Thai Workers Need To Upgrade Skills

[trisailer]

Anyone can cherry pick particular characteristics of Thai culture that are in opposition to western views, but the fact remains that Thailand enjoys significant growth that most western countries envy. The US will be lucky to break 1.5% growth in GDP this year and unemployment is 10% The US economy is worse than the great depression currently.

Thailand also has nearly 0% unemployment. Anyone who does have a four year degree is virtually guaranteed a job here. That cannot be said of many other countries.

Obviously there are bumps in the road as Thailand moves forward but for the time being they are an economic powerhouse who other countries in Asia will spend decades trying to catch up with.

Those are the facts and I welcome anyone to prove otherwise.

[folium]

Anyone can cherry pick particular characteristics of Thai culture that are in opposition to western views, but the fact remains that Thailand enjoys significant growth that most western countries envy. The US will be lucky to break 1.5% growth in GDP this year and unemployment is 10% The US economy is worse than the great depression currently.

Thailand also has nearly 0% unemployment. Anyone who does have a four year degree is virtually guaranteed a job here. That cannot be said of many other countries.

Obviously there are bumps in the road as Thailand moves forward but for the time being they are an economic powerhouse who other countries in Asia will spend decades trying to catch up with.

Those are the facts and I welcome anyone to prove otherwise.

Quite so. But the key issue about Thailand is the fact that it could be doing so much better if the education system was better, if corruption was not so endemic, if deference and mai pen rai did not stifle innovation and creativity....if, if, if

Nowhere is perfect but Thailand is rapidly losing its economic advantages in relation to the rest of Asia, and the potential political black clouds also deter inward investment. The tragic state of high school and university "education" will condemn Thailand to slipping down the ratings as labour costs here continue to rise relative to the rest of Asia.

Underemployment, declining productivity, skills deficiencies and wasted potential are becoming damaging traits of the Thai economy.

[EvilDrSomkid]

Anyone can cherry pick particular characteristics of Thai culture that are in opposition to western views, but the fact remains that Thailand enjoys significant growth that most western countries envy. The US will be lucky to break 1.5% growth in GDP this year and unemployment is 10% The US economy is worse than the great depression currently.

Thailand also has nearly 0% unemployment. Anyone who does have a four year degree is virtually guaranteed a job here. That cannot be said of many other countries.

Obviously there are bumps in the road as Thailand moves forward but for the time being they are an economic powerhouse who other countries in Asia will spend decades trying to catch up with.

Those are the facts and I welcome anyone to prove otherwise.

You might be correct in what you say, but that is not at issue in this topic.

The heavy growth of Thailand right now is because they are export heavy.

The issue is that Thai workers have little or no imagination, skills to work on an international high level, nor can they innovate and think outside the box.

The ones that can, usually leave the country.

[TheWalkingMan]

One person summed it up in an interesting way saying "they don't know how to think", not an insult but a very profound statement.

They were never taught how to think. That is the problem. I would always call it brain exercise as just like muscles, if you don't use it, you lose it. Many people never had their brains exercised and as a consequence the path of least resistance is always picked.

I believe that this is also the reason why some people get headaches when asked to think about or discuss things. Their brains never had to do it before and now, like when you first start on a physical exercise program, it hurts.

TheWalkingMan

[Thongkorn]

Dont make me laugh , The Govenment people should get themselfs out to the Industial areas of Thailand , Sahmut Prakan , Sahmut Sahkon, Take a look at the Burmese working on half the wages of the Thai people, Thats where the money is made, So how would upgrading Thai workers Help.

[trisailer]

Anyone can cherry pick particular characteristics of Thai culture that are in opposition to western views, but the fact remains that Thailand enjoys significant growth that most western countries envy. The US will be lucky to break 1.5% growth in GDP this year and unemployment is 10% The US economy is worse than the great depression currently.

Thailand also has nearly 0% unemployment. Anyone who does have a four year degree is virtually guaranteed a job here. That cannot be said of many other countries.

Obviously there are bumps in the road as Thailand moves forward but for the time being they are an economic powerhouse who other countries in Asia will spend decades trying to catch up with.

Those are the facts and I welcome anyone to prove otherwise.

You might be correct in what you say, but that is not at issue in this topic.

The heavy growth of Thailand right now is because they are export heavy.

The issue is that Thai workers have little or no imagination, skills to work on an international high level, nor can they innovate and think outside the box.

The ones that can, usually leave the country.

I agree that Asian countries in general lack the creative/innovative abilities of the west. It's not just Thailand. Japan had a long history of copying ideas created in the west and perfecting them. Ironically W. Edwards Deming tried to sell the idea of quality circles to reduce variation in quality in the US after WW2 and was rejected. He then went to Japan and we all know the result of improving the focus on quality of Japanese products. Japan is still not a big innovator in spite of it's excellent schools and dedicated students. This is a Asian thing which will take a very long time to change.

In the mean time Thailand is still ahead of most other Asian countries in the production of quality items.

I would also agree that Thailand has not yet adopted the western work ethic, but they are also not suffering the effects of that work ethic like depression and sleep disorders and over eating that come from living a fear driven life.

Knowing what I know about work in the west and it's impact on the average person I'm not so sure they should want to. I don't believe that the current model of productivity in the west is desirable or sustainable

The issue is weather or not they are being overtaken by other Asian countries that all have the same goals of improving innovation. I would argue that they are way ahead of the Asian countries that they are competing with. They are also well aware of the need to improve their education systems to maintain that competitiveness.

The fact is that there are very few Steve Jobs in the world anywhere. For most of the near future perfecting their high tech production capabilities is the challenge. Most production these days is automated and tightly controlled by statistical models. There really isn't many people in the west who "think outside the box" in spite of what you hear.

[TigerWan]

In fact Thai people will freeze and look blank (and quite often simply walk away) if they are asked to improvise or solve a problem. They cannot project their vision (as they are trained not to have any) or analyse situations (because they've been taught not to question) and are incapable of showing initiative, resoursefulness, compromise or innovation.

Great great observation on such an annoying trait.

[trisailer]

In fact Thai people will freeze and look blank (and quite often simply walk away) if they are asked to improvise or solve a problem. They cannot project their vision (as they are trained not to have any) or analyze situations (because they've been taught not to question) and are incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, compromise or innovation.

Great great observation on such an annoying trait.

What a ridiculous comment. If a Thai goes blank, and I admit that it frequently happens, it is because they don't understand English. I do the same thing when I try to practice Thai and they start jabbering away in Thai. A lot of people go blank when confronted with a test. They do not go blank when approaching a problem that they understand how to solve, they dig in and solve it.

Try giving the average clerk in the US change after the cash registered has calculated the change for them and see it happen. Try asking for something in the west in a nonnative language and see what happens. Humans are the same everywhere. Thai's are no different.

[robsamui]

In fact Thai people will freeze and look blank (and quite often simply walk away) if they are asked to improvise or solve a problem. They cannot project their vision (as they are trained not to have any) or analyze situations (because they've been taught not to question) and are incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, compromise or innovation.

Great great observation on such an annoying trait.

What a ridiculous comment. If a Thai goes blank, and I admit that it frequently happens, it is because they don't understand English. I do the same thing when I try to practice Thai and they start jabbering away in Thai. A lot of people go blank when confronted with a test. They do not go blank when approaching a problem that they understand how to solve, they dig in and solve it.

