British Ecstasy Dealer Sentenced To 7 Years Jail

[britmaveric]

The guy has clearly been very foolish, and to some extent i have a lack of sympathy as he must have known the severity of the punishment waiting for him, were he to be caught. But seven years is extremely harsh for what he has done. At the end of the day he has provided a substance of relatively low risk to the user, to consenting people who want to have a good time. Does he really deserve to lose seven years of his life?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually its 8.5 years already been in the nick for 1.5!!! To answer your question YES he deserves to lose 7 years perhaps more.

[Fast Eddie]

The guy has clearly been very foolish, and to some extent i have a lack of sympathy as he must have known the severity of the punishment waiting for him, were he to be caught. But seven years is extremely harsh for what he has done. At the end of the day he has provided a substance of relatively low risk to the user, to consenting people who want to have a good time. Does he really deserve to lose seven years of his life?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually its 8.5 years already been in the nick for 1.5!!! To answer your question YES he deserves to lose 7 years perhaps more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why?

[richard10365]

Am I right in thinking that Thailand is one of the opium producers of the world? Golden Triangle and all that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it the British who brought opium to this part of the world from India?

[mbkudu]

When I first read the sentence of seven years my first thought was: That's it? he's lucky. Many drug convictions are for life and the the convicted usually ends up serving 10-15 years. Is he not aware of the 'drug dealer killings' when the government went on that frenzy awhile back? Seven years is not a long time relatively speaking for Thailand and a drug bust. I guess they took into consideration that he confessed and it was not a huge haul in the hundreds of thousands of pills. He knew the risks and took them. Not an ounce of sympathy here.

[meemiathai]

They should outlaw small minds...

Forums are full of 'If you don't like it, leave'.  Maybe thats why the suicide rate is so  high. 

'This is Thailand, obey the law'. Drinking after 2am in a bar? Partaking in the delicasies (sp) on offer in the prolific prostitution industry? Mmmm... no , that's ok.

'Its the damned poverty packers...'

Hypocrisy and one-sided thought permeates the forums like rotten treacle. (Does treacle go rotten?)

Because what you do isn't being cracked down upon, there can be no discussion. How f*in small-minded. Most of these self-rightous idiots wouldn't have survived during Prohibition.

Right or wrong, if you cannot discuss it, rather say nothing, that way the smallness of the mind is not revealed...

Is it illegal to discuss drugs, prostitution and culture?

This is called double standard.

[britmaveric]

Drinking Times/Prostitution - if penalties were the same and enforced. I dare say no one in their right mind would be breaking those laws and if they did and were caught, so be it they get what the deserve.

[LivinLOS]

The guy has clearly been very foolish, and to some extent i have a lack of sympathy as he must have known the severity of the punishment waiting for him, were he to be caught. But seven years is extremely harsh for what he has done. At the end of the day he has provided a substance of relatively low risk to the user, to consenting people who want to have a good time. Does he really deserve to lose seven years of his life?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually its 8.5 years already been in the nick for 1.5!!! To answer your question YES he deserves to lose 7 years perhaps more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed why ??

This person sold something to a willing purchaser who in all likelyhood would have had 0 adverse effects any worse than a night on the beer..

People here are saying he should have a stronger sentance.. Why does this do anything to solve the situation.. Indonesia has death penalties but drugs are still available.. Obviously that tactic doesnt work..

Others are saying 'its gainst the law nuff said' OK but so is not carrying your passport everywhere at all times.. The punishment should fit the crime with some relationship to how much damage that crime does to the victim (prostitution, drugs.. Who actually is the vitim if the 'victim' does this by choice) or society.. With murderers having shorter sentances, rapists having shorter sentances and yet the baying pack says 'string him up'..

Xanex and valium are available in every pharmacy if you ask.. They are illegal.. They are probably more harmful (certainly more addictive) would you support an 8.5 year sentance if a pharmacist sold me 30 ?? If not why not ?? Its a drug.. Its a controlled drug ?? I shouldnt be able to buy it.. Yet that is tolerated why ?? Ectasy was US drug control approved as being safe for consumption, I know a phsychiatrist who had legally prescribed it in the US.. Ahh but you cant threaten the big achohol pushers out there.. They are top dog in the drug trade and pay off the politicos to make sure they stay that way..

