Why Thailand’s Sexpat Community Hates Thaksin

[gemini81]

Just let me clue you in Mr.Dan Waites.

This sort of stereo typing is ugly demeaning insulting and completely false.

Yes there are a handful like this but not as many as you would want us to believe in your stupid story.

Most of my friends are ex-military, or retired form a successful career in the petroleum business. And worked here for contractors servicing Union Oil Thailand.

We stayed for various reasons. For one our retirement pay would not go very far in our home countries. Second some of us are sic of the politics, over regulation and ignorant liberalism that allow black men to call a white man honky, a Muslim to call us filthy infidels, a mexican to call us white trash. But let one of us call one a negro, a terrorist or a wetback and we go to JAIL and get fined for discrimination. They can burn our flags but we cant burn theirs, they can burn a bible but we can not burn a koran. Just like the spell check in Microsoft bible can be in lower case but koran must be upper case. Stupid liberal crap

Regulation yea the Department of Energy demands and will fine and jail you if you do not install a toilet that saves water and the dang thing does NOT WORK. And this is in more than one country. You must have a % of mexican negro or others in your business if you employ more that 25 people. And if you run a business of call center help, answering service or the like YOU MUST HAVE SPANISH, or they shutdown your business and fine you.

...

Is that for real or irony?

that is true about the USA. Another reason I decided to take a contract for the company abroad. the political correctness is sickening, and worse yet that the younger generation buy into it hooker, line, and sinker.

Many reasons people come to stay/work in thailand. If this Dan character can only think of hookers and drunks, it shows me he must hang out a lot in places like this, if that is only as far as he can see. Dan, take a trip to silom or sathorn, where there are tons of hard working, if not wealthy white skinned people there.......may be a bit out of your league and class, author dan...but I recommend you look beyond your favorite underground brothel.

Edited May 20, 2011 by gemini81

[samurai]

Should be easy for a good professional journalist to contradict these stereotypes with real facts and write an article with the title:

Why Thailand’s sexpat community loves Thaksin

[atyclb]

350 mostly defensive replies in less than a day. The writer will soon have enough additional research data for a follow-up article where he establishes a psychological profile that validates his original story.

Hehe Guess your right !

Most excellent

[animatic]

I agree with many points in this article. I have only been in Thailand just over one year and have found that the stereotypical sexpat moniker applies to the vast majority of expats I have met in Pattaya and Phuket (I have no desire to ever return to either of these places), but not the ones I have met in Udon Thani, Kabin Buri or Hua Hin.

I have no complaints against all the negative replies to this article. They are no different from the majority of replies to any given news article I read in my home country, other than the fact that those who chose to reply to specific negative posters cannot say, "If you don't like it and choose to complain, why don't you go back to your own country."

A couple of points I would like to touch upon though that I have not seen mentioned yet. While travelling through Thailand, while in the company of thai people, virtually everytime I bring the topic around to prostitution and mention how ashamed I am to see the sexpats practicing their vices in places like Pattaya, Patong and Bangkok, I am assured that the majority of prostitution that occurs in Thailand is between thai men and women. On the occassions I have brought up the topic I have been told that less than 10% of the prostitution that occurs in Thailand focusses on foreigners ( I do not know how they come up with that %figure, but I have heard the same statistic mentioned at least 3 times), and have even been driven through the shanty towns in the countrysides by my guides where thai for thai prostitution occurs, to prove their point.

One other statistic I think worth mentioning is that while I agree with the author (because it has been my experience also), that the vast majority of expat business owners I have met really do hate Thaksin, so do the vast majority of thai business owners that I have met. Out of all the thai business men and women I have had the pleasure of golfing or dining with, I have only met one who was a vocal supporter of the red-shirts. The rhetoric that the thai people I have met who dislike the red-shirts and their leader almost always mirrors that which the expat business community uses, and I doubt very much that the rhetoric thais themselves use when voicing their dislike comes from listening to farang or reading english media. I have also found that most educated thai people I have met in the business community, do not blame foreigners for the erosion of thai culture or its rampant corruption, and tell me it precedes the influx of foreigners to their country.

