Don'T Speak Pidgin Thai To My Kids

[jdinasia]

No Problem with my reading but Ill post the whole text its easier . "deemed by some" and "Other English speaking

parts of the world" Seems it offends Yanks OOOOPS im being non pc again I meant Americans og h bugger is that correct or is it offensive to native Indians oh bugger done it again sheeesh cant say anything these days

I cut out your cope of that stub --- and am reposting it modified with underlining and bold, to show where you seem to be misreading it. It isn't just "Yanks" that find it offensive (it is almost NEVER heard in the USA except in some immigrant families) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-caste

Half-caste (or often mis-spelt half-cast) is a term used to describe people of mixed race or ethnicity.^[1] Caste comes from the Latin castus, meaning pure, and the dervative Portuguese and Spanish casta, meaning race. The term originates from the Indian caste system, where a person of 'lesser' or half-caste would be deemed to be of a 'lower class'. The origins of the term are derogatory.^{[citation needed]}In Australia the term is thoroughly offensive, and was used in the past to describe Indigenous people of mixed racial parentage. The term "Aboriginal" or "Indigenous" in the Australian context no longer requires that a person described by such a term has a minimum proportion of Indigenous heritage.^{[citation needed]}Terms such as "half-caste" or "part-Aboriginal" are no longer used.

Half caste is deemed by some as an offensive term but often freely used by others in the United Kingdom and other English-speaking parts of the world. An example is a child of black African and white European parentage. A preferred term might be 'Mixed Race'. The term mulatto (from Spanish "Mulato") has also been used for this particular mixture. Both the terms Half-Caste and Mulato are considered impolite and potentially offensive in the U.S., as the words have been used pejoratively in the past to ostracize and isolate the offspring of such unions.^{[citation needed]} For example, "children of the plantation" (the children of African-American slaves and their European-American masters in the U.S. Southern states) were not accepted as heirs, and in most cases, the relationship was never acknowledged, and "half-caste" conveyed the deliberate exclusion.^{[citation needed]}

I can tell you that the term is thoroughly offensive in South Africa. The stub states it is thoroughly offensive in Australia. It is potentially offensive in the USA (and certainly impolite) and in the UK.

So ... yes it appears that there is something wrong with your reading. That the wiki stub in question doesn't mention India other than to mention the term originated there (thoroughly offensive) or South Africa ... and states it is definitely offensive in Australia, potentially offensive in the US and UK ... well .. for the "rest of the English speaking world .. that leaves ... Canada (at least potentially offensive there, more probably thoroughly offensive), and New Zealand? (I would assume that it would be thoroughly offensive in NZ as well due to the indigenous Maori.)

Again using a wiki stub (brought in and un-cited by the OP) isn't a good model to work from ... but the term is certainly fraught with issues.

[jdinasia]

??

I wasn't denigrating his wife. - quite simple really - he can't spell farang - not so bright.

Man, you have a wild imagination.

The way to spell "farang" is --------- ฝรั่ง

Anything else is a transliteration. You were the one that mentioned "Isaan wife" --- you aren't getting out of that one so easily.

[yermanee]

Funny they don't seem to mind when I hold up the glass and say 'one more'..........and not...... "would you like another beer"

We are talking about pidgin English, not informal English.

Sorry but no we are not. The OP is about pidgin Thai.

Anyway I find all this ludicrous, and by some verry PC which I hate with a vengeance.

Language is about communication, and as long as people understand each other then communication has happened.

Languages are barriers, and if you don't believe me, then look up the story about the tower of Babel in the bible.

No offence intended.

Yermanee :jap:

[DP25]

No Problem with my reading but Ill post the whole text its easier . "deemed by some" and "Other English speaking

parts of the world" Seems it offends Yanks OOOOPS im being non pc again I meant Americans og h bugger is that correct or is it offensive to native Indians oh bugger done it again sheeesh cant say anything these days

I don't think most Americans would care if you called them Yank, aside from southerners. Most would just be confused. And many US expats just find it funny

As for half caste, that is extremely offensive in US. Go call a mixed race person that and see what happens. Say it to the wrong one and be ready to run.