Surely crime and punishment should have some relationship to each other ?? where in an enlightened society would 2 people willingly engaging in a act that causes no one else harm, serve multiples more time than a rapist or murderer ??

[Scott]

Penalties in Thailand are stiff, but the country is tackling a significant drug problem, affecting mostly young people.

Most countries have laws that seem in some way unreasonable to any outsider. A problem crops up and the law decides to deal with it harshly.

In Thailand that happens to be drugs. I've had a few friends -- or former friends-- who were involved in drugs here. I cut off all contact with them. I am not anti-drugs, but I sure didn't want them showing up at my house, or being with them when the police caught them. I just said that when they cleaned up their act, get in touch with me.

[OlRedEyes]

Surely crime and punishment should have some relationship to each other ?? where in an enlightened society would 2 people willingly engaging in a act that causes no one else harm, serve multiples more time than a rapist or murderer ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Tis not an elightened society, neither does it attract enlightened elements to it. Not many anyways.

But we are not supposed to say that

[roscoe]

The time already served since his arrest more than 17 months ago will not be deducted from his sentence.

Whaat?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

No sympathy at all.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Drugs are one of the worst poisons a society can be unfortunate enough to witness. Drug dealers don't just ruin lives and kill people; they murder the very society in which they live. KILL THEM ALL.

This coming from someone who, in his youth, lived in a filthy drug infested Ghetto. A burnt out war zone that only 20years prior, before the drug scum infested it, was an affluent urban community full of life and teeming with mom & pop corner stores and shops.

I'm glad to see Thailand stepping up to the plate and coming down hard on this euro trash scumbag coming to Thailand to peddle that crap. Should put a slug in em.

[OlRedEyes]

Duplicate

Edited October 6, 2005 by OlRedEyes

[OlRedEyes]

Drugs are one of the worst poisons a society can be unfortunate enough to witness. Drug dealers don't just ruin lives and kill people; they murder the very society in which they live. KILL THEM ALL.

This coming from someone who, in his youth, lived in a filthy drug infested Ghetto. A burnt out war zone that only 20years prior, before the drug scum infested it, was an affluent urban community full of life and teeming with mom & pop corner stores and shops.

I'm glad to see Thailand stepping up to the plate and coming down hard on this euro trash scumbag coming to Thailand to peddle that crap. Should put a slug in em.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Drug dealers surely have a negative effect on society. So do many other things, including alchohol and war-mongering leaders. However, blaming the societies' demise on it is just an excuse to hide the weakness of that society. If it wasn't drugs, it would be something else. There's always an excuse. Blame it on something or somebody else.

This will never be a perfect world. If you cannot survive in a non-perfect world you are doomed.

Edited October 6, 2005 by OlRedEyes

[kogrutter]

Same drug those creeps in Aruba gave the Holloway kid.  Along with booze, it apparently mows down all defenses.  Seven years in the slammer isn't enough. But it should make others think twice.  Should move him to BKK though.  I understand the accomodations are a bit more austere

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do we know ? I thought it was a roofie or rohipnol .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Latest from a PI that interviewed the Kalpoe kid that drugged her referred to ecstasy. He (Kalpoe) allowed as it was easy for all three of the buggers to have intercourse with her-she was semi-conscious. Romantic.

And as to the earlier rabid responder, yes, jail is too good for trafficers in drugs that harm our young folk. This idiot was caught with 30 pills. How many had he distributed already? How'd you like to have your daughter raped by some punk with the help of "ecstasy"?

[Darkling]

The guy should be happy they didn't tack on a life sentence penalty for not having a Work Permit  and proper visa while doing business in Thailand!!!!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Darkling]

Am I right in thinking that Thailand is one of the opium producers of the world? Golden Triangle and all that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it the British who brought opium to this part of the world from India?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looks like they are still at it.

[LivinLOS]

Latest from a PI that interviewed the Kalpoe kid that drugged her referred to ecstasy.  He (Kalpoe) allowed as it was easy for all three of the buggers to have intercourse with her-she was semi-conscious.  Romantic. 

And as to the earlier rabid responder, yes, jail is too good for trafficers in drugs that harm our young folk.  This idiot was caught with 30 pills.  How many had he distributed already?  How'd you like to have your daughter raped by some punk with the help of "ecstasy"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And would you now be advocating the banning of alchohol if they got her drunk the ######ed her ??

Liquid panty remover was actually an advertising slogan for a drink product.. Alchohol has been used like this forever..

