Rubber Trees

[jamescollister]

ClausGS

As said, there was a threat on this maybe 2 years ago, For memory there was some big producer from Lao and a few others who could not find buyers.

Get back with your results on price and demand, never know I may plant some if there is a market. Jim

[Mark1971]

Claus,

There are a number of animals that are farmed inside rubber trees plantations.

Sheep.

Goats.

Turkeys.

Chickens.

I think the correct term for this system is agroforestry.

Just ensure that the animals you select don't damage the trees.

I think cows & pigs are examples of animals which would damage the trees.

As with everything in Thailand, if you leave the animals unguarded don't expect them to still be there when you come back.

[Mosha]

Claus,

There are a number of animals that are farmed inside rubber trees plantations.

Sheep.

Goats.

Turkeys.

Chickens.

I think the correct term for this system is agroforestry.

Just ensure that the animals you select don't damage the trees.

I think cows & pigs are examples of animals which would damage the trees.

As with everything in Thailand, if you leave the animals unguarded don't expect them to still be there when you come back.

I'd be wary pg goats if the trees are young. A boss of mine had a green car. He went to see his old man, and parked the car right against a [lank fence. A 6" gap at the goats head height. He came out after 1 hour . When he got home he saw the goats had licked the paint away right down to the metal.

[ClausGS]

ClausGS

As said, there was a threat on this maybe 2 years ago, For memory there was some big producer from Lao and a few others who could not find buyers.

Get back with your results on price and demand, never know I may plant some if there is a market. Jim

Hi Jim

I asked some shops today, and most of them only have agar wood from India, Vietnam, and laos. I asked for wood chips (about 3 to 10 CM long) from India was 45000 TBH / KG, so i guess they might buy it at 20000 TBH / KG.

They say the Thai agarwood have a different smell and need to be 12 to 15 years old before doing the inducement. They say if the wood is very dark color you can sell it as wood chips, if lighter color you can extract the oil from it. This is all the information i got today, so I am not sure what we will do next.

Claus

[thaiguzzi]

Cobbler,

2-3 Thai wives? Jeesus one is more than enough. 3 would kill me. On my land of 64 rai i have been the only one to plough,cut the grass between the 7m rows with our old Ford tractor in 8 years. I did all the pruning. Thai guys would strim between the 3m. The missus cut the grass on 10 rai where she cuts her trees, when i was out of action for 3 months with my septic foot this year. Bless her.

Claus,

chickens are really very good on rubber plantations, everything's right what Jim said re dogs etc.

Here's some more numbers;

Last year, first year of cutting, 28 rai of 7 year old RIMM 600 trees, 1750 trees out of 2220 trees cut, season 12th of may 2011 to 24th of jan 2012.

price fluctation from 81.90 baht per kilo to 44.10 baht per kilo, wet cup/kee yang all at auction, Udon province. Heavy rainfall season.

Total kgs 6309

total money in 407,533 baht.

Less cutters amount (40%) and money i spent on diesel, petrol and fertiliser looking after 64 rai in total, i had 131,723 baht in my pocket.

Does'nt sound great, but do'nt forget,

* 1st season cutting

* unusual heavyrainfall

*only 75% of the trees cut on that land parcel

* outgoings inc looking after another 36 rai

* this year we are already on 7,772 kgs, cutting 2350 trees (1850 plus 500 on 2 land parcels), with possibly another 6-7 weeks cutting left hopefully.

Mike.

[David006]

HI all

Thanks for all your comments, very use full for me.

I know that you can not estimate ROI on rubber plantation to a very precise level, but i can at least get some ides where it could be at.

Just a crazy idea, maybe some of you have some comments on this.?

Would it be possible to have chickens running between the rubber trees???

I was thinking to have a smaller fence made in a smaller area of the rubber plantation. Could the chickens turn the weed into fertilizer.?, in this way no need to cut or deal with the weed problem, and at the same time the chicken shit will fertilize the soil what is good for the rubber trees. you could even sell or eat the chickens.

or will the chickens destroy the trees? if yes i could fence each tree.?

or maybe the locals will "borrow" some of my chickens from time to time.?