[travelmann]

No Problem with my reading but Ill post the whole text its easier . "deemed by some" and "Other English speaking

parts of the world" Seems it offends Yanks OOOOPS im being non pc again I meant Americans og h bugger is that correct or is it offensive to native Indians oh bugger done it again sheeesh cant say anything these days

I don't think most Americans would care if you called them Yank, aside from southerners. Most would just be confused. And many US expats just find it funny

As for half caste, that is extremely offensive in US. Go call a mixed race person that and see what happens. Say it to the wrong one and be ready to run.

But you know the stupidest thing is we are all half caste couldnt be anything else a mix of infinte possibilities and thats what makes it all so stupid and pathetic. You telling me an Eskimo (ooops did it again) has no other genes in him, were all a mix mish mash and who cares ................wree all mongrels there is no pure breed there never was were all just human. How many hairs have to be split.

[saraburioz]

??

I wasn't denigrating his wife. - quite simple really - he can't spell farang - not so bright.

Man, you have a wild imagination.

The way to spell "farang" is --------- ฝรั่ง

Anything else is a transliteration. You were the one that mentioned "Isaan wife" --- you aren't getting out of that one so easily.

God, you're argumentative.

Transliteration is a spelling of a word in one language using the letters of another.

Why would you think that an Isaan wife would not be intellectual - are you racist?

[sarahsbloke]

Just like 'farang' - do you use that?

No, it's nothing like the term farang

You know what, you really could save yourself a whole lot of hassle by just putting the term into a search engine and reading what comes up. I suggest you do before you go any further.

Like this

"Half caste is deemed by some as an offensive term but often freely used by others in the United Kingdom and other English-speaking parts of the world"

I think the English language suffered a huge blow when one was no longer allowed to talk about the little 'pickaninnies'

[travelmann]

No Problem with my reading but Ill post the whole text its easier . "deemed by some" and "Other English speaking

parts of the world" Seems it offends Yanks OOOOPS im being non pc again I meant Americans og h bugger is that correct or is it offensive to native Indians oh bugger done it again sheeesh cant say anything these days

I cut out your cope of that stub --- and am reposting it modified with underlining and bold, to show where you seem to be misreading it. It isn't just "Yanks" that find it offensive (it is almost NEVER heard in the USA except in some immigrant families) http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Half-caste

Half-caste (or often mis-spelt half-cast) is a term used to describe people of mixed race or ethnicity.^[1] Caste comes from the Latin castus, meaning pure, and the dervative Portuguese and Spanish casta, meaning race. The term originates from the Indian caste system, where a person of 'lesser' or half-caste would be deemed to be of a 'lower class'. The origins of the term are derogatory.^{[citation needed]}In Australia the term is thoroughly offensive, and was used in the past to describe Indigenous people of mixed racial parentage. The term "Aboriginal" or "Indigenous" in the Australian context no longer requires that a person described by such a term has a minimum proportion of Indigenous heritage.^{[citation needed]}Terms such as "half-caste" or "part-Aboriginal" are no longer used.

Half caste is deemed by some as an offensive term but often freely used by others in the United Kingdom and other English-speaking parts of the world. An example is a child of black African and white European parentage. A preferred term might be 'Mixed Race'. The term mulatto (from Spanish "Mulato") has also been used for this particular mixture. Both the terms Half-Caste and Mulato are considered impolite and potentially offensive in the U.S., as the words have been used pejoratively in the past to ostracize and isolate the offspring of such unions.^{[citation needed]} For example, "children of the plantation" (the children of African-American slaves and their European-American masters in the U.S. Southern states) were not accepted as heirs, and in most cases, the relationship was never acknowledged, and "half-caste" conveyed the deliberate exclusion.^{[citation needed]}

I can tell you that the term is thoroughly offensive in South Africa. The stub states it is thoroughly offensive in Australia. It is potentially offensive in the USA (and certainly impolite) and in the UK.

