Bedbug Toxin 'Likely' Cause Of Sarah Carter's Death

[venturalaw]

Hence the often reference of Third-world country.

[EODghost]

Its all down to Education, Education , Education, as we have been told in Britain by a famous English Politician Margret Thatcher. and i think its true, if the Thai government spent money on education in stead of pointless adverts thats are on every night, at 7pm and 8pm on all the TV channels.You cannot blame the people for ignorance because they know no different , I have been laughed at because i get mosquito bites and it makes me concerned, Try tell the Thai people about dengue fever, even though many people die every year they seem not to understand..Why not have TV adverts explaining simple things about health issues. like coughs and sneezes , the basic things about general hygiene. the rest should follow. but again every thing is down to Money.

I recently updated my vaccinations (Tetanus, Hep A and B The response from my Thai friends. ""What's wrong with you, why you get so many shots???"

There's no such thing as preventative medicine to most of these people.

Edited May 8, 2011 by EODghost

[hansnl]

Google bed bugs in Khon Kaen and be forewarned.

Sometimes I find a very big bedbug in my bed.

And I live in KK

Pray, tell me what to do now?

[hansnl]

Its all down to Education, Education , Education, as we have been told in Britain by a famous English Politician Margret Thatcher. and i think its true, if the Thai government spent money on education in stead of pointless adverts thats are on every night, at 7pm and 8pm on all the TV channels.You cannot blame the people for ignorance because they know no different , I have been laughed at because i get mosquito bites and it makes me concerned, Try tell the Thai people about dengue fever, even though many people die every year they seem not to understand..Why not have TV adverts explaining simple things about health issues. like coughs and sneezes , the basic things about general hygiene. the rest should follow. but again every thing is down to Money.

I guess education is important.

But what happens if the students are not interested in education?

Or are unable to concentrate for more than 5 minutes?

[mrdome]

I wonder if a test for this can be made that any traveler could easily do. I had never even considered this as a serious threat and I still come to Thailand and the surrounding countries every year. This is just horrible.

[EyesWideOpen]

For a country so concerned about face, they are just about to lose a massive amount of it. That is the ultimate nightmare for Thai tourism, for this to be broadcast on 60 Minutes. This incident is Thailand at it's worst. Cover things up, and wait for it to go away. This in not mai pen rai, this is bordering on criminal stupidity. For deaths to keep occurring, do nothing, and then have government officials make statements that this is all coincidental is an insult to the intelligence. They had a chance to clean house themselves with the first death and they did not. Now time for broken face........

[sirchai]

"It's still pretty horrific that they have such low standards that that can happen," he said.

Is he talking about pesticide use or the wonderful police report blaming the guests?

It's very tragic that other countries had to come with an answer. But it fits into the educational and medical environment of this country almost perfectly.

I had the lovely experience to have a well educated doctor who said he could do the OP after a motorcycle accident. But he couldn't.

I'd like to know how many more had died in the Death Inn. RIP to the deceased and let's hope that it will never happen. :jap:

[BuckarooBanzai]

There is a big difference between corruption and manslaughter. This leans towards the latter and perhaps people should be held accountable..

To think things are still open without inspection is despicable.

Edited May 8, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[hardy1943]

It was still inexcusable the hotel remained open after continuing deaths. Cheapo owners excuse to control poor house cleaning issues. And of course there will be no prosecution other than possibly the exterminators being taken down as the hotel owner is related to people 'in uniform'.

Why? As long the owners can buy the agent legally, Thailand, ore their politicians are responsible for the deaths. Just walk to your next Carrefour, or TESCO. You still can buy floorcleaners with "nanophenols" in them, which causes birth defects. Moreover, the people in thailand walk barefeet on their floor or tiles. This "ingredient" is outlawed in Europe since ages.

It is the never ending story of "mai pen rai",the ignorance and inactivity of the Thai government, as those guys are only interested in how Thailand can be exploited to their own advantage.

Could not agree more.Who knows who is involved in the import export business in government or their relatives and makes sure everyone looks the other way. Consumer protection and safety standards are non existing because it protects the masses not the few privileged that have the money and power.

[softgeorge]

Nice work. Now the authorities will hopefully ban the use of this substance in LOS. Wonder if this same agent was a factor in the Koh Phiphi GH deaths as well?

