PMNL Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) I have no sympathy to be honest. A lot of us know about the book that basically trashes the royal family here. It's not a particularly well written or well researched book. This guy obviously sees himself as some sort of activist, why else would he be sitting up there in Isaan on using his blog to encourage people to read this trash? Now he's an activist, he can experience jail time like many other activists around the world. Pity he didn't take up a worthy cause, isn't it? Well said. I do believe there are many thais and farangs are misled with all this books regarding HM the King. Many of them express their mis-informed mind to pubic forum, deserve the punishment. Edited May 27, 2011 by Scott quote edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxed Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I feel for the American .. assuming this story is true. I assume if it is the actual facts will come out and it will make headlines in the US if he is actually an American citizen and being held with no bail for what amounts to a banned internet link that wouldn't even work in Thailand since it is banned. However, this is Thailand. People are idiots if they visit another country and expect the the laws are the same as their own country or that they will be excused from obeying the laws because they are not the same as their homeland. The US has a very well known saying in court, "Ignorance of the law is NO excuse". But even if you visit Thailand and are unaware of the seriousness of this well known law then you deserve what you get. I for one have no issue with the law in question. His Majesty is a father figure to so many Thais and has been for so long that some Thais have have died of old age never knowing another King let alone anyone with such devotion and love for all Thai people and The Kingdom of Thailand. Although His Majesty has publicly stated he is not above criticism and regularly pardons those convicted of these types of crimes, it is a law I understand and respect Thais for embracing and enforcing when appropriate. But yes, Thailand needs to reevaluate some of its censorship laws in my opinion but not when it comes to this issue. How awfully sad if one day it became like England has become were the Queen and her family serve as tabloid fodder and late night spoofs overshadowing any news of what they give to their country. In fact, in England, I'm not even sure they (England's Royals) are able to do much now except to try and protect the royal image from all the gossip, paparazzi and unethical reporters. Did anybody READ the story? The story says he is a Thai. Sure he has gained American nationality, but it's not like we are talking about an American expat or tourist here: "Joe is a 54 year old resident of Nakhon Ratchasima Province. He is Thai by birth but has lived in Colarado, America for 30 years." Anyway, if you are running a forum you really need to watch it closely and moderate when needed. ditto...your comments. He is a Thai who happened to get his us citizenship. A far cry from someone born and raised in usa who is named Joe Smith1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It would be preferred that direct references to members of the Royal family be left out of the discussion. The LM law is quite broad and includes all members of the Royal family, living and dead. It has much to do with the institution, not just the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Why is the monarchy of Thailand an extremely sensitive subject? Not an easy to question to answer because you truly have to understand Thai Culture and history as opposed to only being able to thinking of western culture. Consider that every Thai constitution (more than 15) for the last 80-years (since Thailand became a constitutional based government as opposed to an absolute monarchy) has included the Lese Majeste law. Consider further that His Majesty the King has served this country for about 65-years and is loved and held in extreme high self-esteem (something most westerners cannot comprehend outside relatives) and in fact is considered by many Thais to be their father and more. An example would be that Father's Day in Thailand is actually held on the King's Birthday. His Majesty is above politics, accusations or civil/criminal actions (a position most all westerners would abuse) and is held in deep respect and worship by the vast majority of Thais and the love they feel is greater than many feel about their own father. It is actually considered, by most Thais, anit-Thai to not feel such reverence. The law basically addresses threatens, insults and defamation but it is sadly often interpreted as much more especially by politicians who wish to show their opponents in bad light by making Lese Majeste accusations. Sadly this makes up the majority of cases brought to court because there really is nothing more disloyal and anit-Thai you can say about a politician beyond accusing them of being against The King in any way shape or form. The law itself only seems to upset a small percentage of foreigners and it reminds me of people who want to burn The Koran or make unflattering images of Mohamed just to get a reaction because Muslim law says you shouldn't do this. The same is true about burning the American flag, which only somewhat recently (I believe) the supreme court said can no longer be deemed illegal ... but other countries have laws about burning or desecrating the national flag including a countries like Denmark and France. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with holding certain things in the highest of esteem and as a sort of symbol of National pride that shouldn't ever be disrespected. For those who cannot accept such laws or beliefs, I believe, they are the ones with the issue and they should put their stance where their mouth is and go to an Islamic country and burn the Koran or go to a foreign country and burn the national flag or in the case of Thailand to come here and show any public disrespect for His Majesty. Consider too that Thais have no problem talking and speculating privately about such topics and I've never heard of a case of anybody being prosecuted for doing so. It is those who make a public display that are prosecuted. There is no doubt in my mind in the future the law will be lightened and eventually gone but at the present time I believe it is worth keeping and is good for Thailand. Although things may change in the future, Thais have no issue with holding His Majesty in this kind of high regard or having laws to prevent