Yes, the educated middle class Thais are more likely not to be swayed by propaganda, and more by several layers of public facts, and their own public observations of Thaksin. Most have seen the repercussions on their successful businesses by Thaksins machinations and know they are NOT for the general good, but totally self serving.

Why there is such an OBVIOUS push on Thaivisa to convince us expats and 30% Thais, that Thaksin is the light and the way, is beyond comprehension.

No doubt there are new TVF members who are just that, new interested persons, but there is also an obvious influx of one-note, pro Thaksin, posters with slightly varied, and unsubtle variations on the same pro-Thaksin theme, and NOTHING else that they do here... Nada, nothing, zip. There is very little obvious rebuttal by a huge influx of new members. One or two, vs. dozens. It seems Thaksins opposing side is MUCH less desperate to convince TVF members to talk them up.

I just keep wondering... who exactly are they trying to sway and why?

Are our 'disenting voices' listened to so much, or too much, that it has caused a trickle down effect with Thais in the new communication age we all live in? Must we be silenced to win the election?

The same voices that say we are wrong, and 'shut up you don't matter here', keep trying to get us to change our tune or shut up. We must be pretty scary to them, to go to such a great effort.

Edited May 20, 2011 by animatic

[Ulysses G.]

the stereotypical sexpat moniker applies to the vast majority of expats I have met in Pattaya and Phuket (I have no desire to ever return to either of these places), but not the ones I have met in Udon Thani, Kabin Buri or Hua Hin.

Udon Thani and Hua Hin? Are you sure that you have been to any of these places?

[atyclb]

I agree with many points in this article. I have only been in Thailand just over one year and have found that the stereotypical sexpat moniker applies to the vast majority of expats I have met in Pattaya and Phuket (I have no desire to ever return to either of these places), but not the ones I have met in Udon Thani, Kabin Buri or Hua Hin.

Perhaps if your timing had been different you could have met them in Patong or Pattaya before they moved to the other cities.

I know personally a guy that retired to Pattaya believing it was a dream come true, heaven on earth. He sold his houses abroad but after 1.5 years in Pattaya had exhausted much of his savings, then he moved to somewhere deep in Issan (inexpensive cost of living)with a woman he found in Pattaya. Reality was to eat vs not eat and run out of money in Pattaya.

[homeslice]

If anyone wonders why the Thai's think we're a bunch of idiots all they have to do is take a look at this debate.

It's a healthy dialog among people of many circles and levels of education. Something in which certainly idiots, and most Thai people, are incapable of participating. The average IQ of Thai people is one reason why the sex trade flourishes to the point that it is fodder for debate by pathetic journalists and readers. If we are thought of as idiots by Thai people, it is in slang form only that most of them are capable of making the conclusion. Additionally, if there is anyone in this country that I have empathy for it is the sweet well meaning person who has never had an opportunity, and who's life's aspiration, if they have any, is crippled by corruption, ie; Thaskin, and politicians in general. These people work menial jobs for low pay and aren't anywhere near soi cowboy.

In 19th and early 20th century medicine and psychology, an "idiot" was a person with a very severe mental retardation. In the early 1900s, Dr. Henry H. Goddard proposed a classification system for mental retardation based on the Binet-Simon concept of mental age. Individuals with the lowest mental age level (less than three years) were identified as idiots; imbeciles had a mental age of three to 7 years, and morons had a mental age of seven to ten years.[7] IQ, or intelligence quotient, is determined by dividing a person's mental age, as determined by standardized tests, by their actual age. The term "idiot" was used to refer to people having an IQ below 30.[8][9]

In current medical classification, these people are now said to have profound mental retardation.