Try giving the average clerk in the US change after the cash registered has calculated the change for them and see it happen. Try asking for something in the west in a nonnative language and see what happens. Humans are the same everywhere. Thai's are no different.

I completely disagree.

When they blank and switch off it's because they are in the process of losing face - and that could be for any one of a hundred different reasons. In this context it is because they do not know how to respond to a specific situation because they have not been told how to do so and don't have the initiative to cope with it.

I've frequently seen this happen with hotel staff who can speak good English. They just go and hide somewhere until the problem goes away by itself (ie the farang gets tired of waiting and clears off.) But perhaps this might be the case in some rural areas . . .

The point here is that the Thai people are specifically trained in school NOT so solve problems - speaking English has nothing to do with it.

R

[atyclb]

In fact Thai people will freeze and look blank (and quite often simply walk away) if they are asked to improvise or solve a problem. They cannot project their vision (as they are trained not to have any) or analyze situations (because they've been taught not to question) and are incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, compromise or innovation.

Great great observation on such an annoying trait.

What a ridiculous comment. If a Thai goes blank, and I admit that it frequently happens, it is because they don't understand English. I do the same thing when I try to practice Thai and they start jabbering away in Thai. A lot of people go blank when confronted with a test. They do not go blank when approaching a problem that they understand how to solve, they dig in and solve it.

Try giving the average clerk in the US change after the cash registered has calculated the change for them and see it happen. Try asking for something in the west in a nonnative language and see what happens. Humans are the same everywhere. Thai's are no different.

Sorry to shatter your hypothesis, but is readily happens within their native language exclusively. Examples when myself or enlightened Thai friends deal with people. Sometimes they will freeze when a Caucasian speaks their language (only compounding the other issues)

A few days ago at Pantip Plaza I was looking at a Thai language promotional poster below a computer. A salesman saw me and started chucking with his colleague and the two were quite amused until I spoke to them the written words at which point it seemed they entered respiratory arrest.

It is with great sadness indeed that I concur with the above comments.

[Farang0tang]

Anyone can cherry pick particular characteristics of Thai culture that are in opposition to western views, but the fact remains that Thailand enjoys significant growth that most western countries envy. The US will be lucky to break 1.5% growth in GDP this year and unemployment is 10% The US economy is worse than the great depression currently.

Thailand also has nearly 0% unemployment. Anyone who does have a four year degree is virtually guaranteed a job here. That cannot be said of many other countries.

Obviously there are bumps in the road as Thailand moves forward but for the time being they are an economic powerhouse who other countries in Asia will spend decades trying to catch up with.

Those are the facts and I welcome anyone to prove otherwise.

But the OP states "There are 400,000 graduates withdegrees and only 100,000 of them get jobs"

[atyclb]

Anyone can cherry pick particular characteristics of Thai culture that are in opposition to western views, but the fact remains that Thailand enjoys significant growth that most western countries envy. The US will be lucky to break 1.5% growth in GDP this year and unemployment is 10% The US economy is worse than the great depression currently.

Thailand also has nearly 0% unemployment. Anyone who does have a four year degree is virtually guaranteed a job here. That cannot be said of many other countries.

Obviously there are bumps in the road as Thailand moves forward but for the time being they are an economic powerhouse who other countries in Asia will spend decades trying to catch up with.

Those are the facts and I welcome anyone to prove otherwise.

But the OP states "There are 400,000 graduates withdegrees and only 100,000 of them get jobs"

Yet another example of why Thailand is "amazing"

[robsamui]

In fact Thai people will freeze and look blank (and quite often simply walk away) if they are asked to improvise or solve a problem. They cannot project their vision (as they are trained not to have any) or analyze situations (because they've been taught not to question) and are incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, compromise or innovation.

Great great observation on such an annoying trait.

What a ridiculous comment. If a Thai goes blank, and I admit that it frequently happens, it is because they don't understand English. I do the same thing when I try to practice Thai and they start jabbering away in Thai. A lot of people go blank when confronted with a test. They do not go blank when approaching a problem that they understand how to solve, they dig in and solve it.

Try giving the average clerk in the US change after the cash registered has calculated the change for them and see it happen. Try asking for something in the west in a nonnative language and see what happens. Humans are the same everywhere. Thai's are no different.

Sorry to shatter your hypothesis, but is readily happens within their native language exclusively. Examples when myself or enlightened Thai friends deal with people. Sometimes they will freeze when a Caucasian speaks their language (only compounding the other issues)

A few days ago at Pantip Plaza I was looking at a Thai language promotional poster below a computer. A salesman saw me and started chucking with his colleague and the two were quite amused until I spoke to them the written words at which point it seemed they entered respiratory arrest.

It is with great sadness indeed that I concur with the above comments.

I don't think it's because of the language exclusively, it's what happens when they find themselves in a situation that they don't know how to respond to. This language thing is a side-track - don't get hung up on it. It may or may not be connected with an aspect of the English language. But I've seen exactly the same thing happen with a (cosmopolitan) native Thai man speaking in Thai and complaining at a restaurant. The waitress froze for several seconds, turned and walked away without saying a word and didn't re-appear. Eventually after five or so minutes he went to find the restaurant manager.

Rob

Edited June 13, 2011 by robsamui

[robsamui]

In fact Thai people will freeze and look blank (and quite often simply walk away) if they are asked to improvise or solve a problem. They cannot project their vision (as they are trained not to have any) or analyze situations (because they've been taught not to question) and are incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, compromise or innovation.

Great great observation on such an annoying trait.

What a ridiculous comment. If a Thai goes blank, and I admit that it frequently happens, it is because they don't understand English. I do the same thing when I try to practice Thai and they start jabbering away in Thai. A lot of people go blank when confronted with a test. They do not go blank when approaching a problem that they understand how to solve, they dig in and solve it.

Try giving the average clerk in the US change after the cash registered has calculated the change for them and see it happen. Try asking for something in the west in a nonnative language and see what happens. Humans are the same everywhere. Thai's are no different.

Sorry to shatter your hypothesis, but is readily happens within their native language exclusively. Examples when myself or enlightened Thai friends deal with people. Sometimes they will freeze when a Caucasian speaks their language (only compounding the other issues)

A few days ago at Pantip Plaza I was looking at a Thai language promotional poster below a computer. A salesman saw me and started chucking with his colleague and the two were quite amused until I spoke to them the written words at which point it seemed they entered respiratory arrest.

It is with great sadness indeed that I concur with the above comments.

ps - - - chuckle chuckle - - -

if so, then indeed, "Thai Workers Need to Upgrade Their Skills".

Back on track again!

R

[trisailer]

We have been through this conversation many times and OBJECTIVE evidence disagrees with the claim that Thai's are less intelligent or "incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, innovation or compromise.

Certainly there are classes of people who would demonstrate those characteristics and they are EVENLY distributed throughout the world. Every society has them. The biggest complaint in the west currently is lazy people abusing the welfare systems. There is an increasing percentage of people in the west who are discouraged and have basically quit trying. There is no welfare in Thailand, it's work or starve! They exhibit the the above characteristics in the SAME RATIOS. These characteristics have everything to do with class, education and upbringing. Not everyone needs to go to fancy schools and contemplate the universe. The fact is that until recently in the west people who became doctors and lawyers did so through on the job training with skilled professionals. I would argue that all the fancy schools in the west are producing atomotrons who CANNOT think for themselves and innovation in the west is rare and isolated to a handful of individuals. I worked in manufacturing and engineering with a bunch of MBA's who didn't have the common sense and management skills of a knat.