people from showing disrespect towards The Royal Family. Some Farangs believe the law is wrong and they are entitled to their opinion but the sooner they accept this is not their country and they have no (as should be) say in its constitution or Thai Culture the sooner they will stop their everlasting complaining. If they really believe they are better than Thai people or feel this law is effecting their lives then they may want to take a look in the mirror to see the real problem. As for me I have no problem with the law especially since it limits foreigners from coming here and showing disrespect for yet another aspect of Thailand that is considered a sacred institutions in Thai Society. But I do understand the thought that all speech should be free but in reality it is not in just about anywhere in the world. Even the US one needs to pick their words carefully if not to be prosecuted criminally or face civil action. Thailand "may' have one of the strongest Lese Majeste laws but somebody has got to have the toughest one and it is not like any other country has a king that has served its country as long as Thailand. IMO, there are too many real issues in Thailand, as with most developing nations, where human rights can be improved and it is just silly to pretend this is some kind of Human Rights issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ib1b4 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 The book in question is actually quite well written and is a very interesting read, whether or not one agrees with the content in total. It is, of course, legal to buy and read abroad. More than a few copies (as claimed) have been sold worldwide! Just don't try to bring a copy here or discuss its contents. It has sold very well. Two different books are being discussed in this thread. One sold a few copies and was written by an Australian. The book mentioned in the OP was by an American and sold 250,000 copies (so-so sales when compared to top books). Thank you Buchholz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayinoz Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Many huge forums put on legal disclaimers that leave it to the individual to defend if he\she has done anything wrong. Eg. Is stockbroking forums- insider trade information is discussed- the individuals involved are in trouble if the forum protected, not the forum.<br><br>If this was the case then Facebook, twitter, etc could be sued all over the place. Up to the individual poster, court rulings have determined this. It not a matter of getting in trouble if you the owner of forums or blogs or none of us would run or own them- as the legal hassles would be far too much. They are enough as is...so you cover yourself legally then simply point people in direction of your legal disclaimer that not your thoughts, opinions and this is simply a medium for communication. This guy obviously directly made out of place statements and advertised the wrong product + the wrong people were annoyed with him.<br><br>I suspect the man ran and posted his own feelings that broke the Law of Thailand. If this the case then he must face justice. We do not make the laws of this land, most get off with a Royal Pardon anyway, these days.... More often than not I see only those who have peed off a government officials or police or a Mia Noi of one of them LOL- that get into trouble in this part of the world. But that my own point of view. As you see raids or places getting closed down- normally they have simply annoyed the wrong people in this world. He annoyed the wrong people IMO. <br><br>Cheers Jay<br><br><br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Just read on Reuters that the person is a US Citizen and they say he translated an offensive article and posted it on his blog. No mention of a link. I'm sure more details and corrections will come out in the coming days and weeks. It seems to already be making the rounds in the Global News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Many huge forums put on legal disclaimers that leave it to the individual to defend if he\she has done anything wrong. Eg. Is stockbroking forums- insider trade information is discussed- the individuals involved are in trouble if the forum protected, not the forum.<br><br>If this was the case then Facebook, twitter, etc could be sued all over the place. Up to the individual poster, court rulings have determined this. It not a matter of getting in trouble if you the owner of forums or blogs or none of us would run or own them- as the legal hassles would be far too much. They are enough as is...so you cover yourself legally then simply point people in direction of your legal disclaimer that not your thoughts, opinions and this is simply a medium for communication. This guy obviously directly made out of place statements and advertised the wrong product + the wrong people were annoyed with him.<br><br>I suspect the man ran and posted his own feelings that broke the Law of Thailand. If this the case then he must face justice. We do not make the laws of this land, most get off with a Royal Pardon anyway, these days.... More often than not I see only those who have peed off a government officials or police or a Mia Noi of one of them LOL- that get into trouble in this part of the world. But that my own point of view. As you see raids or places getting closed down- normally they have simply annoyed the wrong people in this world. He annoyed the wrong people IMO. <br><br>Cheers Jay<br><br><br> The host is actually responsible for the content on their site. TV cannot allow people to post child porn and claim they are not responsible because a user posted it. I can go on and on with examples but just consider Napster and how they didn't even host any files and didn't encourage anyone to break the law but simply provided a way for people to share files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blabla1 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Tittle should have been,Thai born, American citizen, but i guess that's not sensational enough to get our blood pumping... