Gay Activists Call For Same-Sex Marriage Law In Thailand

[samurai]

The activists have a quite interesting approach on what "third sex" could actually mean or means for them. Or is it just the article who mixed it all up?

OMG, really, why focus on that part of this story? Equal marriage rights means ANY two adults who choose to enter into marriage with their free will may do so in Thailand. Now it is only hetero pairs. Sexual minorities want and DESERVE completely equal treatment under the law in ALL nations.

Why ignoring what "third sex" means to them? You might also want to ask what "gay" actually means to them.

It could be different from your definition.

Rights activists for the so-called "third sex" - gays, lesbians and transsexuals - have urged political parties to allow a same-sex marriage law.

Natee, president of the Gay Political Group of Thailand, claims that 10 per cent or around four million voters were "third sex". In this figure he probably includes transgender/transsexuals(commonly referred to as third sex) and homosexuals.

For the transsexual Jim Sarah seems to be it not about to become legally recognized as woman, which would give her the right to marry a male partner.

Jim Sarah suggest same-sex marriage laws as solution for transsexuals to have a relationship where the partners have the same legal rights as a married heterosexual couple.

Is it about SAME-sex marriage, Mr.& Mr.? That is the part you want to hear. Or is it about a husband & wife marriages where a transsexual/transgender can marry the opposite gender? Or a "third sex" can marry the same sex?

With that proposal you or your partner might end up as Mrs.

Edited May 31, 2011 by samurai

[Jingthing]

The OP is clear what it is about. This third sex manufactured controversy is just a diversion.

Rights activists for the so-called "third sex" - gays, lesbians and transsexuals - have urged political parties to allow a same-sex marriage law.

[bangkockney]

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms.

Which rather rubbishes your argument of going against nature.

The irony of this is that if they were to make equal partners with equal rights in a gay marriage, this would probably mean that gay people would have stronger marriage rights than women.

Why not create a 4 th gender ? And then a 5 th ? OK 2 people same sex would live under a CONTRACT, from a government legal draft.

Don't call it a "marriage", nor a "wedding " please. There are reasons, and duties in marriage that cannot be met by "same sex".

There must be a limit as to bent the laws of Nature.

See the results in other fields, to swim against the laws of Nature.

If you are not attracted by the other sex, TO PROCREATE, which is the LAW of NATURE, you are suffering psycho disorders, like it or not. Certainly funny to have group masturbation when you are a pre-teen. The world is not to be put under control of pre-teens, indeed...

Good to be tolerant. Not that good to be SILLY... :jap:

[Thai at Heart]

The irony of this is that if they were to make equal partners with equal rights in a gay marriage, this would probably mean that gay people would have stronger marriage rights than women.

Please qualify your statement with something more reliable than "probable." There is so much misinformation pronounced in this area that we don't need any more. If you can't back up feelings and hunches with anything substantial, please don't say anything. Just how would same sex marriage give gay people more rights than women? Ridiculous!

Women have just as much rights in marriage as men and more. They have the right to 50% of everything owned and if they divorce they get to keep the kids so in fact they have more rights and that's reliable and not "probable" information.

The most obvious one is that men are classed as the head of the house, so when land is purchased, the husband's name is the one placed on title.

[elektrified]

Are there really 4 million khatoey's in Thailand? Sounds like a gross exaggeration to me.

There is no such thing as 3rd sex.

[Jingthing]

Are there really 4 million khatoey's in Thailand? Sounds like a gross exaggeration to me.

There is no such thing as 3rd sex.

This is about all sexual minorities. Read the OP. Please, again, don't get hung up on the third sex thing. It's about equal marriage rights for couples who aren't standard male/female. That includes a lot of options. Most effected will be homosexual men, same sex male to male couples.

[samurai]

The irony of this is that if they were to make equal partners with equal rights in a gay marriage, this would probably mean that gay people would have stronger marriage rights than women.

Please qualify your statement with something more reliable than "probable." There is so much misinformation pronounced in this area that we don't need any more. If you can't back up feelings and hunches with anything substantial, please don't say anything. Just how would same sex marriage give gay people more rights than women? Ridiculous!

Women have just as much rights in marriage as men and more. They have the right to 50% of everything owned and if they divorce they get to keep the kids so in fact they have more rights and that's reliable and not "probable" information.