There has been concern in recent years regarding the low IQ scores of many Thai youth. A study in the Nation newspaper reported that the "Department of Health and the Department of Mental Health will (make) an effort to combat low intelligence, after it found the average IQ level among many youths was lower than 80."[44] In 2006, the Vice Minister for Education Watchara Phanchet reported that "the average intelligence quotient (IQ) of Thai children, somewhere between 87 and 88 points, remains in the "low average" category when ranked internationally.

[pastitche]

Thaksin might have abused his position somewhat and "lined his own nest" ...

BUT AT LEAST HE HELPED THE "LITTLE" THAI PEOPLE !!!

The hard-working Thai people in the villages LOVE him !!

No they dont!! Not in all villages by any means!!! isan and Chiang Mai where hes bought people maybe but Tak Sukhothai and Pitsanalot people CERTAINLY dont feel like that about him.

Thais are NOT stupid!!

I know the background to your visceral dislike of Thaksin and the Red Shirt movement and I have deep sympathy for your dreadful experience. I live in Phitsanulok and have family and friends here and in Sukhothai and they all are basically PTP/Thaksin supporters. I personally have no strong feelings for or against either of the power groups which want to have their noses in the trough of Thailand's wealth, so please no accusations from the outraged Democrats out there.

[jayboy]

So many = two or three.

The real Thaksin haters, I mean the really obsessive ones to the point their hatred obscures reason and judgement, are relatively few.There is an equally small number, overlapping with the former group, of military cheerleaders with unblinking support for the feudal elite.Though small in number they seem to be greater since they are prolific posters.

[atyclb]

I agree with many points in this article. I have only been in Thailand just over one year and have found that the stereotypical sexpat moniker applies to the vast majority of expats I have met in Pattaya and Phuket (I have no desire to ever return to either of these places), but not the ones I have met in Udon Thani, Kabin Buri or Hua Hin.

I have no complaints against all the negative replies to this article. They are no different from the majority of replies to any given news article I read in my home country, other than the fact that those who chose to reply to specific negative posters cannot say, "If you don't like it and choose to complain, why don't you go back to your own country."

A couple of points I would like to touch upon though that I have not seen mentioned yet. While travelling through Thailand, while in the company of thai people, virtually everytime I bring the topic around to prostitution and mention how ashamed I am to see the sexpats practicing their vices in places like Pattaya, Patong and Bangkok, I am assured that the majority of prostitution that occurs in Thailand is between thai men and women. On the occassions I have brought up the topic I have been told that less than 10% of the prostitution that occurs in Thailand focusses on foreigners ( I do not know how they come up with that %figure, but I have heard the same statistic mentioned at least 3 times), and have even been driven through the shanty towns in the countrysides by my guides where thai for thai prostitution occurs, to prove their point.

One other statistic I think worth mentioning is that while I agree with the author (because it has been my experience also), that the vast majority of expat business owners I have met really do hate Thaksin, so do the vast majority of thai business owners that I have met. Out of all the thai business men and women I have had the pleasure of golfing or dining with, I have only met one who was a vocal supporter of the red-shirts. The rhetoric that the thai people I have met who dislike the red-shirts and their leader almost always mirrors that which the expat business community uses, and I doubt very much that the rhetoric thais themselves use when voicing their dislike comes from listening to farang or reading english media. I have also found that most educated thai people I have met in the business community, do not blame foreigners for the erosion of thai culture or its rampant corruption, and tell me it precedes the influx of foreigners to their country.

Yes the educated middle class Thais are more likely not to be swayed by propaganda, and more by several layers of public facts, and their own public observations of Thaksin. Why there is such an OBVIOUS push on Thaivisa to convince us expats and 30% Thais, that Thaksin is the light and the way is beyond comprehension.

No doubt there are new TVF members who are just that, new interested persons, but there is also an obvious influx of one-note, pro Thaksin, posters with slight, and unsubtle variations on the same pro-Thaksin theme, and NOTHING else that they do... Nada nothing zip. There is very little obvious rebuttal by a huge influx of new members. It seems Thaksins opposing side is MUCH less desperate to convince TVF members to talk them up.