Some of you who constantly complain about the Thai's shortcomings; Their xenophobia, lack of initiative, and lack of critical thinking skills are in fact demonstrating your own xenophobia, lack of intuitive and critical thinking skills by your failure to evaluate OBJECTIVE information. Perhaps it is because you only know Thai's with these characteristics. Obviously bar girls, motorbike taxi drivers and street people will fit this category, but consider that Thailand is a world renowned producer of high tech products and autos. Countries full of the kinds of people that some of you incessantly describe do not achieve world status.

My experience is that the Thai's I know are ambitious, intelligent and innovative. For example; The developer who built the housing development that I live in has a 6th grade education and started out in life as a laborer. He paid attention and became a foreman. He invested wisely and accumulated the capital to start building homes. He's now on his 3rd development and a highly successful investor. Another example; My wife's aunt only finished 4th grade, but has taught herself organic, sustainable farming and horticulture. I would put up against any expert when it comes to this area. She also teaches traditional Thai dance and is a highly respected leader in the community. Each and every Thai that I know, except for those who have chosen a lazy lifestyle (bar girls and taxi drivers) is motivated and is achieving their goals. MY wife's two brothers were high school dropouts, both have completed HS and one already has obtained a degree in computers. Her other brother is a driver for a Japanese businessman and goes to night school. Her sister started out as a clerk at an electronics factory and is constantly taking courses and being promoted. Even McDonald's and KFC employees are sharp and attentive compared to the US.

So, when you make these degrading and insulting posts regarding the Thai's think about how it makes YOU look. Think about how you identify yourself as the very thing that your claiming the Thai's to be.

[trisailer]

In fact Thai people will freeze and look blank (and quite often simply walk away) if they are asked to improvise or solve a problem. They cannot project their vision (as they are trained not to have any) or analyze situations (because they've been taught not to question) and are incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, compromise or innovation.

Great great observation on such an annoying trait.

What a ridiculous comment. If a Thai goes blank, and I admit that it frequently happens, it is because they don't understand English. I do the same thing when I try to practice Thai and they start jabbering away in Thai. A lot of people go blank when confronted with a test. They do not go blank when approaching a problem that they understand how to solve, they dig in and solve it.

Try giving the average clerk in the US change after the cash registered has calculated the change for them and see it happen. Try asking for something in the west in a nonnative language and see what happens. Humans are the same everywhere. Thai's are no different.

Sorry to shatter your hypothesis, but is readily happens within their native language exclusively. Examples when myself or enlightened Thai friends deal with people. Sometimes they will freeze when a Caucasian speaks their language (only compounding the other issues)

A few days ago at Pantip Plaza I was looking at a Thai language promotional poster below a computer. A salesman saw me and started chucking with his colleague and the two were quite amused until I spoke to them the written words at which point it seemed they entered respiratory arrest.

It is with great sadness indeed that I concur with the above comments.

ps - - - chuckle chuckle - - -

if so, then indeed, "Thai Workers Need to Upgrade Their Skills".

Back on track again!

R

I can relate thousands of personal experiences of the exact same nature the occurred in the US. I was a bootstrap guy myself and spent my last working decade in management. I saw many examples of incompetence by so called "educated" people. Here's something to think about; The Thai's are on the rapid economic development side of the curve. The US is so incompetent that it recently brought the WORLD to the brink of economic collapse. It is unlikely, IMO that the US economy will survive as a result of it's incompetence and it will drag the rest of the world into who knows what kinds of disaster. What was it Jesus said; "before you tell someone else to take the sliver of wood from their eye, take the plank out of your own"

Everyone can relate a story of someone Else's incompetence. The point is to remain objective when evaluating an entire society.

I makes me wonder how insecure some of you are to constantly complain about a society that has far less problems than your own.

Thailand is way out ahead of it's Asian competitors in virtually every single area. I challange anyone to provide facts that show otherwise.

Edited June 14, 2011 by trisailer

[atyclb]

We have been through this conversation many times and OBJECTIVE evidence disagrees with the claim that Thai's are less intelligent or "incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, innovation or compromise.

I do not think Thai's are less intelligent or incapable of critical thinking. Thai's that have spent time in other educational systems, or grew up in other countries certainly disproves any racial theories. I personally know some Thais that are glaringly capable however "glaringly" also means they stand out so much that you well need sunglasses to deal with the luminance. One such freshman university student I know fits this category. She complains allot in a similar way about lack of reason and logic in society. She condemns the popular nightly soap operas and is frustrated by many fellow students at a good university.The people you speak of in my experience are certainly the exceptions rather than the norm. Perhaps many expats that live in the entertainment oriented sub-culture almost exclusively deal with low end people as you say. their experiences can be very bitter as the lifestyle they envisioned is not what they thought it would be.

If you GOOGLE "critical thinking thailand students" you will find opinions/assessments by educational experts that either were consultants or teachers in Thai education. Even Thai people agree with these assessments and opinions and recognize a serious problem.

I am not criticizing, but, simply observing and in an analytic way. My Japanese friend living in Bangkok also are of the opinions and thoughts and many things have been said about Japan society that might echo Thai criticisms however Japanese living in Thailand note the widespread uniform cognitive issues. Again, I believe a result of the educational system and not racial.

Certainly there are classes of people who would demonstrate those characteristics and they are EVENLY distributed throughout the world. Every society has them. The biggest complaint in the west currently is lazy people abusing the welfare systems.

Absolutely agree, however in my experience living in the N.E. USA and Latin America I have never seen such widespread lack of basic thinking, reason, logic abilities as I have observed in Thailand. Seems to be a relic from feudal times that just won't let go. I have dealt with many US welfare people however most of them I'd say have basic critical thinking ability to some degree. In America one place where I saw a similar lack of / decreased critical thinking was in the sate of Hawaii. Guess what, the public educational system there is a sham. There also exists abundant "live and party for today" mentality.

There is an increasing percentage of people in the west who are discouraged and have basically quit trying. There is no welfare in Thailand, it's work or starve! They exhibit the the above characteristics in the SAME RATIOS. These characteristics have everything to do with class, education and upbringing. Not everyone needs to go to fancy schools and contemplate the universe. The fact is that until recently in the west people who became doctors and lawyers did so through on the job training with skilled professionals. I would argue that all the fancy schools in the west are producing atomotrons who CANNOT think for themselves and innovation in the west is rare and isolated to a handful of individuals. I worked in manufacturing and engineering with a bunch of MBA's who didn't have the common sense and management skills of a knat.

Doctors and lawyers still do this "on the job training" but they gave it a fancy name.

Some of you who constantly complain about the Thai's shortcomings; Their xenophobia, lack of initiative, and lack of critical thinking skills are in fact demonstrating your own xenophobia, lack of intuitive and critical thinking skills by your failure to evaluate OBJECTIVE information. Perhaps it is because you only know Thai's with these characteristics. Obviously bar girls, motorbike taxi drivers and street people will fit this category, but consider that Thailand is a world renowned producer of high tech products and autos. Countries full of the kinds of people that some of you incessantly describe do not achieve world status.

