Paypal - Possible Pitfalls And Scams.

[OneeyedJohn]

Looking to hear from anyone with knowledge of using Paypal.

Why ?

Because I have had an account for some years but never used it. That means that any transaction I undertake will be my first. Now like forum and advert type websites approval is normal before they accept your posts or adverts. Can or does such a thing happen with Paypal ?

For instance do Paypal have a rule that a 1st transaction will require a percentage of the funds to stay in Paypal for a certain length of time. It may only amount to 10,000 Baht, but is still enough to attract scammers doing the same trick multiple times ?

For instance is it posssible the other party to the transaction is a longstanding customer of Paypal and that in the case of a dispute his rights would override yours ( being a 1st timer )?

For instance is it posssible that as a 1st time transaction wih Paypal my ability to move the money to a Bank A/C is restricted by certain Paypal regulations that require written authority from whosoever ?

All these things worry me deeply and disturb my sleep patterns.

Please help with constructive input.

And for all those pillocks out there that like to say " Google is your friend " , or email Paypal and ask them , then please stay the hell away from this thread.

[Garry]

I've been using PayPal ( I have a Premier account) for a fews years now and they are very impartial to new or old customers, being, you're only as good as your last transaction. I've put in claims against scammers, won and got my money back, PayPal being very swift to act (4-5 days).

If you send money to an email address, a lot of accounts won't let you send as a 'Gift' (which would mean no interest charged-general charge for a private account is about 3.7% from my experience based on sending funds based on 'good & services'). I use my credit card for all PayPal transactions and my transactions have been to the US, Europe and the UK.

If you have a bank account in the US, then you can credit your account. PayPal will not let you credit your account from a credit card (from my experience), which is understandable. I also like this idea, as my PayPal account always has a balance of zero, unless of course you credit it from a US bank. Better to stick to the credit card.

Link to PayPal fees: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside.

Let me know if you need anymore advice, as probably just answered the tip of the iceberg for you.

Cheers,

Garry

[kandahar]

Hi John.

Wow! You really think about tis stuff, don't you?

I have had two accounts, for two different reasons. Have one now. Never asked all of those questions but just researched the thing, looking for large-scale complaints or signs of a bad deal. Overall, what I read left me feeling pretty confident. So, I signed up, made the first transaction and have never had an issue. It is really pretty much a hassle free way of taking care of money issues for some tasks and purchases.

As Garry said, I don't think a longstanding customer, or even a huge corporate account for that matter, would win in a dispute if they were wrong and you were right. Have never heard of that being an issue.

Not sure about the question about adverts and such. PayPal will verify your card before the transaction goes through but it happens almost instantly. No waiting. And you may be directed to your credit card holder's site for another verification and pass-code to use on the transaction, depending on who your card is from. That may hold up the transaction the first time, for a minimum of 24 hours but you will retain that PIN and use it in the future to avoid this delay if you have to go that route. You could instead choose to get a one-time use PIN from your bank at that point but I would guess you would get a permanent one. Makes sense to me to get the permanent one.

I don't recall anything about money staying in PayPal for any length of time.

I dunno anything about moving my own money around to banks with PayPal. Never tried it. I just always hire the HUGE armored trucks to take my money from bank to bank.

[OneeyedJohn]

Thnks both Kandahar and Garry.

U sound like confident custoners.

I'm only talking bout a deal between 10 and 100 K THB.

[ozzydave]

IF you are the seller (not via Ebay - the closely integrated sister company) you have NO rights apart from objecting if the other party lodges any claims (read the fine print VERY closely). Only those selling via Ebay to a Premier buyer stands a chance in the case of a dispute. This even contravenes the Trade Practices Act.

As a buyer you have more luck, if you are prepared to jump through all of their hoops chasing stuff well hidden on their website and spend a lot of time on the phone (usually on hold).

In short, when it works it is nice. When there is a problem - its YOUR problem. They have little or no interest in addressing the matter without a lot of coercion.

If an act of fraud has been committed, expect no co-operation without taking it through legal channels.

[OneeyedJohn]

thanks ozzydave,

Thats exactly what I expected to hear.

Well to add more meat to the gristle I will tell you what is happening.

I have received emails from some character that claims he wants to buy my bike and is more than happy to pay the 47K I am asking,

His first email provides a link to Paypal which instantly raised a red flag in my little brain.

I strung him along to the point where I said pay me via Western Union.

He is reluctant to do this , lauding the merits of Paypal.

A scam thro and thro and tvm Craigslist.

I can and have traced him, he is in Malaysia and have reported him back to the website.

[Garry]

You could have mentioned your problem straight off the bat..!?

[OneeyedJohn]

You could have mentioned your problem straight off the bat..!?

I'm sorry but I don't see the logic in that thinking.