For foreigners can it make a difference if they are married to a Thai man or a Thai woman.

[anotheruser]

Are there really 4 million khatoey's in Thailand? Sounds like a gross exaggeration to me.

There is no such thing as 3rd sex.

Tell the Buddhists that because the term "third sex" is directly from those teachings.

[Jingthing]

The irony of this is that if they were to make equal partners with equal rights in a gay marriage, this would probably mean that gay people would have stronger marriage rights than women.

Why not create a 4 th gender ? And then a 5 th ? OK 2 people same sex would live under a CONTRACT, from a government legal draft.

Don't call it a "marriage", nor a "wedding " please. There are reasons, and duties in marriage that cannot be met by "same sex".

There must be a limit as to bent the laws of Nature.

See the results in other fields, to swim against the laws of Nature.

If you are not attracted by the other sex, TO PROCREATE, which is the LAW of NATURE, you are suffering psycho disorders, like it or not. Certainly funny to have group masturbation when you are a pre-teen. The world is not to be put under control of pre-teens, indeed...

Good to be tolerant. Not that good to be SILLY... :jap:

There are many wonderful books about the topic of homosexuality. If you actually believe that immature circle jerks are representative of the richness of gay love and sex, PM for title suggestions if you have a serious interest in correcting your knowledge gaps.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jirapa]

The irony of this is that if they were to make equal partners with equal rights in a gay marriage, this would probably mean that gay people would have stronger marriage rights than women.

Please qualify your statement with something more reliable than "probable." There is so much misinformation pronounced in this area that we don't need any more. If you can't back up feelings and hunches with anything substantial, please don't say anything. Just how would same sex marriage give gay people more rights than women? Ridiculous!

Women have just as much rights in marriage as men and more. They have the right to 50% of everything owned and if they divorce they get to keep the kids so in fact they have more rights and that's reliable and not "probable" information.

The most obvious one is that men are classed as the head of the house, so when land is purchased, the husband's name is the one placed on title.

If they're both Thai they can put the husband or wifes name on the paper and if it was being paid for with her money she'd probably want her name on it. Regardless of any nit picking anything bought in marriage is owned 50/50%. This is not off topic as this topic is about gay marriage and gays having the same marriage rights

[Jirapa]

The irony of this is that if they were to make equal partners with equal rights in a gay marriage, this would probably mean that gay people would have stronger marriage rights than women.

Please qualify your statement with something more reliable than "probable." There is so much misinformation pronounced in this area that we don't need any more. If you can't back up feelings and hunches with anything substantial, please don't say anything. Just how would same sex marriage give gay people more rights than women? Ridiculous!

Women have just as much rights in marriage as men and more. They have the right to 50% of everything owned and if they divorce they get to keep the kids so in fact they have more rights and that's reliable and not "probable" information.

For foreigners can it make a difference if they are married to a Thai man or a Thai woman.

No difference

[brianb1944]

But would these marriages pay sin sod too ?

Why not pay Sin Sod.....cant have discrimination can we

We do. Maybe not as formally as a straight marriage - but when a foreigner gets married in a 'committment ceremony' in Issan, we often pay a fair bit of sin sod.

Peter

Farang get given a lot of misinformation about dowry requirements here, thats why I married my Issan Girl in Australia. Cut the greedy grasping in laws out of the picture.

[ableguy]

The irony of this is that if they were to make equal partners with equal rights in a gay marriage, this would probably mean that gay people would have stronger marriage rights than women.

Please qualify your statement with something more reliable than "probable." There is so much misinformation pronounced in this area that we don't need any more. If you can't back up feelings and hunches with anything substantial, please don't say anything. Just how would same sex marriage give gay people more rights than women? Ridiculous!

Wow heard of anger management???????

[ableguy]

But would these marriages pay sin sod too ?

The sods are already in sin

[samurai]

Are there really 4 million khatoey's in Thailand? Sounds like a gross exaggeration to me.

There is no such thing as 3rd sex.

It's because the activists don't make the same distinction between "third sex" , kathoeys, gays and homosexuals like you might do.

