Freelance Work Permit?

[IMA_FARANG]

I found some information as sort of a partial answer to my own question.

I will try to post a link here to the URL with the question and reply.

The link is:

http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1200

This is a question to the Phuket Gazette and their answer.

Moderaters: According to my understandng of the forum rules simply posting a URL link to another publication is not a violation of any forum rules. If I am wrong please delete this post.

Thanks

IMA_FARANG

[Soutpeel]

Think this is a case of the "internet business men" dreaming again

[IMA_FARANG]

I found some information as sort of a partial answer to my own question.

I will try to post a link here to the URL with the question and reply.

The link is:

http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1200

This is a question to the Phuket Gazette and their answer.

Moderaters: According to my understandng of the forum rules simply posting a URL link to another publication is not a violation of any forum rules. If I am wrong please delete this post.

Thanks

IMA_FARANG

Edited June 1, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[mrjohnno]

Think this is a case of the "internet business men" dreaming again

I know plenty of people who earn there keep doing internet work in Thailand. I am not one of them but I could quite easily do it.

[Maestro]

I found some information as sort of a partial answer to my own question.

I will try to post a link here to the URL with the question and reply.

The link is:

http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1200

This is a question to the Phuket Gazette and their answer.

Moderaters: According to my understandng of the forum rules simply posting a URL link to another publication is not a violation of any forum rules. If I am wrong please delete this post.

Thanks

IMA_FARANG

With The Nation and Phuket Gazette, partners of ThaiVisa, we are allowed to quote full articles as long as we give them proper credit, using the appropriate link from "other styles" at the top left of the reply box.

[Maestro]

ISSUES & ANSWERS

Do I need a work permit to teach horse riding?

I have repeatedly called the number recently given out for the work permit department: 076-219660-1

The female officer answering the phone has been most unprofessional and can barely speak English. The work permit department is for foreigners, correct?

She puts one on interminable hold by loudly placing the the phone where one can hear the giggling remarks about Caucasians.

A young man who called himself “Khun Boy, who I have been able to get through to, instructed me to send an email to his private Hotmail address, but for two weeks now it has yet to be answered.

I simply want to know if it is possible to be issued a work permit to teach riding with my personal horse on a freelance basis without having to start a company.

I already reside here on a non-immigrant B Investor visa.

I cannot find a Thai I trust enough to have 51 per cent control of my money as a legal company would entail. So, can I start a business as a sole proprietor?

Queries to “attorneys” have resulted in a completely different answer in each case.

May I also ask: Are expat actors in neighborhood playhouses required to start companies to get work permits? Belly dance teachers? Yoga instructors? Moderators on discussion forums? Bloggers? IT fixers?

What about growing fruit for personal consumption?

I’d say the Phuket Gazette classified ads are full of foreigners advertising their services, but the ads do not specifically say they have a work permit.

Is this allowed?

Why not make a provision and adopt a freelance permit and a system for legally taxing residing foreigners who are not criminals so they can pass on their knowledge?

Christy Sweet, Thalang Friday, March 25, 2011

“In general, foreigners who want to work without forming their own company can apply for a freelance work permit, but I cannot say exactly which types of work will be approved and which will not.

However, just for example, artists, artisans, singers, musicians, technicians, reporters, among others, are some of the types of workers who are usually allowed to work on a self-employed basis.

They need to file the application form and show us “relevant documents” and we will consider approval case-by-case.

If your request is approved, it would be only temporarily, until we can check your tax payment history when you renew your work permit.

For a work permit for horse riding lessons, prepare whatever relevant documents you have, such as any licenses or permits proving you own the horse, photos and details of where the horse is stabled, a plan of which customers you intend to serve, details of the location where you will conduct your lessons and so on. Come in to the office in person to talk with us.

And, if you find any foreigners working without a permit, please let us know by letter or fax.

We will investigate and prosecute any person found breaking the law.

Please call our work permit division for more information at 076-219660-1 ext13 and ask specifically for Khun Boy.

He is the officer who can offer basic information in English and Chinese.”

Friday, March 25, 2011

Noppadol Ployudee, Phuket Provincial Employment Office chief

“Anyone, Thai or foreign, who is self-employed and earns over 100,000 baht a year in income must file tax payments using the Phor Ngor Dor 90 form.

Anyone found not paying tax on their income will be ordered to pay outstanding tax as back taxes and they will be fined.”

