Tips On How To Compact A Rai

[haveaniceday]

About to raise a Rai by a couple of meters.

Non of the fill suppliers will compact it, they all say they don't have access to a compactor.

To me this is totally retarded, to be expected to wait a couple of rain seasons because the land fill companies are incompetent.

Someone mentioned renting a tractor driving around on it as it is dumped, as well as the one with the spade on the front. Another suggestion was to rent a Makro digger on tracks, but I thought the tracks would not compact very well and at 800b an hour, well, sounds like a silly solution, but TIT.

Any other constructive idea's ?

[transam]

Think most rely on rainfall. Supposed to leave for 3 years to let the water do the work if your going to build on it.

[tassini]

To do this properly you should use a single drum vibrating roller with a minimum weight of 20 tons. Fill should be spread at layers of 500mm, well watered and compacted by 10-15 passes of the roller. Ideally for landfill we would use a roller of 50-60 tons. Renting a tractor and driving it around will only succeed in the compaction of the top portion of your fill. I have never seen anybody in Thailand do this kind of work properly.........................

If you want or intend to build on this land immediately you should consider constructing your foundations at the existing ground level and then progressing your land fill afterwards. No doubt some smart ass will tell you differently based upon what they have seen the locals do here, but as I said earlier have never seen this knd of work executed professionally here in Thailand. The alternative is to leave the fill to settle over a period of a couple of years and allow it to compact, which is fine if you have the time to wait. Most people here go with the tractor method for the fill and then dig the foundations, probably most have little or no future issues with settlement etc, but it is not the correct engineering solution.

Tas

[transam]

To do this properly you should use a single drum vibrating roller with a minimum weight of 20 tons. Fill should be spread at layers of 500mm, well watered and compacted by 10-15 passes of the roller. Ideally for landfill we would use a roller of 50-60 tons. Renting a tractor and driving it around will only succeed in the compaction of the top portion of your fill. I have never seen anybody in Thailand do this kind of work properly.........................

If you want or intend to build on this land immediately you should consider constructing your foundations at the existing ground level and then progressing your land fill afterwards. No doubt some smart ass will tell you differently based upon what they have seen the locals do here, but as I said earlier have never seen this knd of work executed professionally here in Thailand. The alternative is to leave the fill to settle over a period of a couple of years and allow it to compact, which is fine if you have the time to wait. Most people here go with the tractor method for the fill and then dig the foundations, probably most have little or no future issues with settlement etc, but it is not the correct engineering solution.

Tas

+1

[seanog]

Agree with above answer. I have constructed many Villas and the proper method is do your piling on the existing ground and backfill for gardens later.

[PattayaParent]

Is there a road construction company nearby you?

They will be able to grade and compact the fill properly.

[gregb]

A little bit small, but better than nothing. If you do the fill 50 cm at a time it should work acceptably.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/138884-rolling-compactor-project.html

Just need to visit some junkyards and find an old tank and a Thai who can weld...

[trogers]

About to raise a Rai by a couple of meters.

Seems from the height of the fill, existing ground is in a rice field?

Proper compacting will only solve settlement of loose earth fill. There will still be long term settlement of the existing ground due to the surcharge load of your compacted loose fill. Example of villa construction may not apply as most villas are located on sandy/clay soil located near to the sea.

To avoid the issue on compacting, imagine you lay a 60cm thick concrete slab on to your existing ground, and then see how it cracks up due to differing settlement.

Edited May 26, 2011 by trogers

[rgs2001uk]

Wonder if the OP has priced up the cost to raise a rai by 2 metres.

Thats at least 3,200 cubic metres of soil (assuming my maths are correct).

What type of land does he have surrounding his land, a wall to be built round the perimeter of his rai.

Has he priced up the cost of a 1,600 metre wall?

[canopy]

Lol Gregb, there is no way that contraption is going to properly compact 50cm at a time. Transam knows how to do it right and it is a nice to have informed people around and I second his advice if you want a stable base. One other thing is you don't want any topsoil or soil with grass, roots, leaves, or organic matter in it.

[haveaniceday]

Q?, single drum vibrating roller, is this like the ones you see in road construction or is towed like in the pic of the baby one? Can't imagine it being towed, but just asking.