They define "third sex" different. It is in the first sentence of the article:

Rights activists for the so-called "third sex" - gays, lesbians and transsexuals - have urged political parties to allow a same-sex marriage law.

10 per cent or around four million voters were "third sex". means 4 million were gays, lesbians or transsexuals (= everyone who is different from the heterosexual majority)

Gender issues, definitions and distinctions between them are seen different in Thailand than compared with the West and not every term translates well and doesn't have to mean necessarily the same.

For example: Thais call transgender/transsexual women khatoey. And they call effeminate gay man - khatoey too.

When in doubt, accept and follow the Thai view or you will not understand the article.

[samurai]

This is about all sexual minorities. Read the OP. Please, again, don't get hung up on the third sex thing. It's about equal marriage rights for couples who aren't standard male/female. That includes a lot of options. Most effected will be homosexual men, same sex male to male couples.

What about homosexual women?

Is homosexuality amongst females less likely?

[samurai]

For foreigners can it make a difference if they are married to a Thai man or a Thai woman.

No difference

http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/Thailand-Marriage-Visa.php

In the case of a foreign woman with a Thai husband the income requirement does not apply so no bank letter, bank book or guarantee letter is needed, but the husband must produce proof of payment of personal income tax in addition to the other documents. Additionally, as the husband is requesting his wife be allowed to stay with him in Thailand a personal interview is conducted by the Immigration officer and he fills out a separate form.

[Jirapa]

This is about all sexual minorities. Read the OP. Please, again, don't get hung up on the third sex thing. It's about equal marriage rights for couples who aren't standard male/female. That includes a lot of options. Most effected will be homosexual men, same sex male to male couples.

What about homosexual women?

Is homosexuality amongst females less likely?

Lesbians? Funny how most homophobic men are happy to watch 2 women going at it but are disgusted by the thought of 2 men making love. I have no interest in watching 2 men "gettin it on" but it happens and in a free world why not and why not gay marriage? It wasn't that long ago in the western world that women didn't have the right to vote and mixed race marriage was illegal so same sex marriage is just another move in the right direction of humanity becoming more compassionate and open towards their fellow humans.

[luckizuchinni]

I think the issue with gay "marriage" has to do with the issue of legal rights. Marriage allows the "legal" partner to make important decisions if the other is taken ill, it imparts some pension and health insurance rights as well. It's somewhat ridiculous that a gay couple that's been living together for 20 years or more is not considered to have a relationship where one can make critical care decisions for the other. It's like telling Mr. & Mrs. Wingnut hetrosexual couple that should Mr. Nut be in need of critical medical care, Mrs. Wing wouldn't be allowed to take the decision, and that she would need to go call Mr. Nut's 95 year old senile mum in Dorset or his psychotic brother in the Brixton jail for permission. If some guy wants to take responsibility for his partner good for him. Responsible behaviour should be encouraged, not discouraged.

I've always thought that this was the key to the whole thing. Aside from the aspect that two adults should be able to live as they please, the legal ramifications take care of many problems which arise because a gay partner cannot act in the same manner as a hetrosexual spouse. And that just doesn't seem right to me.

[jdinasia]

But would these marriages pay sin sod too ?

Why not pay Sin Sod.....cant have discrimination can we

We do. Maybe not as formally as a straight marriage - but when a foreigner gets married in a 'committment ceremony' in Issan, we often pay a fair bit of sin sod.

Peter

Not even a chance of that unless you are simply blind to the realities of SinSod in Thailand. You may have done so but it is not even close to being a standard practice amongst Thais (or in Thailand if you prefer.)

[Pi Sek]

Surely both should pay sinsots in female-female relationships and neither should if they are men? Could get confusing.

[jdinasia]

Why not a compromise here? Some states in America enacted "Domestic Partner" laws. These enable same-sex couples to enjoy the same legal rights as a "married" couple without a formal marriage. Still, many gays there insist on being legally married. It seems almost an obsession with some of them. I see no compelling reason to change this tradition from all countries for centuries.

Not getting into your hangup on labels ... or misinformation about marriage ..... in Thailand legal marriage is a civil union only. Many people do not follow the law on this and "common-law" marriages are certainly recognized here but the legal function of a marriage in Thailand is strictly civil. You go into your local amphur office, show your ID's, pay the fee, and walk out 20 minutes later fully married in the eyes of the law.

