an intelligent, thoughtful response. Unfortunately, his statement was a reaction. The foreign governments weren't listening.. Cambodian has been on the attack diplomatically around the world while Thailand has been unable to organize a proper strategy. My hunch is that PM Abhisit is having a tough time dealing with the hardcore "nationalist" group on his side, and the bickering and disputes prevent PM Abhisit from employing a targeted starategy. This is one time where I do sympathize with PM Abhisit, as I do not believe he wants conflict.

Edited May 7, 2011 by geriatrickid

[jdinasia]

Let people handle it that have more info on details than we do. There're most likely other people and nations intermingling too.

In Bangkok for example when you live in an apartment or condo and use their PABX system( I think most do), - a telephone line where you need to dial 9 for a free line. Calls are recorded for 6 months right in the office of the building. The most common used systems are the Brritish "Nice" or the bigger one from Israel. Do you think you're protected ? There's no law that prohibits that. I was talking to the Thai-owner of that business one time. He openly commited that there's no law after I expressed my concern.

??????????

The MOU etc are all on record (as is not harboring troops at PV etc) ... the disputed marine territory is a matter of record too elcent ...

as for phone-lines in condos? What does that have to do with the topic, and I doubt the reality of your claim

[jdinasia]

I'd rather Hun Sen "explode" in a non military manner. Having a discourse at a meeting is much better than seeing Thai and Cambodians shelling each other or worse.

Hun Sen has secured backroom support from key regional allies; china and Vietnam. The diplomatic manouvering has been in high gear for the past 6 months. Vietnam has a long standing relationship with Russia, Make no mistake that Hun Sen will receive the tacit support of the Chinese in whatever he does. Vietnam will keep the Russians in line. Even the USA and Australia have had naval visits and training exchanges (e.g. USS Essex).

If anyone has been paying attention, the Cambodian embassies in the EU, NZ, Australia and North America have been in overdrive getting their message out. Call it a preemptive diplomatic strike. Thailand has not been keeping pace with the Cambodian diplomatic efforts The diplomatic activity doesn't mean that Cambodia is right in all that it says, or even that these foreign governments like Hun Sen. It's just that hee's been lining his ducks up in a row and Thailand seems to be oblivious. Its Cambodia that is giving presentation upon presentation to international charities and NGOs about the situation in an effort to create sympathy and support. Everyone knows what Hun Sen was and still is. Unfortunately, Thailand doesn't seem to appreciate what is going on.

The end result is a blank foreign reaction to the Thai position. PM Abhisit, gave an intelligent, thoughtful response. Unfortunately, his statement was a reaction. The foreign governments weren't listening.. Cambodian has been on the attack diplomatically around the world while Thailand has been unable to organize a proper strategy. My hunch is that PM Abhisit is having a tough time dealing with the hardcore "nationalist" group on his side, and the bickering and disputes prevent PM Abhisit from employing a targeted starategy. This is one time where I do sympathize with PM Abhisit, as I do not believe he wants conflict.

Hun Sen has China and Vietnam backing him now? LOL

[ballpoint]

Elcent -- if you think Hun Sen is doing anything but posturing, and trying to set up things for a close friend AND the contested marine areas .......

Abhisit rightly pointed out that troops at PV are not legal, that under the 2000 MOU troops or settlers in the disputed areas are not allowed etc ...

The 2000 MOU was made under Thaksin and strongly opposed and ignored by Abhisit's mentors the PAD,

This is typical of the current dispute. A bunch of people clueless to the original ICJ decision and/or the 2000 MOU jumping in and making false statements. The 2000 MOU was signed, as the name would suggest, in 2000. Thaksin became PM in 2001. The document was signed on the Thai side by Sukhumband Paribatra, the deputy minister of foreign affairs and long standing Democrat Party member, who just happens to be the current governor of Bangkok, again running under the Democrat banner. The PAD weren't even around back then, so they could hardly have "strongly opposed" it at the time.

[elcent]

I'd rather Hun Sen "explode" in a non military manner. Having a discourse at a meeting is much better than seeing Thai and Cambodians shelling each other or worse.

Hun Sen has secured backroom support from key regional allies; china and Vietnam. The diplomatic manouvering has been in high gear for the past 6 months. Vietnam has a long standing relationship with Russia, Make no mistake that Hun Sen will receive the tacit support of the Chinese in whatever he does. Vietnam will keep the Russians in line. Even the USA and Australia have had naval visits and training exchanges (e.g. USS Essex).