Of course then people say its the act not the drug.. The rapists fault not alchohols fault.. Total moral double standard.. Ecstacy is no more likely to uninhibit someone than alchohol, in fact probably less so...

[slim]

Actually its 8.5 years already been in the nick for 1.5!!!  To answer your question YES he deserves to lose 7 years perhaps more.

I'm glad to see Thailand stepping up to the plate and coming down hard on this euro trash scumbag coming to Thailand to peddle that crap. Should put a slug in em.

You two must be Muslim fundamentalists. This is the &lt;deleted&gt; that they'd advocate along with limb amputations for stealing and public executions for non-conformist activities like refusing to grow a beard.

You should have been born in the Middle Ages because thats where your ideologies lie.

Edited October 7, 2005 by slim

[OlRedEyes]

  How'd you like to have your daughter raped by some punk with the help of "ecstasy"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How'd you like your daughter being raped with the help of alchohol?

Kill all bar owners, traders and manufacturers of this evil substance?

Would the use of a gun be better? A baseball bat? Rope?

Lets ban it all.

Then go hide in our 'safe' little hole away from the big bad world... Maybe protect ourselves with some missiles and modern 'hardware'.

Kill everyone else. Then we are safe....

Paranoia is cool

Inanimate objects are not bad, ever. It is how they are used that is important.

Now lets all have our lunch and milk, and a short nap. Then we can go play.

[Neeranam]

As they say, Thai prisons are built to jail the poor and the stupid. Apparently this fellow was both.

smile.gif

You, and they (who are they?) obviously don't know about Thai jails.

Lots of opinions from those who don't know really how bad it is in jail.

I've been in a Thai jail and believe me when I say that I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

7 years for a few ecstasy pills is crazy. This guys life could well be over. Probably won't ever recover.

Thai prisons are full of sick people. I'd say that 50% are alcoholics or drug addicts, who IMO are mentally ill. A few other mentally ill people too.

Even the really evil ones, well maybe they are sick too.

What would you say if your brother or sister became mentally ill nad ended up in a Thai jail?

Lock them up and throw away the key?

Most of the guys in the 'hilton' for drug offenses are innocent too BTW.

[britmaveric]

MDMA ("ectasy") is a high potency amphetamine compound that can cause amongst other types of permanent brain damage: brain hemorrhages, stroke, psychosis, hallucinations, a paranoid state, and irreversible cognitive impairment, in addition to its extreme addiction potential. In short, over time (and sometimes it's a short amount of time), it can turn your brain into toast. It can also result in irreversible damage to the heart and cardiovascular system. - http://www.medhelp.org

Not as benign as you lot make it out to be!!!

[sriracha john]

Is he not aware of the 'drug dealer killings' when the government went on that frenzy awhile back?

The frenzy continues to this day:

Police yesterday closed an investigation into the suspicious group hanging of three drug suspects in custody at Muang Lamphun police station.

The officer also referred to a crime scene investigation report as saying that all three men – Palakawa Phattakam, 24, Boonchu Sujipat, 22, and Pajansuk Ornjong, 19 – could have hung themselves on their own – by climbing up and tying their shoestrings to the overhead bars of their detention cell.

-------------------

Yep... three simultaneous suicides, all by hanging, in their shared cell. Yep, nothing out of the ordinary or suspicious about that.

[LivinLOS]

Whoever wrote that has very little idea factual idea.. extreme addiction potential ?? complete scaremongering &lt;deleted&gt;..

try this edit

Alchohol is a high potency compound that can cause amongst other types of permanent brain damage: brain hemorrhages, stroke, psychosis, hallucinations, a paranoid state, and irreversible cognitive impairment, in addition to its extreme addiction potential. In short, over time (and sometimes it's a short amount of time), it can turn your brain into toast. It can also result in irreversible damage to the heart and cardiovascular system. - http://www.medhelp.org

I am happy to go on record as saying that in the years before coming to Thailand I have taken 1000's (literally) of ecstacy pills.. During the 89 and early 90's house music and free party boom n the UK I was taking perhaps 10 a week every week..

Over those years I have travelled, educated myself, formed multiple companys, turned those companies into multi million dollar corporations operating pan European, was a productive member of society employing over 400 people and the director of the whole shebang in my early and mid 20's (hence my retirement out here at 28).. I was also a user of many other compounds more or less dangerous and a weed smoker.. That doesnt fit the stereotype of drug use does it though.. where my commercial ??