I just keep wondering... who exactly are they trying to sway and why?'

Are our disenting voices listened to so much, or too much, that it has caused a trickle down effect with Thais in the new communication age we all live in?

The same voices that say we are wrong and shut up you don't matter, keep trying to get us to change our tune or shut up. We must be pretty scare to them to go to such a great effort.

Maybe they are not trying to sway anybody, but it gets them clicks on the sponsored ads you see on this topic.

[samurai]

Just let me clue you in Mr.Dan Waites.

This sort of stereo typing is ugly demeaning insulting and completely false.

Yes there are a handful like this but not as many as you would want us to believe in your stupid story.

Most of my friends are ex-military, or retired form a successful career in the petroleum business. And worked here for contractors servicing Union Oil Thailand.

We stayed for various reasons. For one our retirement pay would not go very far in our home countries. Second some of us are sic of the politics, over regulation and ignorant liberalism that allow black men to call a white man honky, a Muslim to call us filthy infidels, a mexican to call us white trash. But let one of us call one a negro, a terrorist or a wetback and we go to JAIL and get fined for discrimination. They can burn our flags but we cant burn theirs, they can burn a bible but we can not burn a koran. Just like the spell check in Microsoft bible can be in lower case but koran must be upper case. Stupid liberal crap

Regulation yea the Department of Energy demands and will fine and jail you if you do not install a toilet that saves water and the dang thing does NOT WORK. And this is in more than one country. You must have a % of mexican negro or others in your business if you employ more that 25 people. And if you run a business of call center help, answering service or the like YOU MUST HAVE SPANISH, or they shutdown your business and fine you.

...

Is that for real or irony?

that is true about the USA. Another reason I decided to take a contract for the company abroad. the political correctness is sickening, and worse yet that the younger generation buy into it hooker, line, and sinker.

Many reasons people come to stay/work in thailand. If this Dan character can only think of hookers and drunks, it shows me he must hang out a lot in places like this, if that is only as far as he can see. Dan, take a trip to silom or sathorn, where there are tons of hard working, if not wealthy white skinned people there.......may be a bit out of your league and class, author dan...but I recommend you look beyond your favorite underground brothel.

But it reads like a confirmation of a stereotype.

- retired form a successful career in the petroleum business.

- our retirement pay would not go very far in our home countries

and complains about % of mexican negro back home.

Do you think only white skinned people do work really hard?

[animatic]

Thaksin might have abused his position somewhat and "lined his own nest" ...

BUT AT LEAST HE HELPED THE "LITTLE" THAI PEOPLE !!!

The hard-working Thai people in the villages LOVE him !!

No they dont!! Not in all villages by any means!!! isan and Chiang Mai where hes bought people maybe but Tak Sukhothai and Pitsanalot people CERTAINLY dont feel like that about him.

Thais are NOT stupid!!

I know the background to your visceral dislike of Thaksin and the Red Shirt movement and I have deep sympathy for your dreadful experience. I live in Phitsanulok and have family and friends here and in Sukhothai and they all are basically PTP/Thaksin supporters. I personally have no strong feelings for or against either of the power groups which want to have their noses in the trough of Thailand's wealth, so please no accusations from the outraged Democrats out there.

Well couldn't it be that

Thaksin Supporters group together,

and Thaksin haters group together,

and if your wife's family like Thaksin, then most of their friends that you will meet ALSO will like Thaksin. But you are not meeting the others, or they aren't saying it out loud around your circle.

Most Thais tend to avoid confrontation, and not saying they dislike Thaksin around a Pro Thaklsin family, is a good way to NOT have confrontation. But that doesn't mean they don't hate Thaksin

Edited May 20, 2011 by animatic

[jayboy]

Yes, the educated middle class Thais are more likely not to be swayed by propaganda, and more by several layers of public facts, and their own public observations of Thaksin. Most have seen the repercussions on their successful businesses by Thaksins machinations and know they are NOT for the general good, but totally self serving.