I don't have a problem , what I have is a scammer that I have easily identified.

Period.

If U don't want to contribute then piss off like I said earlier.

I don't want commentators, I need people who contribute.

Edited May 20, 2011 by OneeyedJohn

[LJW]

I have had a paypal account for the last 8 years. The only problem I have had is that my Thai address can't get anything sent sent to it. It is good for buying software and paying some bills. About 4 years ago, my citibank account along with credit card was closed, but paypal has never caught on... somewhat surprising since I get a few hundred dollars a month deposited to paypal by advertising agencies.

[rmacdon61]

For me, a seller requesting payment thro western union would be a huge red flag, I have had some experience with paypal and have always checked buyer/seller history of purchase. I may have been lucky, but have sold/bought thousands of dollars using paypal with no issues (credit card). I would think if I had a concern, I'd fold my tent and run. You can check paypal history of a buyer/seller for past performance.

Good Luck

[jubby]

I have had a paypal account for the last 8 years. The only problem I have had is that my Thai address can't get anything sent sent to it. It is good for buying software and paying some bills. About 4 years ago, my citibank account along with credit card was closed, but paypal has never caught on... somewhat surprising since I get a few hundred dollars a month deposited to paypal by advertising agencies.

Slightly off-topic, but , If your having problems getting things sent to your Thai address then maybe open a Thai Paypal account as well.

you can still link a foreign credit/debit Card but you'd need another email address ofcourse.

Atleast thats what I do. Its usually only stuff from the States that I have problems with.

[OneeyedJohn]

For me, a seller requesting payment thro western union would be a huge red flag,

Why I don't understand.

He intimated he really really wanted the bike quickly and was willing to cough up the dosh.

Nuffin quicker than a Kwik Fit Fitter.

[kandahar]

I don't get why you don't understand. It is a no-brainer. I agree with rmacdon61. A seller requesting payment through Western Union would be a big red flag. The buyer has no recourse whatsoever with that transaction through Western Union. If I saw an advertisement requesting Western Union Payment, it would be screaming SCAM!! at me. No wonder he is reluctant to do this. He has probably reported YOU back to the website. That would be the correct action to take.

Edited May 22, 2011 by kandahar

[OneeyedJohn]

I don't get why you don't understand. It is a no-brainer. I agree with rmacdon61. A seller requesting payment through Western Union would be a big red flag. The buyer has no recourse whatsoever with that transaction through Western Union. If I saw an advertisement requesting Western Union Payment, it would be screaming SCAM!! at me. No wonder he is reluctant to do this. He has probably reported YOU back to the website. That would be the correct action to take.

Are you totally stupid or what.

I am the vendor.

he is offering to buy and begging for my details - Paypal or Email ( it is disguised by craigslist )

Are you with me...................

I suspect SCAM so I play him along and his insistence on using Paypal made me reluctant to co-operate.

My suggestion to Western Union was only a ploy to see his reaction.

It wasn't good so I told him to F*** off.

Pretty simple, but thanks anyway.

[kandahar]

I don't get why you don't understand. It is a no-brainer. I agree with rmacdon61. A seller requesting payment through Western Union would be a big red flag. The buyer has no recourse whatsoever with that transaction through Western Union. If I saw an advertisement requesting Western Union Payment, it would be screaming SCAM!! at me. No wonder he is reluctant to do this. He has probably reported YOU back to the website. That would be the correct action to take.

Are you totally stupid or what.

I am the vendor.

he is offering to buy and begging for my details - Paypal or Email ( it is disguised by craigslist )

Are you with me...................

I suspect SCAM so I play him along and his insistence on using Paypal made me reluctant to co-operate.

My suggestion to Western Union was only a ploy to see his reaction.

It wasn't good so I told him to F*** off.

Pretty simple, but thanks anyway.

No, I am not stupid. Neither are the 160,000,000 PayPal users. Thats million, not thousands. I use PayPal constantly. I buy stuff from all over the world. I don't have trouble with it.

Yes, your view is simple. And just as back asswards as can be. But have fun with it.

Maybe he is up to something. But you insisting on Western Union payment gives a much stronger appearance of you being up to something. I can't see anyone falling for that. Western Union is for sending money to people you know or sending money to people you have established business ties with. It certainly isn't for sending money to strangers on the promise that they will send you a product in return. That is laughable and that is why PayPal is so popular. I can just see that guy's face when he read that line from you.

What's the problem with the e-mail thing? So, he wants an email address which will make communication much quicker than the PM functions on most of those seller sites. Disposable, non-traceable email addresses are available free from most of the e-mail providers out there. You can communicate with him all you want, be the detective you want to be and then never look at the account again.