Since living Thailand I am not a user of any of them.. I have other distractions and ways to entertain my mind outside of psychedics (though I would be lieing if I said I dont miss the odd indulgence).. Addiction.. You must be joking.. ecstacy stops working after a few years of taking it (or at least stops working in the initial eurphoric way of the early stages).. physiclly its non addictive, of course mentally it can be but so can eating chocolate, having sex, going to the gym..

[britmaveric]

NIDA InfoFacts: MDMA (Ecstasy)

Cognitive Effects

Chronic users of MDMA perform more poorly than nonusers on certain types of cognitive or memory tasks. Some of these effects may be due to the use of other drugs in combination with MDMA, among other factors.

Physical Effects

In high doses, MDMA can interfere with the body's ability to regulate temperature. This can lead to a sharp increase in body temperature (hyperthermia), resulting in liver, kidney, and cardiovascular system failure.

Because MDMA can interfere with its own metabolism (breakdown within the body), potentially harmful levels can be reached by repeated drug use within short intervals.

Users of MDMA face many of the same risks as users of other stimulants such as cocaine and amphetamines. These include increases in heart rate and blood pressure, a special risk for people with circulatory problems or heart disease, and other symptoms such as muscle tension, involuntary teeth clenching, nausea, blurred vision, faintness, and chills or sweating.

Psychological Effects

These can include confusion, depression, sleep problems, drug craving, and severe anxiety. These problems can occur during and sometimes days or weeks after taking MDMA.

Neurotoxicity

Research in animals links MDMA exposure to long-term damage to neurons that are involved in mood, thinking, and judgment. A study in nonhuman primates showed that exposure to MDMA for only 4 days caused damage to serotonin nerve terminals that was evident 6 to 7 years later. While similar neurotoxicity has not been definitively shown in humans, the wealth of animal research indicating MDMA's damaging properties suggests that MDMA is not a safe drug for human consumption.

Hidden Risk: Drug Purity

Other drugs chemically similar to MDMA, such as MDA (methylenedioxyamphetamine, the parent drug of MDMA) and PMA (paramethoxyamphetamine, associated with fatalities in the U.S. and Australia) are sometimes sold as ecstasy. These drugs can be neurotoxic or create additional health risks to the user. Also, ecstasy tablets may contain other substances in addition to MDMA, such as ephedrine (a stimulant); dextromethorphan (DXM, a cough suppressant that has PCP-like effects at high doses); ketamine (an anesthetic used mostly by veterinarians that also has PCP-like effects); caffeine; cocaine; and methamphetamine. While the combination of MDMA with one or more of these drugs may be inherently dangerous, users might also combine them with substances such as marijuana and alcohol, putting themselves at further physical risk.

http://www.nida.nih.gov

Whatever you say mate research/facts speak for themselves!!!!

[LivinLOS]

Research paid for by whom ?? Research with what agenda ??

The simple fact that 100,000's of kids are getting thier rocks off every weekend simply doesnt back up those reports.. The simple change of MDMA (a US gov approved 'safe for prescription' drug) to alchohol in your fearful warning above shows you how ambigious all these things are..

Of course it is not 100% risk or damage free.. However niether is socially accpeted drugs like drink and cigs.. Its the small close minded, accept your gov propoganda sentiment, that allowed the paper industry to make hemp illegal and in turn create such stupidity as 'reefer madness' and that proganda is still happening today and people are still swallowing the lies.

The bigest 'risk' (ohh dear my heart rate is high.. Or was I just at the gym.. Ohh no I am feeling 'jittery' better not have another coffee) outlined above is the hidden risk of purity.. That whole problem is created by the illegal distribution and manufacture of street drugs and the big time criminals that profit from this industry.. Its the biggest problem for the harder drugs suck as smack also, nearly all smack deaths are becuase of varying purity levels and adulterated drugs. Look at someone like william burroughs, a creative unusual amazing writer, one of Americas experimental literary greats, a life long intravenious user of sedatives..

I am in no way encouraging a lifetime of addiction to intravenous use.. Merely trying to point out that he lived a full and long and creative life.. Wheres his commercial ??

Its the illegallization of drugs that makes drug users criminals.. Are drinkers all criminals?? of course not.. Making normal people that want to smoke pot or take a compound go and meet criminals to purchase it creates many of the problems.

