Rubber Trees

[thaiguzzi]

Cup prices in Udon province yesterday;

on the gate 14.8 baht per kg.

auction 16.8 baht per kg.

Recently opened crepe factory just up the road from us 19.5 baht per kg.

So we decided to give them a go, met Mr. Boss Man, got the set up explained, and he let us throw the first weight in and check the weight after the procedure. In went 35 kgs of cup, out the other end came 31.8 kgs of crepe sheet, rolled into two rolls. That's a 9.1% loss in weight. DRC etc etc.

16.8 x 35 (auction) = 588 baht.

19.5 x 31.8 (crepe) = 620 baht.

So we unloaded the whole lot off the truck and fed it through the machine.

I'll post some pics up in the next day or two.

[thaiguzzi]

Local rumour/gossip is that at the next auction, there will be no bidders. The army are coming up as a one off and buying the lot...??...!!...

[thaiguzzi]

As promised, a few crepe pics;

delivery;

the machinery;

[thaiguzzi]

Cup going in at one end;

Being mashed;

Crepe sheet in a roll coming out the other end;

And weighed;

[Issangeorge]

Anyone have any idea how much one cup of latex weighs?

[Dakling]

Density is about .9g/cm3 so if you have a 250ml cup it would be about 225g. A standard US measuring cup is about 225ml so now you are looking at a touch over 200g. This is for dry straight latex so if you have water in it it will be a bit heavier for the same volume.

[thaiguzzi]

Anyone have any idea how much one cup of latex weighs?

How long is a piece of string?

You've got porcelain cups, coconut shell cups, and the most common cups - plastic.

Plastic cups come in 4 sizes, D1, D2, D3 and the largest Plas Plus, all marked on the outside of the cup.

Then you've got DRC (dry rubber content) to contend with ie water/latex percentages, age of the tree etc etc.

So, see what i mean by how long is a piece of string?

[Issangeorge]

Thanks, I was just wondering, because down the road from me the sap is running, and I was just interested in buying 1 cup to play with it feel it that sort of thing, I have never felt raw latex before. I was just wondering what a fair price would be to offer for 1 cup?

[cobbler]

Thanks, I was just wondering, because down the road from me the sap is running, and I was just interested in buying 1 cup to play with it feel it that sort of thing, I have never felt raw latex before. I was just wondering what a fair price would be to offer for 1 cup?

geeeeeze maybe 20 bart maximum. Can u afford that much 555 Edited January 31, 2016 by cobbler

[Issangeorge]

The price isn't the problem, I figured about ฿20 would be fair, but didn't want to insult the guy by going to low, more in likely he'd just give it to me anyway.

[thaiguzzi]

Interesting how it will pan out today on payday. Sold at auction yesterday, 2 buyers. One was the winning bidder @ 17.5 baht per kg, the other, was the military buying 150 kgs per farmer with correct paperwork and ID cards etc (basically all the people inc ourselves who applied for the earlier 1500 baht per rai grants thru the local Sor Kor Yor offices), at.... wait for it... 41 baht per kg, less DRC content. So we stuffed 6 bags into them (approx 300 kgs, 2 sets of paperwork), and we'll see how we get on later today...

[thaiguzzi]

Typical disorganised shambles run by clerks and military office workers who have'nt got a clue. Lap tops and computers with a poor internet connection. In the middle of the boondocks? Ya don't say. By early afternoon, most people inc our staff had had enough and bunged their allotted 150kgs into their pile with the normal winning auction bidders for a 17.30 baht per kg price. Crepe prices on offer locally were 18 and 20 baht per kg, which is where we are going next fortnight. One more 2 week tapping session for this season and that's it until April.

[thoongfoned]

Interesting how it will pan out today on payday. Sold at auction yesterday, 2 buyers. One was the winning bidder @ 17.5 baht per kg, the other, was the military buying 150 kgs per farmer with correct paperwork and ID cards etc (basically all the people inc ourselves who applied for the earlier 1500 baht per rai grants thru the local Sor Kor Yor offices), at.... wait for it... 41 baht per kg, less DRC content. So we stuffed 6 bags into them (approx 300 kgs, 2 sets of paperwork), and we'll see how we get on later today...

question: do you think that that was their "offer" re the 1500 baht or what ever it was per rai sub. ie extra money per kg for the cup? sounds like it too me. the wife was on about

that sub money the other day, I just laughed and said you really think they will pay out.......

[thaiguzzi]

No, the 1500 baht per rai thing dates back to Oct/Nov, and done via every Sor Kor Yor office. The deal is 15 rai per household, must have paperwork, land papers, ID cards, staff ID and house books, etc etc, lots of paperwork and form filling out. The deal is meant to be 900 baht to the land owners and 600 baht to the staff (tappers). Per rai. We've applied for 30, look like getting 28-29, it is on going and nearly complete. We were told end of Jan for a payout, now early Feb, still waiting but i believe it will happen.

As for the 150 kgs at a set price per household, that is a completely different thing, we've given up on that, complete waste of time.