Claus

Have chickens on every plantation, don't do much in the way of weed control. They fend for themselves, wild and if you want chicken tonight shoot one. Sure the passing tribes of wandering Thais take more than us. Jim

hear him..hear him .lol ....looks like some superman GM is deleting my posts? Bugger it and him too.!!! Probably a Canadian?

[ClausGS]

Cobbler,

2-3 Thai wives? Jeesus one is more than enough. 3 would kill me. On my land of 64 rai i have been the only one to plough,cut the grass between the 7m rows with our old Ford tractor in 8 years. I did all the pruning. Thai guys would strim between the 3m. The missus cut the grass on 10 rai where she cuts her trees, when i was out of action for 3 months with my septic foot this year. Bless her.

Claus,

chickens are really very good on rubber plantations, everything's right what Jim said re dogs etc.

Here's some more numbers;

Last year, first year of cutting, 28 rai of 7 year old RIMM 600 trees, 1750 trees out of 2220 trees cut, season 12th of may 2011 to 24th of jan 2012.

price fluctation from 81.90 baht per kilo to 44.10 baht per kilo, wet cup/kee yang all at auction, Udon province. Heavy rainfall season.

Total kgs 6309

total money in 407,533 baht.

Less cutters amount (40%) and money i spent on diesel, petrol and fertiliser looking after 64 rai in total, i had 131,723 baht in my pocket.

Does'nt sound great, but do'nt forget,

* 1st season cutting

* unusual heavyrainfall

*only 75% of the trees cut on that land parcel

* outgoings inc looking after another 36 rai

* this year we are already on 7,772 kgs, cutting 2350 trees (1850 plus 500 on 2 land parcels), with possibly another 6-7 weeks cutting left hopefully.

Mike.

HI

Thanks for the numbers, it support my estimations / calculations.

I estimate that you can have a average profit of about 400000 TBH / 50 rai / year (After all yearly cost is paid) . This could then go up or down 30 to 40% depending on all the factors that we can not control.

The bonus.:

After 25 to 30 years you can sell the rubber wood at about 3 to 4 million TBH for 50 rai of land.

After 25 to 30 years you have 50 rai of land that for sure have increased in value.

Boy's, if my estimation is way of pleas feel free to comment on this.

Claus

[jamescollister]

Cobbler,

2-3 Thai wives? Jeesus one is more than enough. 3 would kill me. On my land of 64 rai i have been the only one to plough,cut the grass between the 7m rows with our old Ford tractor in 8 years. I did all the pruning. Thai guys would strim between the 3m. The missus cut the grass on 10 rai where she cuts her trees, when i was out of action for 3 months with my septic foot this year. Bless her.

Claus,

chickens are really very good on rubber plantations, everything's right what Jim said re dogs etc.

Here's some more numbers;

Last year, first year of cutting, 28 rai of 7 year old RIMM 600 trees, 1750 trees out of 2220 trees cut, season 12th of may 2011 to 24th of jan 2012.

price fluctation from 81.90 baht per kilo to 44.10 baht per kilo, wet cup/kee yang all at auction, Udon province. Heavy rainfall season.

Total kgs 6309

total money in 407,533 baht.

Less cutters amount (40%) and money i spent on diesel, petrol and fertiliser looking after 64 rai in total, i had 131,723 baht in my pocket.

Does'nt sound great, but do'nt forget,

* 1st season cutting

* unusual heavyrainfall

*only 75% of the trees cut on that land parcel

* outgoings inc looking after another 36 rai

* this year we are already on 7,772 kgs, cutting 2350 trees (1850 plus 500 on 2 land parcels), with possibly another 6-7 weeks cutting left hopefully.

Mike.

HI

Thanks for the numbers, it support my estimations / calculations.

I estimate that you can have a average profit of about 400000 TBH / 50 rai / year (After all yearly cost is paid) . This could then go up or down 30 to 40% depending on all the factors that we can not control.

The bonus.:

After 25 to 30 years you can sell the rubber wood at about 3 to 4 million TBH for 50 rai of land.

After 25 to 30 years you have 50 rai of land that for sure have increased in value.

Boy's, if my estimation is way of pleas feel free to comment on this.