So ... yes it appears that there is something wrong with your reading. That the wiki stub in question doesn't mention India other than to mention the term originated there (thoroughly offensive) or South Africa ... and states it is definitely offensive in Australia, potentially offensive in the US and UK ... well .. for the "rest of the English speaking world .. that leaves ... Canada (at least potentially offensive there, more probably thoroughly offensive), and New Zealand? (I would assume that it would be thoroughly offensive in NZ as well due to the indigenous Maori.)

Again using a wiki stub (brought in and un-cited by the OP) isn't a good model to work from ... but the term is certainly fraught with issues.

I really have no interest whether its true or not I was responding to the post telling another poster to look on the net for proof it was offensive and the first google listing that appeared was wiki , whether its true or not I dont care I am responondg to the "look on the net" and posting what I saw first. Here it says its "freely used" (suggesting not offensive) in other "English speaking parts of the world"

. I dont know or care if its offensive or not I am pointing out" looking at google" as suggested might not state what the poster wanted..

Theres nothing wrong with my reading but something wrong with what you think Im thinking.

[zzaa09]

It's best not to speak to children at all in your case. In fact even speaking to the adults might be a bit of a pain.

Yep. Concluded, to be sure.

[SteeleJoe]

1) I think it's odd that Farangs would try and speak Thai -- no matter what level of Thai skills they had -- to a Farang's kids, unless they knew those kids couldn't speak English. This has NEVER happened to my kids.

2) I think it's really odd that this guys calls his kids "half-caste". (And if he ever met my kids and spoke to them in any language but referred to them as "half-caste" -- I'd have some things to say to him [in Thai or English]).

Do you mind people calling your kids , 'farang'. it annoys me.

i find that amazing that noone has ever gone up to your kids and said, 'sabai dee mai' Actually, i don't believe you.

I would never call my own kids halfe-caste.

I don't even like 'look kreung'

I always use Eurasian when referring to my kids.

• I don't have a problem with "Falang". The etymological, soical and historical reasons have been discussed on this forum by myself and others ad nauseum.
• I think you're a PEJORATIVE CURSE WORD for calling me a liar (inaccurately and completely without cause).
• I think it's disgusting that you would call someone else's kids an offensive term while acknowledging that you won't use it for your own.

That post looked almost intellectual but the spelling of 'farang' gives the game away. Isaan wife mate?

let's hear from one other guy whose half-breed kids have NEVER been spoken in Thai to by a foreigner

Wow, leave for a couple hours and look what happens...

First of all, I don't give a rat's ass if it "looked intellectual" (whatever that means) or not. I stand by it and you are unable to refute any of it or even respond in an intellectually honest way and rather resort to personal comments while avoiding addressing anything.

I'm well aware of how many transliterate Falang -- how could I not be, not only do I see it here I've even seen people get self-pompous and pedantic (usually my gig) about it; I think it's pretentious and generally opt to spell it the way it's actually pronounced 90% of the time by people of all socio-economic backgrounds and regions. (Living here for nearly 3 decades and working and socializing with virtually every strata of Thai society, and being fluent in Thai for over 2 decades, I think I speak with some authority on that. I don't know any Thais who in normal conversation say it Farang -- including the university edcucated upper class Thais I work with or the ones I just asked 2 minutes ago. No doubt some will disagree with me but I stand by that.)

Secondly, where my wife does or doesn't come from is none of your business and as others have pointed out, it has no bearing on whether or not my post is valid nor is it any indication of how weak my intellect may or may not be. But unlike so many Falangs I know of in Thailand, I don't base my understanding of Thailand or the Thai language on what I get from my wife -- I had spent over 10 years here before I met here and was fluent in Thai and fairly knowledgeable about Thais (having worked hard at it) and as I said -- I have socialized and worked with Thais (my wife not among them) a very long time.

[jdinasia]

God, you're argumentative.

Transliteration is a spelling of a word in one language using the letters of another.

Why would you think that an Isaan wife would not be intellectual - are you racist?