Friday, March 25, 2011

Sanchai Rattanasangoun, chief of the Phuket Regional Revenue Office

-- Phuket Gazette 2011-03-25

[Maestro]

“In general, foreigners who want to work without forming their own company can apply for a freelance work permit, but I cannot say exactly which types of work will be approved and which will not.

However, just for example, artists, artisans, singers, musicians, technicians, reporters, among others, are some of the types of workers who are usually allowed to work on a self-employed basis.

They need to file the application form and show us “relevant documents” and we will consider approval case-by-case...Friday, March 25, 2011

Noppadol Ployudee, Phuket Provincial Employment Office chief

-- Phuket Gazette 2011-03-25

By coincidence, there was this news article posted today, from which I quote the following:

...Ruchuchai Potha, Chiang Mai Employment Office, Department of Work Permits,...answered, "If you work at home it's none of my business, gardening, sweeping, painting, it's all fine. It's when you perform activities which help someone (or yourself) earn an income, that is not OK"...Any foreigner with intent to work, or 'jam', can apply for a 15 day temporary work permit through the Department of Work Permits in Chiang Mai. Ruchuachai says, "I'm a reasonable man, we can give permission, the law says if a foreigner is going to work for less than 15 days they can - just come and ask me."...

[Maestro]

The real bombshell, however, is the following, as IMAFARANG has pointed out in the topic title:

“In general, foreigners who want to work without forming their own company can apply for a freelance work permit...

Friday, March 25, 2011

Noppadol Ployudee, Phuket Provincial Employment Office chief

...

-- Phuket Gazette 2011-03-25

If this is true, if a foreigner can apply for and receive a work permit without being employed by a company in Thailand, this is something new, not included in currently published laws and regulations. I saw another, brand-new topic on a rumour about it yesterday but can't find it immediately. If anybody else comes across it, kindly post a link to it in this topic.

[davejonesbkk]

this is a very interesting thread, if anyone can shed some light and official links etc on this then please do

[Soutpeel]

Think this is a case of the "internet business men" dreaming again

I know plenty of people who earn there keep doing internet work in Thailand. I am not one of them but I could quite easily do it.

And care to hazard a guess how many are doing it legally...

[Maestro]

From the OP:

This is supposed to be a new law, and one that may not yet be promulgated or signed/approved by the King...therefore these work permits can't yet can't be granted.

On further reflection I believe there was no other topic where I read about this subject; it was in fact this here topic that I remembered.

I had a quick look at the Alien Working Act B.E. 2551 (2008), known in its English translations also by a few other titles, and I see that it does not go into details of the various types of work permits. These details, I believe, are dealt with in a Ministerial Regulation and thus need not approval by by the parliament and promulgation by the head of state, ie the King. Most probably, it will be discussed and approved by the Cabinet before the ministry in charge issues the corresponding Ministerial Regulation, which is then published in the Royal Gazette.

Hopefully, more information -- official or semi-official -- on this rumoured new availability of a work permit for so-called freelancers without the need to be employed by a Thai company becomes available. If anybody hears or reads anything, please post it and quote the source.

[Tatsujin]

Yes, but the key point in the quote was:

the law says if a foreigner is going to work for less than 15 days they can

For most, that is not what they are looking for, they want a work permit full time without starting a company, not for only 15 days.

[Tatsujin]

Oh, and the other part of the quote:

It's when you perform activities which help someone (or yourself) earn an income, that is not OK

So all those working from home without a Work Permit cos they do their work "online" or only have "overseas customers" are the ones that they are after.

[Soutpeel]

The real bombshell, however, is the following, as IMAFARANG has pointed out in the topic title:

"In general, foreigners who want to work without forming their own company can apply for a freelance work permit...

Friday, March 25, 2011

Noppadol Ployudee, Phuket Provincial Employment Office chief

...

-- Phuket Gazette 2011-03-25

If this is true, if a foreigner can apply for and receive a work permit without being employed by a company in Thailand, this is something new, not included in currently published laws and regulations. I saw another, brand-new topic on a rumour about it yesterday but can't find it immediately. If anybody else comes across it, kindly post a link to it in this topic.