Why? Just because people died do you really think anything will change?

[sirchai]

I am glad the family has answers, although I am sure it is of little comfort.

So much for the coincidence theory.

So much about the whole country. Should be a warning on a ticket to Thailand now: "Traveling to this country could be very dangerous for your health, or might kill you."

My deepest condolences to the deceased.

Fits perfectly to all the educational and medical underdeveloped faculties.

Please be aware that having an accident could be also very harmful for you. I mean after the doctors treatment. Happened to me and so many others. Two years to recover. Sad but true.....:jap:

[tigermonkey]

So they ( 60 Minutes) have found a possible cause of the deaths . They are only telling part of the story. It is only A POSSIBLE cause.

Dow Chemical has been marketing chlorpyrifos for more than a decade worldwide. It is one of the most widely used insecticides in the world. Dow has been fined in the USA for misrepresentation, and charged with bribery associated with it s sale in India. It is only banned from indoor use in some countires , but continues to be used everywhere for agriculture.

"A body burden study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found TCPy, a metabolite specific to chlorpyrifos, in the urine of 91% of people tested." Yes, 91 % of people tested in the USA showed traces of chlorpyrifos.

The symptoms, in the woman's death, certainly match for chlorpyrifos poisoning, but it is so widespread everywhere, I would be more surprised if 60 Minutes had found no traces of chlorpyrifos.

It will be interesting to see if 60 Minutes has enough evidence to present a television segment about this -- so far they have not shown enough evidence.

Don't bash Thailand about this -- chlorpyrifos is everywhere.

Edited May 8, 2011 by tigermonkey

[creck]

Anybody know the trade name of some sprays containing chlorpyrifos?

[trogers]

For god's sake, this is the tropics. Sunning the infested furniture and beddings will get rid of those bedbugs. Why the need for chemicals?

[lberk]

It is unfortunate that people die suddenly as a result of gross negligence and greed committed by others, and those at fault should pay the price for their actions. But the more unfortunate fact is that everyone living in Thailand is currently a dead man walking. This country is killing itself with its pollution - leaded gas and paint; asbestos; chemical dumping; pesticides, fertilizers and herbicides leaching into the waterways; decimation of forests creating mudslides and erosion; and incredibly short-sighted farming practices that leave the land fallow after a decade of rape. Not all of it can be laid at the feet of ignorance, although it is a factor. We can blame the lack of education, or the lack of understanding in the common person as to cause and effect, but the truth is that much of Thai society is just trying to survive from day-to-day, and survival mode hardly facilitates change.

The Thai bureaucracy is, by any standard, one of the most byzantine in the modern world, and helps foment this survival mode mentality. The incredible corruption, at all levels of government, strips away any incentive that the individual might have to create a vehicle for change. It burdens growth, kills creation and stifles their economy. And yet, this country remains a Land Of Smiles. Its people, on the whole still embrace and share "jai dee" - and is one of the main reasons we farangs continue to live here. We (read ex-pats) continually complain about the lack of positive change, the lack of a critical and effective legislative branch, and the deficiency of basic rights ensuring equality for all citizens, including foreign guests, but we also stay and enjoy our special status. Perhaps we need to embrace a sense of compassion in our perspective, and stop deriding and denigrating the Thai people because they are acting like "Thais", and not acting like Americans, Europeans, Australians or even Japanese or Koreans.

This country is a Buddhist country, but it is forgetting, and or modifying the teachings of the Buddha so as to suit its needs. One can hardly blame them, and it is not the first, nor will it be the last to do so. All religious doctrine evolves to suit the needs of its populace. It is just unfortunate that we, again meaning 1st world countries, continue to export ideology that is based upon the preeminence of materialism as the answer to our basic human needs. We create the false image that our way not only is the "best" way, but also the "only" way to elevate the human condition. Please don't get me wrong, I am a capitalist at heart, and have the economic battle scars to prove it, but as the Buddha said "we create our suffering", and at the moment I feel as if we farangs have helped to create some of the common Thai person's suffering. Yes, we can, and should, become outraged at the deaths of farangs like Sarah, but let us not stop there. We should be outraged at the philosophical as well as physical deaths of the Thai people as well. As my grandfather used to say to me, "Screaming at the grass won't make it grow any faster". Let's stop screaming at things we can't change, and focus on those we can. If you want to complain, then while so doing, please also make the commitment to implement a strategy that might help facilitate change beneficial to your Thai brother and sister.