I do get a bit pedantic ---- agreed

Transliteration is just that, a typically non-formal way (There is an official Thai government way to transliterate Thai into "English" letters).

Am I racist? Nope. I would suggest your reply to SJ might be though....

That post looked almost intellectual but the spelling of 'farang' gives the game away. Isaan wife mate?

You made the connection (not me or anyone else) ....

IMHO the appropriate response on your part would be "oooops, sorry mate, was meaning it as playful and not offensive." instead of trying to justify it. (I try carefully never to bring in someone else's family into a discussion, and if I do because it is relevant to the discussion, I try and be careful about my wording. Many people think of family as sacred and being insensitive (at best) or outright offensive is just not that nice OR smart.

(It was someone else that called you on the intellectual part ...)

I made a similar remark , about the spelling of farang, and pronunciation in Isaan not too long ago had it pointed out to me (accurately I must say) that whilst the most common local dialiect in Isaan is Isaan/Lao where they do not pronounce the R and replace it with an L, that there are also many other dialects in Isaan, including those from people that are Khmer/Thai where the R is clearly pronounced. I took my beating and changed my wording to "generally, people from ...though there are certainly exceptions such as ..."

Back to the topic .... I won't be speaking to your kids ever, unless they end up in one of the programs my company offers. Trust me, that in that situation, they will be getting proper English, proper Thai, or proper Jpanese .. though idiomatic and informal culturally appropriate language will certainly be covered as well. Other than that, what adult really wants to talk to some stranger's kids?

[StreetCowboy]

...

Wow, leave for a couple hours and look what happens...

First of all, I don't give a rat's ass if it "looked intellectual" (whatever that means) or not. I stand by it and you are unable to refute any of it or even respond in an intellectually honest way and rather resort to personal comments while avoiding addressing anything.

I'm well aware of how many transliterate Falang -- how could I not be, not only do I see it here I've even seen people get self-pompous and pedantic (usually my gig) about it; I think it's pretentious and generally opt to spell it the way it's actually pronounced 90% of the time by people of all socio-economic backgrounds and regions. (Living here for nearly 3 decades and working and socializing with virtually every strata of Thai society, and being fluent in Thai for over 2 decades, I think I speak with some authority on that. I don't know any Thais who in normal conversation say it Farang -- including the university edcucated upper class Thais I work with or the ones I just asked 2 minutes ago. No doubt some will disagree with me but I stand by that.)

Secondly, where my wife does or doesn't come from is none of your business and as others have pointed out, it has no bearing on whether or not my post is valid nor is it any indication of how weak my intellect may or may not be. But unlike so many Falangs I know of in Thailand, I don't base my understanding of Thailand or the Thai language on what I get from my wife -- I had spent over 10 years here before I met here and was fluent in Thai and fairly knowledgeable about Thais (having worked hard at it) and as I said -- I have socialized and worked with Thais (my wife not among them) a very long time.

Not wanting to be argumentative, but 'farang' was the accepted word in English conversation for Western people in Thailand amongst Thai and foreign western staff alike in our office. The meaning of the word may differ between the speaker and the listener, and the dictionary, but if the speaker and the listener agree on the meaning, then that is good enough for me. Of course, it is potentially hazardous if a third party who joins the discussion might understand something different, but that never seemed to arise.

There is a lot of discussion on this forum as to whether 'farang' is offensive - in my experience, no more so than 'consultant', or 'comedian' or 'charlatan', or any of the other synonyms and euphemisms that have appeared in my job description. One may take offence at anything, but if none was intended to be given, then to take it would seem dishonest, while if it was intended to give offence, then to decline it might be seen as erring on the side of politeness.

SC

[SteeleJoe]

God, you're argumentative.

Transliteration is a spelling of a word in one language using the letters of another.

Why would you think that an Isaan wife would not be intellectual - are you racist?

I do get a bit pedantic ---- agreed

Transliteration is just that, a typically non-formal way (There is an official Thai government way to transliterate Thai into "English" letters).

Am I racist? Nope. I would suggest your reply to SJ might be though....