I think before all the "internet businessmen" wet their panties thinking this a a route to a long term visa and WP, I personally think the officals are taking about temporary WP's ie the 15 day variety...which are are in common use in Thailand currently

Look at the job classifications they are talking about

"However, just for example, artists, artisans, singers, musicians, technicians, reporters, among others, are some of the types of workers who are usually allowed to work on a self-employed basis"

Typically these sorts of jobs when in they could be invited to Thailand on a short term basis to display art, perform, techinicans (brought in all the time on a temporary basis for oil & gas).....none of these are employed by Thai companies, so could be classed as "self-employed" in terms of the dept of Labour, and need to be invited by a Thai entity, (this is the relevant documents they are talking about)

To answer the long held belief by some people that working the internet with overseas customers and paid into accounts outside Thailand and say its a grey area or even legal.....

"It's when you perform activities which help someone (or yourself) earn an income, that is not OK" would suggest this sentence puts that perception to bed once and for all..

Believe what is happening with this rumour is that people are putting their own spin on what they think a "self-employed WP" actually is....I believe Labour is talking about 15 day temporary WP's only.

[Maestro]

Yes, but the key point in the quote was:

the law says if a foreigner is going to work for less than 15 days they can

For most, that is not what they are looking for, they want a work permit full time without starting a company, not for only 15 days.

So the basic question is whether the "freelance work permit" mentioned by Noppadol Ployudee, Phuket Provincial Employment Office chief, in his reply on March 25, 2011 to a letter to the editor of the Phuket Gazette is the same "Necessary and urgent Work Acknowledgment" to which Ruchuchai Potha of the Chiang Mai Employment Office referred when he said that "any foreigner with intent to work, or 'jam', can apply for a 15 day temporary work permit through the Department of Work Permits in Chiang Mai"

The Phuket chief replied to a man who did not say that he wanted to work for a limited period not exceeding 15 days. That foreigner asked about teaching horse riding with his own horse in general, while living in Thailand long term on what he calls, somewhat inaccurately, a "non-immigrant B Investor visa"

[Maestro]

The Phuket chief hinted at a long-term work permit, ie not just for 15 days, for the horse owner wanting to give riding lessons when he wrote:

If your request is approved, it would be only temporarily, until we can check your tax payment history when you renew your work permit.

However, if such possibility existed already at the end of March of this year, where is it in the existing regulation? There would be no need to wait for a new regulation that may never come. The mystery remains.

[Maestro]

I have this link to the “Department of Employment Regulations Governing the Criteria of Considering Permitting the Work of Foreigners A.D. 2004”. These regulations refer to “Section 7 and Section 8 of the Work of Foreigners Act A.D. 1978”. However, the current “Alien Working Act B.E. 2551 (2008)” is more recent, for which reason I believe the aforementioned Department of Employment Regulations of the year 2004 must have been superseded by a new version. Does anybody have a link to the new version?

[Soutpeel]

The Phuket chief hinted at a long-term work permit, ie not just for 15 days, for the horse owner wanting to give riding lessons when he wrote:

If your request is approved, it would be only temporarily, until we can check your tax payment history when you renew your work permit.

However, if such possibility existed already at the end of March of this year, where is it in the existing regulation? There would be no need to wait for a new regulation that may never come. The mystery remains.

I humbly disagree this is a hint at a long term WP...One the mysteries of the Temporary 15 day WP (having been involved in trying to getting these arranged for O&G) is how many times in a year a specfic individual can be issued these WP's and it appears its based solely on the mood of the official deciding, therefore the Phuket Chief may be suggesting you can get more than one block of 15 days a year.

[Maestro]

...it appears its based solely on the mood of the official deciding...

I like your circumspect way of putting it (without reference to tea, with which I am now going to make a cup)

[wpcoe]

The real bombshell, however, is the following, as IMAFARANG has pointed out in the topic title:

“In general, foreigners who want to work without forming their own company can apply for a freelance work permit...

Friday, March 25, 2011

Noppadol Ployudee, Phuket Provincial Employment Office chief

...

-- Phuket Gazette 2011-03-25

If this is true, if a foreigner can apply for and receive a work permit without being employed by a company in Thailand, this is something new, not included in currently published laws and regulations. I saw another, brand-new topic on a rumour about it yesterday but can't find it immediately. If anybody else comes across it, kindly post a link to it in this topic.

Another "bombshell" from the Chiang Mai article:

He (Ruchuchai Potha, Chiang Mai Employment Office, Department of Work Permits) even goes so far as to mention the tourist police in Chiang Mai, who employ foreign 'volunteers' who are technically working without official work permits, "please tell them that that is illegal! They need to come and report to me.

Why can't he initiate action if he knows there's a violation? Isn't that his job?