You only need to look at the model of Holland to show that drug tolerance has a beneficial effect to the society as a whole and saves money in the long term.

Edited October 7, 2005 by LivinLOS

[britmaveric]

Hunter S. Thompson - another great writer and drug user (hallucingens)

Suicide Note:

"No More Games. No More Bombs. No More Walking. No More Fun. No More Swimming. 67. That is 17 years past 50. 17 more than I needed or wanted. Boring. I am always bitchy. No Fun -- for anybody. 67. You are getting Greedy. Act your old age. Relax -- This won't hurt."

LivingLOS - perhaps you were lucky one and I applaud you, but I've read countless deaths from teenagers popping X. Simply put its a dangerous narcotic and you keep justifying its use by comparing alcohol + fags to it. (apples/oranges)

[Neeranam]

I value experience more than facts.

I have taken nearly every illegal and legal drug commonly known.

What is the worst in my experience - alcohol(legal), Diazepam(valium - legal), and amphetamine(illegal).

Ecstasy was nothing much for me - no side effects.

Heroin - no problem.

Alcohol - wow problems galore, I could write a book.

Comparing ecstacy to alcohol - no match when it comes down to which one is safer.

[britmaveric]

Ecstasy=amphetamine

Alcohol/Fags - long term prob worse off - especially high consumption. Alcohol moderate for most people - actually health beneficial.

Anyways we'll have to disagree on this - we are like dogs chasing our own tails.

[LivinLOS]

but I've read countless deaths from teenagers popping X. Simply put its a dangerous narcotic and you keep justifying its use by comparing alcohol + fags to it. (apples/oranges)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It isnt apples to oranges.. Countless ?? compared to usage stats they are tiny.. of course 1 exacty death is huge news, 100's of alchohol deaths every week never gets press..

I suggest if you want to have an informed argument you read on the subject..

From Amazon 'Ecstacy a complete guide'

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846

An articulte review..

One should start by putting things in perspective. The following background is necessary not only for all studies of psychoactive drugs, but for all studies of human behavior.

There were about 400,000 USA deaths due to tobacco, 100,000 each to alcohol and prescription drugs and about 7600 to aspirin and other OTC painkillers. Worldwide we can expect that the figures will be about 10 million for tobacco, 2.5 million each for others and about 200,000 for aspirin and OTC painkillers. There may be 1 million people in the world with fetal alcohol syndrome(severe brain damage due to maternal drinking) and it is the leading cause of mental retardation in most countries.  There are also at least 15 million people who have fetal alcohol effect(lesser degrees of brain damage) with about 200,000 born every year. I suspect this is a gross underestimate.

None of the psychedelics nor cannabis are known to produce fetal injury when taken in normal amounts.  All things considered, if you calculated the lifetime risks of death or injury from taking ecstasy, it is probably comparable to that of driving ten km and significantly less than that of putting on a pair of skis.

In addition, the young people who comprise the vast majority of the users are heavy risk takers, a very percentage of whom have personality disorders.  There are about 60 million schizophrenics and the same number of manic depressives in the world.  When you add the depressives, schizotypal disorders, anorexics, alcoholics etc it is clear that perhaps a billion people have major mental problems, nearly half of all those are in the prime drug taking ages. In addition nearly all of us have periodic mood swings, medical problems and personal crises.

Based on various data in this book and elsewhere,  it appears that about 20 million people will take something like 200 million pills of ecstasy each  year.  In 1998 there were about 9 deaths POSSIBLY connected with ecstasy in the USA. These seem to actually be due to drinking too much or too little water and likely to taking large amounts of other drugs or alcohol.    Ecstasy deaths(like those for marijuana and other psychedelics) are extremely rare and seldom if ever due to the direct toxicity--the psychedelics having some the widest margins between the effective and the toxic doses of any drugs in medicine.

The fact is there was enough data to prove the psychedelics were safe and therapeutically effective 25 years ago.  If they were available OTC or perhaps even on prescription with the same general indications as say, antibiotics, the black market and adulterated drugs would quickly fade away.

It is not clear that anyone has ever had serious permanent mental problems due to taking ecstasy(though they often have serious permanent benefits) and its potential as a therapeutic agent are enormous. It has a long and remarkable history as a highly effective and safe therapeutic adjunct.  Nevertheless, as with many other psychedelic drugs, the federal government has chosen to ignore medical advice and legal opinion and classify it with heroin as a Schedule 1 drug with no recognized medical value and the governments of many other countries have followed along like trained dogs.