If anyone has been paying attention, the Cambodian embassies in the EU, NZ, Australia and North America have been in overdrive getting their message out. Call it a preemptive diplomatic strike. Thailand has not been keeping pace with the Cambodian diplomatic efforts The diplomatic activity doesn't mean that Cambodia is right in all that it says, or even that these foreign governments like Hun Sen. It's just that hee's been lining his ducks up in a row and Thailand seems to be oblivious. Its Cambodia that is giving presentation upon presentation to international charities and NGOs about the situation in an effort to create sympathy and support. Everyone knows what Hun Sen was and still is. Unfortunately, Thailand doesn't seem to appreciate what is going on.

The end result is a blank foreign reaction to the Thai position. PM Abhisit, gave an intelligent, thoughtful response. Unfortunately, his statement was a reaction. The foreign governments weren't listening.. Cambodian has been on the attack diplomatically around the world while Thailand has been unable to organize a proper strategy. My hunch is that PM Abhisit is having a tough time dealing with the hardcore "nationalist" group on his side, and the bickering and disputes prevent PM Abhisit from employing a targeted starategy. This is one time where I do sympathize with PM Abhisit, as I do not believe he wants conflict.

Well put and to the point.

[elcent]

Elcent -- if you think Hun Sen is doing anything but posturing, and trying to set up things for a close friend AND the contested marine areas .......

Abhisit rightly pointed out that troops at PV are not legal, that under the 2000 MOU troops or settlers in the disputed areas are not allowed etc ...

The 2000 MOU was made under Thaksin and strongly opposed and ignored by Abhisit's mentors the PAD,

This is typical of the current dispute. A bunch of people clueless to the original ICJ decision and/or the 2000 MOU jumping in and making false statements. The 2000 MOU was signed, as the name would suggest, in 2000. Thaksin became PM in 2001. The document was signed on the Thai side by Sukhumband Paribatra, the deputy minister of foreign affairs and long standing Democrat Party member, who just happens to be the current governor of Bangkok, again running under the Democrat banner. The PAD weren't even around back then, so they could hardly have "strongly opposed" it at the time.

The mob wasn't around that's right, The PAD core was. Search the Wiki of all PAD leaders and their history. But hoping for a piece of cake from Thaksin has shut them up for years until they got hungry again.

I think it will subside like the fire truck issue. How many people joined and used this issue as arguement. Why has is subsided?

[whybother]

The mob wasn't around that's right, The PAD core was. Search the Wiki of all PAD leaders and their history. But hoping for a piece of cake from Thaksin has shut them up for years until they got hungry again.

I think it will subside like the fire truck issue. How many people joined and used this issue as arguement. Why has is subsided?

Yes, I'm sure they were all born before the 2000 MOU was signed, but no mention on Sondhi's wiki page about the MOU, let alone around 2000.

You've obviously seen something on wiki about the PAD leaders and them opposing the MOU (pre-PAD times, of course). Maybe you can point out where on the info is on wiki.

[jdinasia]

The mob wasn't around that's right, The PAD core was. Search the Wiki of all PAD leaders and their history. But hoping for a piece of cake from Thaksin has shut them up for years until they got hungry again.

I think it will subside like the fire truck issue. How many people joined and used this issue as arguement. Why has is subsided?

Yes, I'm sure they were all born before the 2000 MOU was signed, but no mention on Sondhi's wiki page about the MOU, let alone around 2000.

You've obviously seen something on wiki about the PAD leaders and them opposing the MOU (pre-PAD times, of course). Maybe you can point out where on the info is on wiki.

Exactly when did our favorite newspaper/ASTV/Manager.com friend split with Thaksin? For that matter when did Chamlong and Thaksin have their falling out?

Elcent --- relax about the founders of the PAD and the MOU in 2000 ... there's nothing there

[elcent]

The mob wasn't around that's right, The PAD core was. Search the Wiki of all PAD leaders and their history. But hoping for a piece of cake from Thaksin has shut them up for years until they got hungry again.

I think it will subside like the fire truck issue. How many people joined and used this issue as arguement. Why has is subsided?

Yes, I'm sure they were all born before the 2000 MOU was signed, but no mention on Sondhi's wiki page about the MOU, let alone around 2000.

You've obviously seen something on wiki about the PAD leaders and them opposing the MOU (pre-PAD times, of course). Maybe you can point out where on the info is on wiki.

sorry, but too many websites censored.

Here a copy of the MoU http://khmerbird.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/mou-2000-eng-1.pdf