Help The Farang Or Thai?

[Guest DragonStar]

... There're several very important options misssing in this vote. How about 2000, 2500, 3000, 7000 Baht? ... If you can jump in and help Somchai to help Helmuth/Fritz/George to get rid of those 200 USD, already budgeted to be spend on this stroll, you'll be my hero!

[kayo]

One of the reasons this practise is objectionable, is that a mafia-like local structure is created and sustained by it. Street stalls in high-profit tourist spots don't come for free...

The other, more personal reason, is that I strongly dislike the feeling of paying more than I should. This applies also to friends and some extend other farangs, when their lack of knowledge and disorientation in a new environment is taken advantage of, sometimes in a very insolent manner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry mate! Can't agree...

Change the situation from Bangkok to London. A friend of mine was a buyer for a very large, low profit clothing chain called Primark. He bought a line of ladies winter coats that used to retail for 29.99 in his shops. His girlfriend went on a shopping spree to the West End and picked up the SAME garment, originating from the SAME warehouse for 199.99. He was absolutely gutted when he checked the stitching and label to confirm it. The difference was that as she browsed in the West End shop, a very posh shop assistant called her madame and made her coffee...

My question is this - before my mate told her the origin of the coat, did she think she had a bargain? The concept of worth is exactly that - what people are prepared to pay...

The last time any of us forked out 60 quid for a pair of Nike trainers, were we really stupid enough to think that they cost more than 2 quid to make? Of course not, but we still pay 60 quid don't we?

Street stalls in tourist areas don't come for free, but neither do boutiques in the west end...

Same same but different...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent paragram for the same principle.

Also very much agree with neeranam and daley´s previous posts on this thread (not quoted here)

The colour of the skin is not exclusively a factor... In fact, often it has nothing to do with it.

When out on Koh chang, we would, on a weekly (week-endly) basis, get groups of people from the capital come out for 36 hours of fine food, fine whisky, and beach and cardgames.

You think they paid the same as an israeli backpacker, or that single korean girl?

Nah, the capitals paid way more.

Same principle out here. The people from salvador, honduras, and the guatemalan capital, very often end up paying way more, and far more quickly, with far less debate (no debat, usually) and will keep coming back for more.

Their own people selling, their own people buying.

People from th village itself usually have a "locals" rate.

What problem?

[jezchesters]

Did your friends feel peed-off after discovering the dress is sold for 29.99 elsewhere?

Would your friend not have pointed this out to his partner, had he been present in the boutique?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course she was peed off about paying over the odds - when she found out how much she could have paid for it elsewhere; and yes, had her partner been in the shop he would have warned her...

However, had he been in the shop on his own, and saw some English person paying the over-inflated price, he would have kept his mouth shut. Its like a wholesale baker walking into a supermarket and telling people that bread doesn't cost that much to make...

My point is that she was shopping in a rich/tourist area, and consequently should expect to pay rich/tourist prices - don't forget, before he told her what she should have paid, she thought she had paid a fair price. Noone twisted her arm!

I think that this applies in this situation...

Just my point of view

[brubo1]

sorry, look at the next post

Edited November 20, 2005 by brubo1

[brubo1]

I can see why I am still getting ripped every now and then...... There is no consideration or fairness left in this world!

If a street vendor can sell a watch for 500 Baht at a profit, why should anyone have to pay 2000 baht? Greed is only good for the one person - and usually bad karma follows.

The world would be a much better place if there were fewer people without the majority view that is being shown here!

CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS

[kayo]

hey brubo,

I agree with you. my post does not state that, but I do agree with you.

Consideration, Fairness, and some more common decency would be values of priceless quality in our world.

Unfortunately, this is not real.

[jezchesters]

I can see why I am still getting ripped every now and then...... There is no consideration or fairness left in this world! 

If a street vendor can sell a watch for 500 Baht at a profit, why should anyone have to pay 2000 baht? Greed is only good for the one person - and usually bad karma follows.

The world would be a much better place if there were fewer people without the majority view that is being shown here!

CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what about the 58 quid profit made from a 60 quid pair of Nikes?

Does that go to the people that need it most? The people that work for a dollar a day in the third world sweatshops?