That post looked almost intellectual but the spelling of 'farang' gives the game away. Isaan wife mate?

You made the connection (not me or anyone else) ....

IMHO the appropriate response on your part would be "oooops, sorry mate, was meaning it as playful and not offensive." instead of trying to justify it. (I try carefully never to bring in someone else's family into a discussion, and if I do because it is relevant to the discussion, I try and be careful about my wording. Many people think of family as sacred and being insensitive (at best) or outright offensive is just not that nice OR smart.

(It was someone else that called you on the intellectual part ...)

I made a similar remark , about the spelling of farang, and pronunciation in Isaan not too long ago had it pointed out to me (accurately I must say) that whilst the most common local dialiect in Isaan is Isaan/Lao where they do not pronounce the R and replace it with an L, that there are also many other dialects in Isaan, including those from people that are Khmer/Thai where the R is clearly pronounced. I took my beating and changed my wording to "generally, people from ...though there are certainly exceptions such as ..."

Back to the topic .... I won't be speaking to your kids ever, unless they end up in one of the programs my company offers. Trust me, that in that situation, they will be getting proper English, proper Thai, or proper Jpanese .. though idiomatic and informal culturally appropriate language will certainly be covered as well. Other than that, what adult really wants to talk to some stranger's kids?

You know, I don't want to spend any more time on this but just 2 things:

Since there's nothing more ridiculous than someone trying to look tough on the internet, I deliberately (and with some effort) refrained from voicing how strongly I feel about someone bringing my family into it. But I am one of those people you mention who thinks it's unacceptable.

And in the interest of full disclosure (prompted by guilt for making it look as if I thought you were being pretentious with the R versus L thing): I may have overstated things a bit. In truth many Thais in informal conversation do pronounce it as not quite L (but arguably not quite R either). But another thing I often find ridiculous is Falangs pontificating about proper pronunciation of Thai -- and especially about spelling Thai in the English alphabet, so I'd prefer to leave it at that.

[jdinasia]

SJ --- on the pornunciation thing, we can agree to disagree but we have discussed who I hang with and it seems to make a difference in how I hear Thai spoken The rest is, as usual, spot on .. and the dig about where your wife is from and it having any bearing on the topic .... rubbish! It was simply an uncalled for attack imho ..

Cheers!

edit --- you posted (again) while I was posting ... You know I happily take my lumps when deserved! Never any hard feelings. It is actually great to have some folks on here that are far more knowledgeable on many topics regarding Thailand than I am. I learn from you and that isn't a statement I can honestly say about many people posting on internet forums

Edited May 14, 2011 by jdinasia

[StreetCowboy]

Is there anyone on this forum who would object to me speaking mangled franglais to their kids?

What about cockney rhyming slang?

Can we discuss pop music? Football? Politics? Etymology?

Just checking, for advance information.

You never know whom you might offend...

SC

[jdinasia]

Is there anyone on this forum who would object to me speaking mangled franglais to their kids?

What about cockney rhyming slang?

Can we discuss pop music? Football? Politics? Etymology?

Just checking, for advance information.

You never know whom you might offend...

SC

If you find any of my kids wandering around Thailand you can speak to them however you want --- granted, me being gay limits that possibility somewhat, but there were a few drunken nights early on that I can't account for my behavior for the entire evening .. so who knows!

[SteeleJoe]

Is there anyone on this forum who would object to me speaking mangled franglais to their kids?

What about cockney rhyming slang?

Can we discuss pop music? Football? Politics? Etymology?

Just checking, for advance information.

You never know whom you might offend...

SC

You may either speak to my children (about certain approved topics of which a list shall be provided) in Shakespearean English or pidgin Flemish -- but you must refer to them as "children of diverse parental ethincity". Other Farang children are, of course, "coloreds".

Thank you.

--------------------------------------

JD: I'm flattered. Thanks.

Edited May 14, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[saraburioz]

Wow, leave for a couple hours and look what happens...