This book aims to provide accurate information on all aspects of MDMA(ecstasy) and it accomplishes this quite well.

The authors mostly try very hard to be fair and balanced in their approaches and are mostly experts in the field.  They caution about the difficulty of applying the data on animals to humans but they often do not go far enough in emphasizing the probable irrelevance of the animal data to humans.  E.G., in the chapter on risks, not only do most of the animals get large amounts intravenously, but there are no good control data.  We need to see what happens with the same animals with the same routes and relative doses with a variety of commonly used medicines(eg, antidepressants, mood elevators, asthmatics, appetite depressants, cold medicines, OTC pain pills etc etc. Will they, as one suspects, show similar changes in their brain chemistry, memory, blood flow etc?  Nobody knows as the government sponsored studies almost never test them.  We can only guess from scattered data in other studies which often show the same kinds of changes.  Consequently, if we applied the same criteria used for Prozac, Elavil, aspirin etc  we would either have to outlaw nearly all the drugs in current medical use or legalize all the psychedelics. However the government has no interest in being rational, fair or even sane and certainly none in allowing us the freedoms supposedly guaranteed by the Consititution, and the Bill of Rights.

Wantly badly to err on the side of caution, several of the authors repeatedly warn(eg, p111) of the possibility of subtle long term damage yet they seem unconcerned by some half century of massive long term use of antidepressants, amphetamines, etc to say nothing of alcohol, caffeine and nicotine.  And only one bothers to mention(p 139) that a half century of studies on chronic users(often intravenous and multidrug abusers) of the closely related amphetamine and methamphetamine have failed to show evidence of Parkinsonism. And let us keep in mind that about 99% of all the MDMA fans use it only a few times in their lives in low oral doses.  The same is true of most other psychedelics and so it seems likely that the only long term behavioural effects in the vast majority of users will be some increase in insight, less rigid personalities, broader interests in art, music, religion and a generally happier life.

The young people who comprise the vast majority of the users are heavy risk takers, a very high percentage of whom have personality disorders.  There are about 60 million schizophrenics and the same number of manic depressives in the world.  When you add the depressives, schizotypal disorders, anorexics, alcholics etc it is clear that perhaps a billion people have major mental problems - nearly half of all those are in the prime drug taking ages. In addition nearly all of us have periodic mood swings, medical problems and personal crises.  In addition as some of the authors note (and as Holland often interjects in her editoral notes) the ecstasy users are usually taking other drugs before, during and after their ecstasy(and marijuana and other psychedelic experiences).    These include, almost universally, alcohol, tobacco and caffeine(which are almost always ignored) as well as cocaine, amphetamine and methamphetamine, ketamine, dextromethorphan, asthmatics, and a wide variety or uppers, downers and prescription mood altering agents including birth control pills and Viagra, to say nothing of the steroids now approaching universal use in professional athletes in all sports(no the new ones cannot generally be detected).  Yet as Holland and others note, these other drugs are usually not mentioned and a really good drug screen on the users appearing in clinics or used in studies is seldom done.  The point of all this is that the claim that ecstasy is dangerous is not correct(and other psychedelics are mostly the same).  It's probable that skiing kills and injures more people in one season(most in car accidents!) or tobacco or alcohol in one day, than all psychedelics combined have done since the beginning of recorded history.  Thus the demonizing of them does not correspond with reality.  In fact since more than 99% of all media on MDMA is negative it would be reasonable and desireable to remove all the comments on possible negative effects from this book and publish it as MDMA: miracle medicine for the 21st century!

Billions of dollars have been spent on studies ánd programs aimed at showing that psychedelics are bad and almost nothing on their many positive effects. In fact most of the world has(naturally) followed the poorly educated, deeply repressed, conservative Christians who control the US Govt. in outlawing, for over 30 years, any medical use and any research that might show benefits!  The vast amount of practical experience with their benefits cannot even be published and the tens(maybe hundreds) of millions who have had major positive experiences cannot talk about them.  Its clear as day that the only serious problem with ecstasy is that it is new and it triggers the control and maybe the contamination templates in the monkey mind.