WHY would gay people want a marriage law (again -- who cares about the label!)

1) Legal status as "next of kin" ---

That's it ... the only reason.

Next-of-kin covers a myriad of things .... including

1- inheritance --- it is not uncommon for gay couples (either gender) to have a family member of a deceased partner basically steal everything the couple has worked together for years to build.

2- child custody --- similar to inheritance

3- no need for a medical power of attny -- next of kin status automatically can make decisions for an incapacitated spouse

4- visitation ---- gay partners have been denied visiting rights in hospitals, schools, businesses, and yes .. even jails.

5- insurance -- next of kin status means that companies that offer family insurance plans must cover same sex partners

6- survivor benefits --- including pensions, annuity payouts, life insurance

Why a heterosexual farang would want to see this in place in Thailand.

It appears easier for the farang wife of a Thai man to stay in Thailand. Having this law could lead to more equality for non-same-sex couples (farang husband, Thai wife)

Why a gay farang would want to see this law in Thailand. There is no visa extension option for committed gay couples in Thailand.

I am sure there are other arguments for why gay marriage is a good thing .... but my poor brain is taxed

[samurai]

It's about equal marriage rights for couples who aren't standard male/female. That includes a lot of options. Most effected will be homosexual men, same sex male to male couples.

What about homosexual women?

Is homosexuality amongst females less likely?

Lesbians? Funny how most homophobic men are happy to watch 2 women going at it but are disgusted by the thought of 2 men making love. I have no interest in watching 2 men "gettin it on" but it happens and in a free world why not and why not gay marriage? It wasn't that long ago in the western world that women didn't have the right to vote and mixed race marriage was illegal so same sex marriage is just another move in the right direction of humanity becoming more compassionate and open towards their fellow humans.

Funny is how men think its all about them and again forget that there are women and that they have equal rights.

And so the same sex marriage will be an option for female homosexuals too, same sex female to female couples.

[jdinasia]

Surely both should pay sinsots in female-female relationships and neither should if they are men? Could get confusing.

There is no tradition of sinsod for gays (thankfully) .... if there were though I think it would have to have been my BF that paid! This is not to say that no foreigners have been duped in gay relationships ... some have done the same silly things that str8 foreigners have done. Including paying sinsod for previously "married" people .... paying sinsod for moneyboys (same as bar girls) .... buying/paying for family houses etc .... none of which make any sense in Thai tradition regardless of gender

[Jirapa]

It's about equal marriage rights for couples who aren't standard male/female. That includes a lot of options. Most effected will be homosexual men, same sex male to male couples.

What about homosexual women?

Is homosexuality amongst females less likely?

Lesbians? Funny how most homophobic men are happy to watch 2 women going at it but are disgusted by the thought of 2 men making love. I have no interest in watching 2 men "gettin it on" but it happens and in a free world why not and why not gay marriage? It wasn't that long ago in the western world that women didn't have the right to vote and mixed race marriage was illegal so same sex marriage is just another move in the right direction of humanity becoming more compassionate and open towards their fellow humans.

Funny is how men think its all about them and again forget that there are women and that they have equal rights.

And so the same sex marriage will be an option for female homosexuals too, same sex female to female couples.

Funny thing is that someone on this thread said that homosexuality is against the CALL OF NATURE. They used capital letters! By that logic then isn't celibacy against the CALL OF NATURE as we're born to reproduce? Okay same sex partners can't have kids biologically through sex but celibates can't have kids because they don't have sex so shouldn't celibate marriages between celibates also be illegal? Catholic priests when they're not fiddling little children are celibate as are Nuns and Buddhist monks so isn't their vow of celibacy going against the CALL OF NATURE and just as sinful as homosexuality. The person on the thread stated gays are living in sin so don't take that as my opinion as I don't care what two consenting adults do or don't do sexually.

[rik072]

The whole principle of gay marriage is that everyone is equal in this world and should have equal rights. So why would this not be valid for two people of the same sex who love each other very much.

In the Netherlands we also have gay marriage and gay and lesbian couples have the same rights as any other couple. I am personally very proud that this is possible in the Netherlands.