Q?. The fill supplier, last 'hole' was almost rock free, he is currently cutting away the side of a hill, it has many rock 2x2 feet in it, this will be crap near the surface, as it will give us a rocky lawn, but will it be better for fill with the 3m deep pond?

Thanks for the replies, re fence the rendered block 10 foot high, it is only going around 3 Yarn that your house and pool will be on. The rest will be "fenced" as a marker fence from cheap wood, no security application.

The fill, big issue is a 3 yarn plus 3m deep hole, that was once a turtle farm. we orignally wanted to keep 400m of it, but it is all going to be filled to displace the water and do a better compaction. (apparently) We can not, seem to get our hands on a compactor. Still looking though. one lead following up that is the most hopeful. The fill guy reakeons the best he can do is use the dump trucks to drive over, I think this is very micky mouse though. I will be demanding it is spread though then driven over, maybe a bit hard with the pond though.

The other 3 Rai, will be leveled (some on a slight slope to help drainage from our house. The Plan is to then drill down into the old land for some support for the house, and keep it one level to help avoid serous construction issues later, We do not intend on building as houses on where the big pond is for a long time, except maybe a BBQ area and over nighter cabin for Farlang inlaws & friends. (No mother in law, as she will never leave !!)

There is scrub all over it, it is being all cleared at the moment to be piled and burnt.

In one corner, there are some trees, about 20 trees with 20cm diameter trunks, no sure if going to build there, but if we do, how important is it to get the roots dug out as well? Thinking when they die and root away of the land filling in.

Thanks for the idea's.

Edited May 28, 2011 by haveaniceday

[tassini]

<I>Sorry for the double post (now edited), I may be a good Engineer.............................but I'm sh!t at posting stuff.<BR><BR>Tas</I>

Edited May 28, 2011 by tassini

[tassini]

Yes the roller is the type you typically see being used in the construction of roads / highways. The lovely little roller in the picture will be as much use as a chocolate fire guard..................another poster has pointed out the very large quantity of material required for this fill (3200 M3), don't forget that each load contains around 30% 'air' so actual delivered material required will be larger. When you are raising the level of the land by 2m it is of more importance to get the compaction right, otherwise you will be leaving large pockets, settlement will continue for many years and could mean real trouble. If it were my project I would carry out a soil compaction test at each 500mm layer for some sort of insurance.........................but then that's me being an engineer!

Tas

[haveaniceday]

Thanks Tassini,

It frustrates me, I know you are correct. In every way. And yet I have to settle for second best or by western standards 5th best. There are only 3 companies around here that fill. One blatantly abused us for suggesting that we wanted it compacted and he was the expert, how dare we question him. He was also by far the most expensive by a long way, I have seen his fills and they are not pretty after even a single thunder storm with big gapping splits in the land !!!!

The other two compact Thai style, the guy doing job is happy to have another companies roller on the site if we can get one, he claims his friends are all busy and their rollers are inter province. Reckons the best he can do is use a full truck to do extra trips driving over it prior to dumping and agreed the suggestion of 50cm max depth. Reckons that the Macrko (it is a big one) is crap at compacting, which is no surprise, there is a lot of surface area on those tracks.

It is frustrating as I know better, just trying to do the best I can.

Interesting about the 30% comment, thx, this guy advised, that even with "truck compacting" that one the pond it will settle 10cm for every meter filled. I am actually happy to have a big pond, it just in a really bad position, and all Thai advise has been, do not fill half (actually two thirds of it), all have said to fill the lot, displace all the water, let it settle for a couple of month of wet season then dig out a yarn again later and spread it on pre a designated area that is to be raised a bit.

I ask here, why cant they build a wall with a high % rock and them back fill it? We are only taking 3m deep, max 4.

Wonder if the OP has priced up the cost to raise a rai by 2 metres.

Thats at least 3,200 cubic metres of soil (assuming my maths are correct).

Yes, math is done and costed, except I didn't factor in 30% air as mentioned here, I am expecting 1300 truck loads. That should do it. I am actually bringing 6500 cubic meters, hence trying to get tips here. Some folks here really know their stuff.

[PattayaParent]

Regarding the "Macrko (it is a big one) is crap at compacting, which is no surprise, there is a lot of surface area on those tracks." surface area is what you want for compacting, although the tracked machine is not good it's much better than a dump truck with narrow wheels.

There's no road construction companies in your area that could do a proper job?