Clausg

Again sorry to say your numbers on rubber lumber prices may be a bit out, depending on clone type. Some of the Malaysian clones are lumber producers and will give you a bigger return than you think, but the Thai standard trees, 20,000 to 30,000 Baht per rai. Have to say I was counting the millions at first, but was looking at Malaysian trees not Thai.

On a bright note, low prices, not enough workers to make sheet, we produced well over 4,000 kilos for November. Can't be sure on the exact number, as have been selling a lot of cup, can't tell the exact water content. Using the 2 sheet making plantations and the numbers from the cup plantations prior to worker shortage and lazy family tappers, think around 4,250 kilos for the month.

Being, I have got the rolling machines all working correctly, can find the workers, got the hot air dry shed built for the wet times and prices pick up, we should be holidaying in Europe next year. Kids have never seen snow Jim

Edited December 9, 2012 by jamescollister

[Mosha]

As I said b4 I'm a cup 1/2 empty type.

[rubberpatch]

HI all

Thanks for all the useful info you fill into this forum.

1 question I have, I think Jim talked about it earlier. It is estimated to harvest about 3 to 5 KG of rubber per tree per year (all depending on age, soil, fertilizer ect. ect.). The question i have is when we say 3 to 5 KG as a estimate is that dry rubber content or is this 3 to 5 KG of wet rubber. ??? (Jim??).

Another question for all of you. If you got a offer to buy land with 5 to 6 year old Yang on it what would you be willing to pay per rai in your area? i know many factors would affect the price but in average.?

By the way i found below link to a web site where people sell secondhand trucks, tractors, farm equipment ect. (all in thai) but easy to get a overview of what stuff cost's in this country.

http://www.truck2hand.com

maybe useful for some.

Claus

Claus,

3 to 5 Kg / Tree / Year is DRC.

Personally I wouldn't pay any premium over the price of empty land, for land with 5 to 6 year old Rubber trees.

I am sure that the trees won't be the type I want & won't be planted & cared for the way I expect.

Bad decisions & poor treatment of trees in the first few years can never be recovered.

Clause,

Mark 1971 has only seen shit trees taken care of by people who only planted them with the plan of selling them with minimum expense ,so of course the trees will be shit.I've seen many good 5,6 year old trees sell here in this area for100K to 200K per rai depending on if the paper is torbor ha or full paper .If the trees are torbor ha in a mountain around this area you can get 100K per rai,for good trees.However if right time right place you can get it for lessEG if owner needs money.I know of 1 farm here for sale on the side of a mountain ,24 rai torbor ha producing 30 KG to 35KG of dry sheet per day for sale for 2.5 million baht,so for sure you'd get it for 2.4 million,These trees are 8years old perfect trees.So it's a great buy.They are tapped 10 months of the year,So it's an extra 2 months tapping period than a dry area.Has electric and dam fed by spring for water.This is a better buy than 5 or 6 year old trees because first 2 years at least will give less rubber.So this farm can give you a great return from day 1.Just an example of what is around in this area.

Have another 20 rai for sale in this area,torbor ha 10 year old trees, 38 to 40 kilo of dry sheet per day,flat land small slope up in the back quarter of land.Has water electric and million baht house on it.So this is a bargain priced at 5million baht .tapped 10 months per year.Has extra 3 raia cleared behind farm allready with trees on it.Many people in this area mix bananas with the rubber,between the rows for extra income..This farm has 500 approx ,banana trees on it .Has other fruit trees on it also.

Had 25 rai torbor ha, sold not long ago here 6million baht.Trees 15 years old no electric These prices are normal in this area

Hope this is of help for you.

Cobbler

P.S. all farms in this area are shared at a 60% for owner and 40 % for worker

Clause - for what it's worth we looked at a block of 28rai in Kho saming area last week, 8 to 9 year old trees producing 800kg in 5 day of cut 2/rest 1 production for wet cup that sold last week at 42 bt/kg (from one popular agent but a long que wait to obtain that price) Land titled on Red Chanute about to go to Black Chanute for asking price of 7 mil Bt - Sealed road to the door, electric, good workers hut but no Bahn, impecably clean property with well cared for trees by 4 cutters who wish to remain. (I wish I had the money)

Edited December 11, 2012 by rubberpatch

[ClausGS]

HI all

Thanks for all the useful info you fill into this forum.