The evidence presented here shows that MDMA is very safe, rarely illusionogenic(though most authors follow the common practice of calling visual effects hallucinations, which they defintely are not).  Hallucinations-eg, seeing and hearing persons who are not there- are characteristic of schizophrenia, toxic psychoses, belladonoids(eg datura), and dissociative anesthethics(PCP, ketamine).  They are so rare with psychedelics that one suspects that nearly all such cases are due to preexisting psychosis.  MDMA probably belongs(with a variety of other drugs invented by Shulgin) in a new class called entactogens.  These are unique in that in addition to catalyzing positive emotions and bonding, they are rapidly acting, nonsedating anxiolytics(decrease anxiety), anaesthetics(pain killers) and antidepressants(which take days or weeks to act in comparison with minutes for MDMA!) with remarkably few and mild side effects(in dramatic contrast with nearly all medical drugs which have severe side effects that are often fatal).

There is along chapter devoted to the toxicity data on rats and monkeys usually dosed intravenously and chronically with huge amounts and to reports on chronic, high dose often IV multiple drug abusers, probably with a high incidence of preexisting mental adn physical problems.  Only Holland's desire for completeness justifies the inclusion of such data in this book.  It has about as much relevance to the occasional oral use by the vast majority of MDMA users as the study of chronic alcoholics has to the description of a dinner party where 2 people consume a bottle of wine.

Jansen(p 87,89) is afraid of this self medication at home and expecially at raves(massive all night music events)without a therapist but probably over 100 million people in the last 40 years have taken some 2 billion trips with LSD, MDMA, MDA, mescaline, peyote, amanita, psilocybin mushrooms, ketamine and many other psychedelics with amazingly little evidence of negative effects. And of course, syrian rue, amanita muscaria, peyote and other cacti, pitruri, datura, ayahuasca and countless other plants have been consumed in hundreds of societies for thousands and likely for tens of thousands of years, giving rise to much of our art, music and religion, with hardly a trace of tradition regarding bad effects, which people were usually quick to notice and avoid.  And, as Jansen(the author of an excellent recent book on ketamine)notes, nobody writes up, or sends to the media, reports of positive effects.

One way to look at the really big picture is to call on our modern knowledge of cognitive and evolutionary psychology which tells us that the foundations of human behavior are the result of the mechanical, unconscious functioning of the inference engines or templates that were evolved hundreds of thousands of years ago(or millions or tens or hundreds of millions depending on one's point of view) to enable small bands of primates to survive long enough to reproduce.  These templates take in all the info from the eyes, ears, etc. and memory and produce feelings or intuitions about how one should behave to optimize survival.  However templates for control, predator avoidance, contamination, etc which were so rational in a small group on the African savanna(or in the trees a few million years earlier) are totally irrational and and even suicidal now.  Relentlessly, and in agonizing slow motion, 6 billion people are following the dictates of their templates while the biosphere and what passes for civilization collapses around them. The devious, power mad, repressed and unconscious persons who gravitate to positions of power in government, military, religion, industry and academia are orchestrating the end of the world while their like-minded constituents cheer wildly.  It is these people and not the psychedelic users who are the criminals.

Ecstasy and other psychedelics, preferably combined with various kinds of meditation and other physical and mental therapies have a major potential to help people to break free from the automatisms that have guided behavior for millions of years. Billions of people need this medicine to avoid a lifetime of suffering and unhappiness and often, suicide.  Let us hope that it holds the answer as there does not seem to be any other and let us hurry--time is running out.

Another scientific study is the reprint of the '89 Elgin book 'The MDMA story' the reprint specifically deals with the studies done in the mid 90's showing serotinin damage etc that has since been shown to be dubious data at best (see New York times article 03/10/04) or outright spin and gov approved propoganda at worst

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846

of course you will always have a tiny % of people who have a problem.. you can get a tiny % of people that have a problem with excersize or even a huge % of people who have a problem with junk food.. should we make them illegal ??

IMHO sentencing a person to 7 years in any jail for the supply and or use of soemthing all parties in the trasnaction were willing to do is a far bigger crime than the one he was convicted of.

[LivinLOS]

Ecstasy=amphetamine

MDMA = methylenedioxy-meth[/]amphetamine

Anyways we'll have to disagree on this - we are like dogs chasing our own tails.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A common decision when people find thier arguments do not atcually stand careful scrutiny or discussion.

Edited October 7, 2005 by LivinLOS