First of all, I don't give a rat's ass if it "looked intellectual" (whatever that means) or not. I stand by it and you are unable to refute any of it or even respond in an intellectually honest way and rather resort to personal comments while avoiding addressing anything.

I'm well aware of how many transliterate Falang -- how could I not be, not only do I see it here I've even seen people get self-pompous and pedantic (usually my gig) about it; I think it's pretentious and generally opt to spell it the way it's actually pronounced 90% of the time by people of all socio-economic backgrounds and regions. (Living here for nearly 3 decades and working and socializing with virtually every strata of Thai society, and being fluent in Thai for over 2 decades, I think I speak with some authority on that. I don't know any Thais who in normal conversation say it Farang -- including the university edcucated upper class Thais I work with or the ones I just asked 2 minutes ago. No doubt some will disagree with me but I stand by that.)

Secondly, where my wife does or doesn't come from is none of your business and as others have pointed out, it has no bearing on whether or not my post is valid nor is it any indication of how weak my intellect may or may not be. But unlike so many Falangs I know of in Thailand, I don't base my understanding of Thailand or the Thai language on what I get from my wife -- I had spent over 10 years here before I met here and was fluent in Thai and fairly knowledgeable about Thais (having worked hard at it) and as I said -- I have socialized and worked with Thais (my wife not among them) a very long time.

Now I really don't believe you. What a load of codswallop. In 20 years of living here ALL the farang that say falang have either girlfriends from Isaan or have spent time hanging out in beer bars. And, I actually am pretty fluent in Thai and can assure you that the majority of Thais do pronounce it farang. Go on admit it - you actually thought it was spelled falang.

So, your wife is from Isaan. My wife is very proud of her Laos heritage, so am I. Be proud of your Isaan wife. Actually, she says it with a very pronounced 'r'.

No Thai high-so i know would EVER EVER say falang - that's about the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard.

I think it's pretentious and generally opt to spell it the way it's actually pronounced 90% of the time by people of all socio-economic backgrounds and regions.

Edited May 14, 2011 by saraburioz

[HeavyDrinker]

Be proud of your Isaan wife.

Well said sir.

My wife was born in Droitwitch Spa to a mother from Khon Kaen and a father from Bangkok and she loves being reminded of her Isaan roots...

[jdinasia]

Sara --- you may want to look into SJ's posting history regarding the "farang" topic .... and I have corrected (playfully) the Thai of some of my Thai friends when they get lazy with the r/l issue ... (just as they have hit me with "dcha" as in wouldcha, couldcha in my pronunciation of English ...

You are still deflecting from taking a totally unwarranted pot-shot at his wife earlier.

[SteeleJoe]

Nothing to admit -- in English it's spelled (by me) the way I choose to spell it. And on a couple of occasions I have used the R on this forum. But what is your malfunction about this and what bearing does it have on anything here?

By the way, where did I say or imply I had never spent time in bars? I haven't for years but I used to quite a lot and if you go back far enough I ran them (not beer bars though -- that was the minority). Are you unaware of what "working and socializing with virtually every strata of Thai society" means? Of course whether I spent time in bars or not that's no more material or any more of your business than my family is.

And I'd thank you to shut up about my wife.

[saraburioz]

Sara --- you may want to look into SJ's posting history regarding the "farang" topic .... and I have corrected (playfully) the Thai of some of my Thai friends when they get lazy with the r/l issue ... (just as they have hit me with "dcha" as in wouldcha, couldcha in my pronunciation of English ...

You are still deflecting from taking a totally unwarranted pot-shot at his wife earlier.

JD - it really wasn't a pot-shot. I love the Isaan people. I'll take a look maybe.

[StreetCowboy]

Is there anyone on this forum who would object to me speaking mangled franglais to their kids?

What about cockney rhyming slang?

Can we discuss pop music? Football? Politics? Etymology?

Just checking, for advance information.

You never know whom you might offend...

SC

You may either speak to my children (about certain approved topics of which a list shall be provided) in Shakespearean English or pidgin Flemish -- but you must refer to them as "children of diverse parental ethincity". Other Farang children are, of course, "coloreds".