No - it goes to enrich shareholders and pay the fatcats in charge of the company's multi-million pound bonuses...

Your words: CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS

If Nike can sell trainers for 10 quid at a profit, why should anyone have to pay 60 quid? Greed is only good for the one person - and usually bad karma follows.

Your words...

[Glauka]

I can see why I am still getting ripped every now and then...... There is no consideration or fairness left in this world! 

If a street vendor can sell a watch for 500 Baht at a profit, why should anyone have to pay 2000 baht? Greed is only good for the one person - and usually bad karma follows.

The world would be a much better place if there were fewer people without the majority view that is being shown here!

CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you know what is going on in every vendor´s life?

Do you know what is going on in every´s buyer´s life?´....

Well I don´t that´s why I am not calling them greedy...maybe they are but i don´t know... there is always to sides of a coin...

And I think I am a considerate person when I do not mind to give my money ( even though i know they are overcharging me) to people who needed more than the Nike factory...and at the end of the day is just money...if we won´t get so angry when we lose some money...the world will be a better place to live...so don´t mention to me fairness and consideration...

Are you 100 % fair and considerate?...because if you are not...welcome to the real world...

Edited November 20, 2005 by Glauka

[jezchesters]

I can see why I am still getting ripped every now and then...... There is no consideration or fairness left in this world! 

If a street vendor can sell a watch for 500 Baht at a profit, why should anyone have to pay 2000 baht? Greed is only good for the one person - and usually bad karma follows.

The world would be a much better place if there were fewer people without the majority view that is being shown here!

CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you know what is going on in every vendor´s life?

Do you know what is going on in every´s buyer´s life?´....

Well I don´t that´s why I am not calling them greedy...maybe they are but i don´t know... there is always to sides of a coin...

And I think I am a considerate person when I do not mind to give my money ( even though i know they are overcharging me) to people who needed more than the Nike factory...and at the end of the day is just money...if we won´t get so angry when we lose so money...the world will be living in a better place...so don´t mention to me fairness and consideration...

Are you 100 % fair and considerate?...because if you are not...welcome to the real world...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My sentiments exactly!!!

[Glauka]

well after some more thoughs...

Who is the greedy?

The falang get mad because thai vendor´s are overcharging him/ her and he/she knows that this is Thailand and everything should be cheaper than back home...where they do not mind to pay any crazy price...ç

But who this vendors think they are...? I want to be treated as an equal...(thinks the falang...

Do you want to be fair and considerate brubo1?...then pay the price that you will pay in your home country...

Then we talk about consideration and fairness...

of course when money is on the table everybody gets a bit mad...

For the rest of you guys..."Diamonds are a girl best friend"...

Edited November 20, 2005 by Glauka

[Heng]

Someone else might have said the same in this lenghty thread (where I admittedly browsed quickly past several probably interesting comments)

I say:

Help the farangs and they might or might not say 'Thank You'. The Thai will certainly be your enemy for life.

Help the Thai and you'll have a friend for life. The farangs might or might not recognize any difference.

The Thai has family and friends and they talk and talk and talk.... Anybody, who want to live happily in Thailand, surrounded by Thais who like you.

Yeah, it's the local version of karma. Stay on the plus side of favors and niceness, you can pretty much accomplish anything here. Stay on the negative side, and you're almost certain of adding thousands of hours of things to whinge about to your life.

[zzap]

Yeah, it's the local version of karma.

That's a good one!

[daleyboy]

I can see why I am still getting ripped every now and then...... There is no consideration or fairness left in this world! 

If a street vendor can sell a watch for 500 Baht at a profit, why should anyone have to pay 2000 baht? Greed is only good for the one person - and usually bad karma follows.

The world would be a much better place if there were fewer people without the majority view that is being shown here!

CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS

Just out of interest Brubo what country do you come from?

Do you have health insurance? do you have a state pension? These street vendors arent selling these things for greed, they are selling because they have families to feed, and if they can sell at a higher price then that just means they have more money to spend on the neccesities in life like food. What do you think these people are doing with the extra 1000 baht they get out of the rich tourist? There not buying houses or flash cars, there buying food and clothes for their family.