Why there is such an OBVIOUS push on Thaivisa to convince us expats and 30% Thais, that Thaksin is the light and the way, is beyond comprehension.

No doubt there are new TVF members who are just that, new interested persons, but there is also an obvious influx of one-note, pro Thaksin, posters with slightly varied, and unsubtle variations on the same pro-Thaksin theme, and NOTHING else that they do here... Nada, nothing, zip. There is very little obvious rebuttal by a huge influx of new members. One or two, vs. dozens. It seems Thaksins opposing side is MUCH less desperate to convince TVF members to talk them up.

I just keep wondering... who exactly are they trying to sway and why?

Are our 'disenting voices' listened to so much, or too much, that it has caused a trickle down effect with Thais in the new communication age we all live in? Must we be silenced to win the election?

The same voices that say we are wrong, and 'shut up you don't matter here', keep trying to get us to change our tune or shut up. We must be pretty scary to them, to go to such a great effort.

It's amusing you have adopted the same phrase I have used from time to time, the "one note" propagandist.I suppose I should be flattered.

I wonder whether you have been following another Thai Visa forum in an alternative timestream.I certainly am not aware of other than a tiny minority of members proselytising for Thaksin or with a specific attachment to the man.There is a much larger number, including myself, generally sympathetic to the redshirt movement but feeling perhaps with its weak leadership it isn't ready for power.Technically the Abhisit/Korn pairing is a strong one and a vote for the Dems is an entirely rational one.None of this however gets over the fundamental division in Thai politics and the need for the ruling elite to have its wings clipped.

Your comments on the new influx to Thai Visa seem slightly unhinged.They remind me of that great scene in one of the Men in Black (oops, what a creepy coincidence) where Will Smith opens a cupboard to find a race of tiny aliens who believe that is the whole universe.Yeah,we are all scared to death of your "dissenting voices".

[dunkin2012]

I agree with many points in this article. I have only been in Thailand just over one year and have found that the stereotypical sexpat moniker applies to the vast majority of expats I have met in Pattaya and Phuket (I have no desire to ever return to either of these places), but not the ones I have met in Udon Thani, Kabin Buri or Hua Hin.

Perhaps if your timing had been different you could have met them in Patong or Pattaya before they moved to the other cities.

I know personally a guy that retired to Pattaya believing it was a dream come true, heaven on earth. He sold his houses abroad but after 1.5 years in Pattaya had exhausted much of his savings, then he moved to somewhere deep in Issan (inexpensive cost of living)with a woman he found in Pattaya. Reality was to eat vs not eat and run out of money in Pattaya.

similarly, met an Aussie near Pattaya got lots of money from retirement,QLD's gov.

went broke only just in a year later. Bought a house under the name of his daughter in law. imagine what happened......

The wife is dead. Married a new Thai and she likes to gamble.

Visa expired! Told him to go back but he said No to Aust. Last info. he lived somewhere in BKK.

The embassy said there is the max. fine on that. can't recall how much.

[rixalex]

So many = two or three.

The real Thaksin haters, I mean the really obsessive ones to the point their hatred obscures reason and judgement, are relatively few.There is an equally small number, overlapping with the former group, of military cheerleaders with unblinking support for the feudal elite.Though small in number they seem to be greater since they are prolific posters.

OK. Thanks for that. Fascinating.

[luckizuchinni]

I read your earlier post and thought it hit the nail on the head.

Why do you assume though, that because people get angry about a point of view, that must mean that it has hit a nerve, that there is some truth to it and that it must be insulting them personally?

Do you find yourself only ever angry about a point of view when it accurately and personally insults you? If so, fine, that's you, but don't assume everyone's emotions work in the same way.

I never get angry over an exchange in an anonymous internet forum.None of it is important enough.