I have Thai friends that say the very same things about the above red highlited but they have overcome the so called "saving face" issue or simply never accepted it.

I know people involved in some tech factories, some are Thai, some are not. One such tech factory owner (Thai that graduated as engineer in USA) reports a continual struggle/battle with employees. Cars are largely made by non Thai companies that brought the technology in and selectively trained employees. Another Thai that returned from America after many decades is disillusioned by the abundance of people that have tried to con or scam or cheat him.

As Mr Voranai of the Bangkok Post said

"Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings"

"It is no wonder then that we are not ready to open our industries to foreign competition. We just don't have the skills or knowledge to compete, even with the fancy degrees. Of course, there are many genuinely brilliant and honest minds in Thailand. But we have to compete as a whole, not by the handful"

My experience is that the Thai's I know are ambitious, intelligent and innovative. For example; The developer who built the housing development that I live in has a 6th grade education and started out in life as a laborer. He paid attention and became a foreman. He invested wisely and accumulated the capital to start building homes. He's now on his 3rd development and a highly successful investor. Another example; My wife's aunt only finished 4th grade, but has taught herself organic, sustainable farming and horticulture. I would put up against any expert when it comes to this area. She also teaches traditional Thai dance and is a highly respected leader in the community. Each and every Thai that I know, except for those who have chosen a lazy lifestyle (bar girls and taxi drivers) is motivated and is achieving their goals. MY wife's two brothers were high school dropouts, both have completed HS and one already has obtained a degree in computers. Her other brother is a driver for a Japanese businessman and goes to night school. Her sister started out as a clerk at an electronics factory and is constantly taking courses and being promoted. Even McDonald's and KFC employees are sharp and attentive compared to the US.

My experience also, but those you mention are the exceptions. Some KFC/McDonals cashiers may be sharp and attentive. 9/10 times at KFC I get Pepsi despite specifically stating "I don't want Pepsi. I want Sprite" Have had similar experiences at McDonalds. My Thai language studies began with their alphabet, not English tranliteration. I can read and write also although not 100% or as fast as a native. When I order at restaurants I generally don't speak English and Thai people tell me I speak clearly and understandingly.

I am an easy going person, generally relaxed, some traits I acquired from living in Latin America, where things were generally slower, but in Latin America I did not experience such a widespread, daily, recurrent display of lack of very very basic thinking ability.

"A society's competitive advantage will come not from how well its schools teach the multiplication and periodic tables, but from how well they stimulate imagination and creativity."

— Albert Einstein

"The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think."

-- Albert Einstein

"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"

- Albert Einstein

"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." --Albert Einstein

"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity."

So, when you make these degrading and insulting posts regarding the Thai's think about how it makes YOU look. Think about how you identify yourself as the very thing that your claiming the Thai's to be.

[robsamui]

We have been through this conversation many times and OBJECTIVE evidence disagrees with the claim that Thai's are less intelligent or "incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, innovation or compromise.

I do not think Thai's are less intelligent or incapable of critical thinking. Thai's that have spent time in other educational systems, or grew up in other countries certainly disproves any racial theories. I personally know some Thais that are glaringly capable however "glaringly" also means they stand out so much that you well need sunglasses to deal with the luminance. One such freshman university student I know fits this category. She complains allot in a similar way about lack of reason and logic in society. She condemns the popular nightly soap operas and is frustrated by many fellow students at a good university.The people you speak of in my experience are certainly the exceptions rather than the norm. Perhaps many expats that live in the entertainment oriented sub-culture almost exclusively deal with low end people as you say. their experiences can be very bitter as the lifestyle they envisioned is not what they thought it would be.

If you GOOGLE "critical thinking thailand students" you will find opinions/assessments by educational experts that either were consultants or teachers in Thai education. Even Thai people agree with these assessments and opinions and recognize a serious problem.

I am not criticizing, but, simply observing and in an analytic way. My Japanese friend living in Bangkok also are of the opinions and thoughts and many things have been said about Japan society that might echo Thai criticisms however Japanese living in Thailand note the widespread uniform cognitive issues. Again, I believe a result of the educational system and not racial.

Certainly there are classes of people who would demonstrate those characteristics and they are EVENLY distributed throughout the world. Every society has them. The biggest complaint in the west currently is lazy people abusing the welfare systems.

Absolutely agree, however in my experience living in the N.E. USA and Latin America I have never seen such widespread lack of basic thinking, reason, logic abilities as I have observed in Thailand. Seems to be a relic from feudal times that just won't let go. I have dealt with many US welfare people however most of them I'd say have basic critical thinking ability to some degree. In America one place where I saw a similar lack of / decreased critical thinking was in the sate of Hawaii. Guess what, the public educational system there is a sham. There also exists abundant "live and party for today" mentality.

There is an increasing percentage of people in the west who are discouraged and have basically quit trying. There is no welfare in Thailand, it's work or starve! They exhibit the the above characteristics in the SAME RATIOS. These characteristics have everything to do with class, education and upbringing. Not everyone needs to go to fancy schools and contemplate the universe. The fact is that until recently in the west people who became doctors and lawyers did so through on the job training with skilled professionals. I would argue that all the fancy schools in the west are producing atomotrons who CANNOT think for themselves and innovation in the west is rare and isolated to a handful of individuals. I worked in manufacturing and engineering with a bunch of MBA's who didn't have the common sense and management skills of a knat.

Doctors and lawyers still do this "on the job training" but they gave it a fancy name.

Some of you who constantly complain about the Thai's shortcomings; Their xenophobia, lack of initiative, and lack of critical thinking skills are in fact demonstrating your own xenophobia, lack of intuitive and critical thinking skills by your failure to evaluate OBJECTIVE information. Perhaps it is because you only know Thai's with these characteristics. Obviously bar girls, motorbike taxi drivers and street people will fit this category, but consider that Thailand is a world renowned producer of high tech products and autos. Countries full of the kinds of people that some of you incessantly describe do not achieve world status.

I have Thai friends that say the very same things about the above red highlited but they have overcome the so called "saving face" issue or simply never accepted it.

I know people involved in some tech factories, some are Thai, some are not. One such tech factory owner (Thai that graduated as engineer in USA) reports a continual struggle/battle with employees. Cars are largely made by non Thai companies that brought the technology in and selectively trained employees. Another Thai that returned from America after many decades is disillusioned by the abundance of people that have tried to con or scam or cheat him.

As Mr Voranai of the Bangkok Post said

"Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings"

"It is no wonder then that we are not ready to open our industries to foreign competition. We just don't have the skills or knowledge to compete, even with the fancy degrees. Of course, there are many genuinely brilliant and honest minds in Thailand. But we have to compete as a whole, not by the handful"

My experience is that the Thai's I know are ambitious, intelligent and innovative. For example; The developer who built the housing development that I live in has a 6th grade education and started out in life as a laborer. He paid attention and became a foreman. He invested wisely and accumulated the capital to start building homes. He's now on his 3rd development and a highly successful investor. Another example; My wife's aunt only finished 4th grade, but has taught herself organic, sustainable farming and horticulture. I would put up against any expert when it comes to this area. She also teaches traditional Thai dance and is a highly respected leader in the community. Each and every Thai that I know, except for those who have chosen a lazy lifestyle (bar girls and taxi drivers) is motivated and is achieving their goals. MY wife's two brothers were high school dropouts, both have completed HS and one already has obtained a degree in computers. Her other brother is a driver for a Japanese businessman and goes to night school. Her sister started out as a clerk at an electronics factory and is constantly taking courses and being promoted. Even McDonald's and KFC employees are sharp and attentive compared to the US.