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monekyface Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 it took 4 years to arrest him. seems curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMX Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 "Lese majesty" laws by the familiarity to us of the language of the expression, demonstrate that such laws existed elsewhere earlier in history, probably ours. In Europe, the laws ceased being enforced as freedoms (such as that of speech and the press) grew over time, but they were enforced for centuries - nothing new. Our comprehension of a nation's requirements for stability and cohesion, that is, have evolved over time. Many of us are impatient for certain quick changes, but only because they will adhere to our own suppositions of how our own nations are superior - nations we've left to come here and whose long developments were often similar. Here in this nation's history just now, everyone knows not to step on toes. So it goes, mai pen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venturalaw Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I am a Royalist for the British Royal Family but still used to like Spitting Image taking the mickey out of the the Queen and Prince Feelleep. You can laugh with someone but not mean any harm, some laws are just too tough. Then don't live here. It's really very simple. If you don't wish to follow the laws, leave. That goes for anywhere one is a visitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Walter M. Braunohler, the U.S. Embassy spokesman in Bangkok , identified the man as Joe Gordon. A court official, who declined to be named because she is not authorized to speak to the media, gave the man's Thai name as Lerpong Wichaikhammat. -- (c) Associated Press 2011-05-27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 hmmmm Id say this situation is not just 'the farang bashing the monarchy' This guy was actually born in thailand - and probably has some deep feelings and knows a lot more than most of us farangs do about thailands cultural ways and impotences... If it was just a farang then so be it... But this is a Thai who lived in thailand for half of his life, before leaving to live in the USA - and more than likely expanding his understanding of the world and realized when he came back home... that maybe thailand still is in the dark ages of dictatorship and censorship... Ofcourse... if tabloids in thailand has the right to say anything they wanted about the monarchy... i think it would be a dissaster as it was in the UK once upon a time... I dont think the LS should apply to the general public to have or speak opinions about whatever they want... I do think it should apply to the MEDIA and tabloids and they can ruin lives just for a story, and are the dirtiest players of all. As this guy did use a public blog... he is basically the media... so... hmmmm Id say he stepped the line... "assuming" he actually wrote something negative with negative intentions then I would not hold up the fact he was born in Thailand to any great degree. I believe he is 52 and spent the last 30-years in the US. Not only is that not half his life but if we consider 18 years old an adult we can say he spent 4-years of his adult life living in Thailand. I think many (most?) expats on this forum have him beat. But who knows how much of the last 30-years he came back to Thailand .. you may be right but I'm just pointing out it is a big assumption to believe he knows much more about current Thai Culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimky Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It shows why we allow discussion of the LM laws, but not a discussion of the Royal Family itself. Keep that in mind when posting. We are all guests in this country. We must respect the rules and laws of the host country whether we agree or not. It is better to be safe and free than to be sorry and in jail... unless one enjoys fish head soup 2 times a day, every day. :jap: Safe and free? You define freedom in much the same way as many of our beloved African despots... none incarceration=freedom Respect the rules and laws?? So, I guess we never go to topless bars or ever pay for a little sexual favour or two, right?? Because, we are visitors here, and it is against the law to participate in all that stuff... right? It was a link to a book, let's keep some perspective here. Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landofthefree Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 The name of the country is supposed to translate as the “land of the free”. However, it is only free up to an extent. "The land of the free". Freedom to burn trash, throw plastic garbage, play 150 db music, endanger everybody's lives with dangerous driving, anytime and anyplace, but, alas, no freedom of speech. I'm free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EODghost Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Typical backward Thai thinking at its best, silence the masses, sooner or later this place needs to fall into line with the rest of the world and the 21st century i wonder how long its going to take? Cant wait for the nuclear power stations they seem real popular now too! Welcome back to the dark ages, Brother. Thailand is "The Land of Not Quite Right" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizen33 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Not an easy to question to answer because you truly have to understand Thai Culture and history as opposed to only being able to thinking of western culture. There was certainly a time when a public discourse about history was conducted with little fear, when for example, scholars reflected on the events of the 1930s and 40s and argued about whether writers like Kukrit and Seni Pramoj had reinvented a past that never quite existed. But who would discuss those questions in the present climate? Edited May 27, 2011 by citizen33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krangeek Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) It shows why we allow discussion of the LM laws, but not a discussion of the Royal Family itself. Keep that in mind when posting. We are all guests in this country. We must respect the rules and laws of the host country whether we agree or not. It is better to be safe and free than to be sorry and in jail... unless one enjoys fish head soup 2 times a day, every day. :jap: I have lived here for 15 years and I believe I am not alone in getting sick and tired of being referred to as a 'guest' in this country. In MY country, all foreigners are not to be called 'foreigners' (racist) and not all, but a large proportion have access to welfare benefits and free housing. Not so here where everyone is, quite literally, on the take. Please <deleted>. Edited May 27, 2011 by krangeek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayHaas Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Back "home" Free of charge! Fantastic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieovaseas Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 ... I