1 question I have, I think Jim talked about it earlier. It is estimated to harvest about 3 to 5 KG of rubber per tree per year (all depending on age, soil, fertilizer ect. ect.). The question i have is when we say 3 to 5 KG as a estimate is that dry rubber content or is this 3 to 5 KG of wet rubber. ??? (Jim??).

Another question for all of you. If you got a offer to buy land with 5 to 6 year old Yang on it what would you be willing to pay per rai in your area? i know many factors would affect the price but in average.?

By the way i found below link to a web site where people sell secondhand trucks, tractors, farm equipment ect. (all in thai) but easy to get a overview of what stuff cost's in this country.

http://www.truck2hand.com

maybe useful for some.

Claus

Claus,

3 to 5 Kg / Tree / Year is DRC.

Personally I wouldn't pay any premium over the price of empty land, for land with 5 to 6 year old Rubber trees.

I am sure that the trees won't be the type I want & won't be planted & cared for the way I expect.

Bad decisions & poor treatment of trees in the first few years can never be recovered.

Clause,

Mark 1971 has only seen shit trees taken care of by people who only planted them with the plan of selling them with minimum expense ,so of course the trees will be shit.I've seen many good 5,6 year old trees sell here in this area for100K to 200K per rai depending on if the paper is torbor ha or full paper .If the trees are torbor ha in a mountain around this area you can get 100K per rai,for good trees.However if right time right place you can get it for lessEG if owner needs money.I know of 1 farm here for sale on the side of a mountain ,24 rai torbor ha producing 30 KG to 35KG of dry sheet per day for sale for 2.5 million baht,so for sure you'd get it for 2.4 million,These trees are 8years old perfect trees.So it's a great buy.They are tapped 10 months of the year,So it's an extra 2 months tapping period than a dry area.Has electric and dam fed by spring for water.This is a better buy than 5 or 6 year old trees because first 2 years at least will give less rubber.So this farm can give you a great return from day 1.Just an example of what is around in this area.

Have another 20 rai for sale in this area,torbor ha 10 year old trees, 38 to 40 kilo of dry sheet per day,flat land small slope up in the back quarter of land.Has water electric and million baht house on it.So this is a bargain priced at 5million baht .tapped 10 months per year.Has extra 3 raia cleared behind farm allready with trees on it.Many people in this area mix bananas with the rubber,between the rows for extra income..This farm has 500 approx ,banana trees on it .Has other fruit trees on it also.

Had 25 rai torbor ha, sold not long ago here 6million baht.Trees 15 years old no electric These prices are normal in this area

Hope this is of help for you.

Cobbler

P.S. all farms in this area are shared at a 60% for owner and 40 % for worker

Clause - for what it's worth we looked at a block of 28rai in Kho saming area last week, 8 to 9 year old trees producing 800kg in 5 day of cut 2/rest 1 production for wet cup that sold last week at 42 bt/kg (from one popular agent but a long que wait to obtain that price) Land titled on Red Chanute about to go to Black Chanute for asking price of 7 mil Bt - Sealed road to the door, electric, good workers hut but no Bahn, impecably clean property with well cared for trees by 4 cutters who wish to remain. (I wish I had the money)

Hi

You might be right,,, but you numbers end up to about 14 KG rubber / tree / year. That for me sounds like a lot,,, a lot more than what the normal numbers are (4 to 5 KG / tree / year).

Maybe you should check the plantation / output more detailed before you buy it...

Claus

[jamescollister]

The average out put per trees is just that an average. So 5 kilos average means some produce much less and others product much more. I have many 251 trees and out put on them can be as high as 15 kilos per year.

Any trees not taken care of from day one will give less, trees well cared for will give more. Jim

[hopdafru]

quick post, hope it's in the right thread re. rubber prices in the last 30 years for those interested:

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=rubber&months=360

SokDee...

[how241]

quick post, hope it's in the right thread re. rubber prices in the last 30 years for those interested:

http://www.indexmund...bber&months=360

SokDee...