Pay-Pal can and will verify his shipping address, finding out if he has collected product there before and if it is legit. Western Union will only verify that you signed for his money under the name he sent it to and that is all. If you don't send him the product, W.U. is going to say to his complaint "So what? We transferred the money like you paid us to do. End of story".

If he pays his Pay Pal purchase with a credit card, he has some protections from you cheating him. If he pays through PayPal with cash from the bank, he has no protection. He might as well have sent the money Western Union if he pays from his bank.

I have never heard of anyone offering something for sale and then freaking out when someone wanted their Pay Pal info so they could pay for the item. That tickles me.

As the seller in this thing, you have more protection on Pay Pal than he has as a buyer.

You initially asked for advice about PayPal and as soon as you got a critical reply, you jumped on that as if it were something to behold. It isn't. There ARE people critical of PayPal and there is at least one website devoted to criticism of PayPal. That site is described as being based on "hostility" and "entertainment value" of web forum postings. Yes, there are some PayPal haters. They are insignificant compared to the numbers of satisfied users. They are vocal. But they don't hold sway outside of their own little group. There are people critical of EVERYTHING. Was it a surprise to you that someone weighed in with a bad report?

You as the seller have the upper hand here. Unless he is asking for credit card information and such, you have no worries.

So, was this just a thread for you to show how paranoid you are or did you really expect to gain some helpful information from this? So far, the thing makes no sense at all to a logical mind.

Again, it just cracks me up to think of me selling something and a buyer asking for my PayPal info and then me freaking out about it. That is a good one. Good grief! That is funny.

Edited May 22, 2011 by kandahar

[OneeyedJohn]

You ( kandihar) like to mouth off a wee bit wivout really knowing what is going on don't ya ?

Sure I asked for help with regard to Paypal and got helpful replies.

BUT what you don't know is how this potential buyer responded when I suggested that perhaps Paypal wasn't the best method of finalising our transaction.

So all your long winded nonsense above is irrelevamt.

Don't preach to the converted .

[kandahar]

Yes, your view is simple. And just as back asswards as can be. But have fun with it.

[rmacdon61]

I don't get why you don't understand. It is a no-brainer. I agree with rmacdon61. A seller requesting payment through Western Union would be a big red flag. The buyer has no recourse whatsoever with that transaction through Western Union. If I saw an advertisement requesting Western Union Payment, it would be screaming SCAM!! at me. No wonder he is reluctant to do this. He has probably reported YOU back to the website. That would be the correct action to take.

Are you totally stupid or what.

I am the vendor.

he is offering to buy and begging for my details - Paypal or Email ( it is disguised by craigslist )

Are you with me...................

I suspect SCAM so I play him along and his insistence on using Paypal made me reluctant to co-operate.

I can only assume as you noted in post, your lack of paypal knowledge has led you to assume scam and your request for western union has given the buyer a RED flag for a scam. Seems to me you are as noted, stressing out and responding with knee jerk responces. Please consider hiring a broker, this is trouble free and idiot proof, something you seem to need.

When you respond to a buyers questions on graigs, your email is shown to the buyer, best you check that. Paypal exists today, because of scams, not to allow scams. They pride themselves on this, as long as you use common sense.

My suggestion to Western Union was only a ploy to see his reaction.

It wasn't good so I told him to F*** off.

Pretty simple, but thanks anyway.

[rmacdon61]

I can only assume as you noted in post, your lack of paypal knowledge has led you to assume scam and your request for western union has given the buyer a RED flag for a scam. Seems to me you are as noted, stressing out and responding with knee jerk responces. Please consider hiring a broker, this is trouble free and idiot proof, something you seem to need.

When you respond to a buyers questions on graigs, your email is shown to the buyer, best you check that. Paypal exists today, because of scams, not to allow scams. They pride themselves on this, as long as you use common sense.

[Paul888]

You ( kandihar) like to mouth off a wee bit wivout really knowing what is going on don't ya ?

Sure I asked for help with regard to Paypal and got helpful replies.

BUT what you don't know is how this potential buyer responded when I suggested that perhaps Paypal wasn't the best method of finalising our transaction.

So all your long winded nonsense above is irrelevamt.

Don't preach to the converted .

Sorry mate but I think Kandahar's summary was pretty spot on.

When you offer something for sale, you should always have a stated mechanism for people to pay you. The simplest of these online is paypal, or the less widely used but safer moneybookers.

I have been paypal verified for about 12 years and now have both a home country and a Thailand paypal account (which incidentally once verified is no different in terms of operation and what you can and can't do).

With so many millions of users, they of course also have scammers using it, but scammers exist everywhere, not just online, so you should always be cautious in dealing with people you don't know.

[metisdead]

A post discussing moderation has been removed. Perusing this thread, I see no previous deletions of any posts.