for one have no issue with the law in question. His Majesty is a father figure to so many Thais and has been for so long that some Thais have have died of old age never knowing another King let alone anyone with such devotion and love for all Thai people and The Kingdom of Thailand. Although His Majesty has publicly stated he is not above criticism and regularly pardons those convicted of these types of crimes, it is a law I understand and respect Thais for embracing and enforcing when appropriate. But yes, Thailand needs to reevaluate some of its censorship laws in my opinion but not when it comes to this issue. How awfully sad if one day it became like England has become were the Queen and her family serve as tabloid fodder and late night spoofs overshadowing any news of what they give to their country. In fact, in England, I'm not even sure they (England's Royals) are able to do much now except to try and protect the royal image from all the gossip, paparazzi and unethical reporters. What would you say if the US brought in a law that you couldn't say anything bad about the president (whoever he happened to be)? The problem with the law is how it is applied. Even writing a work of fiction talking about an imaginary prince is enough to put you in jail. Having respect is one thing. Not being able to discuss the issues is completely different. After whats happened to this bloke, I would not even want to discuss not being able to discuss the issues, if you know what i mean Seriously though, id think most sane people in LOS would be somewhat guarded in words and actions. You'd have to be a right blo0dy plonker to put anything like that out into the public domain with your name on it...som num na i reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader79 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) ... A lot of us know about the book that basically trashes the royal family here. It's not a particularly well written or well researched book. ... In that regard, it's a bit like Private Dancer or even The Da Vinci Code... Still, I am dusting off my copy for a refreshing re-read on the patio this evening. Read fast, Guy Montag is on his way! Edited May 27, 2011 by crusader79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krangeek Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I am a Royalist for the British Royal Family but still used to like Spitting Image taking the mickey out of the the Queen and Prince Feelleep. You can laugh with someone but not mean any harm, some laws are just too tough. Then don't live here. It's really very simple. If you don't wish to follow the laws, leave. That goes for anywhere one is a visitor. I personally don't give a flying one about this topic, but do NOT call me a bloody 'visitor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrustyJuggler66 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 This part of the world will always demand respect when earning it is beyond reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Lets stay on the topic, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieovaseas Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I am a Royalist for the British Royal Family but still used to like Spitting Image taking the mickey out of the the Queen and Prince Feelleep. You can laugh with someone but not mean any harm, some laws are just too tough. Then don't live here. It's really very simple. If you don't wish to follow the laws, leave. That goes for anywhere one is a visitor. I personally don't give a flying one about this topic, but do NOT call me a bloody 'visitor! Better to be considered a 'visitor' than a 'patient' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venturalaw Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I am a Royalist for the British Royal Family but still used to like Spitting Image taking the mickey out of the the Queen and Prince Feelleep. You can laugh with someone but not mean any harm, some laws are just too tough. Then don't live here. It's really very simple. If you don't wish to follow the laws, leave. That goes for anywhere one is a visitor. I personally don't give a flying one about this topic, but do NOT call me a bloody 'visitor! If you don't "give a flying one about this topic", then why read it and post? I have lived here for 15 years and I believe I am not alone in getting sick and tired of being referred to as a 'guest' in this country. In MY country, all foreigners are not to be called 'foreigners' (racist) and not all, but a large proportion have access to welfare benefits and free housing. Not so here where everyone is, quite literally, on the take. Please <deleted>. You refer to your country ("My country") and state that you've lived here 15 years. I take it that Thailand is not 'your country'. You also believe that referring to one as a foreigner is being racist. How would you refer to one who is not originally from the country in which they reside? When you say that "everyone is, quite literally, on the take" are you including yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacovl46 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 He is Thai by birth but has lived in Colarado, America for 30 years. (He is, it say, an American citizen.) It is weird that it took 4 years for them to arrest this guy? Someone had to have gone to the police to swear out a lese majeste charge, I wonder who did that? And when? I suspect he'll get a Royal Pardon, if it goes that far. he's been living in the states and this was the first time he came back to thailand since the alleged LM took place. so they took the first chance to get him when he came to thailand to receive medical services. it's all in the article, man!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I am a Royalist for the British Royal Family but still used to like Spitting Image taking the mickey out of the the Queen and Prince Feelleep. You can laugh with someone but not mean any harm, some laws are just too tough. Then don't live here. It's really very simple. If you don't wish to follow the laws, leave. That goes for anywhere one is a visitor. I personally don't give a flying one about this topic, but do NOT call me a bloody 'visitor! NO. Just visitor would have been good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljordan Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Can you imagine someone being thrown in jail for calling the president names or accusing him of crimes? NO This place is so so 14th century dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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