My experience also, but those you mention are the exceptions. Some KFC/McDonals cashiers may be sharp and attentive. 9/10 times at KFC I get Pepsi despite specifically stating "I don't want Pepsi. I want Sprite" Have had similar experiences at McDonalds. My Thai language studies began with their alphabet, not English tranliteration. I can read and write also although not 100% or as fast as a native. When I order at restaurants I generally don't speak English and Thai people tell me I speak clearly and understandingly.

I am an easy going person, generally relaxed, some traits I acquired from living in Latin America, where things were generally slower, but in Latin America I did not experience such a widespread, daily, recurrent display of lack of very very basic thinking ability.

"A society's competitive advantage will come not from how well its schools teach the multiplication and periodic tables, but from how well they stimulate imagination and creativity."

— Albert Einstein

"The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think."

-- Albert Einstein

"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"

- Albert Einstein

"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." --Albert Einstein

"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity."

So, when you make these degrading and insulting posts regarding the Thai's think about how it makes YOU look. Think about how you identify yourself as the very thing that your claiming the Thai's to be.

Some thoughtful and perceptive observations from ATYCLB. Thank you.

R

[atyclb]

We have been through this conversation many times and OBJECTIVE evidence disagrees with the claim that Thai's are less intelligent or "incapable of showing initiative, resourcefulness, innovation or compromise.

I do not think Thai's are less intelligent or incapable of critical thinking. Thai's that have spent time in other educational systems, or grew up in other countries certainly disproves any racial theories. I personally know some Thais that are glaringly capable however "glaringly" also means they stand out so much that you well need sunglasses to deal with the luminance. One such freshman university student I know fits this category. She complains allot in a similar way about lack of reason and logic in society. She condemns the popular nightly soap operas and is frustrated by many fellow students at a good university.The people you speak of in my experience are certainly the exceptions rather than the norm. Perhaps many expats that live in the entertainment oriented sub-culture almost exclusively deal with low end people as you say. their experiences can be very bitter as the lifestyle they envisioned is not what they thought it would be.

If you GOOGLE "critical thinking thailand students" you will find opinions/assessments by educational experts that either were consultants or teachers in Thai education. Even Thai people agree with these assessments and opinions and recognize a serious problem.

I am not criticizing, but, simply observing and in an analytic way. My Japanese friend living in Bangkok also are of the opinions and thoughts and many things have been said about Japan society that might echo Thai criticisms however Japanese living in Thailand note the widespread uniform cognitive issues. Again, I believe a result of the educational system and not racial.

Certainly there are classes of people who would demonstrate those characteristics and they are EVENLY distributed throughout the world. Every society has them. The biggest complaint in the west currently is lazy people abusing the welfare systems.

Absolutely agree, however in my experience living in the N.E. USA and Latin America I have never seen such widespread lack of basic thinking, reason, logic abilities as I have observed in Thailand. Seems to be a relic from feudal times that just won't let go. I have dealt with many US welfare people however most of them I'd say have basic critical thinking ability to some degree. In America one place where I saw a similar lack of / decreased critical thinking was in the sate of Hawaii. Guess what, the public educational system there is a sham. There also exists abundant "live and party for today" mentality.

There is an increasing percentage of people in the west who are discouraged and have basically quit trying. There is no welfare in Thailand, it's work or starve! They exhibit the the above characteristics in the SAME RATIOS. These characteristics have everything to do with class, education and upbringing. Not everyone needs to go to fancy schools and contemplate the universe. The fact is that until recently in the west people who became doctors and lawyers did so through on the job training with skilled professionals. I would argue that all the fancy schools in the west are producing atomotrons who CANNOT think for themselves and innovation in the west is rare and isolated to a handful of individuals. I worked in manufacturing and engineering with a bunch of MBA's who didn't have the common sense and management skills of a knat.

Doctors and lawyers still do this "on the job training" but they gave it a fancy name.

Some of you who constantly complain about the Thai's shortcomings; Their xenophobia, lack of initiative, and lack of critical thinking skills are in fact demonstrating your own xenophobia, lack of intuitive and critical thinking skills by your failure to evaluate OBJECTIVE information. Perhaps it is because you only know Thai's with these characteristics. Obviously bar girls, motorbike taxi drivers and street people will fit this category, but consider that Thailand is a world renowned producer of high tech products and autos. Countries full of the kinds of people that some of you incessantly describe do not achieve world status.

I have Thai friends that say the very same things about the above red highlited but they have overcome the so called "saving face" issue or simply never accepted it.

I know people involved in some tech factories, some are Thai, some are not. One such tech factory owner (Thai that graduated as engineer in USA) reports a continual struggle/battle with employees. Cars are largely made by non Thai companies that brought the technology in and selectively trained employees. Another Thai that returned from America after many decades is disillusioned by the abundance of people that have tried to con or scam or cheat him.

As Mr Voranai of the Bangkok Post said

"Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings"

"It is no wonder then that we are not ready to open our industries to foreign competition. We just don't have the skills or knowledge to compete, even with the fancy degrees. Of course, there are many genuinely brilliant and honest minds in Thailand. But we have to compete as a whole, not by the handful"

My experience is that the Thai's I know are ambitious, intelligent and innovative. For example; The developer who built the housing development that I live in has a 6th grade education and started out in life as a laborer. He paid attention and became a foreman. He invested wisely and accumulated the capital to start building homes. He's now on his 3rd development and a highly successful investor. Another example; My wife's aunt only finished 4th grade, but has taught herself organic, sustainable farming and horticulture. I would put up against any expert when it comes to this area. She also teaches traditional Thai dance and is a highly respected leader in the community. Each and every Thai that I know, except for those who have chosen a lazy lifestyle (bar girls and taxi drivers) is motivated and is achieving their goals. MY wife's two brothers were high school dropouts, both have completed HS and one already has obtained a degree in computers. Her other brother is a driver for a Japanese businessman and goes to night school. Her sister started out as a clerk at an electronics factory and is constantly taking courses and being promoted. Even McDonald's and KFC employees are sharp and attentive compared to the US.

My experience also, but those you mention are the exceptions. Some KFC/McDonals cashiers may be sharp and attentive. 9/10 times at KFC I get Pepsi despite specifically stating "I don't want Pepsi. I want Sprite" Have had similar experiences at McDonalds. My Thai language studies began with their alphabet, not English tranliteration. I can read and write also although not 100% or as fast as a native. When I order at restaurants I generally don't speak English and Thai people tell me I speak clearly and understandingly.

I am an easy going person, generally relaxed, some traits I acquired from living in Latin America, where things were generally slower, but in Latin America I did not experience such a widespread, daily, recurrent display of lack of very very basic thinking ability.