[thoongfoned]

No, the 1500 baht per rai thing dates back to Oct/Nov, and done via every Sor Kor Yor office. The deal is 15 rai per household, must have paperwork, land papers, ID cards, staff ID and house books, etc etc, lots of paperwork and form filling out. The deal is meant to be 900 baht to the land owners and 600 baht to the staff (tappers). Per rai. We've applied for 30, look like getting 28-29, it is on going and nearly complete. We were told end of Jan for a payout, now early Feb, still waiting but i believe it will happen.

As for the 150 kgs at a set price per household, that is a completely different thing, we've given up on that, complete waste of time.

yep the wife has been jumping through all the paper work hops to get this like you say, the last I heard it was payment on the 30th jan - which was a sunday...... I said no

way is the money going to be paid on this day but the lady in the office said oh yes. I think the wife is down for the full 15 rai...... It would be nice to get something......one day.

[snowandpigs]

hi names chris from udon region,,, new on here and bit on pig forum ,, do both rubber and pigs ,, like to report we(the wife) were payed the 1500 per rai from govnt yesterday ,, has happened at long last ,,, any help with costs much appriciated at the moment with trees,,,,, saw comments on here about gas hormone use in trees ,, how it buggers the trees insides for later sale ,,, ,,we have started this practice this season and more than happy with it ,,, the sister in law runs a business that buys trees for harvest and preps for plywood market ,, she says no problem with trees been gassed for long period in its life ,,,she in fact prefers this to buy than tree thats been scared badly through cutting ,, ,,lot of wastage on outside i suspect ,,, this is info given from tree buyer so hope helps ,,, anyway i'll be long toes up before our trees are ready for the chop so not a factor were i sit ,,,,,

[thaiguzzi]

As a matter of interest, what is she paying for lumber? Are the trees coming in in 2 or 3m lengths, and does she buy the bigger branches or only trunks? Round here lately i've even seen large branches on the trucks, so i presume it's all off to the paper mills.

[thaiguzzi]

As a matter of interest, what is she paying for lumber? Are the trees coming in in 2 or 3m lengths, and does she buy the bigger branches or only trunks? Round here lately i've even seen large branches on the trucks, so i presume it's all off to the paper mills.

[cobbler]

They take the lot,leaves and roots excluded

[cobbler]

hi names chris from udon region,,, new on here and bit on pig forum ,, do both rubber and pigs ,, like to report we(the wife) were payed the 1500 per rai from govnt yesterday ,, has happened at long last ,,, any help with costs much appriciated at the moment with trees,,,,, saw comments on here about gas hormone use in trees ,, how it buggers the trees insides for later sale ,,, ,,we have started this practice this season and more than happy with it ,,, the sister in law runs a business that buys trees for harvest and preps for plywood market ,, she says no problem with trees been gassed for long period in its life ,,,she in fact prefers this to buy than tree thats been scared badly through cutting ,, ,,lot of wastage on outside i suspect ,,, this is info given from tree buyer so hope helps ,,, anyway i'll be long toes up before our trees are ready for the chop so not a factor were i sit ,,,,,

BWHHHHHHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA good luck buddy. I can show u trees down here, after being gassed for a few years,snap off at the trunk for no reason. Its a trade off.see what happens. Good luck. Edited February 16, 2016 by cobbler

[CLW]

Oil price went down recently, will the Rubber price follow?

[cobbler]

Oil price went down recently, will the Rubber price follow?

probably

[cobbler]

Snowandpigs useing gas or hormones on the trees is like this. Liquid latex is like the life blood of rubber trees. The trees use the liquid to make the tree strong,make the wood strong. Forcing more out of the tree than it can give naturally will destroy the tree. Its the same as if you donate blood and they suck more from you than your body can produce. You will die if done regularly.

I have seen some farms, gass or use hormones on trees when the tree is 25 or 27 years old. They will get a lot more rubber from the tree.They accept the trees will be probably worth nothing as the timber wont be strong . Also they accept they will have to clear the land when the trees are dead and pay for it themselves. This is the tradeoff for getting more rubber .

I dont know if you can understand the wood buyer telling you gassing is ok,or somebody else pass the message to you and got lost in translation. Or maybe somebody told you this because they want more money today and never mind the future.

Im not trying to insult you,just give advice.

Cheers Cobbler

[Dakling]

Oil price went down recently, will the Rubber price follow?

Not necessarily. Butadiene is a better predictor of synthetic rubber production cost and it is made from methane, butane and/or ethanol. So it is more closely tied to natural gas prices than oil prices.

Global rubber consumption seems to be continuing to grow at a slow but appreciable rate while supply is falling off (based on Malaysian gov't data). We won't see prices change overnight as there is a large inventory that will need to be cleared but it is likely that prices will improve going forward. Natural rubber production is no longer a cash cow and other cash crops are supplanting it (punny huh!). While it is true there was plenty of planting done in the past few years up in Issan, the trends elsewhere have been different. For farmers you can get similar returns from cassava, palm oil, sugar or other cash crops without the long wait time on your investment so very little rubber has been going in elsewhere for the past few years. It may take some time for the production numbers to reflect this but there is a certain percentage of trees that leave production every year and they are not currently being replaced. While there are some farms with 5 year old trees on them waiting to come into production there don't seem to be any out our way that have been planted in the past 2 or 3 years. Other than in 2008 and 2009 rubber consumption has gone up every year since 2001.