Ok you talk about consideration, have you considered that these people live in squalid conditions with a hand to mouth existence?

You talk about fairness, do you think its fair that the majority of westeners enjoy state benefits, health insurance and pensions, then come over to Thailand and moan because they have to pay a bit more than the next person? Is this really fair?

If you think it is, you are living in some sort of dream world, have you ever visited the slums around Bkk? I have, i know how some of these people live, and believe me it isnt fair or considerate, of the Thai govt or the rich people in this wold that let things like this happen, not just in Thailand but the rest of the un-developed world as well.

[brubo1]

well, I seem to have struck a little bit of a cord here......

Glauko, I just lost some 90% of my capital resources to someone who did not show ANY consideration or fairness to anyone else and I didn't get mad....

Why should I pay my countries prices when I come to Thailand?????? What would be the point of buying an item in a foreign country when I pay the same as at home???? Why should I let myself be ripped off in Thailand - only because it is cheaper there? Also, when I pay the inflated prices in my country, they come with a replacement warranty and that would have to be worth something!

Chester made a very good point (about Nike) - but when a big company is ripping off the general public that is a little different from what I was talking about, that is about progress and the anonimity that goes with a big company. When you look a bit further however, like if the managing director or the whole board of a big company showed some CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS, the example you mentioned wouldn't happen!

I personally might not be 100% fair and considerate ALL the time, but 95% is a whole lot better than 5%!!!!

[brubo1]

to DaleyBoy - I have not visited the slums of BKK or Bombay for some 25 years. You are painting a very bleak picture of street vendors. If a person in BKK has graduated to be a street vendor they are not that bad off anymore (after all they had the capital to purchase their wares). It is more likely that they would use a big proportion of the proceeds of their sales to buy TV's and other luxury goods rather than to feed the family!

[Heng]

Actually there are street vendors from the piss poor 500 Baht a day variety to those grossing a few hundred thousand Baht a day. Most of the latter aren't actually on the street... but still in rather uncomfortable stalls in wholesale market/mall/shopping center areas.

[Neeranam]

My thoughts on this matter changed after my experience today.

Thai people help each other and stick up for each other when abroad, and in their own country, when dealing with the farang - so should we.

On my way to work this morning, a pick-up truck came overtaking a car coming tthe other way from I. He was one of those crazy ficking cants flashing his lights expecting everyone to get out his way. Well I didn't manage to and we had a head-on collision.

My car was crumpled and I was very lucky to escape with broken bones in my foot, a minor bang on the head and a bruised leg.

As I crawled out of the debris, ready to smack the guy in the puss, I realised I couldn't walk He was alright and tried to negotiate with me. "Can you admit it was your fault?", he had the nerve to ask. I asked a few of the bystanders if the witnessed the accident. Restraining myself, I said just wait for the police. He was moaning about having to pay the 400 baht fine!

When the police man came in his pyjamas, he started chatting with the guy in private. I smelled a rat so butted in. They said it would be better for all round to share the blame, even though both cars were on my side of the road.

I refused as they were getting pissed off as this farang could speak their language - changing to Lao language, that they both, of course knew.

Knowing that I was fighting a losing battle, I punched a few numbers into my mobile(he was lucky it wasn't my fist in his face). 30 minutes later one of my "trump cards" arrived. It was all wais and the usual stuff, and the dick-head admitted it was his fault.

If this "puu yai" hadn't come, I'm sure that I would probably have been forced to pay for everything.

As I sit here with my leg in plaster, not able to work and earn money for 6 weeks, do I give a fick about this guy's 400 baht fine?

I'll probably chill out a bit tomorrow but right now I feel that I would always stick with my fellow countryman, and maybe my fellow farang.

The guy's insurance guy was visibly pissed off as this farang managed to get what he deserved - my car fixed, hospital bill paid and 6 weeks compensation for loss of work, and a nice holiday for 6 weeks

I was lucky - this typical pick-up driver could have killed me.

Those vendors on Sukhumvit road are raking in about an average of 100-200,000+ a month.

[Glauka]

I am sorry to hear your story...but for me people is just people...good people,bad people, happy people, sad people...

[Glauka]

I can see why I am still getting ripped every now and then...... There is no consideration or fairness left in this world! 