"A society's competitive advantage will come not from how well its schools teach the multiplication and periodic tables, but from how well they stimulate imagination and creativity."

— Albert Einstein

"The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think."

-- Albert Einstein

"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"

- Albert Einstein

"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." --Albert Einstein

"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity."

So, when you make these degrading and insulting posts regarding the Thai's think about how it makes YOU look. Think about how you identify yourself as the very thing that your claiming the Thai's to be.

Some thoughtful and perceptive observations from ATYCLB. Thank you.

R

Thank you also.

[softgeorge]

I think the main problem with Thai workers is that from an early age at school they are taught not to ask why just do it. When it comes to problem solving in later life in their jobs most haven't got a clue because they've never had the encouragement to question. eg taken computers many times for repairs and it's always the same answer wipe it clean and re install.

very true. Monkey see, Monkey do type teaching

Edited June 14, 2011 by softgeorge

[trisailer]

"Thailand will face an oversupply crisis in the midlevel labour market if workers do not improve their skills to compete with their counterparts in Vietnam and the Philippines, a Bangkok seminar on vocational study was told yesterday.

Migration of labour within Asean countries will begin in the next four years and career training and selfdevelopment are needed now for Thai workers to be competitive in time, said Associate Professor Somphong Jitradab, a senior official with the Quality Learning Foundation.

Filipino workers are wanted in the service sector elsewhere because of their English skills, while the Vietnamese are hardworking and patient, he said.

Workers from both countries are expected to resume study in vocational fields to enhance their skills.

"By that time, they will possess greater ranges of skills and obtain greater job opportunities. And if Thailand is not ready, they will take a large portion of employment in the middlelevel labour market or the service sector."

I stand by my statement that Thailand is head and shoulders ahead of Vietnam and the Philippines in every single area that matters including education, R&D, Medical, industrial production, film making, art, everything. Thailand invests more in education (4.1%) as a percent of GDP than China (3.7%) or Singapore (3.0%). Vietnam and the Philippines are not even on the chart. I hear people claim that the Philippines have an advantage because they speak english, have you ever talked with one. It is difficult to understand even the ones who have degrees in English. A friend of mine's wife had a masters in education from the Philippines which was good only for a job as a nursery school/daycare teacher/babysitter. What is more likely is that Vietnam and the Philippines will come in to fill the service sector jobs that get vacated by the Thai's who will move up to the high tech jobs.

Japan isn't breaking any records for innovation either. Sure, they're good at taking other peoples ideas and improving them, but for all their investment in education what have they produced that was their own idea? No one can come close to Japans conformity to their culture. They're like a bunch of robots. One of my wifes HS friends how has a engineering degree and can speak and write Japanese just returned from there after 3 years and he says the same thing.

My wife attends Assumption University in Bangkok and I help her with her homework. The education there is exactly the same as the University I attended in the US. Every course is designed to developer critical thinking skills. I know two Thai's who graduated from there and moved to the US for graduate school where their BS was welcomed. When we were living in the US she worked for a Thai woman who had a string of very successful Thai restaurants (this woman came to the US when she was 13 and never went to a US school) I know several people who tried to start restaurants, they all had degrees and they all failed. This Thai woman has common sense and has figured out the formula for making her restaurants popular. Her food is very expensive, but it is always busy. The staff is 70% Thai personal and the only problems she has is with the farang employees who don't know how to do a days work and have to be told everything over and over again. She hates having to hire farang's because they have no work ethic and no common sense.

I worked in the American paper manufacturing industry as a engineer and later a company executive. I spent 70% of my time dealing with personnel problems. Every manager does, that is a fact. I went through dozens of engineers who graduated at the top of their class in chemical engineering programs at top universities who couldn't solve a real world problem if their life depended on it. I worked with bean counters with fancy MBA's who have zero clues about how to create and sustain a productive organization. I don't have an engineering degree, I have a BS in Environmental Science, but I was promoted faster than every one of my peers who did have engineering degrees because they lacked common sense. In fact, I've seen more common sense in my wife's village than I ever did in American Industry. It used to be that people started out on the shop floor and they were promoted on the basis of their natural abilities. Now everyone wants a fancy degree. We see the result in the failure of American industry.

Thailand had between 900,000 and 1,200,000 foreigners come for medical treatment last year. (between 270,000 and 410,000 went to Singapore. How many went to Vietnam? Philippines? It is projected that it will be a $100 billion dollar a year net for Thailand by 2012. Thailand exports count for 60% of it's GDP and has foreign investment of 330 billion baht. Somebody must think that Thailand is doing ok. Unemployment is low and growth is high. The Finance Minister of Thailand is one of the most respected in the world.

I will repeat my point that Thailand has nothing to fear about any other Asian country overtaking them. It is more likely that they will continue to overtake developed countries. This article, like many others is lame and feeds the misguided perception that farang have for Thailand.

Imagine for a moment that someone could wave a magic wand and make everyone in Thailand highly educated. What would you do with all these people? Thailand's education system is appropriate for the stage of development that they are at.

Thailand will continue to grow and develop at it's own pace. To compare Latin America with Thailand is just ridiculous. They are not anywhere near the industrial development of Thailand. How much foreign investment do they have? How many people got there for complex medical treatment? What are their exports?

Everyone says they have "Thai friends" who say unfounded negative things about Thailand, I have never met one myself. All the Thai's that I know across a broad spectrum are proud to be Thai and all believe that Thailand is dealing with it's issues and they have hope for the future. Let's hear from some Thai's here about what they think. I don't think that it is even possible for a Thai to speak ill of their country to a farang.

Thailand is not perfect, but who is? Name a developing country that even comes close.

[atyclb]

"Thailand will face an oversupply crisis in the midlevel labour market if workers do not improve their skills to compete with their counterparts in Vietnam and the Philippines, a Bangkok seminar on vocational study was told yesterday.

Migration of labour within Asean countries will begin in the next four years and career training and selfdevelopment are needed now for Thai workers to be competitive in time, said Associate Professor Somphong Jitradab, a senior official with the Quality Learning Foundation.

Filipino workers are wanted in the service sector elsewhere because of their English skills, while the Vietnamese are hardworking and patient, he said.

Workers from both countries are expected to resume study in vocational fields to enhance their skills.

"By that time, they will possess greater ranges of skills and obtain greater job opportunities. And if Thailand is not ready, they will take a large portion of employment in the middlelevel labour market or the service sector."

I stand by my statement that Thailand is head and shoulders ahead of Vietnam and the Philippines in every single area that matters including education, R&D, Medical, industrial production, film making, art, everything. Thailand invests more in education (4.1%) as a percent of GDP than China (3.7%) or Singapore (3.0%). Vietnam and the Philippines are not even on the chart. I hear people claim that the Philippines have an advantage because they speak english, have you ever talked with one. It is difficult to understand even the ones who have degrees in English. A friend of mine's wife had a masters in education from the Philippines which was good only for a job as a nursery school/daycare teacher/babysitter. What is more likely is that Vietnam and the Philippines will come in to fill the service sector jobs that get vacated by the Thai's who will move up to the high tech jobs.

Japan isn't breaking any records for innovation either. Sure, they're good at taking other peoples ideas and improving them, but for all their investment in education what have they produced that was their own idea? No one can come close to Japans conformity to their culture. They're like a bunch of robots. One of my wifes HS friends how has a engineering degree and can speak and write Japanese just returned from there after 3 years and he says the same thing.