Great info. Thanks

[cobbler]

To any of you with chickens in the yang.A simple method that works to keep dogs at bay.Nail some wood crossways onto a branch and lean it up against a tree and chickens can hop up it into the tree.Put a few of these around your farm and chickens will find them and cut your losses down..Bush chickens are better than ducks and geese because they don't need to be fed,cutting costs.I just love ducks and geese though.

[David006]

To any of you with chickens in the yang.A simple method that works to keep dogs at bay.Nail some wood crossways onto a branch and lean it up against a tree and chickens can hop up it into the tree.Put a few of these around your farm and chickens will find them and cut your losses down..Bush chickens are better than ducks and geese because they don't need to be fed,cutting costs.I just love ducks and geese though.

hm-mm a predilection for ducks and geese hey...

Since we are wandering off here........

Talking of geese..there are a few Canada geese that seem to live on a farm near us..wonder if they migrated...been there for years....think they are on overstay...

Since ducks and geese have the ability to fly you would think they would escape predators?..

Gotta admit never seen a duck or goose sitting in a tree though....

.SIL law has a big ( some Thai fruit) tree with highish canopy was very surprised to see chickens up there..

..I never even knew chickens could fly ........... fry?.

I love duck eggs even the pickled/salted ones.

[Mosha]

I'm not sure but I think they keep the geese as pets, I see plenty around but never on the table.

[cobbler]

I'm not sure but I think they keep the geese as pets, I see plenty around but never on the table.

Yep thats right.We have no problem selling our ducks for 300 baht each to mon and myanmar but they are never interested in geese

[jamescollister]

Just when you think you are getting it all under control, they always throw a spanner into the works. Got home today from the factory, all is OK. Get a call from some of the workers, the pump has stopped. No water no sheet making, pump man says maybe Monday or Tuesday to come and look.

Meaning 4 or 5 days before it is fixed. Lesson learned, need two pumps next year or a big water tank.

It is all a leaning game and I will never learn enough to win. Jim

[cobbler]

Just when you think you are getting it all under control, they always throw a spanner into the works. Got home today from the factory, all is OK. Get a call from some of the workers, the pump has stopped. No water no sheet making, pump man says maybe Monday or Tuesday to come and look.

Meaning 4 or 5 days before it is fixed. Lesson learned, need two pumps next year or a big water tank.

It is all a leaning game and I will never learn enough to win. Jim

Mate why don't you slip into town and buy a new pump and conect it same day?

[jamescollister]

Just when you think you are getting it all under control, they always throw a spanner into the works. Got home today from the factory, all is OK. Get a call from some of the workers, the pump has stopped. No water no sheet making, pump man says maybe Monday or Tuesday to come and look.

Meaning 4 or 5 days before it is fixed. Lesson learned, need two pumps next year or a big water tank.

It is all a leaning game and I will never learn enough to win. Jim

Mate why don't you slip into town and buy a new pump and conect it same day?

!5,000 Baht for one thing, punmps arn't cheap and it may not be the pump it's self, but the borehole is blocked or something. Jim

[cobbler]

Jim ,Just when I thought I had half a brain.Oh well there you go,

Sold today 80 baht per kilo.

Picked a few pumpkins and tankwa

Had a yummy dinner of fish wrapped in banana leaves with some yummy Sauce my wife,accountant and best friend made up.

All in all a good day

Cheers Cobbler

[jamescollister]

Jim ,Just when I thought I had half a brain.Oh well there you go,

Sold today 80 baht per kilo.

Picked a few pumpkins and tankwa

Had a yummy dinner of fish wrapped in banana leaves with some yummy Sauce my wife,accountant and best friend made up.

All in all a good day

Cheers Cobbler

Pump fixed this afternoon, have 200 plus coconut trees to water tomorrow, nearly $ 100 down the drain for a new motor and sevice, but sheet prices are up, so will sell a 1000 kilos on Wednesday. Should be enough to give the kids a good Christmas.

Just finishing off my number 8 beer, but when you have no work to do, drinking comes easy. Jim

[jamescollister]

Did 7 hours in the hot sun watering coconuts, the first few beers were magic, Now I sit here watching distant lightning and the dull roar of thunder. Been the driest year I have seen, hope the rains come big time, will get another month out of the rubber trees, if so.