Thank you.

--------------------------------------

JD: I'm flattered. Thanks.

Forsooth; thy magnanimity knowest no bounds and thy progeny thereof shall doubtless become thus learned and wise.

They'll probably get a right kicking if they talk like that at college, though

SC

[SteeleJoe]

I'm well aware of how many transliterate Falang -- how could I not be, not only do I see it here I've even seen people get self-pompous and pedantic (usually my gig) about it; I think it's pretentious and generally opt to spell it the way it's actually pronounced 90% of the time by people of all socio-economic backgrounds and regions. (Living here for nearly 3 decades and working and socializing with virtually every strata of Thai society, and being fluent in Thai for over 2 decades, I think I speak with some authority on that. I don't know any Thais who in normal conversation say it Farang -- including the university edcucated upper class Thais I work with or the ones I just asked 2 minutes ago. No doubt some will disagree with me but I stand by that.)

last month you posted that you have been fluent in Thai for 28 years.

http://www.thaivisa....g/page__st__100

Sounds very much like, and writes like another English teacher full of shit.

Wow. You are really strange. Now you've researched my posts (odd) and decided what my profession is (odder) and think that bears posting about (oddest).

I first came to Thailand 30 years ago. I learned Thai in that first 15 months and continued working on it at home. I came back and have lived and worker here for over 2 decades.

Sorry Inspector but I'm not sure what you'e proved with your red font.

[jdinasia]

I'm well aware of how many transliterate Falang -- how could I not be, not only do I see it here I've even seen people get self-pompous and pedantic (usually my gig) about it; I think it's pretentious and generally opt to spell it the way it's actually pronounced 90% of the time by people of all socio-economic backgrounds and regions. (Living here for nearly 3 decades and working and socializing with virtually every strata of Thai society, and being fluent in Thai for over 2 decades, I think I speak with some authority on that. I don't know any Thais who in normal conversation say it Farang -- including the university edcucated upper class Thais I work with or the ones I just asked 2 minutes ago. No doubt some will disagree with me but I stand by that.)

last month you posted that you have been fluent in Thai for 28 years.

http://www.thaivisa....g/page__st__100

Sounds very much like, and writes like another English teacher full of shit.

Is 28 years not "over 2 decades"?

Had I stuck with the Intensive Thai language program at Chula (where I started learning Thai) I would have been "fluent" in about 13 months ...

Nice of you to make yet another personal attack in your post though! Your first attack was unwarranted as is this one imho

[SteeleJoe]

I just realized that maybe I shouldn't have said it was odd for Saraburi to research my posts since perhaps he was just taking up JD's suggestion to check out my history on the topic; having said that, given that in the very thread he links I use Farang repeatedly -- and post at some length about the words origins and its counterparts in other languages etc, you'd think if he had any integrity he'd acknowledge that he erred with his bizzare goading of me to "admit" that I was ignorant of the correct spelling.

But why am I (or my wife's birthplace or my job) a topic in this thread?

(I personally haven't felt compelled to make up stuff about any other poster on this thread and randomly throw it in, and haven't done it even once.)

Edited May 14, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[473geo]

I just realized that maybe I shouldn't have said it was odd for Saraburi to research my posts since perhaps he was just taking up JD's suggestion to check out my history on the topic; having said that, given that in the very thread he links I use Farang repeatedly -- and post at some length about the words origins and its counterparts in other languages etc, you'd think if he had any integrity he'd acknowledge that he erred with his bizzare goading of me to "admit" that I was ignorant of the correct spelling.

But why am I (or my wife's birthplace or my job) a topic in this thread?

(I personally haven't felt compelled to make up stuff about any other poster on this thread and randomly throw it in, and haven't done it even once.)

Perhaps comments on pidgin Thai would not have involved such a wayward track as you and your pupil travelled with sara......