My wife attends Assumption University in Bangkok and I help her with her homework. The education there is exactly the same as the University I attended in the US. Every course is designed to developer critical thinking skills. I know two Thai's who graduated from there and moved to the US for graduate school where their BS was welcomed. When we were living in the US she worked for a Thai woman who had a string of very successful Thai restaurants (this woman came to the US when she was 13 and never went to a US school) I know several people who tried to start restaurants, they all had degrees and they all failed. This Thai woman has common sense and has figured out the formula for making her restaurants popular. Her food is very expensive, but it is always busy. The staff is 70% Thai personal and the only problems she has is with the farang employees who don't know how to do a days work and have to be told everything over and over again. She hates having to hire farang's because they have no work ethic and no common sense.

I worked in the American paper manufacturing industry as a engineer and later a company executive. I spent 70% of my time dealing with personnel problems. Every manager does, that is a fact. I went through dozens of engineers who graduated at the top of their class in chemical engineering programs at top universities who couldn't solve a real world problem if their life depended on it. I worked with bean counters with fancy MBA's who have zero clues about how to create and sustain a productive organization. I don't have an engineering degree, I have a BS in Environmental Science, but I was promoted faster than every one of my peers who did have engineering degrees because they lacked common sense. In fact, I've seen more common sense in my wife's village than I ever did in American Industry. It used to be that people started out on the shop floor and they were promoted on the basis of their natural abilities. Now everyone wants a fancy degree. We see the result in the failure of American industry.

Thailand had between 900,000 and 1,200,000 foreigners come for medical treatment last year. (between 270,000 and 410,000 went to Singapore. How many went to Vietnam? Philippines? It is projected that it will be a $100 billion dollar a year net for Thailand by 2012. Thailand exports count for 60% of it's GDP and has foreign investment of 330 billion baht. Somebody must think that Thailand is doing ok. Unemployment is low and growth is high. The Finance Minister of Thailand is one of the most respected in the world.

I will repeat my point that Thailand has nothing to fear about any other Asian country overtaking them. It is more likely that they will continue to overtake developed countries. This article, like many others is lame and feeds the misguided perception that farang have for Thailand.

Imagine for a moment that someone could wave a magic wand and make everyone in Thailand highly educated. What would you do with all these people? Thailand's education system is appropriate for the stage of development that they are at.

Thailand will continue to grow and develop at it's own pace. To compare Latin America with Thailand is just ridiculous. They are not anywhere near the industrial development of Thailand. How much foreign investment do they have? How many people got there for complex medical treatment? What are their exports?

Everyone says they have "Thai friends" who say unfounded negative things about Thailand, I have never met one myself. All the Thai's that I know across a broad spectrum are proud to be Thai and all believe that Thailand is dealing with it's issues and they have hope for the future. Let's hear from some Thai's here about what they think. I don't think that it is even possible for a Thai to speak ill of their country to a farang.

Thailand is not perfect, but who is? Name a developing country that even comes close.

"To compare Latin America with Thailand is just ridiculous."

Downtown Buenos Aires looks and feels very much like Manhattan. Wide open, clean, unobstructed streets. Argentina along with someother Latin American countries have super modern, world class, high quality medical facilities. Brazil also, and brazil is home of Ivo Pitanguy, considered by many as one of the father of plastic surgery. Even Colombia has world class medical facilities and the world most experienced refractive surgeons. Latin America has Nobel prize winners also as well as world renowned doctors. Google Jose Ignacio Barraquer for one. Argentina also has world renowned eye surgeons.

I have spent time in South America, seen the things I am talking about, and your statement "To compare Latin America with Thailand is just ridiculous." gives me pause. Brazil has super industry, the powerhouse of south america. If you want links to medical facilities i refer to just ask.

south america has HUGE industries, factories, produce many motor vehicles and bio-fuel vehicles also.

Some examples;

Argentina GDP $307.16 Billion US dollars Population about 40 million

Brazil $1.59 Trillion US dollars 194 million people

Everyone says they have "Thai friends" who say unfounded negative things about Thailand, I have never met one myself. Enlightened "outside of the box" Thais have plenty of well founded things to say about their country. Voranai Vanijaka (Bangkpost) , has the integrity and courage to say it publicly. I have nothing against thailand or thai people nor do i have bitterness nor am i here for my social life. I actually like thailand, but I cannot pretend it is what is isn't. I am very surprised that you have never had a discussion with any thai person that would echo the writings of Voranai. I know there are many nice people in villages but they may not have the awareness to be able to perceive things as others do.

Yes, some professors at abac do indeed stress "critical thinking" In actuality I have been present at some of those lectures and indeed some teachers (thai's) repeat that phrase. If you wonder why they need to say it often and repeatedly is simply because it is not widely present in society nor even in all of their students, even if their families are wealthy.Abac is essentially a western university transplanted in thailand.

Edited June 15, 2011 by atyclb

[atyclb]

"I have seen Thai's do amazing things with simple hand tools and a Thai builder knows how to build the WHOLE house. A few weeks ago I had the trim painted on my house. A guy who was recomended by a neighbor shows up with one small ladder and a saw horse. He had to do some clever things with those items to get to all the places that needed painting. He even stood on my roof placing his feet in the holes he created by sliding up the roof tiles. I saw more cleverness and thinking outside the box from this guy than I've seen from most engineers I know."

Phenomenal, and Colombian narco traffickers found ways to build submarines more sophisticated than much of the thai navy technology.

[trisailer]

"I have seen Thai's do amazing things with simple hand tools and a Thai builder knows how to build the WHOLE house. A few weeks ago I had the trim painted on my house. A guy who was recomended by a neighbor shows up with one small ladder and a saw horse. He had to do some clever things with those items to get to all the places that needed painting. He even stood on my roof placing his feet in the holes he created by sliding up the roof tiles. I saw more cleverness and thinking outside the box from this guy than I've seen from most engineers I know."

Phenomenal, and Colombian narco traffickers found ways to build submarines more sophisticated than much of the thai navy technology.

Your absolutly correct. Which prooves my point that necessity is the mother of invention. Even the CIA when faced with a question about some secret US program will admit that they should ask the Chinese because they probably have all of the US plans on their computers.

[atyclb]

Anyone can cherry pick particular characteristics of Thai culture that are in opposition to western views, but the fact remains that Thailand enjoys significant growth that most western countries envy. The US will be lucky to break 1.5% growth in GDP this year and unemployment is 10% The US economy is worse than the great depression currently.

Thailand also has nearly 0% unemployment. Anyone who does have a four year degree is virtually guaranteed a job here. That cannot be said of many other countries.

Obviously there are bumps in the road as Thailand moves forward but for the time being they are an economic powerhouse who other countries in Asia will spend decades trying to catch up with.

Those are the facts and I welcome anyone to prove otherwise.

You might be correct in what you say, but that is not at issue in this topic.

The heavy growth of Thailand right now is because they are export heavy.

The issue is that Thai workers have little or no imagination, skills to work on an international high level, nor can they innovate and think outside the box.

The ones that can, usually leave the country.