If a street vendor can sell a watch for 500 Baht at a profit, why should anyone have to pay 2000 baht? Greed is only good for the one person - and usually bad karma follows.

The world would be a much better place if there were fewer people without the majority view that is being shown here!

CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hey brubo,

I agree with you. my post does not state that, but I do agree with you.

Consideration, Fairness, and some more common decency would be values of priceless quality in our world.

Unfortunately, this is not real.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Honesty and understanding is what I call priceless values.

Honesty start by knowing yourself interior, Knowing that sometimes you lie, and sometimes you tell the truth, sometimes you are fair and some other times you are unfair, sometimes you are cynical, sometimes you are not...

Once you are honest to yourself, you can start to understand why you lied, why you were fair or unfair...

then you can start to forgive yourself and try to improve those faults that you do not like about yourself. Then is very easy to be honest and understanding with the rest of the world... and forgive them. I don´t mean that I tolerate and like everything but I can understand most of the things.

Consideration is also a priceless quality but fairness...very subjective from my point of view.

In this case I consider myself a fair person. I live in Europe I know how the people live, their salaries, what they spend their money on...

I have been in some other countries like morocco, egipt, thailand...I saw how this people live, what they spend their money on, what are the salaries...And from this knowledge( that is my own knowledge and experience) I take the vendor´s side...so I considered myself fair...

Some other situation I may have different opinion...

And I have always believe if you are always fair, considerate, honest, sincere...them call me liar, selfish...anything...but if you are not always those things try to understand me.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Glauka

[Glauka]

Neeraman I have forgotten to say ...hope you get better soon...

[Neeranam]

And I have always believe if you are always fair, considerate, honest, sincere...them call me liar, selfish...anything...but if you are not always those things try to understand me. ermm.gif

Sorry man but I don't understand you on that one - sounds good though .

Reminds me of some very wise words by a great man :-

O, Divine Master,

grant that I may not so much seek

to be consoled as to console;

to be understood as to understand;

to be loved as to love;

for it is in giving that we receive;

it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;

and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

[Glauka]

sorry my english is terrible in this situations...

What i meant was...

I have always believe that if you think that you are always sincere, fair, considerate honest...maybe you can call me liar...unfair...dishonest...

However if you are not always sincere, fair, honest...don´t call me anything and try to understand me...

I hope this is better if not I will need the help of "Professor Kayo"

[Neeranam]

I hear you now man!

[Glauka]

well, I seem to have struck a little bit of a cord here......

Glauko, I just lost some 90% of my capital resources to someone who did not show ANY consideration or fairness to anyone else and I didn't get mad....

Why should I pay my countries prices when I come to Thailand?????? What would be the point of buying an item in a foreign country when I pay the same as at home???? Why should I let myself be ripped off in Thailand  - only because it is cheaper there? Also, when I pay the inflated prices in my country, they come with a replacement warranty and that would have to be worth something!

Chester made a very good point (about Nike)  - but when a big company is ripping off the general public that is a little different from what I was talking about, that is about progress and the anonimity that goes with a big company. When you look a bit further however, like if the managing director or the whole board of a big company showed some CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS, the example you mentioned wouldn't happen!

I personally might not be 100% fair and considerate ALL the time, but 95% is a whole lot better than 5%!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because you are talking about fairness and consideration...

Is your choice to let yourself ripped off...you don´t like walk away...

THink why thailand is cheaper and why you can go over there on holidays and most of the thai people cannot come for holidays to your home country...

Ok you are happy with your 95%...good for you...

I am happy with my 5% and my understanding...

BTW...I have also lost some big amount of money...trying to help someone who I though was my friend...

she was not my friend after all...I lost money ok...

but this how things are...I don´t know why she did that to me...maybe her past experiences made her to act like that...

I would have like a bit of consideration and honesty...and friendship...ok did not happen...just move on...

and still in this example I am on the vendor´s side and reply "I don´t know" till some more information about both parts is known by me...and then make me change my opinion...

At this point of my life this is how I feel...

Edited November 21, 2005 by Glauka

[Glauka]

I am a girl...

What is wrong with my avatar...

please if you are confused look at my profile picture...