[Ulysses G.]

Bedbugs are difficult to exterminate. They are tough little critters. At a minimum, rooms that have been sprayed need to be left unoccupied for several days and very well ventilated. They also need a thorough cleaning before being rented again.

Bedbugs can live in bedding, including the mattresses, which would probably need to be disposed of. Can you imagine sleeping with your face in a mattress full of a dangerous chemical?

Correct.

This makes a lot of sense. One has to cover everything carefully with plastic and fumigate any infected rooms. My guess is that someone was not at all careful.

[mrdome]

It's "60 Minutes" New Zealand, not the US program you are talking about.

Interesting that the reported tests were performed by "current affairs television program," "60 Minutes." That's a somewhat serious and popular news program back in the states (likely one of the best offered there; I think they've had Obama on a couple of times), so this sorta suggests there could be a 20 minute news segment concerning "Deaths at the Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai" aired back in the states. Maybe it'll make it to youtube, if such is indeed ever aired.

[mrdome]

"Chlorpyrifos has been around for fifty years and has, till very recently, been passed off by the company that manufactures it as being safe for human health. Dow Chemical Company, USA has been distributing its products under the brand names Lorsban and Dursban around the world."

A longer list:

"3M Livestock Premise Spray, Dursban, Disvap Mec, Lorsban, Pyrifos, Pyrate, Pyrinex. "

I wonder what it is sold under in Thailand and other Asian countries.

Edited May 8, 2011 by mrdome

[folium]

What's really tragic is that below is a review of the Downtown Inn from Tripadvisor dated 25 Feb 2010:

"The hotel and room were a bit dog-eared, but nothing we couldn't overlook. The price was very reasonable and we're seasoned travellers who aren't overly picky. Our room had twin beds... no problem. After climbing in and starting to fall asleep, I kept thinking mosquitoes were biting me... and then I thought I felt something tiny run across my shoulder, then my leg. I thought I was imagining it and eventually fell asleep. In the morning my husband's ankles and legs were covered in little red dots that were itching him like crazy. He'd gotten it worse than me. He identified them as "definitely bed bugs". Since we were checking out super early, we didn't bother making a big fuss about it... but I definitely wouldn't stay there again." Seems the management went overboard in their response

As ever the key thing now is the response by the Thai authorities. Does the rule of law have any credence in this country? Are people ever held responsible for their actions?

What all of you need to be thinking is "there, but for the grace of god, go I", ie this could happen to you, your family or friends. It is not Thailand bashing, it is a refusal to accept that a country like Thailand can continue to operate without respect or regard for common, decent safety and security. It's not a cultural thing, Asia is world-leading in many ways, why cannot the rule of law be a part of everyday life?

I

Edited May 8, 2011 by Scott
correction on name of hotel

[featography]

Here's some info on this chemical's status in the U.S.:

For Release: November 30, 2010

EPA is seeking public comment until December 20, 2010 on a draft stipulation in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York that will stay further litigation with the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) on their claim that EPA has unreasonably delayed its response to their 2007 petition to cancel all uses and revoke all tolerances for the pesticide chlorpyrifos. Under the draft Stipulation and Order, the case will be suspended, provided (1) EPA issues a preliminary human health risk assessment for chlorpyrifos by June 1, 2011, and requests comment on that assessment; and (2) EPA sends NRDC and PANNA a written response to their petition by November 23, 2011. If the lawsuit is not reactivated by January 23, 2012, it will be dismissed.

http://epa.gov/oppfe...s-petition.html

Also EPA fact sheet on chlorpyrifos

http://www.epa.gov/o...rpyrifos_fs.htm

Health Effects

• Chlorpyrifos can cause cholinesterase inhibition in humans; that is, it can overstimulate the nervous system causing nausea, dizziness, confusion, and at very high exposures (e.g., accidents or major spills), respiratory paralysis and death.

• In June, 2000, the Agency entered into an agreement with the technical registrants to eliminate virtually all homeowner uses, except ant and roach baits in child resistent packaging.

• Residential postapplication exposures may occur after termiticide use in residential structures. To mitigate risks from this use, the technical registrants agreed in June 2000 to limit termiticide treatments to 0.5% solution, and cancel all postconstruction uses. Pre-construction use will remain until 2005, unless acceptable exposure data are submitted that show that residential postapplication risks from this use are not a concern.