Back on topic I seldom speak Thai to my children because I know it is not up to standard, as for foreigners speaking Pidgin Thai.....I doubt they see any that are fluent enough to say much more than hello. When confronted with the type of comments offered surrounding children with mixed parentage I offer up my own radical solution. My children were born in Thailand, they live in Thailand and they are Thai, with a Farang (spell it any way you like) papa. Later in life they can make their own decisions, for now they will be Thai children, in the countryside and roam free among their family and friends.

You may also at any time praise my wife from Issan who works very hard every day, takes care of her family and the children, is intelligent, caring and has a great sense of humour.

You see SJ if you are going off on a tangent why not pick a pleasant direction to go?

Edited May 14, 2011 by 473geo

[SteeleJoe]

I just realized that maybe I shouldn't have said it was odd for Saraburi to research my posts since perhaps he was just taking up JD's suggestion to check out my history on the topic; having said that, given that in the very thread he links I use Farang repeatedly -- and post at some length about the words origins and its counterparts in other languages etc, you'd think if he had any integrity he'd acknowledge that he erred with his bizzare goading of me to "admit" that I was ignorant of the correct spelling.

But why am I (or my wife's birthplace or my job) a topic in this thread?

(I personally haven't felt compelled to make up stuff about any other poster on this thread and randomly throw it in, and haven't done it even once.)

Perhaps comments on pidgin Thai would not have involved such a wayward track as you and your pupil travelled with sara......

Back on topic I seldom speak Thai to my children because I know it is not up to standard, as for foreigners speaking Pidgin Thai.....I doubt they see any that are fluent enough to say much more than hello. When confronted with the type of comments offered surrounding children with mixed parentage I offer up my own radical solution. My children were born in Thailand, they live in Thailand and they are Thai, with a Farang (spell it any way you like) papa. Later in life they can make their own decisions, for now they will be Thai children, in the countryside and roam free among their family and friends.

You may also at any time praise my wife from Issan who works very hard every day, takes care of her family and the children, is intelligent, caring and has a great sense of humour.

You see SJ if you are going off on a tangent why not pick a pleasant direction to go?

I didn't choose the wayward track or to go off on a tangent. That was Saraburi (post #81). Nor was it me that decided to make it unpleasant.

Edited May 14, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[StreetCowboy]

How deep are you willing to delve, to draw out offence? You're not pearl fishermen, and if you were, I'd hope you were diving for something more attractive than perceived personal sligthts

SC

[473geo]

I just realized that maybe I shouldn't have said it was odd for Saraburi to research my posts since perhaps he was just taking up JD's suggestion to check out my history on the topic; having said that, given that in the very thread he links I use Farang repeatedly -- and post at some length about the words origins and its counterparts in other languages etc, you'd think if he had any integrity he'd acknowledge that he erred with his bizzare goading of me to "admit" that I was ignorant of the correct spelling.

But why am I (or my wife's birthplace or my job) a topic in this thread?

(I personally haven't felt compelled to make up stuff about any other poster on this thread and randomly throw it in, and haven't done it even once.)

Perhaps comments on pidgin Thai would not have involved such a wayward track as you and your pupil travelled with sara......

Back on topic I seldom speak Thai to my children because I know it is not up to standard, as for foreigners speaking Pidgin Thai.....I doubt they see any that are fluent enough to say much more than hello. When confronted with the type of comments offered surrounding children with mixed parentage I offer up my own radical solution. My children were born in Thailand, they live in Thailand and they are Thai, with a Farang (spell it any way you like) papa. Later in life they can make their own decisions, for now they will be Thai children, in the countryside and roam free among their family and friends.

You may also at any time praise my wife from Issan who works very hard every day, takes care of her family and the children, is intelligent, caring and has a great sense of humour.

You see SJ if you are going off on a tangent why not pick a pleasant direction to go?

I didn't choose the wayward track or to go off on a tangent. That was Saraburi (post #81). Nor was it me that decided to make it unpleasant.

but never the less you followed and became involved....yes? don't get into a pig pen then complain when it doesn't smell of roses......and now you further add sulphur to the stink by accusing him of having no integrity.......all because he led you off topic of course.....