On reflection, perhaps angry was the wrong word. You are right. None of what is written here, is really worth that emotion. Impassioned is probably more accurate. And don't tell me you have never been impassioned when responding here. You have. So, going back to my original question, slightly rephrased, why assume that simply because people are impassioned about an opinion written, that therefore must mean that there was truth in that opinion and that truth personally insulted them? Do you think it is impossible to be so moved unless someone has hit your nerve; has struck on some embarrassing truth about you?

I get "impassioned" when I read about women being doused with acid if they "shame" their husbands. I get "impassioned" when I read about children losing their eyesight in Africa when a $1/year medication could do away with that. Yet I am not a woman in India or Pakistan nor a child in Ghana.

So I don't think you have to strike a nerve nor be insulted to be impassioned or angry about something you read online.

Edited May 20, 2011 by luckizuchinni

[SteeleJoe]

Just let me clue you in Mr.Dan Waites.

This sort of stereo typing is ugly demeaning insulting and completely false.

Yes there are a handful like this but not as many as you would want us to believe in your stupid story.

Most of my friends are ex-military, or retired form a successful career in the petroleum business. And worked here for contractors servicing Union Oil Thailand.

We stayed for various reasons. For one our retirement pay would not go very far in our home countries. Second some of us are sic of the politics, over regulation and ignorant liberalism that allow black men to call a white man honky, a Muslim to call us filthy infidels, a mexican to call us white trash. But let one of us call one a negro, a terrorist or a wetback and we go to JAIL and get fined for discrimination. They can burn our flags but we cant burn theirs, they can burn a bible but we can not burn a koran. Just like the spell check in Microsoft bible can be in lower case but koran must be upper case. Stupid liberal crap

Regulation yea the Department of Energy demands and will fine and jail you if you do not install a toilet that saves water and the dang thing does NOT WORK. And this is in more than one country. You must have a % of mexican negro or others in your business if you employ more that 25 people. And if you run a business of call center help, answering service or the like YOU MUST HAVE SPANISH, or they shutdown your business and fine you.

...

Is that for real or irony?

that is true about the USA. Another reason I decided to take a contract for the company abroad. the political correctness is sickening, and worse yet that the younger generation buy into it hooker, line, and sinker.

Many reasons people come to stay/work in thailand. If this Dan character can only think of hookers and drunks, it shows me he must hang out a lot in places like this, if that is only as far as he can see. Dan, take a trip to silom or sathorn, where there are tons of hard working, if not wealthy white skinned people there.......may be a bit out of your league and class, author dan...but I recommend you look beyond your favorite underground brothel.

The article says:

(The sexpat stereotype is) an ugly stereotype. Or, rather, it’s several ugly stereotypes rolled into one. And it’s also wildly inaccurate in the case of many expats, who are decent people living in Thailand for any number of decent reasons.

I point this out only because I find it increasingly odd how many people seem to not see everything in the article and yet see things that aren't there.

[animatic]

So many = two or three.

The real Thaksin haters, I mean the really obsessive ones to the point their hatred obscures reason and judgement, are relatively few.There is an equally small number, overlapping with the former group, of military cheerleaders with unblinking support for the feudal elite.Though small in number they seem to be greater since they are prolific posters.

OK. Thanks for that. Fascinating.

Some appear to have a firmly held belief in what is desired to be seen as their realities.

Probably as a rationalization mechanism. But it comes off more as just wishful imaginings.

Yes, that seems about right.

[Tiffer]

Interesting responses.

1. It seems Dan's traffic generator "Opinion" has worked for Thaivisa

2. He is wrong to categorise all expats as sexpats

3. He is correct to say that many (not all) Thaivisa members are winging malcontent expats

[MrBrightside]

It was a well written article. Most of you couldn't dream about writing anything to that standard.

Choices, choices, choices..... which smiley to use, could be this one or this one certainly not this one :jap:

comes to mind, like, and gives an indication how fast to off the whole thing

Sorry, I forgot: You guys are all queuing up for awards in journalistic excellence.

Now, which smiley to insert here I wonder....?