Also:

If you decide to kill the bed bugs yourself, apply an insecticide that is specifically labeled for bed bug management. Apply to hiding places around base boards, door and wall moldings and floor boards. Caution: NEVER USE ANY INSECTICIDE ON A MATTRESS - unless the label specifically refers to application to a mattress. Most insect sprays are not registered for application to mattresses. People often opt rather to discard the mattress.

http://www.bed-bug.o...s-for-bed-bugs/

Thats interesting. Does anyone know that Thailand mattress manufacturers impregnate them with an insecticide to prevent bed bugs? I discovered this 4 yrs ago and wondered if it had anything to do with the wife and I not getting quality sleep, ever. Save the sharp witty comments about poor sleep due to something else popular in bed, thank you very much. Besides we all know that after enjoying that other favorite purpose of the bed, we tend to sleep much better.

[moe666]

Just A Typical Thai Day and response and tragedy in Thailand

This countries biggest embarrassment and weakness is lack of education

Ofcourse, Ingnorance, Arrogance, Egotistical Face, Laziness, Narrow mindedness, and the mai pen rai (i don't care with a smile)

All of the symptoms also due to a lack of education...

But for any teacher who knows what the schools are like here... you cannot teach a fish how to fly....

Why are you at a forum about Thailand.

[tigermonkey]

Anybody know the trade name of some sprays containing chlorpyrifos?

Brodan, Detmol UA, Dowco 179, Dursban, Empire, Eradex, Lorsban, Paqeant, Piridane, Scout, Stipend -- and many more. Some of these are liquids to be diluted for spraying, and some are prepared sprays.

[crusader79]

One wonders how many Thais have died over the years from improper use and handling of this chemical.

[creck]

Just A Typical Thai Day and response and tragedy in Thailand

This countries biggest embarrassment and weakness is lack of education

Ofcourse, Ingnorance, Arrogance, Egotistical Face, Laziness, Narrow mindedness, and the mai pen rai (i don't care with a smile)

All of the symptoms also due to a lack of education...

But for any teacher who knows what the schools are like here... you cannot teach a fish how to fly....

Why are you at a forum about Thailand.

Every tribe needs a misionary !!

[tigermonkey]

One wonders how many Thais have died over the years from improper use and handling of this chemical.

I am sure that many have died both from domestic and agricultural use of this product -- but not only in Thailand !

Dow Chemical sell this vile, dangerous ( BUT HIGHLY PROFITABLE) product extensively worldwide

Edited May 8, 2011 by tigermonkey

[BarnicaleBob]

It is a real shame, especially when we know it is possible to get rid of bed bugs without the use of chemicals. There are machines that can heat the infested areas to 58 degrees C. and all the bed bugs and their eggs will die.

[Credo]

UG: you suggested covering things with plastic. That doesn't work. These little critters can live almost everywhere. The bedding would have to be completely disinfected and the pillows and mattresses probably destroyed. Because much of Thai construction is made of concrete, it's probably easier to control them than in countries with wooden construction. They can live in the walls. The area around electrical plugs and water pipes would have to be sprayed as well. Whether this is the cause of the death of the girl or not, I doubt that we can be certain, but the number of people who died at the hotel and the Thai explanation of 'coincidence' is not likely. Do the authorities expect everyone to just forget about their loved ones?Hopefully, the gov't and the tourism association(s) will issue guidelines for how to deal with bedbug infestations. I remember a few years ago when they were blaming foreigners for bringing them on trains.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Scott
formatting/Scott

[featography]

It is a real shame, especially when we know it is possible to get rid of bed bugs without the use of chemicals. There are machines that can heat the infested areas to 58 degrees C. and all the bed bugs and their eggs will die.

IN Thailand?!?!?!?

[dunkin2012]

It was still inexcusable the hotel remained open after continuing deaths. Cheapo owners excuse to control poor house cleaning issues. And of course there will be no prosecution other than possibly the exterminators being taken down as the hotel owner is related to people 'in uniform'.

Is it still open.....???

it is and with 75% off.

Please if ya have 9 lives to count and

6 feet from the edge.

[Tywais]

60 Minutes New Zealand Video here