It's not just a story of love but also for practical reasons it is sometimes better to get married. I am thinking of buying a house, life insurance, making dicision When The partner is unable-(like-for-surgery) etc etc

And for the narrow-minded people among us awake, we are no longer living in the Middle Ages. If I'm not mistaken, we live in a time when it should be possible that people simply must love one another without the consent of relatives friends neighbors and family. The old and trusted male and female, and of course the child is from the fifties and is certainly not the standard at this time.

If Thailand really adopts this law, they immediately make a clear signal to Asia and the rest of the world, Thailand stands for the equal treatment of people without anny regard to their sexual orientation!

:jap:

@reason1

Wow you are a typical example of a homophobic. I do not know under which rock or cave in which you have lived the past 20 years but I welcome you into the 21st century.

[jdinasia]

Funny thing is that someone on this thread said that homosexuality is against the CALL OF NATURE. They used capital letters! By that logic then isn't celibacy against the CALL OF NATURE as we're born to reproduce? Okay same sex partners can't have kids biologically through sex but celibates can't have kids because they don't have sex so shouldn't celibate marriages between celibates also be illegal? Catholic priests when they're not fiddling little children are celibate as are Nuns and Buddhist monks so isn't their vow of celibacy going against the CALL OF NATURE and just as sinful as homosexuality. The person on the thread stated gays are living in sin so don't take that as my opinion as I don't care what two consenting adults do or don't do sexually.

People making the "marriage is for procreation" argument have a huge battle to fight. Procreation doesn't require marriage at all. Child-rearing doesn't require marriage. People who cannot procreate are allowed to wed. There is no required test for the ability to procreate required for a marriage license. Post-menopausal women are allowed to marry. Men who have had vasectomies or suffer from erectile dysfunction are allowed to marry ... etc etc etc

again don't get hung up on the label and look at the reality.

[Jirapa]

Funny thing is that someone on this thread said that homosexuality is against the CALL OF NATURE. They used capital letters! By that logic then isn't celibacy against the CALL OF NATURE as we're born to reproduce? Okay same sex partners can't have kids biologically through sex but celibates can't have kids because they don't have sex so shouldn't celibate marriages between celibates also be illegal? Catholic priests when they're not fiddling little children are celibate as are Nuns and Buddhist monks so isn't their vow of celibacy going against the CALL OF NATURE and just as sinful as homosexuality. The person on the thread stated gays are living in sin so don't take that as my opinion as I don't care what two consenting adults do or don't do sexually.

People making the "marriage is for procreation" argument have a huge battle to fight. Procreation doesn't require marriage at all. Child-rearing doesn't require marriage. People who cannot procreate are allowed to wed. There is no required test for the ability to procreate required for a marriage license. Post-menopausal women are allowed to marry. Men who have had vasectomies or suffer from erectile dysfunction are allowed to marry ... etc etc etc

again don't get hung up on the label and look at the reality.

Don't get your point? That's exactly what I was saying

[Jirapa]

Funny thing is that someone on this thread said that homosexuality is against the CALL OF NATURE. They used capital letters! By that logic then isn't celibacy against the CALL OF NATURE as we're born to reproduce? Okay same sex partners can't have kids biologically through sex but celibates can't have kids because they don't have sex so shouldn't celibate marriages between celibates also be illegal? Catholic priests when they're not fiddling little children are celibate as are Nuns and Buddhist monks so isn't their vow of celibacy going against the CALL OF NATURE and just as sinful as homosexuality. The person on the thread stated gays are living in sin so don't take that as my opinion as I don't care what two consenting adults do or don't do sexually.

People making the "marriage is for procreation" argument have a huge battle to fight. Procreation doesn't require marriage at all. Child-rearing doesn't require marriage. People who cannot procreate are allowed to wed. There is no required test for the ability to procreate required for a marriage license. Post-menopausal women are allowed to marry. Men who have had vasectomies or suffer from erectile dysfunction are allowed to marry ... etc etc etc

again don't get hung up on the label and look at the reality.

Don't get your point? That's exactly what I was saying

Sorry I get you! You agree with my point

[sausageandmash]

Because God created Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve!

Gay couples should have exactly same the same rights as straight couples. Why does Thailand deny gay couples the chance of being equally as unhappy as married straight couples?