[animatic]

Yes, the educated middle class Thais are more likely not to be swayed by propaganda, and more by several layers of public facts, and their own public observations of Thaksin. Most have seen the repercussions on their successful businesses by Thaksins machinations and know they are NOT for the general good, but totally self serving.

Why there is such an OBVIOUS push on Thaivisa to convince us expats and 30% Thais, that Thaksin is the light and the way, is beyond comprehension.

No doubt there are new TVF members who are just that, new interested persons, but there is also an obvious influx of one-note, pro Thaksin, posters with slightly varied, and unsubtle variations on the same pro-Thaksin theme, and NOTHING else that they do here... Nada, nothing, zip. There is very little obvious rebuttal by a huge influx of new members. One or two, vs. dozens. It seems Thaksins opposing side is MUCH less desperate to convince TVF members to talk them up.

I just keep wondering... who exactly are they trying to sway and why?

Are our 'disenting voices' listened to so much, or too much, that it has caused a trickle down effect with Thais in the new communication age we all live in? Must we be silenced to win the election?

The same voices that say we are wrong, and 'shut up you don't matter here', keep trying to get us to change our tune or shut up. We must be pretty scary to them, to go to such a great effort.

It's amusing you have adopted the same phrase I have used from time to time, the "one note" propagandist.I suppose I should be flattered.

I wonder whether you have been following another Thai Visa forum in an alternative timestream.I certainly am not aware of other than a tiny minority of members proselytising for Thaksin or with a specific attachment to the man.There is a much larger number, including myself, generally sympathetic to the redshirt movement but feeling perhaps with its weak leadership it isn't ready for power.Technically the Abhisit/Korn pairing is a strong one and a vote for the Dems is an entirely rational one.None of this however gets over the fundamental division in Thai politics and the need for the ruling elite to have its wings clipped.

Your comments on the new influx to Thai Visa seem slightly unhinged.They remind me of that great scene in one of the Men in Black (oops, what a creepy coincidence) where Will Smith opens a cupboard to find a race of tiny aliens who believe that is the whole universe.Yeah,we are all scared to death of your "dissenting voices".

I deleted the phrase "One Note Sambaists, dancing to their own tune." to be more concise.

Don't flatter yourself.

As has been stated many times most of the anti-Thaksin posters are anti-Redshirt LEADERS, because they are his obvious tools, but few, if any at all, are against the average Somchai of red or yellow leanings or non-aligned.

"a vote for the Dems is an entirely rational one." Yes, it certainly is.

[NovaBlue05]

I have a hard time being able to understand how western expats can muster such a visceral hatred of Thaksin. I can certainly arrive at that level of passion for politicians in my own country as their actions have direct impacts to my taxes, pension and other things that directly affect my life whether I am there or in Thailand.. Thaksin?....He's was just another rich, corrupt politician like many before and since. Yet, he seems to have been elevated to almost mythical status among some of the farang here.

What was the real trigger? Was it closing the bars early and trying clean up the fleshpots as Khun Dan suggests or something else? There must be a reason why, when a thread with Thaksins name in it posts on TV, there will always be a lot of replies with some seemingly frothing on their keyboard as they work furiously to make their hatred known.

Most of the commentary so far consists of gratuitous insults about the writers journalistic ability or a demonstrated inability to comprehend what he has written.

The writer is making more sense the longer this thread continues.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post and replies have been removed.

[mrtoad]

What was the real trigger? Was it closing the bars early and trying clean up the fleshpots as Khun Dan suggests or something else? There must be a reason why, when a thread with Thaksins name in it posts on TV, there will always be a lot of replies with some seemingly frothing on their keyboard as they work furiously to make their hatred known.

Most of the commentary so far consists of gratuitous insults about the writers journalistic ability or a demonstrated inability to comprehend what he has written.

The writer is making more sense the longer this thread continues.

I have no idea why the topic of ear;y bar closures and the like is always used by Thaksin supporting ex-pats as the reason to why other expats have a hatred for Thaksin?