I have no idea what the price will do in 2016 but I will be very surprised if inventories don't go down somewhat this year. There is likely some supply that is elastic and will come back into the market if prices come up but I would imagine that rubber production is slow to react to these changes because of the long delay between planting and harvest. The actual global consumption and supply stats are really close to one another and it will only take a slight change for consumption to exceed demand and start to consume the inventory. It probably already has but the latest statistics I could find where based on Q3 2015 where supply and demand were equal but the trend showed a definite supply reduction with modest consumption growth.

Hopefully when folks get back to harvesting this year prices may come up a bit. I know there are no bigger pessimists and gripers in the world than farmers, and I wouldn't expect too much in 2016 but there is some reason to hope things might get better over the next few years.

On the other hand if we have another global recession like 2008 anytime soon, all bets are off.

[thoongfoned]

i don't think the price has hit the bottom yet re. rubber or oil. but i do think food stuff and living expenses are due to go up some more.....

[thaiguzzi]

Last sale of the season Tuesday just gone. Sold crepe @ 20 baht per kg. Cup was 16 baht per kg @ auction. Now painting the panels, trees having their 2 month holiday.

[thaiguzzi]

Cobbler is absolutely spot on with his comments in the above post, re hormones, gas etc, and anything else that alters output non-naturally. If you are in the rubber game long term, you leave the trees to work as mother nature intended, bar adding the usual organic and chemical fertilizers annually.

[scotbeve]

hi names chris from udon region,,, new on here and bit on pig forum ,, do both rubber and pigs ,, like to report we(the wife) were payed the 1500 per rai from govnt yesterday ,, has happened at long last ,,, any help with costs much appriciated at the moment with trees,,,,, saw comments on here about gas hormone use in trees ,, how it buggers the trees insides for later sale ,,, ,,we have started this practice this season and more than happy with it ,,, the sister in law runs a business that buys trees for harvest and preps for plywood market ,, she says no problem with trees been gassed for long period in its life ,,,she in fact prefers this to buy than tree thats been scared badly through cutting ,, ,,lot of wastage on outside i suspect ,,, this is info given from tree buyer so hope helps ,,, anyway i'll be long toes up before our trees are ready for the chop so not a factor were i sit ,,,,,

Hey rubberman....

We're getting our 1500/rai next week. Worked out good for us as there is a loophole in the subsidy rules.... A lot of family are "renters" of the plantations.

As I was saying before, I'm selling all 110 + rai of rubber plantations (including the farmhouse...). A few bites and 2 are serious. Was my plan before to sell some, but now with no profit (well... a tiny bit 80,000 last year nett / in pocket) we're gonna sell all. Sold the teak and was supposed to have a company come in and lease the land for a solar farm but that fell through for the company as the "govt" wanted re-bidding. FFSakes... Still (kinda) working. Gas in the trees is just a fast death - traditional tapping is the only way.. The trees do not have to be too big for timber market.

[snowandpigs]

Snowandpigs useing gas or hormones on the trees is like this. Liquid latex is like the life blood of rubber trees. The trees use the liquid to make the tree strong,make the wood strong. Forcing more out of the tree than it can give naturally will destroy the tree. Its the same as if you donate blood and they suck more from you than your body can produce. You will die if done regularly.

I have seen some farms, gass or use hormones on trees when the tree is 25 or 27 years old. They will get a lot more rubber from the tree.They accept the trees will be probably worth nothing as the timber wont be strong . Also they accept they will have to clear the land when the trees are dead and pay for it themselves. This is the tradeoff for getting more rubber .

I dont know if you can understand the wood buyer telling you gassing is ok,or somebody else pass the message to you and got lost in translation. Or maybe somebody told you this because they want more money today and never mind the future.

Im not trying to insult you,just give advice.

Cheers Cobbler

hi ,, i don't know the firm science of gas or not to gas ,,havn't read any creditable papers on long term tests done,,all i reason with i didn't go into rubber growing with the end game selling the trees as a factor ,, my outlook is to gain a return from farming them now not 20 or so years in future when i'll propably be dead anyway ,,doing gas latex has all the advantages i'm looking for ,, it suits me down to the ground to do all the work myself ,tried cutting but eyesight at night no good , no more paying for unrelieable workers a fair percentage of harvest every month ,, we gain far more latex for our efforts be it a poor price per kg at this time ,, cutters have been a big problem most seasons ,, even had one lot of cutters,the father in law who was doing chemical drink the stuff and kill himself ,,stories plenty have put up with ,, other thing i like about gas is very little harm done to trees bark ,,trees look a sorry sight after a few years getting hacked at ,esp by some cutters who don't give a butchers ,, back to selling trees, i hit sister in law up again about use of gas ,, she buys for plywood ,, says has had no props with wood from long time gased trees, thats her take on it for what its worth ,,, me i'll keep gasing ,,whatever method we each prefer to use i just wish us all the best with price climbing not to long away and markets settle upwards ,, but thats farming ,, regards

[cobbler]

Your trees buddy ,good luck.