I agree that Asian countries in general lack the creative/innovative abilities of the west. It's not just Thailand. Japan had a long history of copying ideas created in the west and perfecting them. Ironically W. Edwards Deming tried to sell the idea of quality circles to reduce variation in quality in the US after WW2 and was rejected. He then went to Japan and we all know the result of improving the focus on quality of Japanese products. Japan is still not a big innovator in spite of it's excellent schools and dedicated students. This is a Asian thing which will take a very long time to change.

In the mean time Thailand is still ahead of most other Asian countries in the production of quality items.

I would also agree that Thailand has not yet adopted the western work ethic, but they are also not suffering the effects of that work ethic like depression and sleep disorders and over eating that come from living a fear driven life.

Knowing what I know about work in the west and it's impact on the average person I'm not so sure they should want to. I don't believe that the current model of productivity in the west is desirable or sustainable

The issue is weather or not they are being overtaken by other Asian countries that all have the same goals of improving innovation. I would argue that they are way ahead of the Asian countries that they are competing with. They are also well aware of the need to improve their education systems to maintain that competitiveness.

The fact is that there are very few Steve Jobs in the world anywhere. For most of the near future perfecting their high tech production capabilities is the challenge. Most production these days is automated and tightly controlled by statistical models. There really isn't many people in the west who "think outside the box" in spite of what you hear.

Japan is very good at copying and improving and in some ways is also a "cogs of the wheel" society BUT there are huge differences when compared to thai society.

Japan work ethic is second to none.

Reliability, organization and efficiency of Japan people is way different from thai style (relative few exceptions acknowledged)

Japan was also an agricultural society but circa WW2 was manufacturing their own military aircraft, submarines, destroyers, etc etc

In more recent times, Japanese universities and companies do a great deal of research and hold many patents.

I cannot recall a single occasion when a Japanese person failed to show up (on time), or late, or not at all without having the courtesy, decency and plain common sense to notify me. In thailand poor punctuality is the norm among the great majority (exceptions duly noted) Make a plan with someone and often they simply do not show up, do not notify you, are late and don't notify you.Some thai's I know have been irate about this also, but they are the notable exceptions.

[trisailer]

Every country is different, has a different history and a different pattern of development. Along with that each has different challenges.

The article made the claim that Vietnam and Philippines were positioned to overtake Thailand. I disagree and I pointed out why.

There is no question that Japan is a powerhouse in manufacturing. They are a very organized society and I have no doubt that employees show up on time. They also have had little growth over the past decade because they don't innovate they make products better. They also live on a fault line and have a reactor burning itself into the earth. Personally I think they are going to have some major challenges ahead of them. Japan was rebuilt by the US after WW2 which put them on a completely different development curve. Prior to WW2 their products were considered to be crap. It's seems they have peaked, their looking at negative growth -.9% for this year although inflation is low, .3%

Argentina is also a great country, but not anything like Thailand in terms of it's development and history. It also has 9% inflation and is ranked worse than Thailand on TI's corruption index (105) Public education is free all the way through university in Argentina.

Brazil is also a great country. It is the worlds 8th largest economy and has a different history and development curve. Both Argentina and Brazil were developed in the western model. It too is ranked worse than Thailand on TI's corruption index (69)

Back to the article; Vietnam and Philippines have a long way to go to catch Thailand. Their respective TI corruption rankings are (116) and (134) Both Vietnam and Philippines have high growth, but also high inflation Vietnam is almost 20% Philippines is 5% Thailand is 4%

I think any comparison of countries economies involves some detailed analysis which goes far beyond what I am interested in doing with my day.

What bothers me is people looking for any reason to degrade and insult Thailand when in fact like any country they have there good and bad qualities which in the end biol down to completely subjective opinions. Folks who live here do so for a reason and that reason must be good enough to keep them here. I personally would not have the least interest in moving to any other country for now.

[atyclb]

Every country is different, has a different history and a different pattern of development. Along with that each has different challenges.

The article made the claim that Vietnam and Philippines were positioned to overtake Thailand. I disagree and I pointed out why.

There is no question that Japan is a powerhouse in manufacturing. They are a very organized society and I have no doubt that employees show up on time. They also have had little growth over the past decade because they don't innovate they make products better. They also live on a fault line and have a reactor burning itself into the earth. Personally I think they are going to have some major challenges ahead of them. Japan was rebuilt by the US after WW2 which put them on a completely different development curve. Prior to WW2 their products were considered to be crap. It's seems they have peaked, their looking at negative growth -.9% for this year although inflation is low, .3%

Argentina is also a great country, but not anything like Thailand in terms of it's development and history. It also has 9% inflation and is ranked worse than Thailand on TI's corruption index (105) Public education is free all the way through university in Argentina.

Brazil is also a great country. It is the worlds 8th largest economy and has a different history and development curve. Both Argentina and Brazil were developed in the western model. It too is ranked worse than Thailand on TI's corruption index (69)

Back to the article; Vietnam and Philippines have a long way to go to catch Thailand. Their respective TI corruption rankings are (116) and (134) Both Vietnam and Philippines have high growth, but also high inflation Vietnam is almost 20% Philippines is 5% Thailand is 4%

I think any comparison of countries economies involves some detailed analysis which goes far beyond what I am interested in doing with my day.

What bothers me is people looking for any reason to degrade and insult Thailand when in fact like any country they have there good and bad qualities which in the end biol down to completely subjective opinions. Folks who live here do so for a reason and that reason must be good enough to keep them here. I personally would not have the least interest in moving to any other country for now.

# Why is it ridiculous to compare Latin America with Thailand?

# In actuality Thailand is a member of the G20+ Developing Nations that includes Brazil and Argentina http://en.wikipedia....eloping_nations and numerous other links if you do simple research. Therefore why is it ridiculous to compare other G20+ nations to Thailand?

# And how in the world can you categorize Brazil and Argentina as not part of Latin America?

The above were my questions in response to your statements and it seems you prefer to skirt around rather than providing clear answers. Kind of like what some people do to avoid "losing face" Well you are in the right country. And suddenly of course you have better things to do with your day than continue this discussion and analysis despite you suggesting that others need to do the research.

[trisailer]

# Why is it ridiculous to compare Latin America with Thailand?

Because it has nothing to do with the topic.

Because Latin America was colonized by the west in the 1500's and thus developed from a western economic/cultural model. In addition they are different in almost every area that is worth objective comparison.

# And how in the world can you categorize Brazil and Argentina as not part of Latin America?

Because I was mistakingly thinking Central America. So you were right and I was wrong about a detail that had nothing to do with the topic for which you still have not made a point about.

I didn't skirt anything. I said that comparing Latin American countries to Thailand was apples and oranges. You gave a subjective example "from your experience" I can give you hundreds from my own experience. If you have some objective facts that compare Thailand to any other country feel free to present them. G20 for developing nations means nothing. The organization was formed to address trading concerns and membership fluctuates and is voluntary.

Yes I do have better things to do than compare opinions about Thailand. If you want to make a point, do your own research, find some objective information and make your point.

[trisailer]

You forgot one,

Because it has nothing to do with the topic

Here's an idea. Why don't you rattle on about Latin America, by yourself.

[atyclb]

You forgot one,

Because it has nothing to do with the topic

Here's an idea. Why don't you rattle on about Latin America, by yourself.

You're debating skills are akin to those of Yingluck