I'll admit to disliking Thaksin, he is one of a bunch of self serving individuals in Thai politics - but probably even more divisive. I just hope for a better future for Thailand, more for the sake of my daughter rather than me, and I don't see the fugitive Thaksin as the answer. Things need to change for sure, and I think the Red Shirt cause is correct in a lot of respects, unfortunatley it is run and funded by people who will just shit on those that support it, once they are able to get their leaders back into power.

[Ulysses G.]

I have no idea why the topic of ear;y bar closures and the like is always used by Thaksin supporting ex-pats as the reason to why other expats have a hatred for Thaksin?

Because it is a way to smear posters who do not agree with them and divert attention from the negative things that he has done.

[vilai]

I agree with the author of this article. Why all the agressive responses? Let's be honest: The only interesting thing abo ut Thailand are the women. Are we all sextourists? No we are not, but maybe we were in the beginning! I am 54 and my lady is 51 and we are already staying together for a little bit more then 10 years. I am not a big "taujou" but the only reason why I like Thailand so much are the beautiful and nice women. And let's be honest: Whe are all here for the women or came here for the women! And there is nothing wrong about that.

When you don't agree than explain to me what makes Thailand more special than any other country. Further: Thaksin is a crook because he wanted to get rid of us, and that's a legitimate reason why I don't like this guy!

Threeweeler Peter.

[Ulysses G.]

Let's be honest: The only interesting thing abo ut Thailand are the women.

I will take the fifth on that one.

[rixalex]

I have a hard time being able to understand how western expats can muster such a visceral hatred of Thaksin. I can certainly arrive at that level of passion for politicians in my own country as their actions have direct impacts to my taxes, pension and other things that directly affect my life whether I am there or in Thailand.. Thaksin?....He's was just another rich, corrupt politician like many before and since. Yet, he seems to have been elevated to almost mythical status among some of the farang here.

What was the real trigger?

I think the trigger was living and working here under his rule and seeing first hand the vision he had for himself. Did you?

He wasn't just another rich, corrupt, politician, like many before and since. That's the thing. He was unique. And he was very dangerous. Why? Well because he mastered the trick of ripping the country off, like no single man has done before, whilst at the same time, remaining popular with a large section of the electorate. Of course i accept that democracy means that popularity trumps all other cards, but the problem was he had so entrenched his position - such as by pushing family and friends to the top of all major positions of power - that true democracy, in which leaders who break the law can be tried and punished, or, heaven forbid, simply questioned, was no longer in existence.

He could have been at the trough for a very long time. Have you seen what happens to 'democracies" where one man or one woman elevates themselves above the entire system? It's not pretty and it's precisely what Thailand was facing. That is why people feel strongly about it.

[denishuahin]

Well i read it, what the <deleted> he's on about i don't know, but being 64 maybe my brain cells can't handle this much. I on my 3rd Chang and sitting with my 24 year old lovely girl of 2 years. Who cares???????

[mrtoad]

I think the trigger was living and working here under his rule and seeing first hand the vision he had for himself. Did you?

He wasn't just another rich, corrupt, politician, like many before and since. That's the thing. He was unique. And he was very dangerous. Why? Well because he mastered the trick of ripping the country off, like no single man has done before, whilst at the same time, remaining popular with a large section of the electorate. Of course i accept that democracy means that popularity trumps all other cards, but the problem was he had so entrenched his position - such as by pushing family and friends to the top of all major positions of power - that true democracy, in which leaders who break the law can be tried and punished, or, heaven forbid, simply questioned, was no longer in existence.

He could have been at the trough for a very long time. Have you seen what happens to 'democracies" where one man or one woman elevates themselves above the entire system? It's not pretty and it's precisely what Thailand was facing. That is why people feel strongly about it.

I have to admit, that the points you make echo my sentiments. His behaviour after the election in 2005, only reinforced how he had started to see himself, and that him and only him knew what was right for Thailand. Thaksin is for democracy, as much as turkeys are for Christmas.