Won't be living on sticky rice and there will be beer. Bring on the rain, cut the power, flood the roads. It's great being a farmer, things that most hate, bring joy to you. Jim

[Mosha]

Sold USS today at 80 baht. 2 Baht less for not quite dry. Will ask her what the Kee Yang got tomorrow.

[Gwa]

Hi all,

Just want to share my experience with the beginning of my little plantation.

About nine years ago I bought 25 rai of land in Isaan,somewhere in between Ubon and Phiboon.Builded a house on it and planted some fruit trees on the remaining land.

Beginning of 2012 decided to give rubbertrees a try,just to try and get a little extra income to cover some expenses...surely not as main income(not enough land/knowledge)

Preparation of the land: Removing the existing trees,plowing with a 3 disc plow and leveling the plowed land costed me 1000Baht per rai.

Drilling a 6 inch borehole 40 Meter depth costed 16000 Baht bought a 1 1/2 inch submersible pump for 15000 baht.

Digging the holes for the trees was done in the month of may by the villagers ,sized 60cm x 60cm x 60 cm costed me 6 Baht per hole.I choosen for 4.5 meter spacing in between.

After a couple of weeks filled up the holes and added to the dirt 50 grams of fertiliser,3 handfulls of poonkaew and a tablespoon of Furadan no tree was planted at this stage.

Went to buy 1150pcs of Primm 600 trees (1 and 2 shot sized) costed 40 Baht per tree.

Planting of the trees was done buy pushing a 2 1/2 inch pvc pipe in to the already filled up holes and in this way creating a cylindrical hole with an approx diameter similar to to the plastic bag in witch the trees are kept,hoping to keep the dirt around the roots intact when bags are removed and trees are putted in the holes thinking this was faster and easier planting.

2 months after planting given each tree 100 Gram of 20-8-20

5 months after planting given each tree 150 gram of 20 -8-20

4 years ago I bought a second hand 34HP tractor with and a new weedcutter Tractor had 600 Running hrs and costed 300 000 Baht the 1.2 meter weedcutter costed 20 000 Baht.This tools come in very very handy... last month a bought a little trailer for it 12000 Baht installed an old 1500 liter pvc tank on it togheter with 6 meter of stiff 1 1/2 inch plastic hose myself and one helper can water 1100 trees in about 10 hrs

The trees are now 6 months old and on average 1.5 meter high.Total cost till now would be something around 200 000 baht(without the purchase of the tractor).i'm planning to plant another 400 or so by the next rain season.

Sorry for the spelling errors, my native language is not English.But any way this how I did it, for sure not the best way but it seems to work for me til now...

Gwa

[Mosha]

Welcome to farming. This was posted rather early on and may help you.

"Fertiliser; twice a year, start and end of the rainy season; year 1 15-15-15, year 2 18-4-5, years 3-6 20-10-12, years 7 up and ready to/or are cutting 30-5-18. 6 years and up, a 50kg bag per rai - twice! It aint cheap!"

[Gwa]

Welcome to farming. This was posted rather early on and may help you.

"Fertiliser; twice a year, start and end of the rainy season; year 1 15-15-15, year 2 18-4-5, years 3-6 20-10-12, years 7 up and ready to/or are cutting 30-5-18. 6 years and up, a 50kg bag per rai - twice! It aint cheap!"

Mosha,

Thanks for the advice,is this regardless the soil quality/type? I got the 20-8-20 out of Thai book about yang,this was the advice for sandy soils.....Maybe I should also contact the agricul. Dep. and see what they say just to compare.

Gwa

[Mosha]

I believe so.. FWIW, I don't think Thais pay much attention, and just throw down what the local store has in.

[cobbler]

Money from gov(I.M.F.) to help coughbullshit rubber farmers has finnished so now we should get a price rise soon in the price of rubber soon.Factories were using the 100 baht per kilo promised by gov to rubber farmers as an excuse to keep prices low at time of buying coz they knew farmers had no choice .Also now it has come out on the Thai news that the Chinese have agreed to not less than 100 per kilo for the next 3 years.So thats good.very possible we will be back to the price rubber was before gov interfered with this promise of coughbullshit 100 baht per kilo .

Fingers crossed