[The_Other_Mac]

Actually there are street vendors from the piss poor 500 Baht a day variety to those grossing a few hundred thousand Baht a day.    Most of the latter aren't actually on the street... but still in rather uncomfortable stalls in wholesale market/mall/shopping center areas. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Every now and again, I learn one of those "but everyone knows that" facts, and realise how little I understand Thailand... Now to me it's obvious that JJ stalls are a nice little earner ("everyone knows that"), but how about food vendors? The other day I smilingly told the gf about the food vendor who asked for my phone number "in case she needed computer lessons". GF pointed out that a typical suburban khao pat vendor with, say, 3-4 tables and a half-decent permanent patch, is probably making 2,000-3,000 per day. AFTER expenses.

Not saying they don't deserve it, they started their own business and they work bloody hard.

[Joey Boy]

I watched two chavs fresh off the plane pay 2'000 baht each for some 100 baht flip flops and I never said a word, they thought the 3'500 the guy was wanting for swimming shorts was too much tho, so they only took the flip flops

[sriracha john]

And what about the 58 quid profit made from a 60 quid pair of Nikes?

Does that go to the people that need it most? The people that work for a dollar a day in the third world sweatshops?

No - it goes to enrich shareholders and pay the fatcats in charge of the company's multi-million pound bonuses...

Your words: CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS

If Nike can sell trainers for 10 quid at a profit, why should anyone have to pay 60 quid? Greed is only good for the one person - and usually bad karma follows.

Your words...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bad Karma almost caught up with him:

Nike CEO, other execs manage to land safely

Plane touches down unscathed after 6 hours

By Brad Cain, Associated Press

HILLSBORO, Ore. — Nike CEO William Perez and other company executives went through a six-hour drama in the skies over Oregon on Monday as a wheel on their jet got stuck in a partially extended position, but the plane landed safely after aerial maneuvers meant to shake the wheel into landing position.

[jezchesters]

well, I seem to have struck a little bit of a cord here......

Glauko, I just lost some 90% of my capital resources to someone who did not show ANY consideration or fairness to anyone else and I didn't get mad....

Why should I pay my countries prices when I come to Thailand?????? What would be the point of buying an item in a foreign country when I pay the same as at home???? Why should I let myself be ripped off in Thailand  - only because it is cheaper there? Also, when I pay the inflated prices in my country, they come with a replacement warranty and that would have to be worth something!

Chester made a very good point (about Nike)  - but when a big company is ripping off the general public that is a little different from what I was talking about, that is about progress and the anonimity that goes with a big company. When you look a bit further however, like if the managing director or the whole board of a big company showed some CONSIDERATION & FAIRNESS, the example you mentioned wouldn't happen!

I personally might not be 100% fair and considerate ALL the time, but 95% is a whole lot better than 5%!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brubo! I get what you're saying - but look at the Original Post...

You said "Why should I pay my countries prices when I come to Thailand??????"

We're talking about someone buying a watch from a steet vendor. What kind of watch? A rolex? A Cartier? A FAKE?

How much does a fake watch cost in your country?

If we follow your line of thinking, the guy shouldn't be trying to buy it in the first place. If we follow your line of thinking, if the guy should be in an official Rolex shop paying 2000 pounds for it...

But it's not like that is it? The guy wants to walk around with a Rolex on his wrist, doen't want to pay full price for it, so he pays a street vendor 1500 Baht for it - he thinks that's a fair price to pay - so let them get on with it!

AND - I don't think that anyone in their right mind can equate what Nike is doing with 'progress'...

Edited November 22, 2005 by jezchesters

[jezchesters]

The other point I think is being missed is this:

Do you think that the person physically selling the merchandise actually owns the stall? Do you think that he pockets the cash and goes home smiling and rubbing his hands? Of course not!

His boss is going to expect a certain return on the stock sold. The reason why we get things cheaper as Thai speakers is only because the guy fresh off the plane will be paying more...

Thai price, Thai-speaking Farang Price, English-speaking Farang price, Farang straight-off-the-plane price... All different, but all average out to a working profit margin for the guy that OWNS the stall - the guy that WORKS on the stall's instructions are simple: get the best price you can for any given item...

Capitalist Economics that make the world work